Really good date

[littleblackheart]

I'd be quite open to being befriended by a nice person, that would be a help. People are VERY reluctant to do this because I don't fit in, really I don't. Its like trying to blend petrol and water, they don't mix. A friend tried taking me to bars, clubs etc. it doesn't work for me and lets be honest if you cut out these places your chances of meeting someone drop.

 

I don't have the experience of a 35yo so that doesn't help with people in that range so essentially I don't have a market as such to look at. PLEASE don't tell me single moms!

 

ZA, it's not about single mums or not (your preferences are your preferences), it's about looking after your mental / emotional health so you are in a better place to approach dating and ultimately, finding a partner.

 

All these experiences have clearly affected you, yet you are repressing your emotions, bottling things up with only LS as a release valve, seemingly.

 

A good friend is definitely helpful; the thing is finding the tools to make friendships happen when you feel you don't fit in is an acquired skill too, for some people.

 

My personal experience has taught me that men are much more laid-back and accepting of quirks than a lot of women are (I don't know why that is) and that certain socio-economic / cultural backgrounds are point blank discriminatory against the odd ones out.

There are also PLENTY of really lovely, open-minded people who are willing to meet you half-way: you need to make the same effort, though. I have the best friends in the world, who respect my space as I respect theirs, but I had to work at it to get to a point where, in real life at least, social interactions are no longer a problem.

 

The main element is to be comfortable in your own skin, with no hang-ups or being self-conscious about what you are or not or what others like or not.

 

I know lots of people say 'be funny' but no one wants a funny ******* for a partner - 'funny' on its own means nothing.

You need a holistic approach, not worry about the qualities you think you may be lacking. Basically, be open.

 

 

This doesn't mean you will be changing who you are; you will still be you, only you will find it easier to deal with social situations.

 

No dating coach. No therapy. No forcing yourself into being someone you're not. No compromising on who you are or what you want. But you need to break that cycle somehow.

 

If I were you, I would get the ball rolling and see your GP. No one needs to know but you. LS will still be there to support you, but you need to support yourself too.

 

I hope this makes sense.

Edited July 9, 2019 by littleblackheart

[basil67]

ZA, you say that you're a very different person to who you were four years ago. This is progress. Bu my journey for personal improvement has been continuous for thirty years. Four years is only the beginning of the journey.

[ZA Dater]

Four years is only the beginning of the journey.

 

Decided there is too much water under the bridge so I am just going to focus on work and try forget dating completely. At 35 I cant really catch up to everyone else and its this "he is an oddity" which is putting everyone off.

 

If I ever try again I'll have some other pictures taken because in the past its amazing how I get response to a fake pic (one which doesn't look a lot different to me) but not to any picture I put up what's more interesting is there is actually genuine interest. FYI I deleted the account after 3 hours just wanted to see if my looks/picture were an issue or not.

[chillii]

l'm very individual, odd to some, doesn't matter that's who l am and l like it but it made no difference with women because l just went for a woman like me.

There's only about one in millions but l've known how to spot her and that's something you need to figure out.

And ironically from there it's almost automatic on both parts because you both know what you've found and how rare it is to find it.

And date sites are actually an advantage because she talks about herself right there and in that stuff is the stuff you need to know.

Hone yourself into on what suits "you" , look for that forget the rest and it'll be half the battle won.

Well , at least if you don't retire anyway.

[elaine567]

l'm very individual, odd to some, doesn't matter that's who l am and l like it but it made no difference with women because l just went for a woman like me.

 

The difference being that ZA Dater, does not want a woman like him, he wants an extrovert, popular, interesting, good looking woman, ie the woman that just about every man wants... He doesn't want a shy, "odd", average looking wallflower...

Matching a top notch woman with the "oddity" he describes himself as, is not then easy as that woman has choice and that woman is also looking for someone just like her.

 

His only hope is if he "sneaks up" on some woman he meets socially, in time she may see his value, but as he only socialises with a 40+ mainly male and married crowd then that is unlikely...

[NuevoYorko]

I am not completely blind as to how much I don't work with people, but I also cant completely rip up the piece of paper and magically change into something else. Frankly I have little reason to want to. What do I gain being someone I fundamentally am not?

 

Well, your enduring complaint, to which you've devoted approximately 18,437,523,749,002,007,208,115,373 here over several years, is your desire to get involved with another human on an intimate level and your evident inability to make that happen.

 

Working better with people is the only answer. Many of us have made positive changes in our lives and that's why we are incredulous and frustrated with your idea that because you are "nice" (I could take issue with that one), have a job, know your skill and are not a serial killer, you are entitled to "have" your ideal woman appear and give herself to you.

 

Nope.

[ZA Dater]

His only hope is if he "sneaks up" on some woman he meets socially, in time she may see his value, but as he only socialises with a 40+ mainly male and married crowd then that is unlikely...

 

All true to lesser and greater degrees. Simply going to try forget about it and move on. They don't like me, then really so be it. Freedom of association and choice but the time a lady complains to me about the typical stereotypical guy I don't think I am going to have much sympathy because its a choice.

 

Just like the choices I made with their unintended consequences.

 

People don't see my value in 5 minutes that's pretty much true and its a problem all on its own. Of course the other route to take is to just not take the whole thing seriously at all, work on some sort of game of sorts and then use that and see how I get along. Maybe women want a domineering type guy, which I traditionally am not. At the end of the day I might as well go out and just try anything.

[elaine567]

Maybe women want a domineering type guy, which I traditionally am not. At the end of the day I might as well go out and just try anything.

 

"Women" in general do not want to be domineered.

Some women want to be "domineered" by men, but in my experience they are usually emotionally damaged in some way.

 

Domineer

assert one's will over another in an arrogant way.

 

synonyms: browbeat, bully, intimidate, pressurize, menace, hector, boss (about/around), push around/about, order about/around, give orders to, lord it over, tyrannize, terrorize, persecute, oppress, dictate to, be overbearing, ride roughshod over, trample on, have under one's thumb, rule with an iron hand, rule with a rod of iron, use strong-arm tactics on, impose one's will on, bend to one's will, subjugate; informal bulldoze, walk all over, railroad, lean on, put the screws on, strong-arm, squeeze

Is that who you really want to be?

People in general value honesty and integrity, pretending to be someone you are not will soon be sussed out by most woman.

If you want to play games with who you are, pretend you are a confident, experienced man about town and a great lover, instead of turning to the dark side...

[schlumpy]

People don't see my value in 5 minutes that's pretty much true and its a problem all on its own.

 

That's one of my primary problems I have as an introvert. I don't make a good first impression because I cannot get myself to open up enough when I first meet people to allow them to take my measure. I'm quite sure that I'm perceived as being distant and uninterested. It takes several meetings before I open up.

 

By then the whatever filter the other person views me through has been formed and it can take months to turn that around.

 

This is why I suggested you change your environment to one where you experience multiple engagements with the same people and not just one time visits or dates. That way people can get a real picture of who you are.

 

It's not as much fun as the guy who is the instant hit of the party but that's who we are buddy and I haven't changed so I doubt you will either.

 

Both of us would be very good candidates for the next mission to mars. We could probably do 9 months in a space capsule standing on our heads and in space that old saying could be absolutely true.

 

Best Wishes

[ZA Dater]

"Women" in general do not want to be domineered.

 

Is that who you really want to be?

People in general value honesty and integrity, pretending to be someone you are not.

 

I used to believe that but not anymore. That being true I wouldn't battle to date.

 

For a joke I went out on another date with someone who didn't interest me pretended to be someone else and it still didn't work. Then realised I am completely incapable of flirting.

[elaine567]

For a joke I went out on another date with someone who didn't interest me pretended to be someone else and it still didn't work. Then realised I am completely incapable of flirting.

 

Flirting, witty banter, innuendo, finding fun in ordinary things, being silly, laughing a lot are all dating essentials really.

 

What kind of music do you like? Most people like to talk about music.

[JuneL]

May I offer a different perspective? If you’re going to tell flat jokes and trying too hard to look funny but in fact look odd, then it might be better to just be yourself. I recently was shopping for a new dentist. Both dentists I went to were trying very hard to tell jokes that weren’t remotely funny. Those were some of my oddest experiences.

[elaine567]

If you’re going to tell flat jokes and trying too hard to look funny but in fact look odd, then it might be better to just be yourself.

That is also very true.

Cringe worthy.

 

Natural spontaneous wit is best as opposed to telling contrived jokes, unless you happen to be good at telling jokes or your bad telling of jokes is actually hilarious...

Edited July 11, 2019 by elaine567

[Normm]

For a joke I went out on another date with someone who didn't interest me pretended to be someone else and it still didn't work. Then realised I am completely incapable of flirting.

 

 

You say you did it as a joke, then you say it "didn't work". What exactly were you trying to accomplish that failed to succeed?

 

 

What does flirting have to do with making a joke, pretending to be someone else, and ultimately failing in some unclarified goal?

[chillii]

May I offer a different perspective? If you’re going to tell flat jokes and trying too hard to look funny but in fact look odd, then it might be better to just be yourself. I recently was shopping for a new dentist. Both dentists I went to were trying very hard to tell jokes that weren’t remotely funny. Those were some of my oddest experiences.

 

 

 

 

WTF is wrong with these people, what's with all this must make women laugh bullshyt.

God l'll never understand these poor try hard lost souls.

[Trail Blazer]

May I offer a different perspective? If you’re going to tell flat jokes and trying too hard to look funny but in fact look odd, then it might be better to just be yourself. I recently was shopping for a new dentist. Both dentists I went to were trying very hard to tell jokes that weren’t remotely funny. Those were some of my oddest experiences.

 

It's the pits when they do that, isn't it? Especially when you've got your mouth open the whole time while they're talking and you can't tell them how lame they sound!

[ZA Dater]

Flirting, witty banter, innuendo, finding fun in ordinary things, being silly, laughing a lot are all dating essentials.

 

I don't have any of those essential at all. Not one.

 

Not really into music either.

[ZA Dater]

May I offer a different perspective? If you’re going to tell flat jokes and trying too hard to look funny but in fact look odd, then it might be better to just be yourself. I recently was shopping for a new dentist. Both dentists I went to were trying very hard to tell jokes that weren’t remotely funny. Those were some of my oddest experiences.

 

As has been established being myself doesn't work too well either... I simply went on this date with no expectations and just tried to spin a different story to see how that worked or didn't, it didn't work very well but nevertheless.

[Morello]

It's quite easy to see from your posts that what appears to you as a problem with dating is basically a problem with life itself or how you perceive it. You are very negative and I don't doubt you could have chronic depression since you don't seem to have ever discussed these issues with health professionals. If you can't smile or laugh, no one is going to want to be around you. Even just by reading your posts it is quite clear how negative and rigid you are about things.

 

Given your unwillingness to seek professional help, I think you are a lost cause. I would bet my money that even those women you find unattractive (including the single moms) would want to date you at all. People often have many difficulties in life and they just want someone who brings them joy and positiveness, not the other way around. Again, tis is not about flirting and dating game at all. You could learn all the flirting techniques in the world, if you give off a negative vibe, you'll never get second/third dates.

[basil67]

ZA, can you laugh at yourself?

[ZA Dater]

ZA, can you laugh at yourself?

 

Absolutely yes. Often on dates I recount silly things I have done in the past and laugh at them.

 

I don't mind being laughed at either.

[ZA Dater]

It's quite easy to see from your posts that what appears to you as a problem with dating is basically a problem with life itself or how you perceive it. You are very negative and I don't doubt you could have chronic depression since you don't seem to have ever discussed these issues with health professionals. If you can't smile or laugh, no one is going to want to be around you. Even just by reading your posts it is quite clear how negative and rigid you are about things.

 

Given your unwillingness to seek professional help, I think you are a lost cause. I would bet my money that even those women you find unattractive (including the single moms) would want to date you at all. People often have many difficulties in life and they just want someone who brings them joy and positiveness, not the other way around. Again, tis is not about flirting and dating game at all. You could learn all the flirting techniques in the world, if you give off a negative vibe, you'll never get second/third dates.

 

So the world is all fantastic and lovely, one should just ignore reality and live in la la land?

 

Seeing as judgement has been passed, you tell me how you would perceive never being able to date? Would that make you smile, I suspect not. Would constant rejection make you smile, again I suspect not.

 

Its easy to turn around and say 'oh you are negative" but did you ever think circumstance have something to do with it. Until find any sort of dating success I am going to perceive the entire process as negative because that's exactly what it is based on my past experiences.

 

"Health professionals" oh those people who sprout out a text book, sure I have met a handful and had a great time trying to take this lovely "theory" and equate it to reality.

 

Sure anyone can spend time with whoever they please, I couldn't care less actually but I do frown when women complain about being cheated on a treated poorly THEY choose those guys and frankly those character traits are about as obvious as the moon in the night sky.

 

In one respect I am lucky I can go on dates and simply say whatever I like within reason because I know the person wont want to see me again anyway and as soon as you start challenging peoples thinking you very soon realise, or I least I do, that very few of these people I wouldn't want to date anyway.

 

Sure, I forgot, dating is all about women want, which seems to fall into a few different categories

 

1: Macho man

2: Social man

3: Casanova

4: The guy here friends will love and he will fit in with

5: The guy she can bring home

6: The bad boy with whom she can live out her fantasies

7: The party guy to show her a good time every night the week

8: The wealthy guy, to buy her things she is unable to buy herself or because she doesn't have any motivation to improve herself.

9: The "perfect guy" these are the guys who appear to have the perfect life

10: The hot guy, so she can show him off to her friends like a trophy (apparently its acceptable for women to do this but not vice versa).

 

What they don't want

 

1: The realist, his pragmatic take on life does not fit with a fairy tale

2: The honest guy, why well, he is boring because what life without some embellishment

3: The working guy, why well he wont be so socially adaptable and wont fit in with her friends.

4: The knowledgeable guy, again useless in the grand scheme of things, who is really interested in the battle of midway.

5: The shy guy OH NO the least desirable of the lot, socially useless and seen as inferior.

6: The slim guy, no a guy must apparently look like some muscle bound gym hulk

7: The non drinking guy, again hugely undesirable and not seen as fun.

8: The non fun guy: self explanatory.

9: The guy who cant flirt.

 

So yes cynically dating has given me nothing but what it has given me is an very clear idea what most women seem to want. Which is about as useful as a cup of water in the Sahara.

 

 

Either I get beat down by these "demands" or I simply dismiss them as sheer folly. The latter is more appealing.

[chillii]

Yet another struggling guys list that's just the superficial bs in his perception .

However , just finished a small rant about that exact thing in another thread so l won't bother again.

Don't think we can help ya za , another 20 pager coming up of all the same ol jargon. Maybe ya should just forget about women.

[ZA Dater]

Yet another struggling guys list that's just the superficial bs in his perception .

.

 

Remember one thing my learned friend, perceptions are often based on experience.

 

 

I suppose conversely, they don't want me, I don't need to want them either. Widow shopping is free.

[basil67]

What they don't want

 

1: The realist, his pragmatic take on life does not fit with a fairy tale

2: The honest guy, why well, he is boring because what life without some embellishment

3: The working guy, why well he wont be so socially adaptable and wont fit in with her friends.

4: The knowledgeable guy, again useless in the grand scheme of things, who is really interested in the battle of midway.

6: The slim guy, no a guy must apparently look like some muscle bound gym hulk

 

 

So yes cynically dating has given me nothing but what it has given me is an very clear idea what most women seem to want.

 

I'm sorry, this is utter BS.

 

My husband is realist, Let's first be clear that realism isn't pessimism or negativity - it's about looking at wine and seeing a half a glass full. Not half full or not half empty. Just half. His realism means he's in touch with both the good and bad in the world.

 

He is honest but certainly not boring - we laugh frequently and he's Mr Popular at work and with mates, always getting invitations to things going on.

 

He is working. But very socially adaptable. See above about being popular at work and with mates and women for that matter. He can talk to anyone and they all think he's great.

 

He is knowledgeable. Super smart, hard working, knows heaps of trivia. Wouldn't know anything about the battle of midway.

 

He is slim. Nothing wrong with slim.

 

Your views of others who are successful are so incredibly off base.