Really good date

[ZA Dater]

What differences are you willing to compromise on?

 

Differences as in? Hate to say this but I basically know within 10 minutes if I like the person, people don't need to sell themselves to me I simply go on feel and how they come across, she came across amazingly, really from minute 1 I was intrigued and challenged which was really awesome. There was class and sophistication, she spoke well, had worldly knowledge and I could actually sit there and converse meaningfully.

 

I just think its a pity it seems even friend zone is asking too much here but then again I actually don't know what she is actually looking for. This is the other problem I have and its a fundamental one, I never know what these people are actually looking for, I know what I am looking for but figuring out what they are looking for...

[LivingWaterPlease]

each day I just become that bit more cynical, that bit more jaded to the whole idea, see I don't look at the small stuff but when I read here that one can be friend zoned with replying too quickly then I metaphorically throw my hands up and just wonder why I bother if people take such trivial stuff to any level of importance..

 

In a nutshell:

 

Cynical and jaded are not trivial attributes, ZA.

 

Your statement above is the crux of your problem.

 

You're going to have to find something you excel at and find joy in before you'll be successful at dating. Not something you enjoy. Something you find true joy in. Until you're optimistic and upbeat about life you're going to continue being a loser at dating.

 

You may be trying to mask your negativity when you go on a date but you really can't do that because it will show forth in ways you can't anticipate.

 

You must have an enthusiasm for life. Your threads are all so negative.

 

You may respond that you know men who aren't joyful about life or upbeat that are successful with the women they choose. Forget that. YOU, ZA, need to find positivity and joy in life unrelated to women.

 

I'll bet you'll ignore this, though. On another thread, I believe, I suggested you, at the end of the day, every day for thirty days, write down ten things you're thankful for. Ten small things.

 

You never responded or addressed it. Why? I don't know. But you know the answer to that. Somehow you may consider it to be unsophisticated, or not intellectual enough. Or are you just in such a state of negativity that it would rub you the wrong way to write ten things you're thankful for each day?

[littleblackheart]

You are feeling dejected and it's setting you back, I get that. You really liked this person - I can see it's difficult to let that go.

 

The truth is, all I can personally offer is that I realise how frustrating it must be for you not to be getting that little bit of happiness that you seem to crave.

 

I wish there was a way for you to be able to put things in perspective - yes your situation is not an easy one to be in, but by all accounts you are healthy, have a nice lifestyle and have a job brings you satisfaction. These are all good things too.

[ZA Dater]

You may be trying to mask your negativity when you go on a date but you really can't do that because it will show forth in ways you can't anticipate.

 

You must have an enthusiasm for life. Your threads are all so negative.

 

I'll bet you'll ignore this, though. On another thread, I believe, I suggested you, at the end of the day, every day for thirty days, write down ten things you're thankful for. Ten small things.

 

 

I actually do as you suggest often. Most days I start off thinking about the good I have in that day for perspective my days are typically manic 12 hour marathons of many different things.

 

You are partly right but the thing is I always miss the same component and its difficult to find a substitute for it, I have an inherent curiosity for example as to what it would actually be like to date someone, that doesn't go away, sure I find ways of working around it, for example K but away from any working capacity I don't see her, she has nothing to do with me, so its not as if I have friends to fill that void either.

 

Success excites me, I chase it everyday and each day is working against the odds to accomplish something. There are no free lunches or easy days in other words.

 

Credit to you a few things in your post have been mentioned to me before by some people who do know me very well.

 

Dating has NEVER provided any wins, its never provided and useless feedback and honestly its a completely joyless experience, I'll have the odd very rare great date but look what happens. So for me I bury myself in work and find some solitude there and I can ignore the fact I am single, ignore the fact I haven't had sex, ignore the fact I haven't had a vacation with anyone etc. But I cant, each day one or more of those things is thrown into my face.

 

I have a lot to give, people here wont believe it but I do, when people need things I am always the first to volunteer, I don't mind giving, in fact I like giving, I like helping. I am thankful I can do these things, thankful I can run, thankful I have mobility, thankful I get to do some amazing things from time to time, thankful I live in a beautiful city, thankful I have a job that challenges me, thankful that most of my family is still around, thankful that in some respects I do live a dream.

 

I'd be happy if this girl was simply my friend, honestly I would be, a lot of that void would go away.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I don't think you answered my question about whether or not you've ever asked a woman to give you feedback about why she isn't romantically into you? Do you want to know what "it" is?

[chillii]

Differences as in? Hate to say this but I basically know within 10 minutes if I like the person, people don't need to sell themselves to me I simply go on feel and how they come across, she came across amazingly, really from minute 1 I was intrigued and challenged which was really awesome. There was class and sophistication, she spoke well, had worldly knowledge and I could actually sit there and converse meaningfully.

 

I just think its a pity it seems even friend zone is asking too much here but then again I actually don't know what she is actually looking for. This is the other problem I have and its a fundamental one, I never know what these people are actually looking for, I know what I am looking for but figuring out what they are looking for...

 

 

 

 

l always think that question is a bit silly because 9 times out of 10 they're simply looking for the same thing most people are looking for. Hopefully to fall in love and into a great lifelong relationship with all the things that come with it.

lt's as simple as that.

Not too many at that sort of age are just out here playing around .

As far as who and what , we can't make ourselves into the who and what she or he wants so if that's just not there for them then that's just that.

Unfortunately you saw lots of things about her that were just there for you but she hasn't seen the same back so that's really all there is to it.

There's no changing it , if it ain't it just ain't.

But that doesn't really mean that much it's unfortunate, but still it happens to everyone. The next one or the next , does see what he or she like in a person, that's just how it works.

Just finding the both way thing is the tricky part for anyone, even for her obviously, so you know.

Edited July 5, 2019 by chillii

[Foxhall]

if you are a 35yo tall athletic guy who radiates desperation and inexperience then the choice is severely limited.

 

 

well if you focus on the first half of the sentence above- ditch the second part,

 

also did I read that you are telling dates that you are lonely and inexperienced,

and that you respond to texts straight away-

 

you need to portray the exact opposite of this - lol its all BS at the end of the day,

and change this texting habit- keep them guessing.

 

maybe down the line when you bond with someone- you can divulge these inadequacies but not from the get go.

 

you are not that uninteresting either, for instance on this forum even, your threads seem to generate the most interest of all,

[Normm]

You gave up a long time ago... you just didn't realise yet.

 

 

Disagree. ZA has been trying to date for years. He continues to fail because he doesn't have a clue as to how to meet and keep a woman and isn't interested (or more likely is afraid) of making big changes in his approach that can only be done effectively with expert guidance.

 

 

At least now I can walk around bitter about dating with fair justification for doing so.

 

 

Hey if it helps you sleep at night. Blame whoever you want. See how far that doesn't get you. While you're complianing, the rest of us are getting laid.

[ZA Dater]

While you're complianing, the rest of us are getting laid.

 

Good for you. Seems to be the be all and even all for most people at dating it seems.

[ZA Dater]

well if you focus on the first half of the sentence above- ditch the second part,

 

also did I read that you are telling dates that you are lonely and inexperienced,

and that you respond to texts straight away-

 

you need to portray the exact opposite of this - lol its all BS at the end of the day,

and change this texting habit- keep them guessing.

 

maybe down the line when you bond with someone- you can divulge these inadequacies but not from the get go.

 

Irrelevant because nobody I want wants to bond with me. I see no issues in replying to texts instantly why because if I don't Iikely to forget to reply at all.

 

I don't need to divulge anything they pick it up instantly. One girl this year admitted I needed experience and I told her nothing at all.

 

Keep them guessing about what, I like someone I tell them so.

[JuneL]

Why didn’t this lady give you a chance? Because she has much better options, better to her anyway.

[schlumpy]

Hey ZA,

How about group dating where you just go out with people you know and have fun. You don't have to go clubbing or drinking. Go bowling or the equivalent in S. Africa or how about some Frisbee Golf of just plain frisbee at the park?

 

Also, broaden your dating base by dating women that you may at first not have feelings for. Once you get behind the wall that everyone puts up, you may find some aspects and interests in your life that will change your mind.

 

Best Wishes

[ZA Dater]

Why didn’t this lady give you a chance? Because she has much better options, better to her anyway.

 

Why meet up in the first place then?

[JuneL]

Why meet up in the first place then?

 

I can’t believe you’re asking this question!

 

Meeting someone in person tells you so much more about the person than chatting online.

[ZA Dater]

 

Meeting someone in person tells you so much more about the person than chatting online.

 

Well we got along well in person so must have been lack of physical attraction.

 

The day before she couldn't wait to meet me so.

[Normm]

Good for you. Seems to be the be all and even all for most people at dating it seems.

 

It's not about me. My point was that it's about YOU.

[ZA Dater]

with expert guidance.

While you're complianing, the rest of us are getting laid.

 

Expert advice, thanks I needed a laugh today. Must be the same unregulated subjective "expert" advice one finds in books about dating, funny that none of these people are ever prepared to offer any sort of guarantee in respect of their so called "expert" advice. Oh no, its best to bill the client forever and ever in the hope so desperate client is lead to believe un proven unregulated advice is the solution for all their problems.

 

Another thing, how many of these self appointed experts actually practice what they preach and enjoy any success with it? I have read enough of the self help trip to determine the people on this forum possess a far superior level of wisdom than these self appointed experts many of which wont open their own lives up.

 

No, what irritates me about this entire saga is I still don't know what the issue is. I am trying to think of some fairly polite way to try and find out what it is. Was she only looking for a hook up? What was she looking for? I cannot read women at all.

 

My approach is to try make them laugh, put them at ease, ask about them, take an interest in them BUT it never ever works so what do they actually want. About now someone will chime it "you must make them feel special" by doing what? Honestly no women ever made me feel wanted, some dates were more akin to me on a selling spree for IKEA such was the extent I needed to try and sell the conversation to get anything out of the experience.

[Normm]

Expert advice, thanks I needed a laugh today. Must be the same unregulated subjective "expert" advice one finds in books about dating, funny that none of these people are ever prepared to offer any sort of guarantee in respect of their so called "expert" advice. Oh no, its best to bill the client forever and ever in the hope so desperate client is lead to believe un proven unregulated advice is the solution for all their problems.

 

Have you ever actually sat down with a therapist? Or does all your knowledge about counseling come from the internet? Is it any worse for a client to sit in the office of a therapist getting billed forever as compared to.. going on useless first dates one after the other always wondering what went wrong and getting your only feedback from a handful of anonymous internet strangers of unknown experience?

 

No, what irritates me about this entire saga is I still don't know what the issue is.

 

You don't know the answer because you aren't really looking for answers. You continue blaming everyone else for your failures. "It's not my fault, I'm tall and athletic and a nice guy!" Except when you say you're ugly and no one likes you.

 

I am trying to think of some fairly polite way to try and find out what it is. Was she only looking for a hook up? What was she looking for?

 

Doesn't matter if she was looking for company, sex, or a potential relationship partner. After one date with you she knew you weren't what SHE was looking for.

 

I cannot read women at all.

 

Yes that's true. And going on one useless non productive first date after another while taking advice from an obscure internet relationship message board isn't going to make you any better at reading women.

 

My approach is to try make them laugh, put them at ease, ask about them, take an interest in them BUT it never ever works

 

Your approach is a failure. But I think we know that by now. You cannot simply change the things you say, or laugh a bit more or act more relaxed and less desperate and expect women to suddenly want to be with you.

 

You need some serious help dude. More than you'll get from self help books and internet forums. All these failed first dates are only teaching you to be bitter and making you more dejected and desperate. They aren't productive.

[JuneL]

If I were you, I would send her a message, as sincerely as possible, asking for your honest feedback. Let her know that you wouldn’t take her constructive criticisms personally, and that you wouldn’t bother her again after this. Most people would probably sugar coat a bit, but I’m sure you can still learn quite a bit.

 

There’s a chance she won’t respond. But what do you have to lose?

[ZA Dater]

Have you ever actually sat down with a therapist? .

 

At least first dates I can sit in different places with different people and realise the sort of people who do not interest me. No maybe one day a women will actually think ok he isn't that bad, lets actually engage with him and give him a chance, heck its been early 20 years but a guy can hope I guess!

 

My approach is authentically me, not some sham devised to trick women, not some charade devised by some therapist sitting on the 20th floor of an obscure building in LA. The results of my approach may indicate failure but you know what I'd rather fail at being me than succeed at being someone that does not encompass my own morals and values.

 

Yes I have sat down with therapists and found their prescriptive impractical and irrelevant advice completely pointless when removed from the world of text book theory being it has zero practical value. Zero as in nothing at all. Sure in theory it makes lot of sense in practice it simply does not work because no two people are the same and this applies equally to so called dating experts, one of which I actually went to a restaurant with, he told me he could get any women in the place to give him his number. He could not when I challenged him to do so.

 

Its nauseating to sit in a restaurant and listen to some guy spin such a lot of utter nonsense in the hope he will be taking said date home for a lay later. Likewise the ridiculous charm, why, why result to this, women make no effort at dating, absolutely none, they just turn up and them well sit and then think and then well evaluate and then well its either see him again or never speak to him again.

[ZA Dater]

There’s a chance she won’t respond. But what do you have to lose?

 

Sure I have done this in the past and had a whole array of wishy washy answers most of which go along the lines of "well you need to gain experience" the other was "well you need to change and evolve" when I asked what you suggested I evolve to, well that conversation died quickly.

 

Frankly I can respect someone who is bluntly honest and I make that clear to everyone I meet be it socially or in business, mind you I interact more in the latter than the former.

[Normm]

At least first dates I can sit in different places with different people and realise the sort of people who do not interest me.

 

ZA that's not important now. We ALL meet tons of people when we date that we aren't interested in. Only a small percentage of first dates ever make it to a second because most of the time there is no click. You've already met a few women who interested in you but they ghosted you. Your problem isn't giving women who interest you, as percentages go your experiences are about right. Problem is not one of those potentials had any interest in YOU.

 

Yes I have sat down with therapists and found their prescriptive impractical and irrelevant advice completely pointless when removed from the world of text book theory being it has zero practical value

 

Lots of bad therapists out there. Some good ones as well. You give up too easily.

 

dating experts, one of which I actually went to a restaurant with, he told me he could get any women in the place to give him his number. He could not when I challenged him to do so.

 

Scammer not a bonafide dating coach. Too bad, that experience cost you more than the wasted money he took from you.

 

women make no effort at dating

 

Sure they do. Just not with you after they meet you.

[Flame Aura]

ZA if you come across half as negative on your dates as you are in this thread then it is no surprise you can't get past a first date.

[basil67]

No, what irritates me about this entire saga is I still don't know what the issue is.

 

I've been telling you and telling you: You're not casting your net wide enough. In other words, your preconceived ideas of who you are attracted to are too narrow. NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO DATE SOMEONE YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN, but at least acknowledge that your chances are lower with a smaller net.

 

You've made it clear over the years that you won't date a single mother. Yet my sister had three young kids when she met her now husband. He and the kids got on so well that they've each had their names legally changed to his as they've come of age. They have a love story which can never be yours because you wouldn't try it.

 

I've seen you paint single mothers as not being particularly intelligent or perhaps low socioeconomic (paraphrasing - please correct me if this isn't what you think) but there would be many who are divorced who are educated and work hard.

 

Again YOU DON'T HAVE TO DATE THEM, but a lot of the answer to why you're single is simply because you are rigid in what you're attracted to.

[basil67]

ZA if you come across half as negative on your dates as you are in this thread then it is no surprise you can't get past a first date.

 

Indeed. When I was reading about ZA's recent date, I thought "Yay, he's found a woman who's social skills he's attracted to. If he can find one, then there's got to be more out there". But instead of also seeing the positive the next post of ZA's was negative.

 

Positive people will have positive outcomes. This is largely because they can see the positive aspects of a lot of situations. Negative people will have negative outcomes because of the outcomes they subscribe to the situation.