Really good date

[ZA Dater]

I apologise I just assumed, as university is usually a great place to socialise and date and most come out of their shell there.

 

 

There was never any common ground. They partied: I didn't, They drank: I didn't.

 

Factor those things and it was quite a lonely experience. The irony is from time to time I would get attention from some really pretty ladies but those two things sunk the deal instantly.

 

My perceptions aren't always right, my views might not be either but unfortunately when I go out here, to a bar or a club all around me I see examples of those perceptions, just today "I cant meet you I want to go out and get really drunk with my friends" this is a 35yo. Would this person be compatible with me, probably not. Would someone who sits at home on weekends and goes to food markets be compatible with me: probably yes. SO I do look at the fundamentals to try not to have a complete miss match.

[basil67]

Would someone who sits at home on weekends and goes to food markets be compatible with me: probably yes.

 

Ironically, the women who are more likely to fit this bill are single mothers. The childless 30yo has no reason to be hanging at home on a weekend.

 

Also I need echo the posters who've just said that everybody settles. Except we don't call it settling - it's about recognising that the perfect package doesn't exist.

 

For me? I've never placed appearance high on the list of what I'm looking for. As long as he makes somewhat of an effort to dress nicely, I'm all good. You've got no idea how many great guys are out there who aren't 9/10 in looks.

Edited July 12, 2019 by basil67

[BaileyB]

Also I need echo the posters who've just said that everybody settles. Except we don't call it settling - it's about recognising that the perfect package doesn't exist.

 

Amen. Dr. Phil says - look for a partner who meets 80% of the qualities you would hope to find in a perfect partner. As long as there are no dealbreakers, you are doing pretty well...

 

It’s just reality. Nobody is perfect - not even you ZAdater. The day that you loosen up your expectations is the day that you will find a whole new bunch of women to date.

 

For me? I've never placed appearance high on the list of what I'm looking for. As long as he makes somewhat of an effort to dress nicely, I'm all good. You've got no idea how many great guys are out there who aren't 9/10 in looks.

 

So true. When I was younger, I was more focused on appearance. You realize as you get older, that looks fade. What attracts me to a man now is so much different than when I was younger. With age comes wisdom...

Edited July 12, 2019 by BaileyB

[Normm]

I have tried seeing people more than once to try and show myself off better but that's almost impossible to do in consumer dating.

 

Correction:

 

Seeing a woman more than once is almost impossible in ZA dating.

[littleblackheart]

K is a good example, sure I don't see her that often but unquestionably she has made me a better person for no other reason than she is nice to me. Is it so hard to expect people to just be nice? .

 

Mate. Respectfully, this level of lack of self awareness is excrutiating; it does not befit a 35yo.

 

Sincerely, I wish you the very best. I'm out.

[elaine567]

My motto in life is to try and do good to those around me and I do tend to live by that, its hugely humbling to build someone up give them skills to do something, see how they react when they see you believe in them. I can do this all very easily and enjoy doing it because I see how people look at me, I see how dates treat me and if I can turn the wheel the other way and for every bit of negative direct at me put back some positive with someone else, to me that's balancing things out.

I sit on dates and recount this and it means nothing to these people, absolutely nothing. I am no hero,

 

Stop doing that on dates, no-one likes that.

You are on a date, it is not your place to try to build anyone up. You are on a date, it is not a teaching session nor is it an interview.

To recount your "good deeds", where you are the hero saving the day for these poor unfortunates will be a complete turn off. It comes across as arrogant, superior and condescending. "Look at me I am so good... "

People have jobs where they build people up every day, they don't go around boasting and expecting people to be impressed, they just get on with it, under the radar...

You are in fact just building yourself up and that can just be a bit too much... you don't know this person, maybe stick to small talk for the first date.

People make up their own minds about how good a person is, they don't really like it stuffed in their face.

Stop trying to sell yourself too hard, no-one likes that. It comes across as contrived and desperate, relax.

"Natural" is key.

[ZA Dater]

T maybe stick to small talk for the first date.

People make up their own minds about how good a person is, they don't really like it stuffed in their face.

Stop trying to sell yourself too hard, no-one likes that. It comes across as contrived and desperate, relax.

"Natural" is key.

 

I don't what small talk is I thought the above was perfectly ok as it goes to character. At least I am figuring out what I am apparently doing wrong here...

 

Natural for me is business so cool I'll go and talk about business and politics.

 

See I am not seeing the point of a date if all one can talk about is the weather or some other subject which provides no intellectual interest at all.

 

What am I supposed to do, honestly? I am cool at being critiqued just makes me realise how utterly pointless a date is

[Normm]

Natural for me is business so cool I'll go and talk about business and politics.

 

Business can be boring so make sure it's something that gets her attention and keeps it and be ready to change the topic if she isn't interested.

 

Politics are a definite NO on a first date, don't even think of going there.

 

 

just makes me realise how utterly pointless a date is

 

 

For you. Dating works for lots of people- you know all those couples you see, married or otherwise, gay or straight. They all had a first date.

 

Just because YOU have no success (for reasons that have been discussed ad-nauseum for over 5 years) doesn't mean dating doesn't work.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Normm

[elaine567]

Natural for me is business so cool I'll go and talk about business and politics.

Why would you do that?

Do you think that is "natural"? I guess you are being deliberately obtuse but if not.

 

Politics and business are both topics most would stay well away from on a date, even if they were highly interested in both topics.

 

Boring and too controversial. Stay away from work topics, its a date not a business meeting and politics will no doubt cause an argument.

Why deliberately try to self sabotage?

[Blanco]

Because self sabotage under the guise of trying is a lot easier than making real efforts to adapt or grow.

[Normm]

Why would you do that?

Do you think that is "natural"? I guess you are being deliberately obtuse but if not.

 

Politics and business are both topics most would stay well away from on a date, even if they were highly interested in both topics.

 

 

Looking back at that "politics and business" post it appears ZA is being dryly sarcastic- so dry in fact that it's not clear that he's joking. Even to intelligent, witty, and sarcastic people such as me. That fits- as per his numerous prior posts where his dates don't get his jokes and look at him with a blank stare (after looking at their watch and the nearest exit) because they think he's just plain weird- whereas in ZA's mind and his rather skewed way of thinking it's going around in his head to the tune of "If you don't get my joke you're not smart enough to date me", sort of reasoning.

[ZA Dater]

Why would you do that?

Do you think that is "natural"? I guess you are being deliberately obtuse but if not.

 

Politics and business are both topics most would stay well away from on a date, even if they were highly interested in both topics.

 

Boring and too controversial. Stay away from work topics, its a date not a business meeting and politics will no doubt cause an argument.

Why deliberately try to self sabotage?

 

You see here is the problem and my old pal Normm isn't totally wrong. Most of my day is focused on work, even when I am not working my mind is there. When its not I am reading about world affairs on new sites, heck I sometimes even read celebrity news when the mood so takes me.

 

However, on a date what am I supposed to talk about, honestly? Do I sit there ask her a 100 questions. Do I find a topic she wants to talk about and spend hours harping on that? I can count on one hand how many dates actually asked me about me. This lady did which was refreshing.

 

My view is to try and get to know the person but I don't see a lot of relevance in discussing where someone went to school, where they grew up.

 

I can sit down and talk about things I am passionate about, things I enjoy, experiences I have had but those aren't very universal things and in some instances people cannot relate to them so I don't tend to ever bring these things up.

 

There isn't a lot of flirting because frankly I don't have the charm to try pull that off, I will try from time to time but it just becomes so awkward its not something I do often.

 

I have seen other guys seemingly connect with ladies, I have never been able to accomplish that ever and I put it down to a lack of charm and confidence.

 

The other reality is this, so I get a second date, what exactly would I do on a second date? What would I do on a third date? There would have to a lot to the person to keep me interested, there would need to be a lot of common ground to be some sort of glue. So if I look at it like this maybe getting one date is in fact an accomplishment even if they don't go anywhere.

[ZA Dater]

Looking back at that "politics and business" post it appears ZA is being dryly sarcastic- so dry in fact that it's not clear that he's joking. Even to intelligent, witty, and sarcastic people such as me. That fits- as per his numerous prior posts where his dates don't get his jokes and look at him with a blank stare (after looking at their watch and the nearest exit) because they think he's just plain weird- whereas in ZA's mind and his rather skewed way of thinking it's going around in his head to the tune of "If you don't get my joke you're not smart enough to date me", sort of reasoning.

 

I actually was being slightly sarcastic but also slightly truthful. Most people don't get dry humour, I know other guys who use it and most people don't get their humour either. Heck I sometimes get blank stares with some of the language I use, never mind humour.

 

I have tried to improve my overall date strategy but based on what Elaine says its still completely wrong. In some respects I think all a date is, is like a presentation of a product, people either like the presentation enough to try the product or they like the product enough to overlook a dull presentation. I have neither the product nor the presentation which interests anyone so I am continually trying to do what is very hard to do, sell the product with both those limitations.

 

Maybe the issue really is a lack of any sort of attraction because based on what I have read, some attraction can overcome some of the other issues, clearly I don't have enough of it for the other issues to be overlooked.

[elaine567]

I actually was being slightly sarcastic but also slightly truthful. Most people don't get dry humour, I know other guys who use it and most people don't get their humour either. Heck I sometimes get blank stares with some of the language I use, never mind humour.

 

Your dry/sarcastic humour may explain why these women disappear and block you.

They do not know you, so they take you seriously.

I suggest dry/sarcastic humour is not appropriate for first dates, as it can be easily misinterpreted, especially if very dry or very dark or very cryptic.

People in general don't expect it from someone they don't know, they don't then "get it", even if they do they may not find it that funny anyway and it can lead to your date feeling defensive, angry, humiliated and uncomfortable, the last thing you want.

People in general do not want to feel laughed at by some guy making fun at their expense, which is often the basis of dry/sarcastic humour. You know and get the joke, they don't.

Fine for colleagues and friends, not for nervous women out on a date.

Many will then see you as a jerk.

[ZA Dater]

Your dry/sarcastic humour may explain why these women disappear and block you.

They do not know you, so they take you seriously.

I suggest dry/sarcastic humour is not appropriate for first dates.

 

Again looks like I may as well give up as apparently nothing I do on dates is is per the dating instruction manual whatever that may be.

 

It's about the only humour I have.

[elaine567]

It's about the only humour I have.

 

You need to modify it, or alert them first that your sense of humour is very dry.

 

I get it though, it is all about self protection and preservation.

In order to tell a joke or even execute a witty one liner, you have to lay yourself out on the line.

"Here am I ZA dater, telling you a joke I find funny, to entertain you."

A joke, she may judge you on and if it goes badly it may dent your ego, which is pretty fragile.

 

Whereas a dry humour joke or sarcastic quip may go undetected, no judgement, no ego dent.

She gets it great, she doesn't get it, you can then even feel superior.

 

Only problem being that dry humour/sarcastic joke may have touched a nerve or she detects your arrogance, or she feels "got at", or she hates your cynicism and it is all downhill from there.

[basil67]

YHowever, on a date what am I supposed to talk about, honestly? Do I sit there ask her a 100 questions. Do I find a topic she wants to talk about and spend hours harping on that? I can count on one hand how many dates actually asked me about me. This lady did which was refreshing.

 

My view is to try and get to know the person but I don't see a lot of relevance in discussing where someone went to school, where they grew up.

 

Oh dear, your conversational skills really are sucky

 

A date isn't supposed to be Q&A. Nor is it presenting a product (as you mentioned in another post) It's about finding connection. Yes, it may take a couple of questions to find connection but shouldn't take a lot more. The discussion about school and growing up is about finding connection. "Oh, you grew up in X suburb? I used to go there a lot. Do you used to go to the swimming hole there?" "Oh, I learned to do hill starts on the big hill in that suburb. Absolutely terrifying!" this can lead into a discussion about how great it was to be able to learn to drive in empty parking lots when shops weren't open on a Sunday. Or if there's nothing remotely similar, you could segue into a discussion about the general stuff you did as kids and find commonality there.

 

When my husband met my sister's now husband, it took them all of 10 minutes to discover that they were in neighbouring soccer teams and knew many of the same people. It's a connection.

 

Not all of us have mainstream hobbies. One of mine is making Victorian corsets. People who have poor conversation skills will look at me like a deer in headlights. But someone with good skills might ask a few questions about how I got into it or techniques involved. They may then find commonality in terms of being a history buff or enjoying work which needs a high degree of accuracy. Or they will ask where I wear them, find out I go clubbing with goths, ask about the music and we'll get into a whole discussion of Post Punk, New Wave and 90th goth music. They may be jealous that I just bought tickets to see The Sisters of Mercy in October when they tour. That could then end up in a discussion about great bands. Or old bands who's performances are really lame now. Or, they may not know The Sisters of Mercy and ask to hear a song.

 

That said, there are still some who can't hold a good conversation. A lot of people who are chronically single on dating sites do have sucky conversation skills - it's the very reason they are chronically single. It would be foolish to expect them to have great skills when you don't possess them either.

[chillii]

And see there's a killer right there too, instruction manual , l mean fk me.

l know you didn't mean that literally but at the same time being anything like some script or plotted plan at a time like that will just blow it to shyt right there.

Things have just gotta be left to flow and see where they go, try just taking along yourself and in a good mood and winging the rest .

And yeah usually gotta allow for a dry humor with people too , l always find if l don't through in a bit of a chuckle or grin with it just goes straight over people.

Such is life, just try warming it up a bit, dry humor often has a bit of a cold edge even a sarcasm way about it. Real turn of in a sitch like a date bar on the very odd occasion she might actually get it.

 

Think l said this months ago and did a lot of others but it really sounds like you need to lighten up a bit bad.

[basil67]

Further to making a connection - when I met my hubby, I was into photography. But he didn't know how to use an SLR. Instead of this being a conversation stopper, he wanted to know more and I taught him - another connection.

[basil67]

And see there's a killer right there too, instruction manual , l mean fk me.

 

I didn't find this comment odd because many in the Aspergers community do joke about the instruction manual. It's a comment which makes connection to others who feel the same way.

[chillii]

Ahh right well if that's the case yeah, l know nothin about that side of things.

[basil67]

Yeah, it's a frequently used phrase among Aspies who are talking their difficulties in making friends and dating. Any Aspie will know about the Handbook or Instruction Manual which they were never given.

[jspice]

 

My view is to try and get to know the person but I don't see a lot of relevance in discussing where someone went to school, where they grew up ...”

 

Not sure why I’m trying again. Maybe because I hope these endless threads will stop someday.

 

I am a university ESL instructor. Every semester I get brand new, Asian students where their only objective is to speak.

In an Asian classroom the students are accustomed to listening to their lecturer. No questions, just receive the wisdom.

It’s my job to bring them out of their shell on the first day. This is hard as they have their lack of English to contend with too. They also don’t know anyone in the class. That’s a lot to handle. Their entire course consists of them speaking with me but more importantly, with each other.

 

My most effective tool is based on the concept of speed dating. They have to face a partner and get to know them. The basic questions are a starting point for any relationship.

They can ask whatever they want but if they are shy or get stuck, I have a list of questions.

Where’s your hometown?

What’s your major?

Do you have siblings?

 

There are others but they’ve been answering these questions their entire lives. It’s what they know.

With the first round they are scared and shy. They stick exclusively to my stack of questions.

 

The conversation will go like this:

 

A: where’s your hometown?

 

B: it’s Seoul/ London/ whatever.

 

A: What? Really? Me too! Where in London are you from?

 

B: I’m from Camden, what about you?

 

A: Pimlico but my sister lives in Camden. Do you know the bakery in XYZ street?

 

B: yes! It’s my favourite! I usually buy the blueberry muffin.

 

Do you see how we went from a boring old hometown question to blueberry muffins? By the time they get to person 3, they are so much more confident. Some even stop using my questions.

Next class A and B are going to sit next to each other. They found a common bond and now they have a friend in class to talk with.

 

I’ve had very extroverted and extremely introverted students. This works every time. These relationships then extend beyond the class.

You’re sitting there waiting to be impressed. Humble yourself and ask the “irrelevant “ questions.

 

Put your “sense of humour” away. You’re not funny.

Sarcasm only works with people who know you. Stop expecting so much from a first date.

 

If they’re not asking you basic questions, instead of waiting for them to read your mind, say “ what would you like to know about me?”

 

Politics is a contentious issue for a first date.

 

When people talk about themselves they have the best time ever. Every day I meet a new student. I ask them about themselves, what they like or don’t like, where they live, etc

At the end of their lesson they tell me it was the best class they’ve ever had and they keep coming back.

They don’t even realise they’ve been talking about only themselves. They also forget they’re speaking their second language.

 

Try it. Stop trying to get them to ask about you. That will come.

Don’t meet girls in clubs. Stop swiping right on women who don’t appeal to you. Stop being condescending.

[basil67]

Great conversation example there Jspice

[jspice]

Thanks. I think we cross posted. Hopefully your and my suggestions can end this ?

Your corset hobby is so cool! I knit. Not nearly as exciting but I make cute baby things and will gladly show off my pictures.

My brother-in-law who’s notoriously disinterested in anything that’s not relevant to him always asks me what I’m making or will even watch me make a little hat bobble.

 

I knit the cutest baby Uggs and I’m quite proud of them so anyone that asks me about them gets tons of points in the plus column.