So lost right now.. can anyone relate?

[Lurker123]

1 hour ago, preraph said:

 

Lots of time on their hands.  I don't know their schedules, but it is true a lot of families can't even hardly coordinate vacations when they have to consider school and work

 

This family go on a lot of vacations so spend a lot of time together anyways! MM is still working as well so not sure how much time he is actually spending at home with the family. He even offered to come and see me a couple of weeks ago and has asked a few times since then. I’ve said no obviously. So clearly his family are so important to him that he’s willing to risk their health in order to get his leg over. All of this is such a mess, I wish I could turn the clock back and never have met him. 

[preraph]

It is never too late.  This would be a good time if you're ever going to cut him loose since you have a good excuse not to want to see him anyway.

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, Lurker123 said:

All of this is such a mess, I wish I could turn the clock back and never have met him. 

As Dr Phil says, the only thing worse than sending two years in a bad relationship is spending two years and one day...

[Bittersweetie]

5 hours ago, Lurker123 said:

I do think of this story often @Bittersweetie. I don’t know if I could have just moved on without questioning why. I think I would rather have an argument and have it out than just sit by and not know! 

And here you are, continuing to waste time and mental energy wondering why he acted how he did, what he is doing with his family right now, etc. Do you really want to waste 15 years wondering? Because that's what I did, and it affected my friendships (or lack thereof), my self esteem, my being (of course I didn't realize this until later). After my girlfriend effectively dumped me, I continued to give her power over my life...that's what you're doing by continuing to wonder why he does what he does. What's the saying? She lived rent-free in my head for 15 years. No more.

When you say you need to know why, you are keeping the connection with him in your head. In order to sever the connection, stop asking the questions. You will be okay without knowing why. I am okay without knowing why my girlfriend ghosted me in the early 90s. I am okay not knowing why xAP ghosted me twice. That behavior is on THEM, not ME. Whatever the reasons behind their behavior, is not my problem.

I know this is all easier said than done...but you can get to the other side...I did. It was hard and painful and took time, but I did it. And I'm so glad I stuck with it...letting the questions go took weight off my shoulders that I was so used to, I didn't even know it what there.

[heartwhole2]

15 hours ago, Lurker123 said:

I guess the same thing that holds me back (and I know I’ve said this time and time again) is why did he give me such false hope? Why tell me he’s decided ‘he can’t live without me’ and lead me up the garden path even more so than what he did previously? It just makes zero sense. Why not just accept I want more, he can’t give it to me and then walk away? Again I know others will point out why don’t I walk away, but when everything that you’ve waited for and that has been promised to you feels like it’s finally coming to fruition- it’s tough. 
 

I've read back over all your posts, and I do see that this is a recurring theme for you. I totally understand the desire for other people to make sense -- as a BW I was intensely curious to understand why an OW would want to be in an affair at all because the pitfalls that seem to cause people to put themselves in that situation are not my particular pitfalls -- but what I've learned as I've studied emotional intelligence more is that people have many unhealthy and self-defeating habits and tendencies. You yourself have mentioned being obsessed with the affair and causing fights on purpose so that he will chase you. You know that these are unhealthy and self-defeating but you do them anyway. We need to accept that other people make choices that hurt themselves and others too, and to understand that we cannot make them choose differently; we can only choose to be healthy ourselves and have good boundaries. 

I also think that we lie to ourselves a lot. We all think we're more honest, less vain, less materialistic, etc., than we really are. The really inspiring traits like compassion and humility and steadfastness require practice and discipline. Most MM aren't thinking, "You know what? Imma gonna straight up lie to my wife and some side chick so I can have my cake and eat it too!" [evil laugh]. They tell themselves that what they are doing isn't so bad because their wife turned out to be an imperfect person and their feelings for the side chick are real. He's just as likely to be addicted to the good feelings as you are; why wouldn't he be? But that doesn't make him reliable or self-aware or humble or honest. That doesn't mean he has the emotional resources to handle a divorce.

You say you wish the heart was something you had control over, implying that you don't. May I ask, gently, when you started the affair, if you could have reasonably been expected to realize you were crossing a line? Is every relationship you're ever going to have from here on out going to be at the mercy of a romantic lightning bolt that might strike you and another person at any time, or is attraction to other people (a very normal thing) something you can recognize and manage before it turns into deep feelings?

Re lockdowns and spending more time together, it's definitely true for my family. We all have a ton of commitments and our normal life is very hectic. We've been spending half our week at our retreat in the mountains (which we bought a month after DDay so my husband could show me how committed he was to our future and how much he wanted to spend quality time together), where we've always wanted to spend more time but couldn't before. I feel really grateful for every member of my family and all the quality time we're having together. 

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. These are what keep you in control rather than prey to wayward feelings. And these are what keep other people from harming you. Other people don't have to make sense. None of us do 100%. But this married guy who isn't offering you anything of value isn't someone you need to figure out. You should put that energy into self-discovery.

[lifeoflies]

30 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

OW would want to be in an affair at all because the pitfalls that seem to cause people to put themselves

they dont WANT to be in affairs

[lifeoflies]

32 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

"You know what? Imma gonna straight up lie to my wife and some side chick so I can have my cake and eat it too!"

that is how many guys feel until they end up with strong feelings.  then its pain time.

[heartwhole2]

1 hour ago, lifeoflies said:

that is how many guys feel until they end up with strong feelings.  then its pain time.

In my experience the majority of people don't like lying to others. I know some people are this conniving but others do a lot of mental gymnastics and compartmentalization to keep from facing what they're doing.

[Lurker123]

12 hours ago, BaileyB said:

13 hours ago, Lurker123 said:

 

As Dr Phil says, the only thing worse than sending two years in a bad relationship is spending two years and one day...

A very wise man! And yes... completely true. The winner it is over the better- it doesn’t make it any easier though. Today was even a struggle to get out of bed- I am trying to stay positive for my children, but with no other outside distractions I know this is going to be so difficult to force my mind away from at the moment... 

Thanks again for all the advice Bailey, you’ve helped me more than you will ever know over the past few months! 

[JimmyNorth]

On 7/3/2019 at 2:50 PM, LilKatKat said:

 If they love us (mine said he didn't love her and the marriage was loveless and lifeless), then why are they able to hurt us, watch us hurt, and walk away but they can't walk away from someone they no longer love? 

MM here! Its because we some of us MM's really do love or lust our OW's. We really want them in our lives. Sometimes us MM's have our own fairy-tales on how it will work with the OW. Some of us MM's just feel really bad for our wives because we know that they are not the super hot sexy woman like our OW is, and they will be thrown out to the crappy world out there. Some of us MM's are use to always protecting our wives, but obviously the marriage got sour for whatever reason and we fell for our new exciting OW that treats us like a king.

So sometimes us MM's just take a while to build up the strength to let our wives, who would be sad, go and be free.....even though they may not want to be free.

[JimmyNorth]

9 hours ago, lifeoflies said:

that is how many guys feel until they end up with strong feelings.  then its pain time.

Yes, DO NOT DISCOUNT the fact that some of us MM's can definitely get VERY emotionally attached to our OW. Just because they are with their wives at the moment doesn't necessarily mean they are not "in pain" over their OW as well.

[Lurker123]

13 hours ago, Bittersweetie said:

know this is all easier said than done...but you can get to the other side...I did. It was hard and painful and took time, but I did it. And I'm so glad I stuck with it...letting the questions go took weight off my shoulders that I was so used to, I didn't even know it what there.

Thank you again. I know you are right. It is just SO difficult to accept. I am by nature an inquisitive person, I’m always looking for an explanation/reasoning behind everything and it is not any different with this situation. I know it’s ridiculous to want to know WHY, but I feel currently like I can’t get past it this until I do! I am trying to note what you say though and that actually carrying those questions around will make things a lot worse for me. I promise I am taking on board what everyone here is saying- it’s not falling on deaf ears I can assure you. Sometimes the only place I get comfort is in this board and the replies and support you all give me. I keep reading them over and over again and it is giving me strength- especially today which feels like a massive down day! 

[Lurker123]

10 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

ou say you wish the heart was something you had control over, implying that you don't. May I ask, gently, when you started the affair, if you could have reasonably been expected to realize you were crossing a line? Is every relationship you're ever going to have from here on out going to be at the mercy of a romantic lightning bolt that might strike you and another person at any time, or is attraction to other people (a very normal thing) something you can recognize and manage before it turns into deep feelings?

@heartwhole2- thank you for your reply. This struck a chord. I did realise that it was wrong. At the time I was married and so was he, it was never intended to be more than a one night thing but it escalated and I’m not going to say that it was out of my control, because that’s bullsh*t- either of us could have stopped it at any time- but we didn’t. I guess, at the risk of being cliche, we had a connection that was unlike anything else, we both felt it and I know Mark will say the word ‘limerence’ and I do believe this is a lot of it, but from that first moment we started this- it really did feel unlike anything else and that is the only reason I can give for it spiralling so quickly. Of course now I can see we manipulated each other- I would play mind games with him, in that I would withdraw and wait for him to chase me to make me feel validated. Without that chase I did feel unvalidated- my IC helped me realise that. I know I started the fights so I had proof he still wanted me, in fact I have woken up every day for the last 18 months thinking ‘this is the day I won’t hear from him, this is the day he decides he no longer wants me’ Not at any point during this affair have a I felt safe or secure and nothing he has ever said to me would prove to me otherwise, because actions truly do speak louder than words. I have been through emotional hell these last 18 months, I’ve cried, hated him, loved him, wanted to out him, but above all else I’ve hated myself for being this person and staying on this emotionally draining ride. I almost feel addicted to the drama. I can’t even explain why! 
 

i know you personally were a BS and I can’t imagine the pain you must have gone through when you found out a man you trusted had betrayed you in such a way. I try and blank out BS, I know that sounds awful, but it’s the only way I’ve been able to sleep at night, I know she is fully unaware of any of this. It has been massively discreet over the whole time it has been ongoing. I still believe if he turned round and said he was going to leave her tomorrow, it would be a massive shock to them both and in fact he would never actually leave at all! I’m trying to remember that whilst getting through this x 

[RebeccaR]

I’ve been lurking here a long time, finally created an account. Piecing together some of your comments here and elsewhere, seems you started seeing this guy when his child was a newborn, or even when his wife was still pregnant. You’ve been seeing him basically his daughter’s entire life. What makes you think he’d leave his young family at this point in his life?

[Lurker123]

20 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I’ve been lurking here a long time, finally created an account. Piecing together some of your comments here and elsewhere, seems you started seeing this guy when his child was a newborn, or even when his wife was still pregnant. You’ve been seeing him basically his daughter’s entire life. What makes you think he’d leave his young family at this point in his life?

Welcome Rebecca! Thank you for your post. Would be interesting to hear your story and/or reasons for being here if you get round to starting a thread! 
 

Yes, this is exactly it- the excuse has always been his daughter and that’s exactly what it always has been- an ‘excuse’. Truth be told there are a million reasons why he won’t leave and I genuinely conclude now that if he was going to, it would have happened a long time ago. He won’t leave. Doesn’t make it any easier to accept though, especially when he is telling me the complete opposite- even breaking NC to tell me this exact thing! Why not just leave me be if he knows he can’t give me more, rather than break NC to tell me the one thing I want to hear. It’s just a complete lie and the one thing he knows will get me taking to him again. All mind games. It’s horrible. 

[Lurker123]

2 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

MM here! Its because we some of us MM's really do love or lust our OW's. We really want them in our lives. Sometimes us MM's have our own fairy-tales on how it will work with the OW. Some of us MM's just feel really bad for our wives because we know that they are not the super hot sexy woman like our OW is, and they will be thrown out to the crappy world out there. Some of us MM's are use to always protecting our wives, but obviously the marriage got sour for whatever reason and we fell for our new exciting OW that treats us like a king.

Jimmy- I’ve read your story and you are an exception to the rule- well you were after many years! I understand what you are saying but in my case the BS is not unattractive, unintelligent or old. In fact she is younger than me! I don’t think she would have a problem meeting someone else. I do not conclude that is his reason for not leaving. I genuinely think he loves her and they went though a bad patch after DD was born (most marriages change during pregnancy/with a newborn) and that was where I came in. I was merely a distraction during that time and unfortunately for him became more. The fact I left my marriage and wanted more probably was not part of his plan for what he wanted with me- but I was still a welcome distraction at times and was easy to fit in, didn’t expect a lot and pretty much accepted my place as an OW. I don’t expect expensive gifts, time at weekends or evenings and I never text first. I’m a textbook perfect OW- until I flip out and decide I want more. That’s when I’m told all the BS about leaving and pacified for a few more weeks. Probably worth a flip out every so often in order to keep all that on the side hey? I am a genuinely kind hearted person and give him my undivided love and attention and praise him constantly. I guess I am difficult not to care abut because I wear my heart on my sleeve. So yes I believe he cares about me, I don’t doubt that, but I’m not sure he loves me, and I’m certain he will never leave BS for me. 

[elaine567]

22 minutes ago, Lurker123 said:

Yes, this is exactly it- the excuse has always been his daughter and that’s exactly what it always has been- an ‘excuse’. Truth be told there are a million reasons why he won’t leave and I genuinely conclude now that if he was going to, it would have happened a long time ago. He won’t leave. Doesn’t make it any easier to accept though, especially when he is telling me the complete opposite- even breaking NC to tell me this exact thing! Why not just leave me be if he knows he can’t give me more, rather than break NC to tell me the one thing I want to hear. It’s just a complete lie and the one thing he knows will get me taking to him again. All mind games. It’s horrible. 

You know it is an "excuse", he knows it is an "excuse".
You know he won't leave, he knows he won't leave.
Both of you are willingly participating in this "mind game".
The difference being he goes home to a lovely family life, with a wife and child who love him and you have no-one.
A guy who tells you what you want to hear to get some "extra" is not a lover, he is not on your team, he doesn't want to be on your team, he has his own team.
For him keeping you around is a big fat plus,  but for you it is a big fat minus.
You are not in this together.
Whilst you are starving, he is filling his mouth with cake...

You are choosing heartache, you are choosing upset, you are choosing to stick around knowing he can never give you what you want...
Why?
 

[JimmyNorth]

29 minutes ago, Lurker123 said:

Jimmy- I’ve read your story and you are an exception to the rule- well you were after many years! I understand what you are saying but in my case the BS is not unattractive, unintelligent or old. In fact she is younger than me! I don’t think she would have a problem meeting someone else. I do not conclude that is his reason for not leaving. I genuinely think he loves her and they went though a bad patch after DD was born (most marriages change during pregnancy/with a newborn) and that was where I came in. I was merely a distraction during that time and unfortunately for him became more. The fact I left my marriage and wanted more probably was not part of his plan for what he wanted with me- but I was still a welcome distraction at times and was easy to fit in, didn’t expect a lot and pretty much accepted my place as an OW. I don’t expect expensive gifts, time at weekends or evenings and I never text first. I’m a textbook perfect OW- until I flip out and decide I want more. That’s when I’m told all the BS about leaving and pacified for a few more weeks. Probably worth a flip out every so often in order to keep all that on the side hey? I am a genuinely kind hearted person and give him my undivided love and attention and praise him constantly. I guess I am difficult not to care abut because I wear my heart on my sleeve. So yes I believe he cares about me, I don’t doubt that, but I’m not sure he loves me, and I’m certain he will never leave BS for me. 

I certainly feel your anguish in this situation. But there has to be something greater happening here. So I ask this question...What is it about you that your MM cannot let go of? You have something that keeps him coming back.

When you flip out, he doesn’t run away like most men. He comes back because he does not want to lose you. What could be the reason?

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

When you flip out, he doesn’t run away like most men.

He trusts her enough to know she won't blow up his marriage/life.
He is operating from a position of power.

[Lurker123]

13 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

22 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

 

He trusts her enough to know she won't blow up his marriage/life.

I think it is exactly this. The flip outs are probably tough to deal with maybe for a day or two, but the benefits he gets in return, my undivided attention, sex, love, faithfulness, are a big return for a little tantrum every now and again. Why wouldn’t he want to keep that on the side discreetly whilst maintaining a happy marriage, good guy exterior? Why uproot everything if he can have the best of both worlds? I’m really starting to understand it all now and feel very very sick about it all 😢

[RebeccaR]

Since he does care about her, he probably feels guilty that she quickly left her husband due to the affair and because she’s having trouble moving on.

[Lurker123]

52 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Since he does care about her, he probably feels guilty that she quickly left her husband due to the affair and because she’s having trouble moving on.

I’m not sure if it’s this. I just think he likes the best of both and is unwilling to give up on either. Unfortunately for him- he now won’t have to make the choice as I am Completely done this time. I’ve realised a lot of things over the last 48 hours! I’m going to try and spend the rest of this ‘lockdown’ working on myself so I am ready to start trying to make a life for myself when I enter the real world again. 

[Lurker123]

1 hour ago, JimmyNorth said:

I certainly feel your anguish in this situation. But there has to be something greater happening here. So I ask this question...What is it about you that your MM cannot let go of? You have something that keeps him coming back.

When you flip out, he doesn’t run away like most men. He comes back because he does not want to lose you. What could be the reason?

Jimmy- another thought I have had- usually when we have an argument- he is the one to come grovelling back- usually within 2-3 days. This time- nothing. Something that’s crossed my mind is that in usual circumstances I always think he worries about when we ‘end’ things- I will then be free to go out and meet someone else and I can do that at my own free will- he has no control over that. Whereas now, during this whole lockdown, he knows I’m not going anywhere, knows I can’t meet anyone else- so the risk is low and he may as well keep me hanging and teach me a lesson! Just a thought? 

[RebeccaR]

You have always been free to meet someone new since you left your marriage. Did you make a promise of “fidelity” to him? He himself is in two relationships.

[Lurker123]

44 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

You have always been free to meet someone new since you left your marriage. Did you make a promise of “fidelity” to him? He himself is in two relationships.

No- and admittedly during times when we have been separated I have been on dates with other men and a couple of other encounters. I can’t say I’ve felt guilty about them- but they’ve never felt right and anyway they were not people I would want anything more with. Anytime anyone has shown a genuine interest in me- I compare them to MM I.e. we don’t have the same sense of humour, things in common, we don’t laugh as much, I don’t find them as attractive etc. I guess that’s because my mind has always been consumed with him- it’s never given me a chance to consider anyone else for anything more.