Seeking some guidance...

[JAdams]

I am trying to figure out what to do about a situation with my ex-wife and would appreciate some advice.

 

Short version of the story: married for 21 years, have a son who is about to turn 18. Things were good for the first few years of the relationship but at the 14 year mark we started to have some issues. We separated for about 6 months..the gist of the reason was that I felt completely taken for granted. No intimacy of any kind - and she was always very critical of me for being "not around" when the reason I wasn't was because she didn't have a job or only worked part time for the entire time we were married...and I needed to pay the bills. All of this was really frustrating for me in more ways that one.

 

Anyway, we got back together and things were ok for quite a few years even though she never really let go of being upset about me wanting to leave when things got bad at that 14 year mark. For the last few years of our marriage...we had a number of life events - deaths in the family, a job move for me that took us across the country etc. The roughest to navigate was the death of her mom who she was extremely close to - its been 5 years and the grief is still really raw for her. (Which I get...I loved her mom a great deal and I still feel her loss a lot)

 

During those last few years when things were tough due to all this, I felt like we were not only back to where we were with a lack of intimacy but things actually got worse. She focused solely on our son - and I was ok with that because well...he's our child. But I got really no attention from her at all - and it made me feel terrible and unwanted. I tried to express this to her many times in a roundabout way...which many times just resulted in an argument. At that point, she stopped speaking to me altogether until I told her I expected her to be my wife and not some kind of roommate who I was paying all the bills for.

 

She filed for divorce at this point...I moved out. She got a job...finally. We came to agreements on child support etc - she did not get alimony. She was not happy with the amount of support even though it was privately arranged and much more than the court would have assigned - so she then made it difficult to see our son and stopped speaking to me altogether. I would see him once every 2 weeks. She often took him out of town etc and did not tell me - a couple of times on the day that I was supposed to get him and she knew that...so I would show up. He, being old enough to see what was going on, ended up calling her out on it which created some tension between the 2 of them.

 

Fast forward to a few months later and she starts speaking to me again in a friendly manner. She then met someone else about a year ago...moved pretty quickly and marries the guy after 6 months of dating. Does not tell me about this...I find out from others.

 

Our relationship continues to be nice - I get more access to my son etc. Things are going surprisingly well. I find out some things about her new husband who I have never met but as luck would have it, one of his ex wives works with my company as a consultant. (They have the same last name which is very unusual and that's how I know this.) I have come to find out: this is his FOURTH marriage. Has been in trouble with the law numerous times. Cannot keep a job. Has a few children and does not have a relationship with any of them apparently. Needless to say I really don't feel too comfortable with this guy around my son. Knowing my ex wife - I believe she choose him because she HATES to be alone and was for quite a while - so she literally latched on to the first person who showed interest. This is what her family, who I am still friendly with, have also told me they feel. I do not know at this point if my ex wife is even aware of his history. I assume she must know some but I wonder because...I know her well enough to know that this is a kind of person she would not even be friends with, never mind marry.

 

Now...keeping in mind that they JUST got married 6 months ago - the guy moved out recently. They are trying to "work on things" but that doesn't seem like a good indication to me. She has not discussed any of this with me - this is all stuff that a member of her family has told me. I am not a betting man, but if I was, I would bet that a divorce is coming. Really, this should not have been a marriage, and I'm kind of disappointed that she acted so rashly. This is all very out of character for her.

 

Anyway - about 3 months ago or so she reached out to me and apologized for the way she treated me. She said she knows that most of the reason that our marriage failed was because she failed to "give me the love I deserved" and she was remorseful for that. This is a very big deal because she rarely says sorry or admits she was wrong. (And yes, this was a huge problem in our relationship too) So I was completely shocked and not sure what to make of this.

 

Since the apology, we have been talking almost every day etc and we have developed a sort of a friendship. Sometimes the conversation is about our son, but most times, it's not. For example, she texted me to ask for some advice on a new computer she needed to buy (I work in IT).

 

The way she talks to me now - that's a glimpse of the girl I fell in love with and married. That version is the one that I would get back with in a heartbeat if that was an option. I do still love her very much...the divorce broke my heart and I never really got over it. It's embarrassing to say but it's rare that a few days pass without me not still crying about it.

 

About six months ago, I did meet someone, and we are dating. It is pretty casual - not sure where that will go. I really like the girl but we are not going in the same direction in life so...I don't really see a future there. At least not right now. That's a story for another time.

 

Anyway, so I am not sure what I should do. I want to continue the friendship with my ex wife. I have very much missed that. I have always held out that hope that we might get back together but things are obviously more complicated now.

 

I have been contemplating inviting her out to lunch, or dinner, or something like that...just as a friend. I do miss that part of the relationship too, and I feel like maybe that's a step in continuing to build that. I am really scared to do so because I don't want it to somehow backfire...it took us years to get to a civil place with each other.

 

What should I do...if anything? I am looking to strangers because if I ask friends or family, they will give me their biased answers...and I would like some objective viewpoints.

 

Thanks in advance and thanks for reading my "short" story

[meriland31]

I am sorry you have had to deal with this. It is readily apparent to me, that you value her friendship, but in that, hope that a reciprocated romantic connection is still in the cards for the future. A lot of people dissaprove of getting back with ex's, but I do think it is entirely situational. Sometimes it isn't the person, its the time, place, or event that precipitated a downfall and sometimes, you just need that break to introspect. It seems as though you two have done just that in the amount of time you have been apart. I have known a few failed relationships only to resume at a later point much better and much smarter. Sometimes you need that freshness back, that 'should I invite her to dinner? I really love her...but maybe she just wants to be friends?'. That giddy, contemplating feeling you get when you really want to persue someone...someone who gives you that smile that reminds you of that spark that made you love them. The laughs, the easiness, the openness.

 

Continue this friendship journey and kinda let it evolve. Sure, inviting her to coffee or something is not a big deal. Keep it casual for now, but make it abundantly apparent that you enjoy her company. And most importantly, observe how and what she does for you. I truly think that, if it is going to go to the next step, she really should be the first to say since she was the one that wanted out in the first place.

[PegNosePete]

It's great that you can have an amicable co-parenting relationship with your ex-wife. It is definitely better for your child to have parents who get along well, can talk in a friendly manner, do favours for each other and have each other's back especially where the child is concerned.

 

As for getting back together, if I were you, I wouldn't go there. Things didn't work out for a reason, and chances are that reason hasn't gone away. If you were to get back together then you would be right back where you started, with the same problems you had before.

 

If I were you I would continue working towards a friendly co-parenting relationship but keep some distance. I would not invite her to lunch "as friends", mainly because that's not your true intent. I would also not date others until you have fully accepted that you will not be getting back with your ex-wife.

[JAdams]

Thank you for your feedback. I truly welcome any and all that I get because I really don't know what to do - not a position I can say that I have been in too many times in my life.

 

I have also considered writing her a letter...I feel like that there is less pressure there and it sort of puts the ball in her court as to whether or not she chooses to respond or just carry on like nothing. But I'm not sure about that either...

[loversquarrel]

I fear if not for the failure of her second marriage she wouldn't have much to do with you.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I have also considered writing her a letter...I feel like that there is less pressure there and it sort of puts the ball in her court as to whether or not she chooses to respond or just carry on like nothing. But I'm not sure about that either...

 

"This letter" is what started my exH and I down the road of the biggest mistake of our lives, and that was reconciling.

 

Forgiveness does equal reconciliation.

 

Civility does not equal reconciliation.

 

Don't do it. Leopards don't change their spots.

 

I'm happy to tell you more detail in a private message once you get enough posts to be able to private message.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I fear if not for the failure of her second marriage she wouldn't have much to do with you.

 

Exactly. And then when she decides she does still want HIM after all....you will be dropped like a hot potato.

[preraph]

I'm assuming if you take her back, she'll just quit the job, and that would be a dealbreaker for me. It's high time she worked because she had never done enough of it to even understand the impact it has on a person. So I bet she's tired of working and indeed feeling very sorry for herself. The other guy probably didn't put up with a tenth of what you did. Of course, he didn't have kids with her, so...

 

Honestly, I would just stay single and keep it strictly about the child. Because if you do want to meet and make it work with any other woman, they will not put up with her leaning on you and you jumping when she calls and certainly not you taking her out for any reason. So you need to decide. You know full well she'll revert right back to where she was before. She's just feeling bad for herself right now because of this failure with this new guy. It won't be six months before she'll be right back. And let's say she keep up the sex part -- you already know she doesn't want to do it, so how fulfilling can that actually be?? I say stay single, make her stay away except when it's necessary because you share a child, and have some fun and see if you meet someone. But again, you can't let her back in AND expect any other woman to put up with that -- and yes, I just be she'll interfere.

[JAdams]

I fear if not for the failure of her second marriage she wouldn't have much to do with you.

 

This is what I thought too, honestly. The path to her being much more amicable started before the marriage took place - when she was supposedly happy in those first few months of that relationship. That initially led me to believe that just being happy in general was what caused her to want to mend fences.

 

I mentioned in my original post that I do stay in touch with her family. Her sister and I speak often and while they are not exceptionally close - she lives in a different state etc...they do talk often. She told me a few months ago that my ex wife told her some time ago - before she met this other guy - that she deeply regretted what had happened and she felt she made a terrible mistake. She then said the same thing after that relationship was well underway too.

 

Now, many people who made a regrettable decision would make an attempt to smooth things over I would think, right? Especially if you must deal with the other person because you have a child together. But with her it is not at all to be expected, because it's not her nature. She would rather eat crow in silence for many years than apologize. That's what made her recent apology so shocking to me because it's something I truly TRULY never thought I would ever get.

[JAdams]

I'm assuming if you take her back, she'll just quit the job, and that would be a dealbreaker for me. It's high time she worked because she had never done enough of it to even understand the impact it has on a person. So I bet she's tired of working and indeed feeling very sorry for herself. The other guy probably didn't put up with a tenth of what you did. Of course, he didn't have kids with her, so...

 

 

 

That is a concern I have as well. And it's absolutely true - one of the biggest issues from my end that I was constantly upset about was the fact that she put forth little to no effort to help me run the household at all. For the first few years of our marriage things were tough - and at the time our son was born I was about at my breaking point. Our agreement was that she would go back to work when he was school aged (5) but that didn't actually happen that way. She did have part time jobs here and there but they were low paying and didn't last more than a few months. Eventually I rose up the career ladder and bought out a retiring partner, so my income was more than enough to sustain us without her really needing to work. But that wasn't the point. LOL.

 

Her current work is not a job she can really quit, or at least not without issues. She owns a small business - mind you, one she inherited from her father who passed away. It's not huge and she has a manager who is a family friend and helps to run it. It pays the bills enough to keep her and our son fed, clothed and sheltered and a little extra. She does receive a check from me every month for our son which I know pays for more than 3/4 of her rent...so that helps as well.

 

So in a nutshell, I don't know that she would be so quick to leave that. And even if I were to return to a relationship with her, my deal breaker would be that I am absolutely not going to take on paying all of the bills. I more than did my time with that.

[JAdams]

"This letter" is what started my exH and I down the road of the biggest mistake of our lives, and that was reconciling.

 

Forgiveness does equal reconciliation.

 

Civility does not equal reconciliation.

 

Don't do it. Leopards don't change their spots.

 

I'm happy to tell you more detail in a private message once you get enough posts to be able to private message.

 

 

Sigh. The letter being a mistake is why I haven't already done it. Thanks for your comment. I would love to hear more, yes.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Sigh. The letter being a mistake is why I haven't already done it. Thanks for your comment. I would love to hear more, yes.

 

Ugh. I made a huge typo in my original post to you.

 

Forgiveness does NOT equal reconciliation!! Don't make the mistake that just because you may have (?) come to a place of forgiveness it means you should never have split in the first place.

[JAdams]

Ugh. I made a huge typo in my original post to you.

 

Forgiveness does NOT equal reconciliation!! Don't make the mistake that just because you may have (?) come to a place of forgiveness it means you should never have split in the first place.

 

Thank you. True. That is something I have thought about too. I'm not a person who easily gives up on people - I give lots of chances even when sometimes the person doesn't deserve it. So I guess I am just trying to figure out if this is worth giving a chance to or not...if there even is a chance there.

 

Thanks again for responding

[Mr. Lucky]

The path to her being much more amicable started before the marriage took place - when she was supposedly happy in those first few months of that relationship.

 

JAdams. i wonder why, especially given the history, you equate this with marital success - with you?

 

Your ex may indeed feel some chagrin over her role as your wife. But thinking this equals the introspective 180 required for her to be someone you'd want to be married to is a leap and a half of faith.

 

Like CautiouslyOptimistic, i went back to my wife after a (well-deserved) separation, nostalgic for my son and the good old days. After a brief honeymoon period where she was on her best behavior, it quickly became more of the same dynamic that destroyed our marriage in the first place. One of the bigger mistakes of my life.

 

I'm not going to say don't reach out to her. But if you start down that road, do it for the right reasons pertaining to the future rather than some imagined link to the past. It's a Hail Marry (pun intended ), low chance of success...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JAdams]

JAdams. i wonder why, especially given the history, you equate this with marital success - with you?

 

Your ex may indeed feel some chagrin over her role as your wife. But thinking this equals the introspective 180 required for her to be someone you'd want to be married to is a leap and a half of faith.

 

Like CautiouslyOptimistic, i went back to my wife after a (well-deserved) separation, nostalgic for my son and the good old days. After a brief honeymoon period where she was on her best behavior, it quickly became more of the same dynamic that destroyed our marriage in the first place. One of the bigger mistakes of my life.

 

I'm not going to say don't reach out to her. But if you start down that road, do it for the right reasons pertaining to the future rather than some imagined link to the past. It's a Hail Marry (pun intended ), low chance of success...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thank you Mr Lucky. What I meant was that she started reaching out to me more and being more agreeable when she first got involved with the other guy. I thought - oh ok, now she has found someone else, she's happy...so maybe that's why she wants to start being friendly again. Given her personality that makes sense to me. So I don't think she started being nicer because it ultimately did not work out with this other person. I think she started being nicer because she came to the realization that maybe I wasn't as bad as she painted me to be after all.

 

What happened to you is what I am most afraid of: that if she has in fact changed, that it won't be permanent. I have taken the time that we have been apart to work on my own issues and find my happiness - which I know I am responsible (sometimes that is so much easier said than done). I don't know where she truly is on that subject.

 

I have a good reason for that fear because in the past she did try to make nice and everything was good for a while...but when the going got tough and some life events happened, she went right back to old behaviors. She wanted me to make changes...which I did...but she did not keep up her part of the bargain so to speak. Since past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior...well, you know how it goes.

 

I do think that we could be friends and that be all there is. The part that I am struggling with is, as you said, that nostalgic thing because when our marriage WAS good...it was really good. I feel like maybe it could be again if we were able to let things go and start fresh. I am willing to do that work but...I don't know if she will. The fact that she made such a rash decision to move on with someone else in such an extreme way only to have it all fall apart a few months later tells me that I don't think she's learned lessons.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think she started being nicer because she came to the realization that maybe I wasn't as bad as she painted me to be after all.

 

Understood. But I still don't see any correlation between that realization and the fundamental changes needed to be a successful partner in a relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JAdams]

Understood. But I still don't see any correlation between that realization and the fundamental changes needed to be a successful partner in a relationship...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Oh - right, yes. That I don't know either. Lots of people are nice - does not mean I want to marry any of them LOL.

 

I do see changes in her but I don't know to what extent other than the apology which like I said, was a very big deal. There have been other things too that she's done which I guess you could consider effort - for example she arranged and paid for an activity for my son and I to do for Father's Day which was thoughtful and considerate. In the past she would purposely make it so I could not see him that day or really any other time. I almost took her to court over the things she was doing because it was in violation of the agreement we set up.

 

It's taken over 3 years for us to get to this point where we are today...and I had, at one point, written the idea off completely of any reconciliation. But in the last year, that viewpoint has soften and changed and it's been because I have seen these small things start to be more frequent.

 

It still does not mean she would be an ideal partner. That I don't really know at this point.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I have seen these small things start to be more frequent.

 

Just be aware. It's exactly how I got sucked back in. And, I saw positive changes (and fell for all his BS). The second split was way more traumatizing for me, and also the kids, than the first.

[Peacemaker1]

She is already married, no matter what you know or you think you know about this guy. Just as what mutual funds prospectuses say, “Past performance is not a guarantee for the future performance.” What if she is just the right person to make him change (crossing my fingers of course)? She made a decision and there are consequences and there are things to be respected. If you married a woman and her ex is still pursuing her, how would you take it? Besides, you might end up getting blamed for what bad things might happen. I cannot tell you what to do, but only to consider getting out of the picture, and if they end up divorcing (without any influence from you), then you might have a second shot.

[JAdams]

She is already married, no matter what you know or you think you know about this guy. Just as what mutual funds prospectuses say, “Past performance is not a guarantee for the future performance.” What if she is just the right person to make him change (crossing my fingers of course)? She made a decision and there are consequences and there are things to be respected. If you married a woman and her ex is still pursuing her, how would you take it? Besides, you might end up getting blamed for what bad things might happen. I cannot tell you what to do, but only to consider getting out of the picture, and if they end up divorcing (without any influence from you), then you might have a second shot.

 

Well...he has moved out and apparently for a few reasons, one of which was that he was caught cheating. For a relationship which is that new...that is not a good sign. Her sister was the one who told me this information (We talk regularly and always have - I did not ask about it. She brought it up because she is concerned) The sister also told me that while they agreed to work on things...they are not getting along even with him being moved out. He comes over to argue. My ex wife is leaning towards a divorce but is wrestling with the stigma of getting divorced AGAIN. Our divorce caused a big rift between her and a lot of our mutual friends...some of her family...lots of drama. She is concerned with appearances, which sounds ridiculous to most people but that's just...how she is. This would be similar to admitting she was wrong or made a bad choice...and as I said previously that is something she just doesn't do.

 

My concern with him is really just that I prefer him not to be around our son. He is almost an adult now and can come to his own conclusions...but to have him around this drama between them is not something I like...considering that when we were married to each other we never so much as argued in front of him and were always respectful. I don't know what has been said to him in my absence but I never once said a bad thing about her to him...ever. Even when he expressed things he didn't like or frustrations over things she has said or done. I just don't want to go there.

 

She and I don't discuss her personal life. She goes to great lengths to avoid it, actually. Which is fine...because it's not my business beyond how it affects our child. I don't know that I can really trade places with the guy who is now, counting this one, on his fifth marriage. (He is 40 years old, if that matters) To me that's a giant red flag and not even someone I would date never mind anything else. It shows me that he obviously doesn't take the institution itself very seriously...as is evidenced by the fact that he's already cheated. So I have no idea how I would personally feel in his shoes - but in my opinion this marriage isn't THAT important to him based on what has already transpired.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Your son is old enough to decide where he wants to spend all of this time. Can he just stay with you all the time? I wouldn't want my kids around that either.

[JAdams]

Your son is old enough to decide where he wants to spend all of this time. Can he just stay with you all the time? I wouldn't want my kids around that either.

 

He is welcome to stay here and he knows that. He turns 18 in a couple of months and will be off to college next year - which will be close enough to drive to every day so he is unsure what he will be doing about housing just yet.

 

I haven't made a big deal about him staying with me full time because even just 2 years ago it was a major project to even take him to see a movie or anything "extra". Our son is afraid of angering her - because he knows how she is. When he was smaller he was restricted from speaking to certain members of her family for a few years because of an argument between her and and one of her brothers. My son adores his uncle and that really left an impact on him. It happened 6-7 years ago and he still talks about it sometimes.

 

I have just been, honestly, afraid to do or say anything that might rock the boat and get us back to things being that way again. It was excruciating for me mentally. Now that things are seemingly different, I would like to have a discussion with her about it but am trying to find a way to do that without either throwing her sister under the bus for telling me what's going on, or risk erasing the progress we have made.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I think your priority should be having a talk with your son. He's almost an adult and is old enough to understand that sometimes things go so off the rails in a divorce (even with extended family) and that he should feel MORE than free to spend his time with whoever he wishes.

 

Honestly, at this point, I would not try to engage the ex-wife in these types of talks. She is a MESS right now......

[Marc878]

You know what you had. People of her age may have nostalgic moments but they rarley change.

 

You haven't moved on because you maintain too much contact with her and her family. This is your fault.

 

Go back to that you'll get a repeat.

 

However, it is your life to waste.

[JAdams]

I think your priority should be having a talk with your son. He's almost an adult and is old enough to understand that sometimes things go so off the rails in a divorce (even with extended family) and that he should feel MORE than free to spend his time with whoever he wishes.

 

Honestly, at this point, I would not try to engage the ex-wife in these types of talks. She is a MESS right now......

 

Thank you. And yes...I agree she is. Which bothers me a lot - because as much as I want to say "well, that's not my problem anymore" or pretend I don't care...I do. At the end of the day I want her to be happy even if it isn't with me.

 

I would like to get him to that point where he does feel like he can freely express what he wants to do and where he wants to spend his time to her. It's going to be a bit of work but that's okay. He does tell her often that he loves spending time with me and asks to come over much more often now so we have made some progress there.