Waited too long?

[Crazelnut]

A real, honest effort at marriage counseling might help, but only if your wife agrees to be 100%open and honest with you and the counselor. That's the only way MC and IC can help. And your W has to be willing to work hard and deal with the ramifications. If either of you are going to downplay the As or rug sweep, don't bother. Just divorce her right now. You both have to face this head on.

 

Truthfully though, I'm not sure why this marriage is worth saving. You were both bad partners for a long time, but she crossed the uncrossable line multiple times and made a fool of you. I don't see how you'll recover.

 

I'm really sorry about all your pain and loss.

[Rayce]

Once a cheater... always a cheater and you already know of how many? 3? I think if the right guy came along she would jump at having another affair.

 

lol... so I was just watching the 700 club and Pat Robertson just clarified this more for me anyway... If it is a 1 off thing the saying wouldn't apply... but more than 1 is a pattern. I have to agree... people have the capacity to change and be better but you have to consider the pattern.

 

peace...

[aliveagain]

There is no expiry date when it comes to fraud, your wife is a fraud. She is not the person she had you believe she was. She had a secret life that was hidden from you and controlled your options when you found out about it by bulling you into place. Bringing her lover into your bed is the highest form of disrespect one spouse can have for the other. Hope you have destroyed the bed? I know what I would do if in your position, expose the affairs to the O/M's spouses, divorce her with the option of possibly trying again once she did the work of fixing her broken a$$. Reconciliation would only happen if she signed a bulletproof prenuptial agreement giving you most of the assets if you divorce because of a new infidelity. The post nuptial or prenuptial agreement, depending on the path you take, should be a mandatory requirement of any form of reconciliation with her because she is a serial cheater. Broken people know right from wrong. Knowing her history, is this the woman you see yourself growing old with? Do you still respect her?

[Rockdad]

Once a cheater... always a cheater

 

 

Excuse me? Is this actually factual based or does an old saying now makes it so?

[Rayce]

Excuse me? Is this actually factual based or does an old saying now makes it so?

 

I am sorry if that offended you but that has been my experience in life. I do think people have the capacity to change but in this case she has had multiple affairs in this marriage.

[TooLateNow]

A real, honest effort at marriage counseling might help, but only if your wife agrees to be 100%open and honest with you and the counselor. That's the only way MC and IC can help. And your W has to be willing to work hard and deal with the ramifications. If either of you are going to downplay the As or rug sweep, don't bother. Just divorce her right now. You both have to face this head on.

 

Truthfully though, I'm not sure why this marriage is worth saving. You were both bad partners for a long time, but she crossed the uncrossable line multiple times and made a fool of you. I don't see how you'll recover.

 

I'm really sorry about all your pain and loss.

 

Thank you for responding. I do agree with some of what you are saying, but I am curious about one thing. Why do you believe I was a “bad partner”? What specifically was my fault or flaw? This is a sincere question because I always want to better myself when I can.

[DKT3]

This feeling is more about control. You see, if we as betrayed spouses, can convince ourselves that we were bad, or unworthy partners it would mean being better would control our wayward spouses fidelity. The truth is we simply can't control what people do no matter how good or bad our behaviors are.

 

There is comfort in thinking just being better will prevent it from happening again in the future.

[TooLateNow]

This feeling is more about control. You see, if we as betrayed spouses, can convince ourselves that we were bad, or unworthy partners it would mean being better would control our wayward spouses fidelity. The truth is we simply can't control what people do no matter how good or bad our behaviors are.

 

There is comfort in thinking just being better will prevent it from happening again in the future.

 

I see your point. However, I do not blame myself for her affairs except to the extent I went along with the threesome idea at first but not for where she sneakily took even that. I also do not believe that none of the cheating would have happened if only I had been a better partner. I believe all the cheating was entirely her fault based on her own selfishness and terrible choices.

 

To her credit, she agreed. In fact, she never once blamed me in any way and takes complete blame for all of it. She has always said I am a great husband who treats her like a princess and the cheating had nothing to do with me.

 

I have asked “them why did you do it?” It makes no sense to me. For the first two guys, she says she was a stupid, slutty teenager who made very bad decisions. For the third guy, she says she got caught up in the excitement and all the positive attention he was giving her and he pursued her pretty aggressively after the first few times. Not very good reasons and it may not be the truth, but I do believe her. It is still wrong though.

[DKT3]

Listen, I was there.

 

It's not about blaming yourself for her affair. What I'm talking about is you are subconsciously laying down the foundation to continue In the marriage. The quicker easier way to do that is to find a way we can control the outcome. Easy way to do that is convincing yourself you can control her behavior with your behavior. I was a bad husband, in the context you are using it translates to if I'm better she wont cheat in the future.

 

As I said, I was there, I did the same thing. Now granted I really wasnt a very good husband. As a therapist point out to me, how bad did you have to be before it's ok for your wife to cheat. Not picking up your socks? Spending $100 without asking her? You get my point?

 

fortunately for you, your wife has had a lot of time to actually see her infidelities for what they really were. Most BH here dont have that. They have wives who are all twisted up in the head.

 

I think you two have a good chance to create a better relationship. It is important that you make sure she understands that can only happen if you are able to become comfortable with what she has done. People think you can put it behind you but that simply isn't possible, you will never forget. If your lucky you can go days or weeks that you dont think about it, but it is part of who you are now, part of what your marriage was, is and will be. You just have to become comfortable enough to live with it. That depends a great deal on how she handles it going forward. Part of that comfort is feeling safe and confident that it is unlikely to happen again.

[TooLateNow]

Listen, I was there.

 

It's not about blaming yourself for her affair. What I'm talking about is you are subconsciously laying down the foundation to continue In the marriage. The quicker easier way to do that is to find a way we can control the outcome. Easy way to do that is convincing yourself you can control her behavior with your behavior. I was a bad husband, in the context you are using it translates to if I'm better she wont cheat in the future.

 

As I said, I was there, I did the same thing. Now granted I really wasnt a very good husband. As a therapist point out to me, how bad did you have to be before it's ok for your wife to cheat. Not picking up your socks? Spending $100 without asking her? You get my point?

 

fortunately for you, your wife has had a lot of time to actually see her infidelities for what they really were. Most BH here dont have that. They have wives who are all twisted up in the head.

 

I think you two have a good chance to create a better relationship. It is important that you make sure she understands that can only happen if you are able to become comfortable with what she has done. People think you can put it behind you but that simply isn't possible, you will never forget. If your lucky you can go days or weeks that you dont think about it, but it is part of who you are now, part of what your marriage was, is and will be. You just have to become comfortable enough to live with it. That depends a great deal on how she handles it going forward. Part of that comfort is feeling safe and confident that it is unlikely to happen again.

 

Great points. I agree with you. You seem very wise. I am sorry if that was born through adversity and pain.

 

I have continued to try to be a great husband in practice because that is just part of my nature. At times I have struggled in my mind and emotions with feeling like why should I try since she screwed us up not me, why should I not just sit back and let her kiss my ass the rest of our lives. But I never act on that beyond maybe being a little sullen at times. Maybe that makes me weak and a doormat, but in my view at least that would be easier than still trying my best. I think if I acted that way it would be counterproductive if I stay, and I have stayed, at least until now, and given my history I will probably continue to stay unless there are any further offenses. I do not think I could make myself not try my best at this or anything really. If I do something, I always give my best effort. Otherwise, why do it at all

 

I am sure many on here will think I am still being a fool. Maybe I am, but I have to be myself.

[Crazelnut]

Thank you for responding. I do agree with some of what you are saying, but I am curious about one thing. Why do you believe I was a “bad partner”? What specifically was my fault or flaw? This is a sincere question because I always want to better myself when I can.

 

Your description of yourself early in the marriage. Drugs, booze, partying, etc. A good partner doesn't focus on these things or his/her selfish desires.

 

And you HAVE improved yourself. You have matured a great deal since then.

[TooLateNow]

There is no expiry date when it comes to fraud, your wife is a fraud. She is not the person she had you believe she was. She had a secret life that was hidden from you and controlled your options when you found out about it by bulling you into place. Bringing her lover into your bed is the highest form of disrespect one spouse can have for the other. Hope you have destroyed the bed? I know what I would do if in your position, expose the affairs to the O/M's spouses, divorce her with the option of possibly trying again once she did the work of fixing her broken a$$. Reconciliation would only happen if she signed a bulletproof prenuptial agreement giving you most of the assets if you divorce because of a new infidelity. The post nuptial or prenuptial agreement, depending on the path you take, should be a mandatory requirement of any form of reconciliation with her because she is a serial cheater. Broken people know right from wrong. Knowing her history, is this the woman you see yourself growing old with? Do you still respect her?

 

I totally agree with your first few sentences about the fraud and the disrespect.

As far as the bed, by the time I knew about that many years later we had already moved and had not kept that bed.

None of the OM were married, and it was so long ago there would be no way to check up on them now, and I really do not want to anyway and certainly do not want her trying to find them somehow.

Do I still respect her? Not really.

Do I still love her? Definitely. I have told myself and even her that I wish I did not as that would make this very easy for me.

Can I see myself growing old with her? Well, at 56 going on 57, I feel like I am already old, at least a little old. I can see myself growing older with her, even though I realize many will think that is just stupid of me.

[TooLateNow]

Your description of yourself early in the marriage. Drugs, booze, partying, etc. A good partner doesn't focus on these things or his/her selfish desires.

 

And you HAVE improved yourself. You have matured a great deal since then.

 

That is what I thought you might have been referencing. It was pretty bad, but I think I still gave her a great deal of love and attention even then, but I probably was not such a great person to be with then. I was also pretty immature I suppose at that time, even though I felt all grown up because I had been living on my own from about age 15.

[TooLateNow]

It’s not right that she required you to stay silent about her wrong doings. She wants NO consequences for her bad behavior - that’s not right either.

 

And on top of that she didn’t help YOU to feel better about HER bad behavior - so you stuffed it deep down by staying silent.

 

And then you started drinking again - no surprise.

 

Can you stop drinking now?

 

I think you could benefit from being honest. Honest with yourself and honest with your wife. Counseling is a must for BOTH of you if she intendsto stay married to you!

 

Have a skilled counselor go over every single situation where she betrayed you - and talk about those situations until YOU feel finished talking about them.

 

She doesn’t get to call the shots anymore!!!!! She caused great harm! She needs to either deal with the damage she caused or leave you so you can sift through it on your own to work through the crap she dished out to you.

 

Stop making excuses for her - she’s been a crappy wife in many ways!

 

You consider what YOU need now. You gotta take care of your needs and healing first and foremost. She needs to earn her trust back IF she is going to stay - and you need to be sure YOU can talk about whatever you want!

 

Her silencing you is completely unacceptable! Stop agreeing to that! Tell her that agreement ended!

 

She is now willing to talk whenever I want to talk about it. It is me who is reluctant, and I am working on that with my psychologist.

 

I am going to get us into some joint therapy. She will definitely go without hesitation.

 

The drinking is an issue I am also working with my psychologist on. The doctor is not telling me I should not drink, but is helping me make a good decision that is my decision and then following through on it. The drinking is actually related to my grief from my daughter's death and not the affairs. I started drinking when I was 12 and drank a good bit until I was about 30. Then I completely quit for decades without even a desire to drink until about a year after my daughter died, so about four years ago. I was having trouble sleeping and also was pretty depressed. I thought having a few beers each night would help me sleep better and feel a little better. So I was self-medicating, which is stupid, and it did not even work. I have recently cut way back but cannot seem to get to the amount I want to be at, which would be only having a few beers on special occasions and maybe when we are out to dinner. It is usually much easier to go down a bad road than to turn around and go back, and that is where I am. But it is getting a little better and I am actively working on it.

[TooLateNow]

Do you have dna evidence the kids are biologically yours?

 

Since she has a history of cheating it’s possible the kids aren’t yours.

 

You assume she hasn’t cheated in the past many years - but you can’t know that for a fact without evidence.

 

You are right that I cannot know for a fact if there were other affairs, but I am fairly certain I know about all of the OM at this point.

 

I do know for a fact the kids are all mine. My son looks exactly like me and even sounds like me. Despite our age difference, people sometimes mistake him for me. As to my daughters, they both have (had) a genetic condition that is very rare and always hereditary. The chances they were not fathered by me would be about one in a billion. Anyway, I would not even care if they are not biologically mine (but they are). They are my kids.

[TooLateNow]

Why do you retreat when she cries? It’s only a move to manipulate you.

 

Why do you do that?

 

It’s not a kind and loving behavior on her part.

 

Your wife needs SERIOUS psychological help. Is she willing to go every week for a year or two? What is SHE willing to do to become a better/more honest and trustworthy person who doesn’t manipulate and bribe people she says she loves?

 

Is she willing to also address why she’s broken? So broken that she cheats on you? Can she be open and honest enough to address her issue there?

 

Bottom line is - SHE purposely ruined you and the marriage by cheating and demanding you cover up for her - is she willing to work with a professional to change?

 

I back off when she cries because it breaks my heart because I love her so much and have for so long. I know that is wrong. My doctor is telling me that is wrong, not good for me, and not even good for my wife. I am trying to do better, but it is so hard for me.

 

It may be manipulation on her part but I do not think so. She has always been super emotional, and not just with me.

 

She did go to a psychologist for grief counseling for about a year but stopped when the doctor retired. She did not discuss the affairs with that doctor. She obviously should have. I think you are right that she would benefit from individual therapy with a professional. My own doctor has said the same thing. I think she would go if I insisted, and I guess I should. With me going to individual therapy and us likely to be going to joint therapy and her also going to individual therapy, that is a lot of therapy. I am a little concerned it may take up too much time, but I guess that really does not outweigh the need.

[TooLateNow]

It’s so interesting - why doesn’t SHE make effort to get the appointments set up?

 

Why isn’t she taking initiative to repair the damage she caused?

 

Why are you the one making suggestions? Making appointments?

 

Doesn’t she do anything for herself? To improve herself?

 

Does she work?

 

You ask a lot of good questions and you are really making me think.

 

Up until abut six months ago, she really did not do much of anything to repair the damage she caused to me. I had thought it was mostly because I was not saying much and because she felt so terrible about it all that it was hard for her to face it. But now I am starting to think it was just more selfishness on her part, wanting to coast along and let me deal with my own problems, being primarily the ones she created for me.

 

She has asked me what are the things she can do to help me. I have told her some things and she is doing them. That is good to some extent, but I also feel like if you do it only because I mentioned it, that is not as good as if you were just doing it on your own initiative. Also, if she does it for a while and then quits, it really makes me feel like it was not as sincere as it should have been. That type of thing has happened in the past.

 

As far as working, she has not worked that much in our years together. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that she has only had one full time job in her entire life and it only lasted about a year. At this point she is helping me at my office a few hours a week at her own request but honestly she is not all that helpful even though she tries her best. She had a part time job working a few hours a week at a department store and she will be going back to that next week. She had to take some time off because she just had a minor day surgery and has been recovering and just got released by her doctor two days ago. She took that job because she wanted the employee discount because she loves to shop, but she is really great at this job and they love her there. Honestly, she does not need to work as we are set for life at this point even if I stopped working myself, which I doubt I will do as I love my work and love working. I got my first job when I was 13 and have been employed every day of my life ever since then. Also, all three of the OM were co-workers, so it makes me really nervous when she works. One night when she was working at her department store job she was later than I expected getting home and I freaked out and called her and was pretty accusatory. It turned out that she was talking with my son and daughter-in-law, which I confirmed with them due to my paranoia. She felt so bad that she offered to quit, but I told her not to quit.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OP, I've read most of your thread now. First I want to say how much I appreciate your initial post and your courage in posting it on a public forum to gain outside insight. I believe your efforts are going to reward you handsomely as you work through all this. Your post was thought-provoking and affirmed some things for me in my own life. Most especially you've illustrated the importance of sticking to my boundaries in the early parts of relationship that could lead to marriage. I've been an over-giver, sometimes tempted to neglect my needs so as to not upset the apple cart, or not asserting them well enough. This always works out badly. Thanks for reminding me to hold my ground or walk away on matters of respect. We alome communicate to others our value through our ACTIONS.

 

Although I'm a middle-aged single lady, I resonated with some of the emotional stuff you've described, and I've made great strides/efforts to work through it. I've made some similar mistakes in my relationships. It never helps to beat yourself up over it. I'm basing my comments on my own experiences and the parts of your story which resonated with me.

 

What I see is a hurt man who is questioning on the surface about his marriage but really your questions have to do with self-esteem, boundaries, etc. Clearly you had no good modeling on this from childhood and you did your best with what you had throughout your life. Frankly, I think you came out further ahead than others who had a similar start in life, and that is something to be proud of.

 

All this is to say that I feel you should delay making a decision on your marriage and refocus that energy on healing yourself. My counselor several times pointed out that I had a 'story' that I was replaying with various persons in my life: mom, brother, romantic partners, etc. It took me a while to really grasp how that worked, but eventually I did work out how my unmet childhood needs and expectations were playing out in my adult relationships. It also helped me to redefine what behavior is acceptable, how to enforce my boundaries, get my needs met, evaluate who gets a place in my life and for how long, etc. Pardon my long-windedness, but I'm trying to relate the value of doing this inner work.

 

See if you can detach from the idea that your wife victimized you (not excusing her behavior), and start looking for the patterns in you and your childhood that set you up. Forgive yourself...you did your best with what you had. Who else do you need to forgive to make yourself whole? Parents?

 

I also suggest you consider some other healing modalities in addition to your psychologist such as tai chi, meditation, reiki, etc. Also consider the book Radical Forgiveness. I have not yet been able to make my way through it but will try again soon. It triggered my anger last time I tried reading it (more work for me ahead). YMMV

 

Finally, as a person who has plenty of experience with dating and singlehood...it's a jungle out there! The grass is not always greener. My read on your situation is you'd be better off staying married but need to do more inner work. As you evolve, so will your marriage and your wife.

 

I've seen this with a friend of mine married 30 years. He and wife hit a very rough patch at 25 years. They both held resentments. He learned how to get his needs met, set boundaries. Wife began to respect him more. One day out-of-the-blue she apologized to him for things from 25 years ago (which he held resentments during all that time). They began interacting differently. Their relationship improved tremendously. They used to fight (blowouts) every couple weeks. Now it's every few months. He's getting his needs met better and hardly has a complaint now. Hope you see how I think this can apply to you.

 

I think it's wonderful that your wife wrote you the list of what she appreciates about you. That is a good jumping off point. Maybe your frankness about how her initial answer made you feel hit her where it needed to. She needed to reflect on that as much as you did. I encourage you to exercise that same frankness with other important issues. Don't be overly concerned or guilty about her tears. She learned early in your relationship that is a great way to get you to back down. Plus, she's not used to being held accountable and she needs to get used to it. Too bad she doesn't respond in a more mature manner, but when she realizes the tears and boohoo don't have the same effect, she will take notice and begin to think more about her behavior, and then cut the nonsense to handle it with you in an authentic, straightforward way. It will take a few times of your coolness to her tantrums before you'll get results but I do think this has been a manipulation.

 

All the best to you!

Edited August 10, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel

[aliveagain]

I totally agree with your first few sentences about the fraud and the disrespect.

As far as the bed, by the time I knew about that many years later we had already moved and had not kept that bed.

None of the OM were married, and it was so long ago there would be no way to check up on them now, and I really do not want to anyway and certainly do not want her trying to find them somehow.

Do I still respect her? Not really.

Do I still love her? Definitely. I have told myself and even her that I wish I did not as that would make this very easy for me.

Can I see myself growing old with her? Well, at 56 going on 57, I feel like I am already old, at least a little old. I can see myself growing older with her, even though I realize many will think that is just stupid of me.

 

One of the expectations of marriage is the knowledge that your spouse always has your back when your not there to do it yourself. If your not there to run off predators you expect your spouse will do that for you. She actually left you for one of the other men and only came back because he dumped her. That sounds more like a lifestyle choice then commitment. Your idea of love is a lot different then her idea of love, that's so obvious by her actions. There is such a huge imbalance in your relationship because of her actions, do you really believe your love is enough to counter her past behaviours? Your doing all the work, one sided relationships rarely workout. One of the things we always recommend to betrayed spouses is make the wayward spouse do the work. They need to earn the gift of reconciliation, it should never be expected. Being nice doesn't work to stop their behaviour.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@AliveAgain...

 

"One of the things we always recommend to betrayed spouses is make the wayward spouse do the work. They need to earn the gift of reconciliation, it should never be expected. Being nice doesn't work to stop their behaviour."

 

Could you illustrate examples for OP (and others)? Some of us have a clearer idea of what this looks like than others.

[TooLateNow]

OP, I've read most of your thread now. First I want to say how much I appreciate your initial post and your courage in posting it on a public forum to gain outside insight. I believe your efforts are going to reward you handsomely as you work through all this. Your post was thought-provoking and affirmed some things for me in my own life. Most especially you've illustrated the importance of sticking to my boundaries in the early parts of relationship that could lead to marriage. I've been an over-giver, sometimes tempted to neglect my needs so as to not upset the apple cart, or not asserting them well enough. This always works out badly. Thanks for reminding me to hold my ground or walk away on matters of respect. We alome communicate to others our value through our ACTIONS.

 

Although I'm a middle-aged single lady, I resonated with some of the emotional stuff you've described, and I've made great strides/efforts to work through it. I've made some similar mistakes in my relationships. It never helps to beat yourself up over it. I'm basing my comments on my own experiences and the parts of your story which resonated with me.

 

What I see is a hurt man who is questioning on the surface about his marriage but really your questions have to do with self-esteem, boundaries, etc. Clearly you had no good modeling on this from childhood and you did your best with what you had throughout your life. Frankly, I think you came out further ahead than others who had a similar start in life, and that is something to be proud of.

 

All this is to say that I feel you should delay making a decision on your marriage and refocus that energy on healing yourself. My counselor several times pointed out that I had a 'story' that I was replaying with various persons in my life: mom, brother, romantic partners, etc. It took me a while to really grasp how that worked, but eventually I did work out how my unmet childhood needs and expectations were playing out in my adult relationships. It also helped me to redefine what behavior is acceptable, how to enforce my boundaries, get my needs met, evaluate who gets a place in my life and for how long, etc. Pardon my long-windedness, but I'm trying to relate the value of doing this inner work.

 

See if you can detach from the idea that your wife victimized you (not excusing her behavior), and start looking for the patterns in you and your childhood that set you up. Forgive yourself...you did your best with what you had. Who else do you need to forgive to make yourself whole? Parents?

 

I also suggest you consider some other healing modalities in addition to your psychologist such as tai chi, meditation, reiki, etc. Also consider the book Radical Forgiveness. I have not yet been able to make my way through it but will try again soon. It triggered my anger last time I tried reading it (more work for me ahead). YMMV

 

Finally, as a person who has plenty of experience with dating and singlehood...it's a jungle out there! The grass is not always greener. My read on your situation is you'd be better off staying married but need to do more inner work. As you evolve, so will your marriage and your wife.

 

I've seen this with a friend of mine married 30 years. He and wife hit a very rough patch at 25 years. They both held resentments. He learned how to get his needs met, set boundaries. Wife began to respect him more. One day out-of-the-blue she apologized to him for things from 25 years ago (which he held resentments during all that time). They began interacting differently. Their relationship improved tremendously. They used to fight (blowouts) every couple weeks. Now it's every few months. He's getting his needs met better and hardly has a complaint now. Hope you see how I think this can apply to you.

 

I think it's wonderful that your wife wrote you the list of what she appreciates about you. That is a good jumping off point. Maybe your frankness about how her initial answer made you feel hit her where it needed to. She needed to reflect on that as much as you did. I encourage you to exercise that same frankness with other important issues. Don't be overly concerned or guilty about her tears. She learned early in your relationship that is a great way to get you to back down. Plus, she's not used to being held accountable and she needs to get used to it. Too bad she doesn't respond in a more mature manner, but when she realizes the tears and boohoo don't have the same effect, she will take notice and begin to think more about her behavior, and then cut the nonsense to handle it with you in an authentic, straightforward way. It will take a few times of your coolness to her tantrums before you'll get results but I do think this has been a manipulation.

 

All the best to you!

 

Very insightful and thought provoking!

 

Detaching from the idea of being victimized is definitely not only a present goal but also a repeating pattern in my life.

 

I did forgive my parents after many years of anger, resentment, and bitterness that manifested itself in rage against others. My father died before I could tell him I forgave him. I did tell my mother before she died but she responded as if I was crazy. It did not matter because forgiveness was to start to heal my own wounds and not really so much for them anyway. It was such a relief to release it.

 

I need to keep working on fully forgiving my wife. I am not there yet but am trying hard. Even if she does not really deserve it, and maybe she does not, but I need to complete it for myself and my own emotional health. At least that is what I think.

 

There are others I need to forgive, but one thing and one person at a time is probably all I can handle.

 

I would also love to eventually forgive myself, for many things, but I am pretty sure that will be the toughest feat and maybe impossible.

 

I do not know about the other modalities, but I will get and read the book. I read a LOT and love learning.

 

I am learning a lot on here thanks to all of you. I need to put some of the good ideas into practice with actions. That is something I struggle with concerning my wife, but I know it had to be done.

 

Wish me luck, and many thanks and best wishes to you.

[TooLateNow]

Well I would drop this reconciliation in HER lap and require her to set up her psychology appointments on a weekly basis! Make HER find a couples therapist you can both see.

 

Unless she changes the person she is = she s still the cheater who brought a man into your bedroom/your home! That’s dispicable!

 

You know what kind of woman brings another man into your home/bed? A wife that has no respect for you and carries a LOT of anger.

 

Now do you see why she needs help to completely change?

 

And then she gets a reward of keeping you quiet and not dealing with YOUR pain for more than two decades? Man o man you need to knock her off that pedestal!

 

And then she just shops and enjoys tons of money?

 

Where is the

consequences for her bad behavior?

 

Put her on a tight budget! Stop rewarding her bad behavior (even if it is decades old).

 

Let her struggle a bit. Learn to watch her struggle without taking away her struggles.

 

She’s used you as a doormat for way too long and now it’s time to change things. Start changing things up! Cancel her credit cards, move money so she only has access to a certain amount every week.

 

I get the feeling she has stayed because you provide everything. Yet she let you sit in intense pain by silencing you for decades. That’s not love!

 

What she did is terrible! Treat her appropriately - like she’s done terrible things to you! Make her EARN your trust back and confidence that she she loves YOU - not your money!

 

Make her address the rage and disrespect she’s done when she brought another man into your bed!! Make her address all the things she’s done. Stop giving her an easy out with a few tears. If needed make her move to a tiny apartment until she makes HUGE strides with a professional.

 

Are you getting where I’m going with these suggestions?

 

 

I understand what you are saying. A lot of it makes sense. It would be hard for me to do with her, meaning it would be hard for me to make myself do that. It is totally out of character for me at this stage of my life. Also, I do not want to be like an angry father. I do not want to be her father, I want to be her husband. I think that if the only way to successfully reconcile is to be someone I am not and do not even want to be, I am doomed.

[aliveagain]

@AliveAgain...

 

"One of the things we always recommend to betrayed spouses is make the wayward spouse do the work. They need to earn the gift of reconciliation, it should never be expected. Being nice doesn't work to stop their behaviour."

 

Could you illustrate examples for OP (and others)? Some of us have a clearer idea of what this looks like than others.

 

Doing the work is about healing and what it takes to get to that place. Doing the work is about regaining trust, marriages without trust fail. Doing the work is not just about staying together, many stay together for the wrong reasons. Doing the work is about finding out the whys of why it happened so you never repeat the same mistakes{understanding why you gave yourself the approval to cheat). You both have to want the marriage equally and be willing together to do what is necessary to make it the place you want to be. Doing the work is making yourself a safe partner. You as a couple need to decide to each others satisfaction what that requires, communication is critical so you both know how each other is feeling. Get professional help, third chances are rare.

[DKT3]

You are in a sense now fathering her through this now. She is only reacting to you and not being proactive. This is why you've never healed. Doing what you two are doing hasn't worked. Time to do something different or just accept that where you are now is where you will be for the next 20 years or until you cant stand it any longer and explode.

 

Healing from infidelity requires work outside of your comfort zone, it requires you push her to dig deeper, it requires some self reflection. Accepting responsibility for your part but not holding yourself accountable for hers.

 

As you describe your situation, she is doing just enough, that isnt good enough. Even if you believe yourself to be too old to restart with someone else it doesn't mean you have to accept this, this doesn't have to be your life. Requires and demand more from her, demand more from yourself doing so will absolutely result in positive progress no matter what direction that ultimately takes you.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Very insightful and thought provoking!

 

Detaching from the idea of being victimized is definitely not only a present goal but also a repeating pattern in my life.

 

I did forgive my parents after many years of anger, resentment, and bitterness that manifested itself in rage against others. My father died before I could tell him I forgave him. I did tell my mother before she died but she responded as if I was crazy. It did not matter because forgiveness was to start to heal my own wounds and not really so much for them anyway. It was such a relief to release it.

 

I need to keep working on fully forgiving my wife. I am not there yet but am trying hard. Even if she does not really deserve it, and maybe she does not, but I need to complete it for myself and my own emotional health. At least that is what I think.

 

There are others I need to forgive, but one thing and one person at a time is probably all I can handle.

 

I would also love to eventually forgive myself, for many things, but I am pretty sure that will be the toughest feat and maybe impossible.

 

I do not know about the other modalities, but I will get and read the book. I read a LOT and love learning.

 

I am learning a lot on here thanks to all of you. I need to put some of the good ideas into practice with actions. That is something I struggle with concerning my wife, but I know it had to be done.

 

Wish me luck, and many thanks and best wishes to you.

 

RE: your wife does not deserve your forgiveness.

She probably doesn't...but forgiveness is 90% for ourselves and 10% for the offending party imo. You alluded to this in your comments on forgiving your parents.

 

RE: forgiving yourself...definitely worthwhile whenever you work up the courage to tackle it. We do the best with what we have at the time. We all make mistakes. Isn't that a big part of why we are here? To learn and grow? We would have nothing to learn if we were already flawless.

 

On this note, I'll share an experience from one of my therapy sessions should you wish to ask your own psychologist about this, or alternatively, explore it with a clinical hypnotist. My counselor hypnotized me. We dug into some trauma (unlocked some memory from when I was 5 yo about my mother being tyrannical and hysterical, which terrified me at that age). Then we did a visualisation where I forgave my parents. We ended with me meeting with and embracing the very little girl I once was and talking to her, aplogizing to her.

 

The experience jarred me for months. I'm not sure if that was good or bad. It was part of forgiving myself though. I'd like to ask about your knowledge of psychological splitting (and perhaps how the ego suppresses painful memories), but perhaps it's off topic foryour thread (although a person's psychological greatly impacts his relationships).