Is it me?

[centered]

I am so confused right now. I don't know if I even am looking for advice. But I'd still like to hear from others if my feelings are just out of whack in this situation.

 

Okay, here's the deal. Been dating this really great guy, call him Bob, for about 7 months. He's 47, I'm almost 42. So we're grown ups (or so you'd think). The chemistry is good, and the feelings are deep. All good, right?

 

Right before dating me, he was dating a woman older than him, call her Wendy, who he says he has almost nothing in common with, but the chemistry was really good. So good, apparently, that they professed their love to each other early in the relationship, and were making extravagent plans and dates 7 months into the future. They dated for about 5 months, and he broke it off when he realized it was getting serious and he couldn't see a real future with this woman who had such different values and interests.

 

Before her, he had a fling with someone who wanted to explore kinky sex-play, and he had some interest in this. That lasted a few months, and never had a deep emotional bond for either of them.

 

And before that, he was married for 17 years to someone who ultimately decided to leave him to explore her kinky side, and she wound up moving in with one of his best buddies.

 

Despite the soap opera and tawdry material, everyone involved has been fairly sympatico and copacetic with the way things are *now*. But here's the thing: Bob feels terrible about breaking up with Wendy -- this was the first time he was ever the one initiating the break up -- and he continues to keep the planned dates with Wendy made so many months ago. He says he doesn't want to lose his friendship with her.

 

Now, believe it or not, I'd be okay with him staying friends with Wendy under the right circumstances. For example, I'm friends with his ex wife because she and I both wanted to meet each other right from the get go and lay everything out and let each other know how we felt about the guys in our lives. That worked well, and there was never any friction or jealousy because of her willingness to include me right from the beginning. I've also met Bob's kinky playmate, and she's nice enough, and they practiced safe sex, and she has moved on and wishes us well. Fine. But Wendy does not want to meet me. In fact, she has given me the silent treatment when I asked to share a cup of coffee with her and get to know Bob's lady friend. She makes plans for her and Bob to do things, without inviting or checking with me, and has openly admitted to Bob that she is still in love with him and is staying single for now.

 

I have tried to explain to Bob why her behavior is either immature or suspect (take your pick), and how his acceptance of these "dates" with her is terribly disrespectful to me. If he wants to do things with her, then he can also invite me. But since Wendy is uncomfortable with having me around, my invitation was apparently lost in the mail....

 

Granted, there have only been a few of these dates in the last 7 months, and not much free time for Bob to really see anyone without me around. We spend part of almost every day sharing some activity, and he and I both seem to be happy with that. I never demand any of his time, I don't push him to do more things with me, and I've told him I'm letting him set the pace of this relationship since he's still feeling his way a bit after a long marriage.

 

I almost left him when we had been dating for 3 months. He had told me he wasn't available on a Friday evening because of a play he had planned to see. He didn't elaborate, but he sort of implied he was taking his 13 year old daughter to see the play along with some friends. At 1 am that night, he calls to tell me how nice the play was. Uh, okay. It's kind of late for sharing. Then he hems and haws and finally tells me he went to the play with Wendy and no one else. Imagine about 60 minutes of silence.... It was maybe 5 seconds, but it felt long. He quickly added that this had been planned before he met me, and he had talked to Wendy after the play about me being in his life now. So apparently he had never mentioned me when they supposedly broke up 3 months ago and I entered the picture. More silence. And some tears. And he felt awful and admitted he'd really bungled things. I agreed. We finally moved past that event, but there were others. His strategy was to tell me about an upcoming "date" with Wendy a month or two in advance. The next big one was to see Cirque du Soleil with her and take his daughter and hers. Well, he decided to try to make it right this time by asking if I'd like to bring my daughter, too. Sure, I thought -- this is more reasonable. I can meet more of his friends, have a nice evening at Cirque, and my daughter will enjoy this, too. But Bob was still trying to make everyone happy, and he got extra tickets for a different day, her birthday. His plan was to take Wendy on her birthday, and me on the original day. Well, when Wendy found out about the change in plans and times, and that this wasn't just "her" special event with Bob anymore, she cancelled the date for Cirque. True to form. But Wendy had one more special date lined up that I found out about just a month ago. She bought expensive tickets to a fancy concert at the Hollywood Bowl in Southern California. She and Bob were to fly down from San Francisco, spend a romantic weekend in L.A., see the concert, have dinner, then come home. These plans were made, according to Bob, more than 7 months ago, and he had promised to go with her.

 

The concert was this weekend. The plans changed at the last minute, because Bob couldn't find a sitter for his daughter. So he and Wendy agreed to take their daughters along and make a "family" event of it. But the concert would still be just for Bob and Wendy, while the girls stayed in the hotel room.

 

Bob just doesn't understand why I'm not okay with any of this. Wendy refuses to meet me, refuses to include me, won't even respond to a friendly e-mail, admits she is in love with Bob and isn't dating anyone else. And Bob insists she's just his "friend" and he wants to maintain this friendship because she's important to him. And Bob has said I must have low self-esteem or something to feel threatened by these situations.

 

But I've decided that anything I can't be invited to along with Wendy is probably not a wholesome activity -- or at least not the most pure motives on Wendy's part. I trust Bob -- it's been very hard getting to this level of trust with all the set backs along the way. But he works hard to show me he really does care about me. And he has very little unaccounted for time, so I don't believe in my heart he's cheating on me. But I *do* think Wendy would cheat, given the opportunity, and I think she's doing everything she can to manipulate the sitation in hopes of finding a way back into "girlfriend" status.

 

So is it just me? Am I way off base here? Or am I being amazingly patient and understanding with this whole situation. All I'm asking for is to meet this woman, and to be invited along on any activities. That's all. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Anyone think I'm out of line with these requests?

 

Thanks for listenening.

[d'Arthez]

No, it is not you. It is you boyfriend.

 

Make him promise to attend the marriage of the little Spears, and he will definitely show up. Even if it were to happen on Samoa, in 2036.

But seriously, it is a severe issue. Given the nature of the promises that were made, it is completely understanding why you have a hard time dealing with the situation - and it is not your fault.

The only thing that you can try, is to make him promise, never to do something like that with Wendy again, if you cannot be asked to be included. For whatever that is. Whether it is going for a cup of coffee, or a concert.

 

He seems to lack the understanding that it is okay for a promise to be broken, if the premises (Wendy and him dating, or being a couple) do not longer apply. What the causes of that are, is hard to determine.

And that is something we should not make too much assumptions on, right now. But given the fact that you have been involved with him for 7 months you may have some ideas about the causes.

 

Furthermore, it is disrespectful on his part, to accept the whole manipulative ordeal from Wendy. Probably he is unaware of the manipulative nature of things, as he may be thinking that the original motives still apply on Wendy's part. That is clearly untrue.

[centered]

He seems to lack the understanding that it is okay for a promise to be broken, if the premises (Wendy and him dating, or being a couple) do not longer apply. What the causes of that are, is hard to determine.

And that is something we should not make too much assumptions on, right now. But given the fact that you have been involved with him for 7 months you may have some ideas about the causes.

I think he's just very inexperienced in breaking up with someone. He's a very honorable person -- his word means a lot to him, and he sticks by his friends. These are admirable qualities. But he doesn't understand that protracted breakups only hinder the chance that a real no-strings friendship can develop between a man and a woman. (He spent 12 hours breaking up with her the first time, then several more hours 3 months later telling her about me).

 

Furthermore' date=' it is disrespectful on his part, to accept the whole manipulative ordeal from Wendy. Probably he is unaware of the manipulative nature of things, as he may be thinking that the original motives still apply on Wendy's part. That is clearly untrue.[/quote']

It *is* disrespectful. And I finally got to the core of my feelings this weekend and was feeling righteous anger over the whole thing. I deserve better treatment. I've been through so much cr*p in my life from other people, and I just don't want any more shabby treatment. And what is so perplexing to me is Bob treats me really great 95% of the time. But this 5% with Wendy is just so bizarre. I have to agree with you -- I think he is genuinely unaware of her manipulations. It is so obvious to everyone I talk to, but he thinks she's a saint. Not having met her for more than a few minutes at a time, I really can't say if her intentions are pure. But actions *do* speak awfully loud in the absence of her words to me. I'm angry at her, at Bob, but especially at me for putting up with this for so long. I wrote Bob a letter that he'll read tonight that basically says what I've been saying for months -- if I can't be invited along to the Bob and Wendy show, then things aren't as innocent as Bob would like me to think. And this will be a deal breaker for my relationship. Much as I hate to admit that to myself -- because I think he and I have a great thing going here; but I cannot, will not, allow my self-esteem to take any more hits like this. It's messing with my sleep, my focus at work, and my overall happiness.

 

Thanks, d'Arthez -- I appreciate the feedback. If anyone thinks Wendy is innocent, Bob is handling things right, and I'm just being difficult, I'd love to hear about it. I can certainly admit it when I'm wrong, but I just don't see where I am in this. I'd like to be, though....

[chokra]

am I being amazingly patient and understanding with this whole situation. All I'm asking for is to meet this woman, and to be invited along on any activities. That's all. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Anyone think I'm out of line with these requests?

 

I'll be frank, even if it sounds hurtful.

When Bob agrees to go along on those "planned dates" he is merely being innovative about adultery. Men down the ages have blamed everything from alcohol to the 7-year itch; Bob is just being a little more clever about handling the guilt.

 

Bob needs to grow up. And fast.

 

A man who has a wife/lover/girlfriend like you , would so immerse himself in to building a life for him and you, he would just not find the time or energy for such boyish self-indulgence.

 

You are being very patient and understanding, and your gracious conduct should normally suffice to hold Bob's resolve steadfast even if all the world's Wendys throw themselves at him. But hey, this is not some reality tv show that your boyfriend is participating in (for the million dollar prize) in which he is going to spend a night with a baywatch beauty in the same room, while you are expected to keep your faith that he will not yield to temptation. And when finally he comes through unscathed, he takes you on that cruise you have always wanted but he could never afford.....

There is no such reason. There is NO REASON for him to be keeping these "planned dates". They are a disrespect to your relationship with Bob.

 

I hope you find the strength and the wisdom to do the right thing. I hope your world is beautiful always. Here's a warm *hugggg* for you Ms.Awesome!

[centered]

I'll be frank, even if it sounds hurtful.

When Bob agrees to go along on those "planned dates" he is merely being innovative about adultery. Men down the ages have blamed everything from alcohol to the 7-year itch; Bob is just being a little more clever about handling the guilt.

He's not. I feel it in my gut -- he's not fooling around. He's just got this misguided boyscout streak in him. But this time, it's not an endearing trait.

 

There is no such reason. There is NO REASON for him to be keeping these "planned dates". They are a disrespect to your relationship with Bob.

No valid reason that I can think of, anyway!

 

I hope you find the strength and the wisdom to do the right thing. I hope your world is beautiful always. Here's a warm *hugggg* for you Ms.Awesome!

Aww, thanks.

[chokra]

He's a very honorable person -- his word means a lot to him

Honorable is as honorable does. I can understand Wendy wanting you out of their dates. But I can't understand why Bob will not insist that you be included too.

 

 

 

He spent 12 hours breaking up with her the first time, then several more hours 3 months later telling her about me.

Translation : Bob is a sensitive man.

Good. Isn't that all the more reason why he should be aware of how you must feel.

[centered]

Honorable is as honorable does. I can understand Wendy wanting you out of their dates. But I can't understand why Bob will not insist that you be included too.

Yes, me, too. I put it in writing this time. I've learned guys do better with explicit instructions in black and white. I'll see him tonight and make sure he reads the note and understands that if this happens again, he's free to date anyone he likes -- just not me.

 

Translation : Bob is a sensitive man.

Good. Isn't that all the more reason why he should be aware of how you must feel.

He is aware of how I feel, and he seems to feel terrible about causing me pain. But at the same time he says he feels like I'm asking him to drop one of his friends. I'm not, of course. I'm only asking to be invited along if he intends on seeing her. Bridging this disconnect should NOT be rocket science, despite the male/female language barriers. This much should be obvious. Thanks, Chokra, you're helping me really hone the few words I'll share with him tonight about this matter.

[chokra]

I feel it in my gut -- he's not fooling around. He's just got this misguided boyscout streak in him.

 

I hope I am wrong. I hope that in his attempt to be genuinely sympathetic to his ex-girlfriend he is over-stepping and not realizing it. But a man would have to be really daft to not realize such a thing.

 

It is one thing to be willing to take her phone calls and talk to her for hours if she were going th' a rough patch. Even a walk along the beach to discuss ways to resolve some personal problem that she can't cope with alone, is understandable. But to be actively going out for plays and concerts with her for no other reason except to have a good time, while you wait for him at home, is not what Beden Powell would have approved of.

 

I presume, Bob does know that Wendy absolutely refuses to interact with you. Has Bob explicitly asked her why she is doing that? What did she say?

[centered]

I hope I am wrong. I hope that in his attempt to be genuinely sympathetic to his ex-girlfriend he is over-stepping and not realizing it. But a man would have to be really daft to not realize such a thing.

Boyscout. Really. He comes from very solid moral stock, parents still happily married, etc. So maybe he's a bit daft.

 

It is one thing to be willing to take her phone calls and talk to her for hours if she were going th' a rough patch.

He does that, too. Not *hours* (anymore), but long phone calls. She's a single mom, and I think she had hoped Bob would be a father to her daughter. Bob has told me her daughter had certainly had this wish.

But to be actively going out for plays and concerts with her for no other reason except to have a good time, while you wait for him at home, is not what Beden Powell would have approved of.

Um, yeah.... Not fun....

I presume, Bob does know that Wendy absolutely refuses to interact with you. Has Bob explicitly asked her why she is doing that? What did she say?

He knows. She says she doesn't want to talk about it.

[Razorback05]

Hello, centered and everyone else participing in this discussion.

 

As a sensitive male (ok..that's "momma's boy") I've always enjoyed closer bonds to females than to other males. I've been in the same type of situation in which I hurt a female that I really cared about, but didn't care to have a relationsip with. I also placated her and played a general-purpose role in her emotional well-being after I had ended things with her...

 

...until...

 

My girlfriend dropped the "her or me" ultimatum in my lap. My perception of the ultimatum was that it was fair and expected. It was the "push" to do what I really knew in my heart was right, but didn't really want to face. I had to close the chapter with my ex.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel you are being very reasonable and patient.

 

You need to be #1. Period. Your man will respect you for laying down the law to him. Trust me.

[centered]

My girlfriend dropped the "her or me" ultimatum in my lap. My perception of the ultimatum was that it was fair and expected. It was the "push" to do what I really knew in my heart was right, but didn't really want to face. I had to close the chapter with my ex.

 

...

 

You need to be #1. Period. Your man will respect you for laying down the law to him. Trust me.

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Lots to think about. I'm not used to "laying down the law" with anyone other than my daughter -- and she's almost too old for it anymore. But I know what you mean. If he's really and truly "friends" with her, I don't feel I have the right to dictate who he can be friends with. But by the same token, he has told me that pretty much all they had was really great chemistry, and I know for a fact that great chemistry doesn't just disappear overnight. A couple of my ex's can still make me weak in the knees if I spend too much time around them -- despite me knowing they aren't good relationship material. So, yeah, I think I either have to be included, or she needs to get a boyfriend of her own and leave us alone. But Bob needs to be firm -- especially since he's led her on for 7 months!

[Gottabestrong]

But at the same time he says he feels like I'm asking him to drop one of his friends.

 

Excuse me. They DATED for 5! months. They were never 'friends' and they also did not have a long-term serious relationship. Plus he knows that she wants him back.

 

I think the only decent thing for him to do would be to tell her that their relationship is definitely over, he is with somebody else who he really cares about, and he wishes her all the best.

 

So you are not way off base here, but incredibly patient and trusting.

 

In relation to Razorback's post, my dad told me that the woman he dated before my mom still wanted him to hang around even after he dumped her to start dating my mother.

 

After a few months my mother told him to either walk away from his ex or her. He picked my mother. But he told me that if she had not given him the ultimatum he would happily have continued to spend time with his ex and feel the ego massage you get from having someone try to make you fall in love with them again.

 

I am not saying you should give Bob an ultimatum, but I think that he wont stop seeing her unless he gets a really good reason to do just that.

[centered]

In relation to Razorback's post, my dad told me that the woman he dated before my mom still wanted him to hang around even after he dumped her to start dating my mother.

 

After a few months my mother told him to either walk away from his ex or her. He picked my mother. But he told me that if she had not given him the ultimatum he would happily have continued to spend time with his ex and feel the ego massage you get from having someone try to make you fall in love with them again.

That's really interesting. I'm sure it's an ego boost to have your own little harem. I've teased him about that before -- he has lots of female friends, but I like all the others and don't feel threatened by them. Yeah, I think you're on to something there. Still, I don't want to come off as the bad guy in this; I was hoping he'd figure it out for himself and do the right thing, but that clearly isn't happening. Thanks for sharing, GTBS

[chokra]

I've learned guys do better with explicit instructions in black and white.

 

 

 

he feels like I'm asking him to drop one of his friends. I'm not, of course. I'm only asking to be invited along if he intends on seeing her. Bridging this disconnect should NOT be rocket science, despite the male/female language barriers.

 

It should not be rocket-science. Au contraire, understanding why Bob does not see that inviting you along is the true-n-right thing to do, is rocket science. I agree with Razorback, confronting Bob with the ultimatum is the way to go. Do it lovingly yet firmly.

[centered]

I spent nearly 3 hours on the phone with Bob tonight. (Our plans to get together tonight fell through since his daughter wanted to stay home with home tonight.) We had a lot of good conversation. He still doesn't understand my position at all, and is a little hurt and angry with this "ultimatum" (his word) that I need to be invited along to activities with an ex-lover who is still in love with him. (Yeah, duh. But he still doesn't get "why.") What finally did make sense to him were the following points he admitted were true:

 

1) If it hadn't been for the sexual/romatic feelings, he would never have considered this woman "friend" material in the first place. They just don't really have much in common! (This point came about in response to my asking what this "friendship" was really based on, and why it was so important for him to make these efforts to be "friends.") He wanted to build some non-sexual experiences with her to share and to help form a basis for a more normal friendship, but I asked him why he wanted to spend his precious time doing that with her instead of me. Yeah. He thought about that one. And he saw my point and agreed with it.

 

2) Part of the reason he wants to have this "friendship" (and I'll use quotes, because I still don't feel this is a real friendship they have -- friends don't actively try to sabotage a "friend's" relationship) is because he feels bad about breaking up with her and hurting her feelings. (I think I made it clear that if he really wanted her to be happy, he'd let her have a chance at meeting her lifemate instead of keeping her attention focused on him. He sort of understood this concept, and admitted that women *do* send out different signals whether they're truly available or not.)

 

3) One concept really struck home with him: that every special event he shares with her is a lost opportunity for me and him to share and build on. (He started to get defensive about this weekend, saying it was a special once-a-year type of adventure he could have because it cost so much -- airfare, meals, hotel rooms and tickets to Universal Studios for the kids and the two of them -- and he has so few free weekends to do something like this. This argument really didn't help his case once I pointed out how he had chosen to spend his time and money for this special event with *her* and not *me* and my daughter, and we probably won't have another chance this year to do something similar. He admitted he saw how this was wrong, especially as he knew I grew up near the Hollywood Bowl, had spoken of wanting to share my old stomping grounds with him, and wanted more bonding time with our daughters together. Neither Bob or Wendy is even from Southern California, so it's not like she was sharing something of her childhood with him -- this was just a "family" thing, which is even how Bob phrased it. Well, *they* don't have a family together, and he saw, sort of, how this also sends the wrong message to his daughter and Wendy's daughter, confusing them about what's going on with their parents and their future family dynamic.)

 

4) Since I wasn't asking him to drop her as a friend, only to be included when they wanted to do something, he finally saw I wasn't telling him who he could be friends with. And he really didn't want to hurt me. So he finally agreed he wouldn't go along with her requests anymore to *not* include me.

 

He then asked if he and his daughter could still do things with her and her daughter. I said sure, as long as my daughter and I also get invited along, too. Which led to another lengthy discussion, since he didn't see why. So I asked him if he wanted to build a family situation with her and her daughter, or if he wanted my daughter to have more opportunities to bond with his daughter. He saw the point I was making, and agreed to invite me and my daughter if this situation arises. Case in point -- I had wanted to take *my* daughter to Universal Studios, and include him and his daughter, but that won't happen now, since he's already done this with Wendy and *her* daughter.

 

So Bob is still a bit angry that I'm not letting him continue his vague plan to convert this dead romance with Wendy into a "friend's" relationship. I asked him what his game plan is in this regard, and he still hasn't given me specifics. The gist is he hopes at some point she would feel comfortable with me in his life and settle into a normal friends role. But I pointed out to him how it's been 7 months already, she's still not willing to budge, and clearly isn't happy about me, about his happiness with me, or about *us* in general. If she were truly his friend, she would want him to be happy and NOT be actively causing conflict and pain in his relationship with me. He sort of sees this, but still basically feels I'm wrong about her motivations, and wrong about not believing his method of "friends" conversion is the right one. I reassured him I trusted him, but would never trust her as long as her actions and words painted a different picture of her motives.

 

Did I mention this is the first time *he* was the one breaking up? He doesn't think that's a factor, since he says he remained friends with past girlfriends before. But I pointed out that women are very good at the "friends" game with ex-boyfriends and have some experience with easy let downs. And when I also pointed out that the ex-girlfriends had gotten a new boyfriend, and he had also gotten new girlfriends, the whole situation was different. Besides, his examples were from when he was a teenager or in his early twenties. Things are a little different when you're pushing 50, like Wendy is. "Love" (spoken and felt) carries much deeper implications and hopes than it does for a kid or inexperienced young adult. He also saw the wisdom in this when I explained it.

 

Another troubling thing that came up again, but was clarified tonight: He has said how Wendy has remained friends with former lovers before, how she even cites an example of how this one fellow has remained her friend for over a decade, even through his marriage. I asked Bob if this fellow's wife was okay with the way Wendy likes to be friends with her ex-lovers (and I'll give her her the benefit of the doubt on the "ex" part here), and Bob admitted this fellow got divorced a couple years ago. I asked him if Wendy had a part to play in the breakup and divorce of that marriage, and he said he didn't know. But he cited other examples she has shared of being friends with guys, and when I asked about their wives or girlfriends involvement in Wendy's friendships, he said he didn't know about that either. Major major red flags with this lady. Bob thinks I'm out of line in suspecting her, but what else do I have to go on? The more I hear about her, and her past, the more I hear "homewrecker" loud and clear. She may be the nicest person in the world when she wants to be, and she may truly believe her intentions are pure, but so far her track record with me stinks, and her credibility with me has reached a new low. I doubt I can ever be friends with her at this point, despite Bob's hope we'll all get along with each other. It's up to her to make the effort now. I've said and done all I'm willing to until something changes.

 

When he asked if I felt better about talking, I made it clear that it's all been said before, and I've waited 7 months for him and Wendy to do the right thing. The time for words is over -- it's time for actions now. We'll see what happens. I expect she'll make things ugly, have a tantrum of sorts, and probably cut off this "friendship" with him if he insists there's no more alone-time or fantasy-family time between them anymore. And maybe he'll finally see her feelings and motivations for what they are. I hope I'm wrong about her, but every instinct I've got is ringing a 3-alarm fire and red flags. And my instincts have served me well over the years.

[chokra]

Most women in your place, however open and all-embracing their attitude, would have drawn the line at allowing Bob to have long telephone conversations, and even that, after being convinced that Wendy does indeed have a problem which requires Bob's intervention to resolve.

 

But you, Centered, have broken structures and stretched yourself by allowing Bob and Wendy, the 'adult-teenagers', to go ahead and actualize their "planned dates", knowing fully well that there is no specific issue that they need to meet and resolve.

 

And all you ask is that you be invited too, to give the occasion a semblance of propriety. If he can't understand the reason for that, kick his ass! Kidding...but at least, don't beat yourself up. You are being as understanding as any woman anywhere in the world can be. *hugs*

[centered]

Thanks, Chokra. I hope he someday sees just how patient I've been with this. I was prepared to leave him because of this, and I think he finally realized how far down the wrong path he had taken it. In his effort to cater to Wendy's innapropriate requirements for how their "friendship" should be, he was about to lose a 7 month investment with me.

 

When this whole thing first started, I thought I was just being jealous. But I've come to see I'm just plain angry because what she's been doing with him is just plain disrespectful of me. "Friend." Yeah, right. He apologized, at least. I don't expect her to apologize. I'm glad the weekend is over and I can put this in the past where it belongs. Thanks for the hugs and advice. You're a good sounding board.

[chokra]

...what she's been doing with him is just plain disrespectful of me.

Well, she clearly needs help, but Bob, he should have known better.

 

 

 

Thanks for the hugs and advice.

Oh, the pleasure was all mine. I enjoy hugging you.

 

Actually I came looking for you to contribute to a thread I have started...I soooooo want to know your opinion! But when I saw you so distraught, I couldn't get myself to broach the subject....but now that the sky has cleared somewhat and I can see a ray of sunshine dancing on your face, would you please click here and contribute?

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=580943

[Tiny Dancer]

It sounds like you have an excellent grasp of what's going on here. Personally I used to think that men and women were capable of being just friends after a sexual relationship but now that I'm older and wiser (44) I feel differently.

 

My H felt that he could remain friends with the woman he had perviously had an affair with. Despite my better instinct I didn't make a big deal about it. Now she is the OW once again and he has on more than one occassion volunteered that the "friends" things is dangerous with the opposite sex. Every time there was a problem in our relationship she was there with a shoulder to cry on.

 

Like Bob, my H was the one who ended it the first time. I think that such a scenerio increases the odds that the man will remain a prize for the Ex to try to win back! You've done yourself a favor by putting your foot down.