Next Chapter - MM & Me

[BaileyB]

If you really loved him, you’d let him go. He wants to work on his marriage. It’s healthier for him to give that an honest go and then decide what his future should be.

 

If he really loved you, he’d let you go. He’d recognize that this isn’t a healthy situation for you and that you deserve to be with one person who is all in. Who doesn’t need to keep you a secret.

 

But right now, each of you loves yourself more than you love the other person. So it continues.

 

This is bang on!

[finna]

When I read the last point you make - doesn't it make more sense to spend this time (which is a luxury to have, btw, although I can understand how it may feel "empty') working towards a relationship that's more likely to maintain into the future and be "real"?

 

I mean, if you were suddenly hospitalized, how likely is it that MM would have the ability (even if he had the desire) to stay by your bedside, support you in caring for your child, and help nurse you back to health while you convalesce?

 

I think working towards a real relationship is part of what may come. I am currently not interested in even the idea of being with anyone else although I know these things can happen when one is least looking for it- and I’m open to that possibility. Right now there is very little likelihood of that developing organically and I’m not interested in the dating game, hence that part of the future seems very opaque with few possibilities.

 

Regarding something happening to me- it would depend where MM and I were at the time - if we were in the same location - yes, he absolute would do what he could to be with me and help out... as we are LD otherwise the logistics would be a challenge.

[Lylalou]

 

Regarding something happening to me- it would depend where MM and I were at the time - if we were in the same location - yes, he absolute would do what he could to be with me and help out... as we are LD otherwise the logistics would be a challenge.

 

You don’t know that he would be there for you, you can’t think it.

 

I know what loneliness and emptiness is like, my affair was over 6 years, and I miss him dearly, but it gets to the stage that you are better off on your own than punishing yourself with what he’s doing in his marriage to make it work, it’s not a competition and your married man has told you he wants to work on his marriage, let him do that, stand back and stop trying to win the prize. It’s taken me a long time to see that my MM wanted me as a FWB, (he wouldn’t admit that) but he can’t have that, I’m worth more and so are you.

 

I rarely post, just read but you don’t seem to take on board any advice from people who have been in similar affairs who are trying to save you a lot of hurt and pain.

[Naivewomen]

He is still manipulating your mind. He tells you that hes working on his marriage and you are cheering him on.... you know what this really means right?? Hes telling her he loves her every day. Hes kissing her and hugging her daily. Hes looking directly in her eyes and deceiving her by keeping you on the side for a good time.

 

Believe me I know how you feel and so do others on here. Hes convinced you that you are his life but unfortunately he has obligations and responsibilities that take priority. Dont you want to be a priority??

You will be sick of this one day, it will ruin your self esteem and take you forever to trust another man. Get out on your terms not his! It will wreck your soul.

[HowToQuit]

Re empty times ahead...I hear you but all I can say is that you never will get to the next chapter if you do not stop re-reading the previous one...

[PhoenixRising8]

Asaysno, I was wondering the last day or two how you were making out. I'm not entirely surprised you're hanging in there although I'd hoped the 88+ pages of advice had gotten through to you in the last few weeks. Apparently not as you are settling for even less than a few weeks ago. Sad but you have now transitioned into the architect of your own ultimate demise. There is nothing I see that leads to any hope of a happy ending or avoiding serious heartbreak and devastation. Here's how I see some of the elements of your latest updates:

 

Conflict avoidant MM - check. You spent 10 days together and didn't talk. Any conversation you had occurred over text after 10 days of him ****ing you. He isn't mature enough or capable of having a meaningful conversation in person rather resort to teen age like behaviour of dealing with important conversations over text because he doesn't have the guts to face you. To be fair, I think you suffer from the same conflict avoidance issues. My xMM would occasionally shut down but I forced the conversation if it was important. This is not the sort of exchange that is appropriate or meaningful over text. YMMV

 

Wedding ring is a major red flag He told you he wanted to work on his marriage and the sudden appearance of the ring proves it. Maybe BS insisted he start wearing one again but he could have removed it while in your presence if he had any concern for your feelings. Heck, he even told you he wished he had gone with them as he missed them and wanted to be with them! You just accepted that and carried on. If you think he is merely conflicted, I think you are deluding yourself. He isn't conflicted about what he wants ... he is feeling guilty for his continued betrayal but disguises that as conflicted feelings. If he didn't love his wife, he wouldn't be wearing his wedding ring or going to counselling and he wouldn't feel conflicted (read "feeling guilty").

 

You're a "great ***" I see nothing complimentary about this statement. It's demeaning and positions you as little more than an awesome sex toy. You seem to be OK with this. You posted it without any words of outrage around that. If my xMM had said this to me that would have been it right then and there. I wonder if his overt actions of disrespect and disregard for your feelings isn't his way of trying to get you to end it because he is .... and it's a perfect strategy for the conflict avoidant, which we all know he is.

 

As someone already posted, you'll either pay now or pay later. Your reason for continuing is avoiding the blank and empty spaces and having no one else to fill that spot. You won't find that someone while you are with him. Even if you do, I don't think you're healthy enough to develop a strong healthy relationship. You're living for today and tomorrow and soon that will turn into many empty and lonely yesterdays. If you think you can do this another 6, 12, or 24 months and come out the other side unscathed, you are kidding yourself. The longer you stay, the more it will hurt and the longer it will take to heal.

 

Not to hijack the thread but I see some commonality in our stories. I ended it with xMM about the time you posted your first thread. The first 6 weeks were excruciating. I didn't want to be alone. I had nothing to replace him with. The last 6 weeks have been increasingly better because I decided to make a concerted effort to replace his presence with other things and it's working. I decided I wasn't going to continue to waste my days wallowing while he lived his life. I will admit nothing is as exciting as our time together. This summer pales in comparison to last year but by most measures, my life if full. Just normal. Not the highs of an affair addict. On the flip side, no extreme lows either. Was it easy? Hell no but definitely necessary to reframe my thinking for my own well being. Along the way, I'm regaining my self respect and confidence. I don't need him to prop me up and I'm not looking over my shoulder for when he will disappoint me either. I'm also OK on my own. I like my own company. Being alone is better than the push/pull of an affair.

 

I don't expect anything will change your mind but some day you will look back and realize how right we were. You will regret what you did to yourself by continuing and that regret will make the pain that much worse. I still think about xMM because I do miss how he made me feel about myself. But even if he came to me with divorce papers in hand, I couldn't go back. Too much water under the bridge and he didn't treat me near as badly as yours. I don't trust him. I don't think he is capable of being authentic or a good partner without major work on himself. What is there to love? What I have finally acknowledged is my feelings about myself can't be tied to the whims and fancies of someone else. I have to be OK with me: how I feel about myself, whether I like and respect myself, have confidence and don't need someone to make me feel good about myself. I hope you get there sooner rather than later.

 

Good luck.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Welcome back!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I suppose I assumed with the whole “I want a friendship comment” that he was attempting to draw a line in the sand. I hear you, totally inconsistent with his behavior the last 10 days and the fact that he told OP she was a great **** - music to the ears.

 

My xMM called me is 'friend' all the time...part of managing down OW's expectations (and a little self-denial to alleviate guilt about what is really going on).

Edited July 27, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[HadMeOverABarrel]

As someone already posted, you'll either pay now or pay later. Your reason for continuing is avoiding the blank and empty spaces and having no one else to fill that spot. You won't find that someone while you are with him.

 

That someone is herself (first!).

[finna]

@LKKat

 

I am very glad to hear that things are going better for you. It’s nice to know there are better days on the flip side. I obviously still have a lot of work to do to get where you are. I find flashes of strength more frequently now than I once did although it’s not enough... yet.

 

By the same token I am also doing a lot of what you are doing- going out with friends, trying new things, focusing on my job and kid; continuing to live life as full as I can... because when MM and I are not in the same location 90% or more of my day has nothing to do with him.

 

I certainly don’t feel like I need to “find myself” - I am already here and doing my best. I don’t disagree with your point that it was not cool for MM and I to avoid talking last week (although we did have a couple of short discussions early on) - he apologized for that and I own my part as well... but I wanted to “just be” and enjoy the time.

 

Regarding the comments about sex from several posters- I understand how it could be construed, but the way I relayed it here was perhaps not an accurate representation of the intent and tone. In our conversation I had said something similar to him in a complimentary way and he was truly acknowledging his appreciation for that part of our relationship... it is a comparatively small part but important as we have explored and learned much together- I’m not fussed at all about it- we have discussed many times how much we’ve enjoyed that part of the adventure.

[pepperbird]

op,

either the two of you are truly broken, he's a snake, you are engaging in some active wilful blindness- or all of the above.

 

You have developed some really intricate rationalizations to explain why for you this affair should, nay must, continue. You paint him as your major source of support, one of the few people you can count on...fully knowing you can't count on him. You say you two can be fully vulnerable and honest with one another...except you know that he isn't either of those with you, and you shouldn't be with him. The more open you are, the more he can hurt you.

 

Your posts are also full of you talking yourself into diminished expectations from him. If I remember correctly ( and I apologize if I am wrong) he was, and not that long ago, talking about how he was going to leave his wife once she was done school so that she could gt a job and he could pay less spousal/child support.

 

That didn't happen. Instead, a family vacation and brand new ring happened. Now I don't know about his financial status, but to me, getting a new ring would be a significant event, not just an impulse buy. Why do you think he bought the ring? All the alternatives put him in a bad light. He either cares about his wife far more than he's letting on and feels guilty, he's trying to gaslight her or he's just that capable of keeping two worlds going at once ( personally, I'd find the last alternative the most disturbing).

 

Something else I've noticed is that he's been able to cultivate a real competitive streak in you, pitting you against his wife. What a prince! He's got you, an intelligent, accomplished and independent woman competing against a lady who doesn't even know you exist in her sphere of influence, except perhaps as an acquaintance. You're making remarks and innuendoes about her that are barley high school worthy. You're better than that!

 

Honestly, do you really feel the benefits of your relationship with him are worth the drawbacks? Maybe they are to you, I don't know. What I do see is a woman who has so much going for her lowering her standards to be with this guy. The comment you made about how you and MM are both broken people is selling yourself short. You're broken? So am I. So is my spouse. So is everyone. That doesn't mean we have to settle for bits and pieces of a relationship or tie our minds and hearts up into a pretzel for the sake of a bit of human comfort that just ends up leaving us feeling like we need to reach out to an internet forum for advice.

 

It's like selling your soul. Is the eventual price going to be worth it? Only you can answer that.

[Buffer]

What are you thinking?

He is gaslighting you. You are giving him your body, he is giving you a possible STD.

 

Stop this A, now please.

Get IC , go NC and move on.

 

Your heart and mind is in the right place, just not on the right person.

 

You are beautiful, but he is using you.

 

Good luck.

[stillafool]

When I read the part about him having a brand new wedding ring I was thinking that maybe he and his wife renewed their vows while on vacay and that's why he has a new ring.

[PhoenixRising8]

I would bet you are correct!

[elaine567]

Your marriage was failing so you targeted your friend, coworker and a MM, he took the bait, you immediately ditched the "no good" husband in favour of this more attractive prospect.

Your attempt to monkey branch was going great, he even threw you the old "I will leave my wife, but not quite yet...."

Then you decided to increase the pressure as you could not let this one get away. He, under duress, agreed he WAS actually going to leave his wife and thus you would be able to seamlessly move from one man to the next.

 

But he pulled up short, he woke up, he went "Wait a minute that isn't happening"

Since then, it is really about you still holding onto the dream and him trying to fend you off IMO.

Now your "joyful" days are balanced by some pretty awful days as he is "conflicted" and is squirming to get away or he tries to put you back in place as the "fun" fwb, the road wife, or in your own words, the "insanely good f*ck"...

 

The wedding ring was a clear message to you, why you don't "get it", I do not know...

 

I know it is very hard to let go of dreams, but this one IMO isn't ever going to happen, so you need to ramp it all back to protect yourself.

[Lylalou]

Stillafool and Lil, I thought the same about renewing his vows. The ring would have been blind rage to me, I would have walked, no run in the opposite direction.

 

Great post Elaine, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears until OP can no longer take the push and pull, the affair breaks her as a person, her spirit and she realises this MM is no different to any other and will take whatever is on offer until it isn’t anymore, then he will move onto the next victim.

 

I have read these threads since 2017 5 years into my affair, I wanted help and needed it as I was broken but it took another year until I could see that my MM wasn’t the going to be my saviour, leave his wife and live happily ever after. He is a con artist and I believed all his lies. Please don’t think your MM is different because I can assure you he isn’t.

 

I hope yours ends up differently from the normal affair, but could you honestly ever trust him, because he has a flaw in him that thinks it’s ok to lie and cheat on people he professes to love.

[sandylee1]

You've not hired ground zero yet and you're not quite there in terms of self esteem and confidence. With those two things present, being with another woman's husband wouldn't be good enough for you.

 

He played it so well by telling you what he needed from you while he rengages with his wife. He was smart enough not to mention the sex, but you did that for him...by letting him know you were pretty much happy to be a discreet lover.

 

I mean...no way you can accuse him of using you for sex...when you're the one who asked to be on that role.

 

 

You have a son? Is this the kind of husband you'd like him to be?

[Amethyst68]

Your marriage was failing so you targeted your friend, coworker and a MM, he took the bait, you immediately ditched the "no good" husband in favour of this more attractive prospect.

Your attempt to monkey branch was going great, he even threw you the old "I will leave my wife, but not quite yet...."

Then use decided to increase the pressure as you could not let this one get away. He, under duress, agreed he WAS actually going to leave his wife and thus you would be able to seamlessly move from one man to the next.

 

But he pulled up short, he woke up, he went "Wait a minute that isn't happening"

Since then, it is really about you still holding onto the dream and him trying to fend you off IMO.

 

Interesting, I agree and said something similar a couple of times in the previous thread but most people still saw MM as some master manipulator/puppet master. I think he's an opportunistic cheater but what I really wonder is what he'd do if OP stopped all contact apart from necessary business stuff. My guess - nowhere near as much as she hopes, maybe a few half hearted texts or emails but not the whole hearted pursuit of someone who is in love with her like she believes.

[What_Did_I_Do]

When I read the part about him having a brand new wedding ring I was thinking that maybe he and his wife renewed their vows while on vacay and that's why he has a new ring.

 

Thus the sadness when he sent them back home.

 

OP, I tried, I mean REALLY tried to date during the A. Of course no man could measure up against the impossible standards I set (ie. wanted a mirror image of xMM but single) so it was all doomed to fail. Now, I'm so glad I did not find his evil single twin. You have to extricate yourself from this toxic situation first before you can even consider looking for another partner.

 

We will never get these days back. Ever. Is this how you pictured your life to be?

[BaileyB]

I think he's an opportunistic cheater

 

I used to see him this way, but not so much anymore. As Elaine said, I see a woman trying desperately to hold onto the dream and a man who is trying to distance himself more and more. Both have been opportunistic, without doubt, but he doesn’t have to do very much anymore... OP has literally fallen into his lap, who could possibly turn down a woman who volunteers to be his secret lover? He is likely astounded that she is willing to continue despite the fact that he has made it clear he is not leaving the marriage.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@LKKat

 

I certainly don’t feel like I need to “find myself” .

 

But you do...because you settle for so little in your romantic relationships. You are deeply in denial. People keep trying to tell you as much, and this is why I think so many are drawn to your threads. Personally, my involvement on your threads is a healthy reminder to myself of why I stay away from my xMM. Reading your posts reminds me of where I was and how much I compromised myself for...wait for it...ultimately NOTHING, unless you count my broken heart. Reading other's posts reminds me how far I've come.

 

That NOTHING is your trajectory, noted by dozens if not hundreds here, who have already walked your path (and perhaps more importantly, your MM has told you as much many times). What seems like an out-of-this-world connection ultimately leads to disillusionment, pain, and an otherwise anticlimactic ending.

 

Dear Asaysno, you desperately need to find yourself.

 

You need to find...

that part within you that loves you more than you love MM.

 

within yourself the part that believes you are worthy of more.

 

the part that believes better is out there if you would be willing to find it.

 

the truth of what is happening here rather than making excuses ad naseum for MM behavior and why you continue to accept it (especially after you say it's not what you want!).

 

the strength within yourself to walk away from a dead-end situation and search for the more that awaits you with someone who won't constantly send you the message that you're not good enough to be first place.

 

I could go on, but you get the point, right?

[BaileyB]

But you do...because you settle for so little in your romantic relationships.

 

Dear Asaysno, you desperately need to find yourself.

 

You need to find...

that part within you that loves you more than you love MM.

 

within yourself the part that believes you are worthy of more.

 

the part that believes better is out there if you would be willing to find it.

 

the strength within yourself to walk away from a dead-end situation and search for the more that awaits you with someone who won't constantly send you the message that you're not good enough to be first place.

 

I could not agree more.

 

Asaysno, as they say, you can’t see the forest for the trees right now. You are so lost, so deep in the forest, that you don’t even know how lost you are...

 

Of course, you have a life - work, your son, your family, some interests... but, as it truly matters, you don’t know yourself at all.

 

As you say, you felt alone in your marriage for years before you ended it but you literally jumped from one unhealthy relationship to another. Please, whatever you do, don’t end it with this MM only to jump right into another relationship... Take the time that you need to gather yourself, to learn about yourself and to deal with your issues, to regain your strength, to dream and create a better future for yourself...

 

You have so far to go before you can say that you know yourself. As has been said so many times, a woman who knows herself and has confidence in her own ability and self worth would NEVER settle for so little...

 

I hope and pray that you understand this someday...

Edited July 26, 2019 by BaileyB

[whichwayisup]

So I am doing my best to be supportive of MM as he works on his marriage and family, and yes, spend time with him when we mutually agree to do so. It feels like a new phase in our relationship- but one where we are being more transparent with each other. Maybe it’s a slow fade to friendship or even limited contact- maybe it’s just another chapter in a lifelong story - I don’t know.

This is your life, second fiddle to a MM who continually is choosing his wife and family over you... Get used to feeling used by him. He told you that you were a good f..k! He isn't "in love" with you, he's in love with how you make him feel. Sure he has feelings for you but not enough to choose to be with you full time.

 

End it. If you don't you'll have your heart broken over and over again and live in sadness waiting for those time with him on his terms and time frame.

 

Don't you believe you deserve more? You won't ever get what you want from him.

[Bittersweetie]

I know none of us know how long we get on this planet

 

I'm sorry, I had to laugh a little when I read this line. This echoes exactly the kind of things I told myself during my affair in order to justify my actions. Things like "the heart wants what it wants" and "what will be will be" and "the best things in life are worth waiting for." Maybe these sayings can apply to other aspects of life, but I don't believe they apply to waiting for a married man to get his crap together and stop stringing another woman along.

[anika99]

I very much agree with everyone here. What you are accepting should be unacceptable to you. You seem to think that if you hang in there the MM is eventually going to realize that you are the better woman for him and pick you but that's not going to happen.

 

You demonized his wife quite a bit in your last thread and no doubt your MM helped in that. He focused on his wife's flaws and shortcomings in order to justify his vile behaviour and ease his guilt and you gave him plenty of affirmation. In the beginning he was infatuated with you and the way you idolized him. He was a married father romping on the beach, screwing another woman, while ignoring his wife and child and you thought it was splendid. You would even become outraged when his wife would become upset and demand that her husband come home and pay attention to her and his responsibilities. How dare she! You called her manipulative even though you and the MM were the ones deceiving her and secretly plotting against her.

 

As time went on I think the MM realized that you and his wife are both just normal people who each have qualities and flaws. His wife is not evil and you are not a goddess and he knows it. There are things he doesn't like about his wife but there are things he doesn't like about you too. He's not ever going to tell you that because he's conflict avoidant and manipulative. When he married his wife he agreed to accept her flaws and put up with her shortcomings. If he leaves her for you then he's going to have to accept your flaws and put up with your shortcomings. I think he realized that trading one for the other didn't make much sense, especially since it would mean going through a divorce and breaking up his family. He'd just end up with even bigger problems and not wind up any happier in the long run.

 

So now he has decided to stay married and you have decided to eat crumbs and pretend it's a feast. You are lowering yourself and your MM will not respect you for it. Watching you disrespect yourself will not make him love you more. He has enjoyed your adulation but he knows he's not the perfect specimen you are treating him as. He will see you as flawed for accepting so little. He will happily continue to use you as his hidden thing on the side but if he saw his mother or sister or daughter being used the same way he uses you it would disgust him. You would be wise to walk away now while you still have some dignity and self respect. Yeah it will hurt, but it's never going to not hurt and the longer you stay the more damaged and jaded you will become