Next Chapter - MM & Me

[finna]

Thank you to heartwhole for checking in on me... I decided to post an update on my situation... see my previous crazy long thread for the backstory.

 

After his four week vacation with family MM showed up at the office wearing a new wedding ring (he had not worn one in the time I had known him due to significant weight loss). Despite that, he went ahead with plans for us to meet up, even though I gave him the opportunity to get out of it more than once. I was not strong enough to decline either as I really wanted to spend time with him.

 

I flew in and met him - he had just dropped his wife and child off to fly home and he was in a very bad place... wishing he could be on the flight home with them but also wanting to spend time with me. We went out and danced until 3:00am. We talked a little bit that evening and he basically told me what a conflicted place he was in - loves me and loves his family; such mixed feelings.

 

We ended up spending the next ten nights together - some of which was very joyful and some where he was clearly conflicted about being with me. We parted ways for him to fly home without doing a lot of further talking- him because he said (later) he did not have the guts to bring it all up, and I did not really either- mostly I just did not want to.

 

However, once I left him at the airport for him to fly home, we began texting and having a really good hours long conversation- the type we had very often in the beginning of our relationship. He told me he was not ready to leave his wife and explained a lot about why he had changed his mind. They have started seeing a new therapist who has made them reflect differently and he feels guilty about leaving his son and like he needs to support her because he perceives she has always been there for him.

 

He loves me in mind, heart, and guts but continues to have strong feelings for his wife as well. I asked him why he enjoyed being with me and he said he can be completely himself with me, I challenge his intellect, I take care of him, we are the same amount of “good crazy”, and I am an insanely good f***. He also says that I give him something indescribable that no one else can and that we have something really special. However, he feels right now he needs to sacrifice those things for the obligation to his wife.

 

I asked him what he wanted me to be for him and he said a friend he can talk about everything with. He asked me the same and I said if I’m fully honest I want to be best friends that talk every day, continue to have adventures together we wouldn’t get to do with anyone else, spend time together when we can- even just talking or cuddling, and be extremely discreet lovers.

 

He said he loved all of those things with me and needs to think about how to proceed. So we discussed OpSec a bit to protect everyone and made some decisions and voiced expectations in that regard. He is supposed to return for more business in ten days but we may not be able to be together much because his cousin will be with him (for business purposes). He said he wanted to figure out how to spend some time together however.

 

The whole thing is pretty messed up. We love each other and have said so frequently the past few days. It appears his wife and I both love him to the core and he cares deeply for both of us. I generally take a very big picture view of things and am wondering if his current feelings and state of being is part of a bigger cycle of events- where he eventually flip flops again- or whether he is down the family road for good. I wouldn’t be surprised either way.

 

I get the sense he is almost in some sort of manic limerance / guilt overcompensation with the idea of his wife and family- I don’t say that to be mean or have false hope for myself- it just doesn’t quite jive with the long history of issues and doesn’t seem sustainable with regard to the amount of energy and sacrifice he is putting towards it- he has said things like he feels guilty for having fun with anyone besides his family right now, which doesn’t seem healthy either.

 

I know being caught up in this keeps me from moving on - and I have talked to a therapist. She tells me that I will know when it is the right time to make the right decision- either due to his actions or my own feelings and choices. She says it will eventually feel absolutely right from both sides or start to be icky and either way I will have a clearer path. I actually feel a bit of relief that she is not pressuring me to do something right this minute as it allows me to process and take things day by day.

 

So I am doing my best to be supportive of MM as he works on his marriage and family, and yes, spend time with him when we mutually agree to do so. It feels like a new phase in our relationship- but one where we are being more transparent with each other. Maybe it’s a slow fade to friendship or even limited contact- maybe it’s just another chapter in a lifelong story - I don’t know.

[ScaryPanda]

I think you really have to hit rock bottom for you to get a hold of yourself.. Good luck.

[Amethyst68]

At least be honest with yourself, you know this man is lying to both you and his wife. There is no way he can be working on his marriage while spending 10 nights and making future plans with you. At the same time he's obviously gaslighted his wife enough, take the new wedding ring for example, that he feels secure enough to do these these things with you.

 

I'm not sure it'll make any difference though since you'd previously decided to allow another 18-24 months before making a decision on ending the affair, as per your previous thread.

[Starswillshine]

He isnt in some manic limerance or guilt compensation. He is just a liar. And keeping your expectations in check.

 

Hook, like, and sinker. And now you have signed on to be his OW. Showed him you will accept being that role. He just needed to tell you that the sex is good.

[Daisy2013]

 

So I am doing my best to be supportive of MM as he works on his marriage and family, and yes, spend time with him when we mutually agree to do so. It feels like a new phase in our relationship- but one where we are being more transparent with each other. Maybe it’s a slow fade to friendship or even limited contact- maybe it’s just another chapter in a lifelong story - I don’t know.

 

Why are you going to be supportive of him as he works on his marriage? What about you? Why don’t you work on yourself? The day will come when he is over it and you will be left in the dust. He’s already doing it.

[elaine567]

However, he feels right now he needs to sacrifice those things for the obligation to his wife.

... I asked him what he wanted me to be for him and he said a friend he can talk about everything with.

 

He is in effect dumping you as his OW.

 

I asked him what he wanted me to be for him and he said a friend he can talk about everything with. He asked me the same and I said if I’m fully honest I want to be best friends that talk every day, continue to have adventures together we wouldn’t get to do with anyone else, spend time together when we can- even just talking or cuddling, and be extremely discreet lovers...

 

And what is that?

What would you be?

You would be what you always have been, his OW...

As predicted, he is not leaving, and he has now in addition told you it is over bar the shouting.

[BaileyB]

He likely couldn’t believe his good fortune, you have signed on to be his OW with no questions asked, AND he gets to recommit to his family and enjoy all that life has to offer at home.

 

All will be revealed to you with time. The only question now is, how much time is it going to take for you to accept the reality of the situation.

Edited July 25, 2019 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

He is in effect dumping you as his OW.

 

Nah, he is asking for an EA. He wants a woman who loves and adores him, who hangs on his every word, listens to his his every complaint, supports him at work and in his marriage... But, he doesn’t want to have sex because THAT crosses the line. He is choosing to stay married which means, he has to draw the line somewhere. So, he would prefer to keep an EA to get his needs met, while respecting some kind of boundary with his marriage....

 

The only problems is, I don’t think he will keep to this. It is a slippery slope, there has already been a sexual relationship - what’s done is done and it’s probably not possible to re-establish boundaries related to sex at this point. That’s certainly not what happened last week, when he chose to take what he wanted BEFORE he gave the whole “let’s just be friends” speech...

Edited July 25, 2019 by BaileyB

[Amethyst68]

The MM didn't fireher as his OW he's just lowered the bar on her expectations on his leaving his wife. If he had truly left the affair he wouldn't be figuring out a way to meet when a fault member is traveling with him.

[elaine567]

Bailey, I meant the full OW role, but you are correct any "friendship" from here on in will be an EA.

As "love" is involved and the true nature of the relationship will be hidden from the wife.

Of course sex will still be on the menu, whether he decides to partake or not.

[Starswillshine]

I dont see where he said that the PA was off limits. They just spent 10 nights together. He also told her she was a great ****.

 

Basically, he just made himself out to be this loving amazing man but he just cant help loving OP. He just set her expectations low. That is all he did. "Hey, I love my wife and I'm trying to make my marriage the best it can be. So dont think i will be leaving. Alright? Cool? Here are the rules. Follow them. Now let's go have sex."

[BaileyB]

I suppose I assumed with the whole “I want a friendship comment” that he was attempting to draw a line in the sand. I hear you, totally inconsistent with his behavior the last 10 days and the fact that he told OP she was a great **** - music to the ears.

 

Perhaps, I gave more credit than is deserved. Regardless of what he said, I do think that this will continue to be a sexual affair. It is, as Elaine said, still on the menu and his actions show that he will take whatever he wants with little concern for OP wellbeing.

 

The whole “tortured soul” act seems to work well - he has an OW who is willing to offer everything, expecting nothing in return. No offence OP, but you have really lost your way when you say “I am going to be supportive as he works on his marriage...” If you want to be a good friend to someone, be a good friend to yourself. Set a boundary. Self-preservation is important.

Edited July 25, 2019 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

I get the impression and I may be totally wrong but the OP has him by the short and curlies.

He comes across as a weak man, so in the face of all this pressure from Asaysno, he tries to get away from the affair, but caves as she could blow up his world.

Given free choice he, I think would not have spent the 10 days with the OP, but did so as she was expecting this loving reunion. She had been pining for weeks, he felt obliged... He spent a lot of it "conflicted"...

I think he wants to end it, but like many weak dumpers, ends up agreeing to keep going to avoid conflict.

"Yes, of course I love you... No, of course I do not want to end it..."

(OMG how I am going to get out of this...)

 

He maybe even organised for the family member to be present on the next trip...

[Starswillshine]

I think friendship was made to put constraints on the relationship. FWB sort of thing.

 

My xWH used to call his relationship with his OW a friendship (to her). "I'm appreciative of our friendship."

[Starswillshine]

Elaine, there may be something to that as well. Who knows. The one thing for sure, OP has loosened her expectations. She is in the role she said she didnt want to be.

[LIRR88]

He saids you’re a great f***, that tells you everything you need to know. If he already told you he loves his wife and his family what he’s really saying is I’m not leaving my wife anytime soon and I want you around for sex. This guy is clearly using you. Snap out of it and cut him off, where is your self respect? You deserve better than this A hole, so does his wife!!

[BaileyB]

My xWH used to call his relationship with his OW a friendship (to her). "I'm appreciative of our friendship."

 

It makes the whole situation much more socially acceptable - or at least, that’s the attempt. It’s the same reason why women come on this site and say they are in a “friends with benefits relationship” with a married man - they don’t want to be called the “other woman” or “affair partner.” It’s a very obvious attempt to make a very inappropriate relationship, more appropriate. It’s an obvious attempt to minimize, to make it more socially acceptable.

 

It’s definitely an attempt to lower the bar, to redefine the relationship and lower expectations. This guy has successfully gone from “I love you, I’m going to leave my wife and have a life with you...” to “I’m going to stay in my marriage but I still want you by my side every step of the way...” in a month!! That’s pretty effective negotiation.

 

It is sometimes laughable, when OW come to this site and they are quite indignant - expecting a man to leave his family because he has thrown out a few love words and promised the OW the moon if she has sex with him. But, at least they want more for their life and they are trying (ineffectively) to “win” their man. Here, you have settled for a lifetime as his second choice, taking what he is willing to offer without asking for anything more... That breaks my heart. It is your life asaysno. Your life is what YOU make of it. If this is truly all you want for your life, that’s really heartbreaking. I hope you understand this someday.

[What_Did_I_Do]

And to add to the above posts....he gets to carry on with his marriage, you are shoved back into the shadows to continue longing for a man that will NEVER be yours. If my xMM ever presented those conditions to me, I'd be so freaking gone. Some other fool could take my place.

[BaileyB]

He saids you’re a great f***, that tells you everything you need to know.

 

Indeed, it does.

 

But still, that is music to the ears of the OW. She is BETTER than the wife - he enjoys sex with her more! They also share an emotional connection that he doesn’t share with his wife. She takes better care of him than the wife. They are the “same kind of crazy.” You are on “my side” and what we share is BETTER than what he has with the wife. Winning!!

[Starswillshine]

It is sad that in a lot of cases, it becomes more of a competition to out beat the wife. And as long as she is doing that, the OW is happy.

[BaileyB]

It is sad that in a lot of cases, it becomes more of a competition to out beat the wife. And as long as she is doing that, the OW is happy.

 

And if this is not the case here, the sad reality is that she is really willing to settle for so very little... Asaysno, please know - we all wish you well. We want to offer support but we want so much more for you than this pain... For goodness sake, he showed up after the holiday wearing a new wedding ring and then proceeded to go on holiday and have sex with you for 10 days. That’s messed up.

[Naivewomen]

Are you really okay with him making love to his wife and then to you? Are you really okay with allowing him to enjoy two worlds??? Are you really okay that he will NEVER be yours?

The problem here is you lack respect for yourself so please dont expect him to respect you when you allow him to get away with all of this.

 

You need to set him free. Figure out how too let go!

I wanted to hold onto the friendship forever but its simply NOT feasible. Unfortunately, you will hit rock bottom and its truly one of the worst experiences. You will know it when you get there and its brutal and difficult to overcome.

Please get healthier and stronger!

[heartwhole2]

Thanks for checking back in.

 

It sounds like you like your IC. Are you going to keep seeing her? You have a lot to process and think about.

 

It also sounds like things are pretty much where they were before, with the exception that he's being more honest about his marriage and open to it working out. In your previous thread there were many negative points made about the BW which tied into the idea that the affair was understandable/justified and that he would want to leave for a better/happier relationship with you, but now it seems he's saying positive things and admitting he loves her. If I were looking for signs as to his feelings and progress, I would count this as evidence he's moving further away from a future with you. This is no longer a situation where he's ostensibly choosing between one woman he loves and one woman he's obligated to. It's now a situation where he's deciding between focusing on his marriage or "focusing" on his marriage with a secret FWB.

 

Mostly, I noticed how you are still very, very focused on him, what he's doing, what it might mean. I understand that you are very attached to him, and you have an overwhelming need to be the one to decide if you want a relationship with him. Right now you are an option to him, and you have no power. You feel that you cannot rest or concentrate on what is good for you until you have the power to say yes or no on a relationship with him. Truly, we want what we cannot have.

 

My advice is to keep stepping back and trying to view the situation from the outside. When you start with the thesis of "He loves me and wants to be with me" then you find confirmation in the smallest details. What if your thesis is "He's a conflict-avoidant man who's mostly OK with lying and cheating, as long as it's on his terms"? I see a lot to confirm that idea.

[HowToQuit]

OP - the only way to “help” him to not feel conflicted is to remove yourself from the picture. Create space and distance from him. It will give you room to reavaluate and for him to see how this gap really makes him feel.

Edited July 25, 2019 by HowToQuit
Typos

[lolita888]

After his four week vacation with family MM showed up at the office wearing a new wedding ring (he had not worn one in the time I had known him due to significant weight loss).

I think that says a lot.

 

 

He came back after being with his wife for four weeks. Then came back and continue/restart the whole thing with you.

 

 

He never had plan nor doubts about his marriage.

 

 

 

I think he is enjoying this whole thing. Feeding his ego by seeing how he can play with two women at the same time. Hide it from his wife and keep you interested in him.

 

 

Actually I do not understand how can you still accept him after seeing him wearing his wedding ring again. Because for me, just that action says a lot.