Really good date

[olivetree]

The fact that at 35 I have never had a gf. The problem is really I don't compete well enough with everyone else because if I did maybe one of the 5 people I have ever liked would have found me attractive in some way or other. The fact none have is indicative of how I cannot compete with the market.

 

Oh and the fact is I am very lonely.

 

I am sorry you feel so lonely.

It very well might seep out in your actions in some way on these dates.

 

My question was more about what your actions on the date / talking when not on the dates seems desperate?

Ex: responding to texts within 15 seconds of receiving them, because you're just staring at your phone waiting. Lol.

[ZA Dater]

I am sorry you feel so lonely.

It very well might seep out in your actions in some way on these dates.

 

My question was more about what your actions on the date / talking when not on the dates seems desperate?

Ex: responding to texts within 15 seconds of receiving them, because you're just staring at your phone waiting. Lol.

 

Here is the thing, I do respond to ALL texts quickly because work wise I have a lot on the go at once so I feel its completely ridiculous that I am then judged for responding too quickly to a text and rejected for that? I am on my phone almost all day to lesser and greater degrees.

 

It does seep out, given up trying to hide it but I don't make it too obvious. Honestly why judge me on that? Why judge a guy for being lonely?

 

Sorry I just don't get this mirco analysis of each and every thing, there are bigger more important thing when considering a guy than if he responds to quickly to a text or am I wrong, I might well be, heck I think I am wrong about everything to do with dating!

[alphamale]

So do tell us why women reject nice men?

because they are boring and don't take any risks...

 

Why cant women be honest with men?

 

women can't even be honest with themselves, how are they going to be honest w/ men?

[ZA Dater]

because they are boring and don't take any risks...

 

Why bother if you do its wrong, if you don't its wrong. Might as well do nothing .

Edited July 4, 2019 by ZA Dater

[elaine567]

So do tell us why women reject nice men? What did I possibly due to get ghosted? Why cant women be honest with men?

 

Women reject all types of men, not only nice ones.

Rejection is not based on levels of niceness, initial rejection is usually due to basic lack of attraction.

 

Women cannot be totally honest with men who are strangers, as women need to be careful not to enrage men, so they tend to say polite stuff then disappear rather than engage in what could end up in a fight.

[ZA Dater]

so they tend to say polite stuff

 

Well that at least say that!

 

But I get it, I really do why people end up using economics.

[elaine567]

"I need to think about relationship but even if we don't I want you as my friend".

^^

Was the polite stuff.

At that point it was all over.

Few women who want to see a guy again will mention the friend zone, that is the last thing she wants.

She wants to give the impression she is interested, not tell him he will make a great friend...

[spiderowl]

I was thinking the think that changes a guy from being a nice, likeable friend, to being something more is often that he teases a bit. It's like a fun teasing, like you might do with your mate that you know very well, pushing a boundary a bit but in a nice way. It should not be sexist, too personal, or jesting about someone's looks or weight, just amusing.

 

There is an element of showing attraction involved; for example,

 

"So what do I have to do to get the attention of an attractive woman like you"? "I'll consider it, as long as it is nothing too risque - don't want to give the wrong impression do I?"

 

"So, what is your favourite pastime? You could always ask me to join you? I'll swot up on whatever it is."

 

I don't know, it is really hard to give examples. The intention is to turn a meeting between friends into something a little more daring and fun. It gives you an 'edge', showing you are not afraid to say something a little daring.

[ZA Dater]

"I need to think about relationship but even if we don't I want you as my friend".

^^.

 

I give up.

[Morello]

You gave up a long time ago... you just didn't realise yet.

[Juha]

This is absolutely false. Women aren't ghosting you because you're the type of person to help a woman with her broken grocery bag! I don't know when men will get it into their heads that women are not rejecting men for being too nice.

 

I would disagree with this statement. Not being rejected because you help people, rejected because you are a nice, thoughtful person.

 

I have seen it happen, I have had it happen, I have had female friends reject a guy with nice being the reason. Meaning he is weak or perceived to be weak by the woman because he is nice.

 

Maybe you have not done this but it is not uncommon at all...

[ZA Dater]

You gave up a long time ago... you just didn't realise yet.

 

At least now I can walk around bitter about dating with fair justification for doing so. It an activity with considerably more negative than positive. Unlike anything else you can't improve, you get no feedback because well women don't do that, you get no honesty well because women don't do that either.

 

I'd love to change the entire fundamental of it but who am I really, apparently everyone else finds it complete bliss.

[Morello]

I don't think you can, no. You haven't been giving it a fair go because you already start the dating process thinking it's not gonna work, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You have a mindset that you're not cut for it, hence my previous post. You gave up years ago but kept 'trying' it just to confirm that you were right about it. You prefer to be right than to get laid. That's the clearest impression I got from your posts.

 

You have a very rigid idea of what dating should be like and you are very anxious about the whole thing. I don't blame you, given your lack of success. But the only way you can win at this is if you at least pretend you're pressing the 'reset' button and approach dating as if you never had failed before. Having a mindset that it's just a matter of time before you find someone you like. Thinking that it's ok to score with a girl that you don't think is too attractive, but who will give you invaluable experience (in flirting and in sex) that will only improve your chances to find the one you really want. Life is about experiencing it. Even the things you think you might not want but... have you tried? What was the last time you had sex? How do you know what you like or don't like if you have no experience at all? You seem to want the very attractive girls but let me tell you, dating these kind of girls can be a turn off because they usually are very entitled and self-centred.

 

I know I'm talking to a wall here because all these things have been suggested before but you failed to take the advice into account (although I'm sure you think you did).

 

Have you ever tried at least once to go out with a little cocky, confident, attitude, as if you were better than anyone else around? I know it's faking and I know this is not the behaviour to be promoted in general but I'm sure it would help you.

 

You get girls to go out with you (which means they are interested) and then they friendzone you. I think you're giving the desperate vibe. The more selective and the less you date or make out with girls, the more desperate you will become. And this cycle will never end. In 10 years you might become so frustrated that you will stop even considering doing it anymore.

 

What you just described about therapists just proves my point about how your mind is rigid. You don't even consider that there's a (even if small) possibility you are wrong. The same way, you have already decided that it's not gonna work for you in dating. With that mindset, I'm pretty sure it won't.

 

What helped in me dating is the following mindset: no one owes you anything. You don't owe anyone anything. People will only go out with you if they find you attractive. So it's your job to learn behaviours, to improve yourself mentally and physically in order to become the person who attracts the women you want. I don't think I get that vibe from any of your posts. You like to be the victim.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Morello

[chillii]

I would disagree with this statement. Not being rejected because you help people, rejected because you are a nice, thoughtful person.

 

I have seen it happen, I have had it happen, I have had female friends reject a guy with nice being the reason. Meaning he is weak or perceived to be weak by the woman because he is nice.

 

Maybe you have not done this but it is not uncommon at all...

 

 

 

 

Ahhh, don't believe this nonsense , l'm 50s never in my life has a chick said l'm too nice.

As l've said 100 times how many girls round here you see stayin with an AH or recommending it, matter of fact the slightest tiniest thing and it's next next ,

lf someone doesn't like someone in that way who really knows why, you tell someone anything, they;ll tell someone anything, few say the real reasons me included , because you don't wanna hurt someone if you can help it.

Truth is you just either do or you don;t and there's nothin anyone can do if it's don't.

Simple as that.

My woman adores that l'm such a nice guy to her and look after her, she tells me everyday, so did my ex w. And no she's not ex because l was nice to her , but she sure didn't like it when l turned into an ah.

[MaleIntuition]

Being nice is not a problem - the problem is when that’s all there is.

 

Nice, good hygiene, decent social skills, and so forth are “threshold attributes”. Consider them “must haves”, but never think that they by themselves are enough to invoke attraction.

[elaine567]

You homed into her "experience", the fact she has lived in different countries, her job in politics, her interest in philosophy, but what did you bring to her table?

Have you lived abroad, travelled widely, do you have a wealth of experience of life in general? What can you teach her?

I guess, that is the kind of man she is looking for, someone to expand her knowledge, someone to swap stories with...

You want someone to hide behind at your dinners and soirées, someone who will entertain and charm in ways you feel you cannot. But that someone also needs some payback in return.

I guess, none of these extrovert and interesting people you enjoyed, got enough back to keep them interested in you.

You may be "nice" but so is 90% of the population, nice is not and never will

be enough.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Unlike anything else you can't improve, you get no feedback because well women don't do that, you get no honesty well because women don't do that either

 

Have you ever asked a woman for feedback?

[JuneL]

You homed into her "experience", the fact she has lived in different countries, her job in politics, her interest in philosophy, but what did you bring to her table?

Have you lived abroad, travelled widely, do you have a wealth of experience of life in general? What can you teach her?

I guess, that is the kind of man she is looking for, someone to expand her knowledge, someone to swap stories with...

You want someone to hide behind at your dinners and soirées, someone who will entertain and charm in ways you feel you cannot. But that someone also needs some payback in return.

I guess, none of these extrovert and interesting people you enjoyed, got enough back to keep them interested in you.

You may be "nice" but so is 90% of the population, nice is not and never will

be enough.

 

^^^ This.

 

I thought I was done with the many clones of his thread

 

This woman likely thought you’re boring and not intellectually stimulating and not exciting and interesting enough.

[JuneL]

p.s. I’m always wary of those who self-proclaim to be such a nice or kind person, man or woman. S/he may make a big deal about not helping someone with a grocery bag, but couldn’t care less for causes that are much more important.

[ZA Dater]

What helped in me dating is the following mindset: no one owes you anything. You don't owe anyone anything. People will only go out with you if they find you attractive. So it's your job to learn behaviours, to improve yourself mentally and physically in order to become the person who attracts the women you want. I don't think I get that vibe from any of your posts. You like to be the victim.

 

I wouldn't go on dates if I didn't think I could find some success. However, the fact I haven't had any cannot be ignored either, nothing has proved I can actually date either.

 

Ad for matter of time, people told me that for the last decade and a half and nothing happened, sorry but I am a realist, I tend to believe things which have some tangible evidence of truth.

 

Getting laid with someone I don't find attractive doesn't have any appeal to me at all and I don't really see what help that would be in finding someone I do like? I have never been laid. What I find attractive is the overall person, the person who looks attractive to me, had an interesting job/hobbies, well spoken and carries herself with class. I rarely find anyone I find attractive, very rarely. For me all dating is about is finding mutual attraction, trust me I don't feel particularly great when all I match up with are people I find highly unattractive.

 

I am not better than anyone else so why pretend I am? Put me in a coffee shop and I am guy sitting in the corner on his own rather than sitting at the counter. How would being fake help me, I don't have that level of confidence. When going on dates I really, really try to come across confident.

 

At the moment I am considering just giving up, why shouldn't I not bother, what potential upside is there to me continuing. Each day I see couples and each day I just become that bit more cynical, that bit more jaded to the whole idea, see I don't look at the small stuff but when I read here that one can be friend zoned with replying too quickly then I metaphorically throw my hands up and just wonder why I bother if people take such trivial stuff to any level of importance.

 

I have tried for years to become marketable, changed styles, I am tall and fairly athletic but you know what those things don't count for anything. Again why keep trying if you keep getting the same result?

 

Really I wanted to actually try with this person as I felt we got along well, at the very least a "no I don't think we are compatible would have sufficed".

 

I agree nobody owes anyone but I disagree about attraction, I can go thrown $2k down in drinks and I am sure someone would date me. That's got nothing to do with attraction.

Edited July 5, 2019 by ZA Dater

[Acacia98]

ZA Date, I've noticed one thing you keep saying: that the women you like are never interested in you. Does that mean that there are women who are interested in you but you aren't interested in?

 

Frankly speaking, I can't pretend to know exactly why you've been unable to get a relationship. I suspect most folks here can't. We're all just speculating. Your best bet would be to get a well-trained psychologist or relationship coach who had a really good understanding of people and could interact with you one-on-one. They could tell you better than any of us could if you were doing something that was putting women off. Or if you were actually sabotaging yourself by exclusively showing an interest in women who you knew would not reciprocate. Or if something else was going on.

 

If I were you and I were desperate and I had tried everything else without success, I would definitely pursue this option. Because what do you have to lose? Worst case scenario: the therapy or coaching doesn't work and your situation doesn't change. So you actually lose nothing. Best case scenario: you get some insights into who you are/what you are... gain some more self-awareness, maybe that leads to better dating experiences and friendships.

 

I will tell you this: the "women don't like nice guys" claim is sometimes true... it's true for those women who don't like nice guys. It certainly isn't true for me and many other women. One of the major qualities that attracts me to a man is genuine kindness and a huge capacity for empathy. That's always been the case. Women are not all cut from the same cloth. We are different from each other, have different personality types, have different families of origin and experiences of trauma. All of these things influence our behavior. If you keep meeting women who don't like genuinely kind men, chances are that they grew up in families where their male parent/guardian was cruel/abusive and that is their model for what is normal. Alternatively, they may have low self-esteem for a variety of reasons. If you took psychology and therapy seriously, you would probably avoid such women because you'd recognize they had plenty of work to do on themselves. You wouldn't view it as a hard and fast rule that described all women. In short: it would be a very bad idea to take advice from men who only saw women as stereotypes.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Acacia98

[ZA Dater]

but what did you bring to her table?

Have you lived abroad, travelled widely, do you have a wealth of experience of life in general? What can you teach her?

I

You may be "nice" but so is 90% of the population, nice is not and never will be enough.

 

I bring honesty, sincerity and the ability to talk about almost any subject. I am also very analytical and a good problem solver.

 

Cant say I have met many people who have expanded my knowledge which is why I seldom find people attractive, this one is attractive, she doesn't party, doesn't club, hardly drinks and likes many of the same things I do. There was a good meeting of minds I thought.

 

I wasn't aware dating was a barter game, thanks for enlightening me.

 

You read me wrong, I want someone who can give me a challenge, someone I can support when they need it and vice versa. Someone who makes me smile, makes me laugh, makes me want to go on adventures with them. Someone I look at and I go 'wow". That's what I want.

 

She was all of that and very few are. A pity. She seemed really interested in me and actually asked lot of questions.

[littleblackheart]

Sounds like you basically want to date yourself in female form, give or take an inch?

 

Given there's only one of each of us, you're facing an uphill battle Sisyphus-style...

[ZA Dater]

Sounds like you basically want to date yourself in female form, give or take an inch?

 

 

Not really no. I have just been on enough dates to know what I don't want and what I do want. She really is a lot of what I like with very few compromises.

 

Understand it from my point view, I am not going to bother with people who party and drink because I don't do those things so it wont work from the outset, can rule out all of those people. I am not going to date someone religious because I am not that, so again that rules those people out. I am not going to date divorced moms because well I don't want someone else's kids in my life. What I have realised is at 35 most of the people I tend to find have some or all of those issues so I rule a lot of people out and then there are physical aspects I don't find desirable so that rules out yet more people.

 

Of course I'll be told "oh you must give those people a chance" why must I give those people a chance? Name me one good reason why when I am not given a chance? I might be lonely some say desperate but frankly if I cant have what I like then I'd rather have nothing at all. Maybe if more people actually did this the world wide divorce rate would fall.

[littleblackheart]

What differences are you willing to compromise on?