Decision Making

[uleryrns]

Hello, I am curious how married couples deal with decision making in their marriage. And more specifically, how do you apply the whole Biblical aspect of Headship and Submission?

 

I know what the bible says about the husband being the leader and ultimately, at an impasse, the decision maker...but I'm curious what decisions does he decide? All of them, at every impasse, no matter how big or small the issue?

 

Or is it just the big ones, that affect the finances or the family as a whole?

 

The reason I ask is this:

 

My niece is getting married @ New Years in another state. My whole family is going (my parents, my brother, etc). My 3 kids and I would love to go. But my husband is unable to get the time off work. My kids will be on school break and I have the time I can take off. My parents offered to pay for all expenses, except food, which we'd be paying for no matter where we were.

 

My husband does not want us to go. At first it was financial, until he found out my parents were covering costs. Then it became about church, because he's a Traditional Catholic and didn't want the kids missing any Days of Obligation. But I explained we are traveling after and will be home before, any of those Days. And my nieces wedding is on Sunday in a Catholic church (not the same traditional one as my husband) and I already called my husbands Priest and explained the situation and he told me since the wedding is in a Catholic church and will have a mass, the Sunday mass obligation is covered. He did not ask what church it was in, or what kind of Catholic she was, etc...he just asked if there was a mass and said it was ok.

 

After writing down his reasons (5 pages later) he read what he wrote. (I have outlined them as follows):

1) Putting miles (2400 roundtrip) on my van, tire wear, general wear/tear on vehicle, etc.

 

Not that I should have to justify or counter argue this, but my van is a 2015 with 35,000 miles on. It is a vehicle in both of our names, but it is my van, that I solely drive. I've had it 3 years and basically put a little over 10k a year on it, which is less than the average driver. 2000 miles is a drop in the bucket, and won't affect the tire wear or other wear/tear on the vehicle. I'd understand this argument, and give it the tiniest of weight, if my car were older and had maybe @ 100K miles on it or more. Otherwise, this is just petty, IMO. And I shouldn't be told what, where or when I can drive my vehicle. I'm an adult for petes sake.

 

2) Traveling in general - time of year, crowds, traffic, weather conditions, etc. He is worried because it's during holiday season, that it'll be too busy and too much traffic, and the roads will be unsafe.

 

Another point I believe he's pulling out of his backside, that I don't think I should have to counter argue...but to be fair, I'm going to Texas (from AZ). The average low during December in TX, is 64. There is rarely ever any snow or serious weather conditions, except rain. I think, as an adult who has been driving for 34 years, that I can handle driving in a bit of heavy traffic and rain. That doesn't bother me and I'm a pretty good driver. And we're driving on major highways, not piddly dink roads or freeways. I do not believe the traffic or crowds are going to be as horrific as he imagines. But this is a man who hates to travel, hates road trips, hates driving long distances, hates crowds and hates traffic personally, so go figure this is his argument. None of that bothers me, and in fact I'm looking forward to it immensely. And so are the kids, I might add. As well, I'm driving with my brother and his family in my car, and my parents will be in their car. So I won't be alone out there on the roads. If I can't travel and be safe with my own family, who can I be safe with?

 

At this point, I'm feeling insulted from the first two "concerns", because I feel he's telling me I'm a bad mother, and he doesn't trust me to take care of our children properly or that I am capable of driving my vehicle long distances. Note, in all the road trips we've ever taken, I am the main driver in each of those incidents. And I've driven with him, in rain, snow and sleet, better than he would have, according to his own words.

 

3) Finances - doesn't believe that my family is paying for everything but food. Wants solid proof and evidence that that is the case.

 

Now I'm not just insulted, I'm getting angry, at these stupid arguments and demands. I already told him the deal, I shouldn't have to get it in writing from my entire family before he "lets me" do something. After 20 years of marriage, my word, should be enough and I've never given him reason to not trust my word.

 

4) Religion - thinks my nieces wedding is heresy, because she's not the same Orthodox Vatican 1 Catholic as he is and that her marriage is evil and in line with the illuminati and as a God fearing, religous man, it is his job to keep his children from such evils and will not allow them to be a part of such an evil heretic wedding.

 

This line is what made my blood boil. How dare he? Again, with the religious guise.

 

Forget that it is MY family he's talking about. Forget that it's something that matters to me a great deal. Forget even, that I'm a good mother and a good wife. All of his reasons listed above, are exactly why I want to separate from this man. Because it's always about him. Always about his needs, his wants, his desires, his opinions, his feelings. ALWAYS. And he doesn't even see it.

 

For years, I have had these issues with him. And I have posted on this board about them, as well, seeking advice then. His first instinct whenever my family invites us to do something or go somewhere, is always NO. Without any details or information, his automatic response, is just NO. Even after details are given, he always always objects and creates a huge fight over it. Not once, that I can recall, in the last 15 (of the 20 years of marriage), has he just said, if it's something that makes you happy, we can afford it financially and you have the time off, I want you to do what makes you happy, honey. He used to, when we first got married. He was ok with donig things. I know he has issues with my dad and they don't get along, but even if it's an event he can't go to...he still denies me the ability to go, when I am free, we can afford our part and there's no other reason not to go. He comes up with reasons...usually ones, like the ones listed above, where he says so, so that's it.

 

If tables were turned, while I would not like being left behind, if I knew my husband and kids really wanted to go and his family was paying for all expenses, I wouldn't stop them from going and having a good time and I'd actually appreciate the "me time".

 

And quite honestly, after years of going through this argument, over EVERY invite from my family, with him, I'm OVERWHELMED with resentment and a great animosity against my husband because I feel like his "decision making" is more of a lordship over me, because of how he handles any decisions he makes. He makes it a big ordeal, thumping me (not literally) over the head with the Bible and how it says husband take the lead, and wives must submit, yadda yadda... And to add in, he's a very selfish person, and has been our entire 20 years together...so I don't believe his decisions are Godly, or selfless, at all, I truly think he makes these decisions for what HE wants, what HE needs and what HE desires, more than anything. And to prove my point, in discussing it and letting him know my reasons, wishes, desires and counsel on going to this latest event with my family, and telling him how I feel, how I've been feeling (not just over this one instance) and that I feel like he is controlling and not being, nor do I feel like he is doing his part, when it comes to Biblical submission to me or sacrificing and laying down his life for me. And all I get back is, him telling me that I'm a feminist, and I just don't want to do what I'm told.

 

Um, if it's not a control issue, why is it so important that I do what I'm told? Why is it so important that I submit to him, but he never has to submit to me? Because he never has submitted to anything I want to do. Not once. Whenever we go on a trip or do something, just us (our family), I will suggest ideas and he will ALWAYS negate them and say no to them, and then say we'll do what I want and next time, we'll do what you want. Of course, next time, it's still HIS way. Every. Time. And he refuses to acknowledge this. It's why I have such a problem, submitting now, to this trip. I feel if I back down and submit to him not wanting me to go, it's enabling this power trip he has over me. And there is no way, no how, that I would believe that this isn't a control issue and that its truly in mine and my kids best interest to stay home over and not go on the trip.

 

Ugh...I'm frustrated. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. Please let me know in your family, what you would do or how you have handled this type of situation?

[d0nnivain]

Since your husband is so all-fired Catholic go to your parish priest & get him to talk some sense into your controlling, mean-spirted, selfish, decidedly unchristian husband.

 

FWIW I'm a cradle catholic. Tell your myogenetic husband to go re-read all of the Epistles. The reason St. Paul starts every letter with "Brothers and Sisters" is that women are just as important in the Catholic Church as the men. More over ask him to give you an explanation about why Mary is with Jesus to the end but we never see St. Joseph again after Jesus' 12th birthday. All his so called arguments about "headship & submission" will fail.

 

That said, if you are so miserable, go to this wedding with your kids & don't come back or better yet, leave before.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I wonder how many times over human history "Christian" men have used the "leader of the household" argument to get their own way just because they want to. A lot, I'm quite sure of it.

 

I suspect most of this has to do with #4. He can't control these heathens' influence over you and your children when he's not there so he's going to create all the other nonsensical roadblocks. (Source: my own experience with my BIL who lost 10 pounds in a week when my sis and her kids came "home" to visit us without him.....he's an atheist and can't stand his kids being exposed to us horrible Christians).

 

Not gonna tell you what to do, but I know how you feel. My ex-husband was a lot like this (hated traveling, too....threw a FIT when I spent the night in the hospital when my sister was in labor/giving birth to her first/only pregnancy)..... We are now divorced because this behavior spills out into just about everything else, as I'm sure you know. I remember being a newly married young twenty-something and going to a ladies' retreat with our church (protestant). I think the whole issue of submission must have come up because I distinctly remember talking to the pastor's wife about my current "dilemma." Our kitten had to be put to sleep because she was very sick and my husband was refusing to pay the vet bill for it because HE thought it was ridiculous to charge to put a kitten down. (seriously wtf??) I was extremely embarrassed by this and was going to go "behind his back" and pay the bill myself but after being at this retreat I was like, "well does that make me a bad wife???" I paid the bill. And divorced him 14 years later.

[preraph]

It may be too late for you to unsubscribe to his rules, but I can assure you these are not rules most Catholics live by.

[Northdad]

While I cannot provide insight on your exact situation, as it seems so extreme. I can see a common thread in your husbands actions. He needs to be in control. This is a typical symptom of an anxiety disorder.

 

Google generalized anxiety disorders / separation anxiety and the common issue is that the person with the condition tries very hard to control everything, including the future. By doing things that are always under his 'perceived' control his anxiety is reduced. By stepping outside of his safe zone (doing things that others want) creates uncomfortable anxiety symptoms that he may not want to deal with.

 

He seems to be making excuses of why you should not do something without him or that is not his idea. That sounds like anxiety to me (I know - I have it).

 

This is something, that if he wants help, can be easily managed through some therapy and/or medication.

 

As a man it is embarassing admitting that you have such a disorder.

 

Talk to your doctor about your husbands actions / thoughts and they may recommend you bring him in for a quick check up. Sometimes medical issues (thyroid) can generate these sensations as well.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

threw a FIT when I spent the night in the hospital when my sister was in labor/giving birth to her first/only pregnancy)

 

Since I can't edit, I would like to clarify that I know you don't "give birth" to a "pregnancy." My sister's first child was born via a surrogate. Her second child was her only viable pregnancy and birth . And I wasn't going to miss it for the world no matter how big a fit my ex-husband threw.

[Mr. Lucky]

Um, if it's not a control issue, why is it so important that I do what I'm told? Why is it so important that I submit to him, but he never has to submit to me? Because he never has submitted to anything I want to do. Not once. Whenever we go on a trip or do something, just us (our family), I will suggest ideas and he will ALWAYS negate them and say no to them, and then say we'll do what I want and next time, we'll do what you want. Of course, next time, it's still HIS way. Every. Time. And he refuses to acknowledge this. It's why I have such a problem, submitting now, to this trip. I feel if I back down and submit to him not wanting me to go, it's enabling this power trip he has over me. And there is no way, no how, that I would believe that this isn't a control issue and that its truly in mine and my kids best interest to stay home over and not go on the trip.

 

Without worrying about how this sounds, how did someone as considered, smart, (obviously) educated and downright reasonable as you (well-written post BTW ) - end up with someone like him???

 

His power-trip couldn't have sprung up overnight, the roots of this have to extend back to dating and courtship. And I'm going to assume you're somewhat conflict-avoidant, so there's probably a history of "go along to get along".

 

This disagreement isn't about a trip, it's tied to the ground rules for your marriage. So if you want any chance of ever being a equal in the relationship, time to grow a backbone and stand up for what you believe.

 

Pack the car and a suitcase, buckle the kids in and go to the wedding. The next step will be his...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

 

This disagreement isn't about a trip, it's tied to the ground rules for your marriage. So if you want any chance of ever being a equal in the relationship, time to grow a backbone and stand up for what you believe.

 

Pack the car and a suitcase, buckle the kids in and go to the wedding. The next step will be his...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree with Mr. Lucky.

[schlumpy]

Well you convinced me you should go to the wedding. You have the stronger arguments. It sounds as if you will have a good time.

 

Does you husband have survivalist tendencies? Does he believe the illuminati controls the government? Does he tend to believe every passing conspiracy theory?

 

Do you have a pantry full of freeze dried food rated to last for 25 years?

 

He seems to me a bit paranoid and that's not a good tendency to mix with religious orthodoxy. I guess the odds are not good that he will seek any help through counseling?

 

You've lived with this man a long time. Why are things coming to a head now? Why have the strategies you've used over the years to keep the peace not working?

 

 

 

Best Wishes

[Rayce]

Jesus Christ would be making wine for that wedding! He would tell you to go...

 

Peace.