Dealing with open discrimination

[littleblackheart]

Background = I have to deal with various degrees of discrimination / ignorance / alienation often as an ASD advocate. Once informed, people are generally very interested in knowing more and instinctively try to build bridges.

 

Others - not so.

 

Even in a generally ASD-hostile environment when discriminatory or ill-informed comments about ASD routinely go unchecked, I make a point to challenge the status quo regardless of 'pecking order' or how 'nice' the person pretending to be, but of course it's a fairly alienating experience.

 

How would react in the situation? When you know there is clear discrimination against an individual or group of people, do you call it out or pretend it doesn't exist?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

How would react in the situation? When you know there is clear discrimination against an individual or group of people, do you call it out or pretend it doesn't exist?

 

You need to be more specific. What situation? What happened?

[littleblackheart]

Actually, I'm trying to make it a general conversation about whether you would let a discriminatory comment go without saying anything or whether you would call it out no matter the source or the consequences.

[Flame Aura]

No idea what ASD is or ever heard of the term.. google comes up with autistic spectrum disorder?

 

 

Anyway it depends on the context of the comment, if it was at work etc then off course you should call it out no matter the consequence.

[littleblackheart]

Yes, it's Autistic Spectrum Disorder.

 

You say 'of course' as though it's obvious (and it should be!), but when the environment is not open to being called out, and when you see people around you letting things go because it doesn't concern them or it's the boss or it disturbs the order of things, I'm starting to wonder whether it's worth it. It's a pretty lonely battle...

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Actually, I'm trying to make it a general conversation about whether you would let a discriminatory comment go without saying anything or whether you would call it out no matter the source or the consequences.

 

Can you at least divulge what the discriminatory comment was?

[basil67]

LBH is asking if in general we fight against discrimination and ignorance.

 

From an early childhood disability perspective, it could be

 

*Dreadful child in the supermarket was far too old to be having a tantrum (ASD child likely having a meltdown due to problems understanding what was going on or sensory overload). Most ASD parents have experienced being berated by a stranger for their parenting of said child.

*Lazy child in a pram - comments that they should be walking at this age. (Child has motor planning issues or physical disability which means they struggle to walk)

*Child in the classroom doesn't do what they are told/naughty. (Teacher doesn't use supporting visual communication, changes without warning, work isn't of a level suitable for the child)

*Everyone is a bit autistic (no, they aren't)

*he/she doesn't look autistic (tell me, what does autism look like?)

*mum carries the child everywhere - they'll never learn to walk (mum carries child because they can't walk)

 

Yes, I've had all of these.

[alphamale]

discrimination is a fact of life, especially for minorities like me.

[preraph]

I would just say that the above is why most people just try to stay out of the way on behaviors they don't know the cause of or understand and just opt not to deal with it.

[Veronica73]

How would react in the situation? When you know there is clear discrimination against an individual or group of people, do you call it out or pretend it doesn't exist?

 

It’s hard to say. It depends on the situation. And who is involved. And what the issue is. And what good it would do for me to call it out.

 

And I guess I’m not even sure what “clear discrimination” means. It kind of seems that the definition of that could vary by the individual.

[basil67]

LBH, I once completely lost my temper at two mothers who were at their kids swimming lessons. There was a young girl, about 4yo in their kid's class who was clearly distressed to be at swimming lessons. Each week, these mothers would sit beside me complaining about this dreadful child who's mother clearly hadn't given her enough introduction to water. Then one week the child turned up with a pacifier and completed the whole lesson easily. These mothers then complained about how terrible it was that she used a pacifier. I lost it!

 

EVERY SINGLE WEEK THE TWO OF YOU SIT HER AND BITCH ABOUT THIS POOR KID AND THE FACT SHE SHE'S STRUGGLING. THIS WEEK SHE TURNS UP WITH A PACIFIER AND HAS A GREAT LESSON BUT THE TWO OF YOU ARE STILL SITTING HER CRITICISING HER. SHE CLEARLY NEEDS SOME SUPPORT AND IT'S NOT LIKE SHE CAN TAKE A SOFT TOY IN THE POOL AND THIS WORKS FOR HER. THE TWO OF YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT YOURSELVES AND HOW YOU SPEAK ABOUT OTHER CHILDREN.

 

They sat there in stunned silence. I didn't see them again.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Good on you, Basil!

[basil67]

'Clear discrimination' would very much vary by the individual.

 

My son doesn't have the muscle strength to ice skate. But a metal legged chair with no stops on the ends serves as an excellent skating chair which can be pushed around by a support person. The person in the chair can still wear skates and feel the ice under their feet and feel the wind in their hair.

 

Do any of our ice rinks provide this? No. A simple, low cost solution which would support inclusion at the rink, but the opportunity is denied to us.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Sorta unrelated, but sorta related (Basil)....

 

Tonight my 18-year-old daughter was throwing a long fake tantrum on the kitchen floor because the peanut butter she wanted was upstairs in my office and she didn't want to make the long trek up there to get it. After a few minutes she stopped and was like, "Phew! That was exhausting!" I said, "What was, your tantrum?" She said, "Yes.....is that what it was like when I was little?" I told her she never really threw tantrums when she was little, but maybe it was because I acted exactly the way I just acted....totally ignoring her.

 

She said, "What?! Oh, is that why parents in stores ignore their tantrumming children and don't do anything about it?" I said, "Yep!"

 

Hopefully she will have more patience now that I told her that. (She strongly dislikes babies and toddlers).

[basil67]

CO, I think parenting makes a difference - but I would also guess that your daughter was also a really great kid. My daughter is like this too - she's now 20 and, hand on heart, I can honestly say I've never needed to raise my voice at her. Contrast this to my son who's taken me to places of anger which I didn't know I was capable of.

 

Same parent, really different outcomes.

[littleblackheart]

Thanks Basil. I've dealt with all your examples and more too, sometimes on LS...

 

It can be something like 'ASDs should stay among 'themselves' as though we were a dangerous species carrying a contagious disease.

 

Or it can be 'Do we really have to accommodate these snowflakes'

 

Or various stupid comments (can't communicate, they're socially inept, we all are on the spectrum - no, we're not - attributing ASD to someone who is difficult or socially awkward or narcissistic) made with some degree of authority but zero actual knowlege or understanding.

 

It's completely thoughtless, sometimes purposely hurtful, and very often ignored or allowed or dealt with like it's a chore.

 

It's clear that some have no issue tolerating these kinds of behaviour or shrughing it off or accepting it as standard because 'oh well, it happens' without a care.

 

My natural instinct is to say something as I would call out any form of discrimination but my personal experience is telling me it's not always worth it as it seems to be i vain.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

CO, I think parenting makes a difference - but I would also guess that your daughter was also a really great kid. My daughter is like this too - she's now 20 and, hand on heart, I can honestly say I've never needed to raise my voice at her. Contrast this to my son who's taken me to places of anger which I didn't know I was capable of.

 

Same parent, really different outcomes.

 

I can relate! When I only had my daughter I was pretty fond of myself as a parent. My son came along and REALLY humbled me! :lmao:

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

T

Or various stupid comments (can't communicate, they're socially inept, we all are on the spectrum - no, we're not - attributing ASD to someone who is difficult or socially awkward or narcissistic) made with some degree of authority but zero actual knowlege or understanding.

 

My natural instinct is to say something as I would call out any form of discrimination but my personal experience is telling me it's not always worth it as it seems to be i vain.

 

Does it always have to be discrimination, though? Can't it just be ignorance with no malice?

 

My dad died of a massive heart attack totally unexpectedly and I cringe when people make jokes about "almost dying of a heart attack" or "I had a heart attack. My friend's husband became severely disabled from a stroke at age 49 and she's sensitive to jokes about "having a stroke." My mom has had a really bad eye problem/lazy eye since birth, and I'm quite sure she cringes when she hears jokes about people with a lazy eye. I even do and it's not my eye. Nobody has ever said anything in our presence to be specifically malicious. I hear people all the time cracking jokes about eating too much and getting diabetes, and I know people who struggle with this every single day with their kids having it. I'm sure it hurts. How many times do you hear people joking about "being OCD" or "bipolar?" People just say stuff off the cuff that doesn't affect them personally....out of ignorance. It's really impossible to be 100% inoffensive to everyone all the time because we never know what people's triggers are.

[littleblackheart]

This isn't meant to be about how to parent ASD children, really. It's about having to deal with discrimination from NTs on a near daily basis. It can be taxing.

 

I do it at work for colleagues or students, I do it for school for my kid but it would be nice if people made the effort to educate themselves instead of thoughtlessly bitching about what they don't know or letting things slide down to apathy.

 

Ignorance without malice is actually easily recognisable - it's acknowledged and accepted as ignorance.

 

Discrimination is just that. Downgrading it is not helpful.

Edited July 5, 2019 by littleblackheart

[basil67]

Absolutely it can be ignorance with no malice. I think LBH opened with saying about how some are open to being educated and some are not. It would be foolish to be offended at something a person said which was without malice. But when the person continues and refuses to accept that their words are causing an issue and are hurting someone, then it becomes a problem.

[basil67]

LBH, those who would complain about accommodating the 'snowflakes' would also be the first to complain about having their tax money used for unemployment benefits if the person is unable to work without accommodations.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

This isn't meant to be about how to parent ASD children, really. It's about having to deal with discrimination from NTs on a near daily basis. It can be taxing.

 

I do it at work for colleagues or students, I do it for school for my kid but it would be nice if people made the effort to educate themselves instead of thoughtlessly bitching about what they don't know or letting things slide down to apathy.

 

Ignorance without malice is actually easily recognisable - it's acknowledged and accepted as ignorance.

 

Discrimination is just that. Downgrading it is not helpful.

 

I can respect that and empathize. It's difficult to know what else to say, though, without a description of the incident(s).

[littleblackheart]

@Basil Exactly.

 

I am personally happy to go the extra mile and hold an olive branch to someone who is willing to make an effort.

 

But when no effort is made and the same remarks are still being said in all impunity, I start to question the general environment. Hence my OP.

[littleblackheart]

I can respect that and empathize. It's difficult to know what else to say, though, without a description of the incident(s).

 

Thanks. It would be too long to make a comprehensive list but I gave a few examples 2 posts above (#16) if that helps.

[littleblackheart]

LBH, those who would complain about accommodating the 'snowflakes' would also be the first to complain about having their tax money used for unemployment benefits if the person is unable to work without accommodations.

 

Yes I've noticed the trend.

 

At work, even small adjustments (having a quiet room, accepting that some of us won't attend the xmas party,providing special accommodation for our students) is a neverending source of bitching too.