Really good date

[Normm]

But I guess I as a person just don't really work in terms of desirability.

 

Ugly guys get chicks. Sometimes good looking ones. And it's not always about the money. Sometimes, lots of times, sure it's about the money. Sometimes it's despite the lack of money and good looks.

 

Such is life.

 

Once again ZA is rejected, once again ZA is a victim and is still unwilling to different.

 

On this thread, once again the suggestion that he work with a dating coach was brought up for the zillionth time, and once again ZA shoots it down for no better reason than "he isn't interested".

 

Dude if you want to continue fail forever then keep right on doing the same things and reject new ways of doing things and learning how to improve yourself.

 

But don't blame "life". Your unwillingness to try new things is your ultimate downfall.

[Rayce]

because he was ghosted

 

It's only been a couple of days. ZA have you followed up with her? A text message or anything? She might very well just be scared and moving slowly. Personally I was excited to read that she initiated the hug and kiss. I might initiate a hug but not a kiss... and then he says he gave her a proper kiss and she was smiling… Ask her out again already and go for the second kiss and find out.

[chillii]

Yeah that's what l was wondering.

What happened to make you think she's off, she ignoring you or something.

And nah mate , she doesn't have endless choices, she wouldn't be single at 35 and on a date app if she did, don't believe the allusion .

Matter of fact , l remember reading about her and she wouldn't be just anyones cup of tea.

[Johnson1]

The comment she made isn't a yes or no to relationship. That's just her way a saying she wants to get to know you better until she can decide if you're a romantic fit for her, make her conclusions that you're both compatible and guage your words versus your actions to decipher your level of honesty. Stick with it and be charming, but not overbearing. If you have a good heart she'll come to see that in time and appreciate it.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Vocals5

[rightondude]

ZA don't give up. Make yourself better than all these other ZA dudes.

 

Send her one last text. Say "Hey! I got (something cool going on that you'll likely have to spend money on), wanna go?"

 

See what happens

[ZA Dater]

Have you tried OKCupid?

 

 

 

Yes and I have never found anyone there who interests me at all.

[ZA Dater]

Send her one last text. Say "Hey! I got (something cool going on that you'll likely have to spend money on), wanna go?"

 

See what happens

 

I did exactly that and she just ignored it. Even sent a picture of the place. Honestly as a friend said to me I need to play games, which I am not interested in doing, its quite simple she either wants to see me again or she does not. Someone who wanted to see me again would say "cool lets go" rather than simply ignore the question.

 

The fundamental problem remains the same, I just don't have any level of desirability to the people I really like absolutely nothing ever has given me any substantive proof that anyone I like is actually attainable for me. Never.

[ZA Dater]

Sometimes it's despite the lack of money and good looks.

Once again ZA is rejected, once again ZA is a victim and is still unwilling to different.

 

Dude if you want to continue fail forever then keep right on doing the same things and reject new ways of doing things and learning how to improve yourself.

 

But don't blame "life". Your unwillingness to try new things is your ultimate downfall.

 

Really have no idea what you expect me to change exactly? I went here as me, projected good open body language, she kissed me on the cheek I turned and kissed her properly, I laughed and I smiled during the date, varied the conversation. What else?

 

Apologies not sure where in the world you are but I have never seen the bold fairy tale ever.

 

Am I victim maybe yes, a victim of being very specific in what I like and a victim of not fitting in with the general wide world, my problems yes but do you think this doesn't irritate me to some degree? I am not going to find the party girl attractive, I am not going to find the single mom attractive, I am not going to find the receptionist attractive who doesn't know where NYC is on a map. Nor am I going to find an au pair attractive. Do I judge, absolutely, absolutely to the extent I am judged.

 

I liked this lady because she has actually done things in life and is motivated to do more, she speaks well, exudes class (rare to find on Tinder here) and there are certain fundamental philosophies we have in common so I thought.....well we all know what thought did.

 

Irrespective another unhappy conclusion which I suppose many expected.

[ZA Dater]

compatible and guage your words versus your actions to decipher your level of honesty. Stick with it and be charming, but not overbearing. If you have a good heart she'll come to see that in time and appreciate it.

 

Thank you for the kind words, however any goodness I have is never really important when it comes to dating. Reality is I am the guy everyone can count on but nobody wants to date, that's just the reality of it. Every so often I try prove this reality wrong but am reminded each time of the inherent truth of it.

 

If she really wanted to see me she would simply say "sure lets meet up" when I asked her if she would like to go to a place she described as "stunning". I am sorry you either want to see a person again or you don't, there isn't a grey area here in my opinion.

[elaine567]

I can see the problem with OLD is that you are two complete strangers looking for a date, so it is very black and white.

Attraction - tick -> 2nd date.

Attraction - no tick -> no 2nd date, back to being strangers.

 

Most mature adults have enough friends, and opposite sex friends can just be trouble, so there is no need to develop anything from her POV.

There is also a continuous stream of new people to explore and time is marching on so...

Next!

 

Your needs are very specific so yes it is always going be difficult, not only does she need to tick your boxes, you need to tick hers too.

Anyone can go on OLD and not be too fussy and walk away with a gf tomorrow, but you are very fussy so the road is long and arduous.

Keep trying.

[Foxhall]

Good point from Elaine there,

 

that is the way most women see the online dating scene which is fair enough I suppose, although it can come across as a bit cold from a bloke's perspective,

 

anyway OP, do you ever look at it in a way that you are at least getting dates, you are in the presence of lovely female company and talking to them. privileged to be out in the company of this lovely lady!

 

the door will eventually open for you.

[alphamale]

Your needs are very specific so yes it is always going be difficult, not only does she need to tick your boxes, you need to tick hers too.

 

getting two strangers "on the same page" at the same time is very hard and rarely happens, that's why no one is succeeding

[Normm]

Really have no idea what you expect me to change exactly?

 

I don't expect you to change anything.

 

I went here as me, projected good open body language, she kissed me on the cheek I turned and kissed her properly, I laughed and I smiled during the date, varied the conversation. What else?

 

It's obvious that you do not present yourself in an attractive fashion which is why you continue to fail. Clearly most of the other guys on the face of this planet are doing things you are not, they're all meeting and dating women and many or most are in relationships with them. Even ugly guys, as you have described yourself to be on several occasions. ZA, you are in your 30s and have yet to get involved with any woman, in fact you can count on less than one hand the number of dates that turned into a second one. You need some serious, major help to change the way you carry yourself, the way you speak, the way you move, the way you communicate. You are in no way, shape or form in a position to determine the best "body language" and "form of conversation" and how and when to laugh. You seem to think you do, but when you fall flat on your face yet again, you blame everyone else when the problem is clearly with the person who is looking back at you in the mirror.

 

What's interesting is that you can get women attracted initially- you even had one go back to your place recently. Then something happens and all these women decide they never want to see you again- and they don't even tell you why. They either lie to you or ghost you or worse yet- they block you. Something is seriously wrong here and yet you just continue to shake it off and say "I didn't like them anyway" or "It's unfair that I have to try so hard" as if that even matters.

 

And yet when someone suggests a promising potential solution, such as to speak with a therapist or get a dating coach you respond with "Nah not interested" or "that won't work" (even though you never tried), and you continue to do the same thing over and over again, perhaps with a bit more laughing or a bit more "open body language" and not surprisingly it doesn't do a freaking thing.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Normm

[ZA Dater]

so there is no need to develop anything from her POV.

There is also a continuous stream of new people to explore and time is marching on so...

Next!

 

Keep trying.

 

I don't actually want to anymore when it comes to the last line, I just end up feeling completely defeated when I do find someone I really like. All I want is one good experience, go on 4 dates with me, go to an event, just be nice to me is that really so hard to accomplish. Honestly I am starting to see why gentleman's clubs exist and the purpose of them.

 

Yes, I guess there are lots of people to explore if you have something people find attractive.

[ZA Dater]

you are in the presence of lovely female company and talking to them. privileged to be out in the company of this lovely lady!

 

the door will eventually open for you.

 

I'd rather have no dates than meet this rare person I actually do like and then it all goes wrong. I guess that it doesn't help that at 35 I radiate desperation much like a stone in Dubai radiates heat.

 

Sorry I used to think that was great but frankly it isn't if nothing comes of it, its just a complete waste of time. That's the problem if you are a lovely beautiful lady you have endless choice, if you are a 35yo tall athletic guy who radiates desperation and inexperience then the choice is severely limited.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ZA Dater

[chillii]

l thought l cleared the endless choice thing up for you. lf she did that were any good she wouldn't be single at 35 believe me, or you can just read through LS.

Anyway , l still think you've come a long way from you describing this date.

Maybe take a break for awhile.

[olivetree]

I guess that it doesn't help that at 35 I radiate desperation much like a stone in Dubai radiates heat.

 

Unfortunately you're right, that will drive most people away.

 

What sort of things are you doing that radiate desperation, in your opinion?

[ZA Dater]

What sort of things are you doing that radiate desperation, in your opinion?

 

The fact that at 35 I have never had a gf. The problem is really I don't compete well enough with everyone else because if I did maybe one of the 5 people I have ever liked would have found me attractive in some way or other. The fact none have is indicative of how I cannot compete with the market.

 

Oh and the fact is I am very lonely.

[5x5]

Which reminds me of that old saying, beggars can't be choosers.

[Flame Aura]

It would be great if we could see what happens on these dates.. and get an opinion from the girl.. something like First Dates.. do they have that over there?

 

Or at least a second opinion to see what's going wrong..

[crispytoast]

Honestly I am starting to see why gentleman's clubs exist and the purpose of them.

You'll find the same level of commitment as tinder except you'll get more attention and you might actually get laid.

[schlumpy]

As an alternative to changing yourself and avoiding hours of quiet self refection how about changing your environment?

 

Sign up for dance lessons where you have to hold and interact with real people instead of made up profiles.

 

Pick a sport you like and go to some games. Try local high school sports. Talk to the people there.

 

Take a singles cruise or if you are good shape take a singles trip with other bicyclists.

 

I'm sure you get the idea.

 

Best Wishes

[ZA Dater]

I don't expect you to change anything.

 

You need some serious, major help to change the way you carry yourself, the way you speak, the way you move, the way you communicate.

 

What's interesting is that you can get women attracted initially- you even had one go back to your place recently. Then something happens and all these women decide they never want to see you again- and they don't even tell you why. They either lie to you or ghost you or worse yet- they block you. Something is seriously wrong here and yet you just continue to shake it off and say "I didn't like them anyway" or "It's unfair that I have to try so hard" as if that even matters.

 

And yet when someone suggests a promising potential solution, such as to speak with a therapist or get a dating coach you respond with "Nah not interested" or "that won't work" (even though you never tried), .

 

I have two choices, either shake it off or let it get to me and then I end up in a very dark unhappy place. Its better to shake it off and add to the mountain of cynicism I have because when I hear women complaining about men I take those complaints with a Table Mountain sized grain of salt.

 

All I project is me, I don't conform and I don't pretend to. Yesterday it was pouring with rain, this lady had a shopping bag break, I stopped in the rain and helped her pick everything up. Doesn't make me better than anyone else but it does go to my character which is to help people, even if they don't always treat me so well. Its this character "flaw" which puts me in the dating friend zone almost immediately.

 

In my opinion therapists are the greatest rip off of modern society, anyone can be a therapist, your hairdresser can be a therapist, that person behind the till can be a therapist, heck your best friend can be your therapist and you know what EVERY one of us is different so what goes for one doesn't go for all. I have sat with them, about all I get is interesting debate but very little value, conversely its rather entertaining to question what they say and try to actually equate it to ones own situation, which mostly is like a 20yo trying to put on socks belonging to a 5yo which is say the advice never bears any real world value beyond the pages of a text book, itself nothing more than the authors opinion.

 

Do you not think its a problem when people cannot be honest? Heck text me and tell me you don't want to see me, how difficult can that be? Block me I don't care, it says more about that persons own manners than about me.

 

Does my lack of positive experience bother me, yes it does. Should it bother a date, really should it and if so why? Oh yes, because they can judge me but I cant judge them?

 

You tell me if you can change everything about yourself as you suggest I do? I'd wager if you were honest you would say you couldn't. Change for change sake? There is no purpose to it at all, its like saying, wear a brown t shirt and a blond will land in your lap, nonsensical at best and deluded and worst. I have to see some sort of benefit to change and there isn't one then why change, I'll change a budget if I think there is more value to be obtained, I'll work a deal different way if I can anticipate a better mutual outcome. Remember I tried a make over twice and that did nothing at all.

 

So yes while some of the issues might be inherent to my personality and outlook I don't believe they are so fundamental to have had no success at all then again I don't know what women want but what I do know is they don't want me.

 

At the end of the day all I am doing is trying to find scraps of success because the cake was eaten a decade ago. In many ways this lady was everything that I like and want.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Doesn't make me better than anyone else but it does go to my character which is to help people, even if they don't always treat me so well. Its this character "flaw" which puts me in the dating friend zone almost immediately.

 

This is absolutely false. Women aren't ghosting you because you're the type of person to help a woman with her broken grocery bag! I don't know when men will get it into their heads that women are not rejecting men for being too nice.

[ZA Dater]

I don't know when men will get it into their heads that women are not rejecting men for being too nice.

 

So do tell us why women reject nice men? What did I possibly due to get ghosted? Why cant women be honest with men?

Edited July 4, 2019 by ZA Dater