Really good date

[ZA Dater]

I'm sorry, this is utter BS.

 

Your views of others who are successful are so incredibly off base.

 

My views are shaped by the experiences I have had and the type of guys I have inevitably lost out to.

 

So while I generally fail at dating I do note who is successful around me and the qualities they have.

 

Inevitably with me looks seem to be a factor too, specifically my face for whatever reason. Cut my face off pictures and I get good matches, include a smiling face and I get no matches.

 

Ultimately I guess it depends what I am hoping to accomplish with this, a friend, a night of fun, a connection, none seem gettable at the moment. So either I wallow in that or just simply live each day with its good and bad points.

 

If people see no value in me to date then so be it, I cant change what I cannot control.

 

 

The comfort I take is that millions of other guys struggle too.

Edited July 12, 2019 by ZA Dater

[basil67]

My views are shaped by the experiences I have had and the type of guys I have inevitably lost out to.

 

So how do you explain why my partner who exhibits many of the traits you call undesirable is so damn popular?

 

I would also argue that you also see no value in the far majority of other people.

[bene]

 

What they don't want

 

1: The realist, his pragmatic take on life does not fit with a fairy tale

2: The honest guy, why well, he is boring because what life without some embellishment

3: The working guy, why well he wont be so socially adaptable and wont fit in with her friends.

4: The knowledgeable guy, again useless in the grand scheme of things, who is really interested in the battle of midway.

5: The shy guy OH NO the least desirable of the lot, socially useless and seen as inferior.

6: The slim guy, no a guy must apparently look like some muscle bound gym hulk

7: The non drinking guy, again hugely undesirable and not seen as fun.

 

You are grasping at straws and now you even claim that all women want a dishonest unemployed dumb loud muscular drunk?

 

I think even you know deep inside that it’s simply not true, to say politely. Take a look at the people around you who are married or in relationships. Are they all really goodlooking babbling airheads you portray? How come scientists, engineers, teachers etc who don’t fit your stereotypes find their spouses, are they all single? We are talking about people in their thirties, not teenagers, right?

 

I agree about the fun part that people want to feel good and at ease. This is not in contradiction with having a job and being realistic and down to earth. Also it doesn’t mean being a clown.

[elaine567]

Trouble with this logic is you are attributing traits that you possess as being undesirable to women.

Those traits listed, realism, honesty, hard working, knowledgeable and slim are usually highly desirable to women. Some women are also attracted to guys who don't drink, or who have a serious nature too.

 

Your logic is flawed. It is not these traits that are making you undesirable to women.

[elaine567]

... and now you even claim that all women want a dishonest unemployed dumb loud muscular drunk?

 

Swoon.....

[ZA Dater]

I think even you know deep inside that it’s simply not true, to say politely. Take a look at the people around you who are married or in relationships. Are they all really goodlooking babbling airheads you portray? How come scientists, engineers, teachers etc who don’t fit your stereotypes find their spouses, are they all single? We are talking about people in their thirties, not teenagers, right?

 

 

Ok I never said "all" but its odd when I go out its guys exactly like that who never have any issue finding dates, clearly they have a market. Never mentioned anything about good looking....Clowns always get the most attention of that there is little doubt.

 

Maybe what I learnt is many people either settle or remain single, those appear to be the choices for most.

Its seemingly impossible to change those choices, you can either or you cant. Sure, you can go to gym, you can got to "spit" dating coaches who will take great glee in charging you but little of that will change fundamentals.

 

Things I am thinking about based on posts here

 

1: I clearly don't come across as well as I think I do

2: I look awkward most of the time

3: I am shy and lack confidence, even when I try fake it.

4: My choices in terms of dates are dire.

 

So my question to the forum is this, do I maybe have better friend qualities than dating ones? Maybe I am better suited to that?

 

Maybe what I want isn't attainable, how do I know what is attainable?

 

How do you reconcile that when you have met multiple people with those qualities though?

[ZA Dater]

All I'll do is keeping out these once of "good" dates, enjoy them for what they are but expect nothing.

[schlumpy]

All I'll do is keeping out these once of "good" dates, enjoy them for what they are but expect nothing.

 

It's always a good thing to keep your expectations low. You are never disappointed.

 

So you don't want to settle. You want a prescription woman labeled with minimal side effects. Give up trying to pick one of them and allow one them to pick you. Let them settle for you. If you can't rely on your own common sense then borrow it from one of the women you know.

 

Best Wishes

[ZA Dater]

It's always a good thing to keep your expectations low. You are never disappointed.

 

So you don't want to settle. You want a prescription woman labeled with minimal side effects. Give up trying to pick one of them and allow one them to pick you. Let them settle for you. If you can't rely on your own common sense then borrow it from one of the women you know.

 

Best Wishes

 

Well I simply want mutual attraction which I don't think is too much to ask. Sadly none of the ones I am attracted to would ever pick me so that rules that idea but yes your last post was correct.

 

I have tried seeing people more than once to try and show myself off better but that's almost impossible to do in consumer dating. Ironically guys must give girls chances but the reverse is never ever true...

[elaine567]

Ironically guys must give girls chances but the reverse is never ever true...

 

Do you never read the rest of the forum? Women giving men chances again and again and again...

[ZA Dater]

Do you never read the rest of the forum? Women giving men chances again and again and again...

 

I do, I just haven't never see that ever on any of the dates I have been on. Its a case of meet up and metaphorically throw away.

Edited July 12, 2019 by ZA Dater

[schlumpy]

ZA:

 

I notice that you like to write and you have a better than average command of English.

 

Consider looking into attending writing courses. They usually run from 3 to 9 weeks and vary from creative writing to technical writing. The benefits are you will be doing something that interests you, your writing skills may improve, it will be a change in your daily life and you can be as moody and brooding as you want to be because it will be expected of you as a writer. Buy a pipe and take it with you even if you don't smoke.

 

If the class is broad enough (and age appropriate) there will be lots of women that you can get to know.

 

Ask them to go for tea or coffee after class. Join a study group. Think how fascinating it will be to discuss sentence structure and the dynamics of setting up a good action sequence coupled with devastating character revelations within the story Line such as:

 

"Luke, I am your father."

 

Imagine the excitement in her voice as she pours out some of her more clever lines for your approval. Maybe you can pat her hand in sympathy but be careful, the timing has to be just right.

 

Nurture you imagination as to what your life can be.

 

Best Wishes

[Rayce]

I love schlumpy idea! Your thread is depressing me... can we change it up and talk about the things that you think are working well for you? Can we try posting all positive things today?

[Blanco]

Post #247 is so bitterly cynical that it's no wonder the OP continues to flail away on the dating scene. As others have noted, it's off-base and easily dispelled if you just look around realistically.

 

I see plenty of guys who don't fit the checklist of "what women want" according to the OP, and guess what? They've got a girlfriend or a wife. Likewise, I see plenty of guys who match some of the items on the "what women don't want" checklist who also have a girlfriend or a wife.

 

Honestly, OP should give up on dating. Far more unappealing than a guy with no experience is a guy who is so brutally cynical about the world he lives in. OP is probably a fine guy, but his worldview is so angry and unpleasant that no decent woman would want that. People don't want to be tethered to such negative energy, even if the holder of that energy thinks it's just them being "real."

[FMW]

So my question to the forum is this, do I maybe have better friend qualities than dating ones? Maybe I am better suited to that?

 

For me personally, and I have to believe for many others, they are not mutually exclusive qualities. Any man that I have real interest in has to have at least some of those "friend" qualities as well.

 

The whole issue is not as black and white as I think you are trying to make it. Attraction is elusive, it can't always be explained.

 

Unfortunately I have no idea what to suggest that hasn't already been suggested.

[ZA Dater]

Post #247 is so bitterly cynical that it's no wonder the OP continues to flail away on the dating scene. As others have noted, it's off-base and easily dispelled if you just look around realistically.

 

Honestly, OP should give up on dating. Far more unappealing than a guy with no experience is a guy who is so brutally cynical about the world he lives in. OP is probably a fine guy, but his worldview is so angry and unpleasant that no decent woman would want that. People don't want to be tethered to such negative energy, even if the holder of that energy thinks it's just them being "real."

 

How many of those guys simply settled?

 

My view is only a reflection of my own experiences, those who have had good experiences would have a different view.

[elaine567]

How many of those guys simply settled?

 

Some realism for you EVERYONE has to settle, life isn't the movies.

No-one gets everything they really want in a partner, Miss or Mr Perfect does not exist.

Everyone looks at who they have acquired and goes, "Can I live with that, can I live without that?"

Fortunately "love" tends to smooth out a lot of the imperfections and suddenly to us women, Mr Imperfect starts to look a far better prospect... Sex tends to do the same for men, Miss Imperfect starts to climb up onto that pedestal...

[schlumpy]

OP is probably a fine guy, but his worldview is so angry and unpleasant that no decent woman would want that. People don't want to be tethered to such negative energy, even if the holder of that energy thinks it's just them being "real."

 

I don't disagree with your assessment. It's very well thought out and supported but consider how many women seek out criminals in prison for relationships. I don't know ZA personally but I do believe he has a bit more character than a common thug, thief or murderer and yet these women pursue these guys.

 

I'm not suggesting he add a prison stint in his online profile although it might be worth a try, but he only wants interest from a couple of intelligent girls. Where are they?

 

I guess that's the question for me.

 

Best Wishes

[Blanco]

How many of those guys simply settled?

 

My view is only a reflection of my own experiences, those who have had good experiences would have a different view.

 

I'm sure some of them settled. I'm sure some would say that based on the superficial, the woman is the one who settled. And I'm sure there are plenty of them who feel they are with someone they're well suited for and are genuinely happy with the relationship.

 

I know the whole "settling" thing is one of your preferred defenses as to why only a sliver of the women out there are even eligible dating candidates. I'm not here to twist your arm and say pursue something you do not find desirable. What I am saying is that based on the caliber of woman you've described as being your ideal, it's likely that such a woman would be settling if she linked up with you. Again, you don't seem like a bad person, but if we're laying it out there, attractive, intelligent, sociable women probably aren't going to find much appeal in a mid-30s guy with no relationship experience and such a rigid, myopic view of women and relationships in general.

[elaine567]

The women looking for prisoners, serial killers and thugs are damaged people who I guess would be too much of a handful for ZA Dater, even if he could get their interest.

The problem ZA Dater has is that he is looking to buy a palace but he has only a few coins in his pocket.

The women he seeks are not looking for a guy like him, there is a fundamental disconnect.

He is looking for the "pick of the crop", but they do not see him as the pick of the crop, so are not interested, that is the bottom line.

Many of these women are looking for husband and father material, they either have kids or want kids ASAP, ZA Dater has ruled himself out of that market, Some of these women will be fresh out of LTRs and marriages and will want to party and have a good time, ZA Dater has ruled himself out of that. Some of these educated woman are looking for academics and graduates, ZA Dater never went to University... Some women will be looking for adventurers and free spirits, ZA Dater can never be described as that... etc. etc.

 

I am sure he will be a great catch for someone, but I guess not for those he sees as attractive just now.

[Blanco]

I don't disagree with your assessment. It's very well thought out and supported but consider how many women seek out criminals in prison for relationships. I don't know ZA personally but I do believe he has a bit more character than a common thug, thief or murderer and yet these women pursue these guys.

 

Probably, but a lot of these women are probably beneath the OP in his own eyes.

 

I suggest doing some reading on previous threads. OP has been laying out the same grievances for years.

 

I'm not suggesting he add a prison stint in his online profile although it might be worth a try, but he only wants interest from a couple of intelligent girls. Where are they?

 

They're around, but if we're being honest, they have better options than an overly serious guy with no relationship experience and a superiority complex.

[littleblackheart]

ZA, so many times it's been suggested to you that you might be on the autism spectrum. Having gone back to some of your threads, I will gently suggest looking into NPD instead - this unwavering unwillingness to seek outside help, the self-centeredness, self-aggrandising, bitterness, perpetual woe is me attitude is not ASD-related.

 

Whatever it is, it is pervasive and long-lasting, and it won't get better.

 

Go and see your GP.

Edited July 12, 2019 by littleblackheart

[ZA Dater]

The women he seeks are not looking for a guy like him, there is a fundamental disconnect.

.

 

The funny thing is I am not looking for the pick of the crop at all. Why would I do that because I'd then be competing in an arena where I realistically cannot win. Mostly I tend to go for people who are a bit different and unusual in some way.

 

Is anyone looking for a guy like me, well I used to think I was an ok guy and an ok catch but I don't know anymore. One thing, you are wrong I did go to university....

 

The tough part I guess is to find someone, the impossible part of selling myself in a way they will actually find me attractive as a prospect. So yes I have these fleeting great dates where someone reminds me how good it could be but soon bumps me down to reality and that's the thing when you realise how nice it can be, if only for an hour any other experience isn't quite as good.

 

Is my market very limited, yes it is by virtue of what I am and how I think. Often I wonder what is so off putting but then I remember the entire package probably is. If I think about the best dates I had, they were good because I intellectually could connect with them so the conversation was good and I had someone to actually challenge me for a while and enjoyed spending time with them.

 

Despite what people say I do try and spin a positive on the date itself, try to make them laugh, try to make them smile but I have no real charm so its very tough to get into the attraction zone. Its hard work to try be that smiling, laughing guy, arguably as hard as a day at the office in some respects.

 

If I think back there has always been a disconnect between me and dating, even when I had some sort of interest it was always the people who were not interested which held the greatest allure.

 

I guess what bothers me most are the things I get written off for aren't ones I can change....

[elaine567]

One thing, you are wrong I did go to university....

I apologise I just assumed, as university is usually a great place to socialise and date and most come out of their shell there.

[ZA Dater]

 

Whatever it is, it is pervasive and long-lasting, and it won't get better.

 

 

I am quite fine thanks, I can do the things in life I want to do so the scales are still better balanced in favour of good than bad, it just bugs me I am alone all the time, it bugs me people don't want to get to know me, it bugs me I match with people I don't find attractive. But when I spend time doing things I like I find all of that bothers me less.

 

My motto in life is to try and do good to those around me and I do tend to live by that, its hugely humbling to build someone up give them skills to do something, see how they react when they see you believe in them. I can do this all very easily and enjoy doing it because I see how people look at me, I see how dates treat me and if I can turn the wheel the other way and for every bit of negative direct at me put back some positive with someone else, to me that's balancing things out.

 

I sit on dates and recount this and it means nothing to these people, absolutely nothing. I am no hero, I don't want to be, all I want to do is be me and be accepted for me rather than having to go on dates and project someone I am not. However, if I want to date it seems I need to be someone else, so I look around and then decide what sort of someone I can realistically be?

 

With everything you keep trying and see the improvements as you go, you work out how to improve, how to tweak things BUT dating for me never gives me that, there is never a sense ok I am getting better at this, the biggest sense I get is "well I have to embellish me, I need to twist the truth more, I need to try being charming more" but the returns aren't there. I am not going out to get laid, I am going out to try and get someone to be my friend. That's all. And yes it hurts that, that never ever seems to work.

 

K is a good example, sure I don't see her that often but unquestionably she has made me a better person for no other reason than she is nice to me. Is it so hard to expect people to just be nice? In many respect with K I get to live vicariously and get some of the friend side of dating and its nice, we talk about anything, she knows as much as all of you do about my dating struggles, in fact I don't hide them, everyone I know knows about it. We laugh about it too.

 

Life is short but the way I see it, I'd rather see one K every few weeks than one person every day who doesn't bring the best out of me.