Waited too long?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

In the vein of what DKT3 said, I agree you're already fathering her...I think it's by protecting her from your rage. Your rage has basis. The basis are the injuries she selfishly inflicted on you. By protecting her from your anger, by failing to hold her accountable, you are engaging in the unhealthy behavior of neglecting your own needs whilest placating her whims. I agree that will ultimately end badly...you are human after all. How much longer can you go denying your needs? Not much, and that's why you're here.

[TooLateNow]

Yesterday we had a long talk. I told her that I was not going to just back down if she started crying and I expected her to sit through it and participate in the discussion. She did not try to leave and she answered all my questions and did fully participate even when it got a little intense. She did cry some but did not walk away or hold back. We discussed many things but a lot of it was me venting.

 

She said that she feels that she does not deserve my forgiveness and she does not understand why I stay but she is glad that I have stayed. She is very remorseful. She is now empathetic about my pain and wants to help. She is doing what she thinks will help me based on what I have told her when she asks me. I said I appreciate that but it would help if she took the initiative to learn about the topic and do something without me having to ask first. She said she will do some reading and try to do that.

 

She said she has been trying over the years to make up for her transgressions by being a good wife. I can definitely see those efforts over the past few years.

 

She also agreed that she had greatly disrespected me in the past. She asked if I thought that she treated with respect now. With the exception of not allowing me to talk about the affairs and a couple of little things , I would have to say she does treat me respectfully in the last few years.

 

So the discussion went well. However, I still felt bad when it was over. I just do not like making her feel bad. It makes me feel bad. I know this is important and I needed her to not manipulate me into not completing a discussion and that was a success but I just do not like doing that. I think that is my problem not hers because I now know for sure she can and will talk until I say we are done.

 

The rest of the day was great and we had a fun time together.

 

On the shopping issue, in fairness to her I encourage that. I often take her shopping. Sometimes she tries to put things back if she thinks I am going overboard on her. She never makes a major purchase without discussing it with me and actually does not even go shopping without us talking about it first.

 

Also, she did not marry me for my money. When we married I did not even have money. I was a 17 year old living on my own when we met and we married less than a year later. It was not until about 8 to 10 years into our relationship that I started making a lot of money. We struggled together with limited resources for years in the beginning and she never complained about that. I admit I spoil her now but that is because I want to spoil her. I have worked hard all my life and why wouldn’t I want to share the benefits with the people I live. I also spoil my kids and my grandkids. I also am very generous with friends and also other people in need and charities. I do not care about money and almost never buy anything for myself with the exception of archery gear. That is just the way I am.

[TooLateNow]

Also, she does often manipulate me with sex. If she thinks I am upset, she just initiated sex. However, I would never complain about sex. I like sex and she is an amazing lover. Also, it is not too manipulative because we have sex pretty much every day anyway.

 

I am also not sure it even is manipulation. Maybe she is just trying to be nice and do something for me and with me that she knows I like and actually we both like doing together. So the other morning I woke up and was struggling and just staring at the ceiling. She woke up and noticed that and did not say anything but just starting hugging and caressing me and then it led from that into a very enjoyable time. At first I thought she was just manipulating me with sex. Then I thought, no, she could see I was struggling and on her own did something she knew would make me feel better. I know she has done a lot wrong, but I wonder if sometimes I take things the wrong way or in the worst possible way because of my hurt.

Edited August 11, 2019 by TooLateNow

[DKT3]

Its manipulative behavior because she uses it to control your behavior instead of discussing it with you. My wife was well aware of my emotional shut downs so whenever I would press her she would get aggressive knowing that I'm very controlled in my behavior and I would shut down and walk away instead of allowing my anger to take over. We learn how to control our spouses behavior after we've been together for a long time. Dont discount her ability to manipulate you

 

The conversation is a great start, however, with her history of backsliding you will have to be consistent with your message.

[TooLateNow]

Before I posted here I had read a LOT of threads.

 

I was thinking that her cheating had ended over 20 years ago so I was being a baby or just obsessing in my victimhood and just needed to get over myself. I thought I was to the point of unfairly punishing her for something that happened so long ago that it was now very unfair to her. I expected people here to confirm that and tell me to stop being a jerk.

 

I was surprised by the responses. They have really made me think. I am going to try to put many of the ideas you have given me into practice and have actually already started doing so.

 

One thing that was said was that I cannot do things the same and expect things to magically change. I know that is true. At this point, I am also an enemy to my own healing because it is hard for me to change and I do not really like change and some of the things I need to do are just not pleasant for me. But I am going to try my best because I am so unhappy at times.

 

Going to the psychologist was a big thing for me because I generally do not seek or even accept help and also am VERY private about my personal life. The therapy is helping, so now I guess I just have to also make myself do some of the difficult things you folks are suggesting.

 

I know what I want. I want to be happy in my marriage and live my remaining years loving my wife and being able to believe she now loves me just as much as I love her. I know that was not true in the past. I know she did not love me as much as I loved her, or maybe not at all for a time, and she definitely did not respect me. I want to think she loves and respects me now, and she says she does, but I guess I need further proof or at least reassurance.

 

I had also wanted to get to a point where I n longer had painful thoughts, memories, and images, but I have come to realize that is impossible. Apparently a person can not control their brain completely. I now am just hoping to find the best way to deal with them when they occur and especially not to obsess and wallow in them.

 

I also hoped to get to a point that I completely and unconditionally trust her. I now believe that is also impossible and would probably be foolish anyway.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

 

So the discussion went well. However, I still felt bad when it was over. I just do not like making her feel bad. It makes me feel bad. I know this is important and I needed her to not manipulate me into not completing a discussion and that was a success but I just do not like doing that. I think that is my problem not hers because I now know for sure she can and will talk until I say we are done.

 

OP, may I suggest changing your perspective on feeling bad about this? You are helping her (and your marriage) as much as you are helping yourself by doing this. There is nothing wrong with holding her, or anyone, accountable for injustices. By holding her accountable, you are helping her to become a better person and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. Let go of that guilt. It is misplaced. It is not your burden to carry. Release it and let her have a turn carrying it...as a consequence of HER actions.

 

An analogy: a good parent corrects a child when necessary. How many children say, "Thanks for that punishment! I love it!" Probably none...definitely not in the moment. However, responsible parents know that these corrections are needed for the childrens' development and survival after they grow up. Letting a child run amuck without correction sets that kid up for disaster later in life. Do parents feel regret or guilty for correcting the kid? Should they?

 

I'm not saying your wife is a child. Rather that she will benefit from correcting her actions. You will have to consistently set and reinforce those boundaries. The discomfort for each of you experience throughout this process is your growing pains.

 

Keep up the good work with your therapy! Change is hard but so totally worth it!!!

[SummerDreams]

I'm so so sorry for your daughter's death.

 

 

Sometimes I say in life that when you find yourself in a hard place and you can't go neither left or right, the best solution is that you stay put and let time show a sign of what to do. But in all honesty I think you have stayed put long enough.

 

 

If I could advise you something (you are my mom's age) it would be that you take some time away from your wife. Could you find an airbnb house and go stay there for like a month by yourself? Have no contact with your wife, live for a month like you would live if you were divorced (if you don't want to have sex with other women, just don't). Do some thinking, experience how life would be without your wife, how you would see life as single, what you would do, what you would like. I am sure that this month will give you the answer you are looking for.

 

 

You seem like a great father, husband and man. I wish you all the best.

[TooLateNow]

I'm so so sorry for your daughter's death.

 

 

Sometimes I say in life that when you find yourself in a hard place and you can't go neither left or right, the best solution is that you stay put and let time show a sign of what to do. But in all honesty I think you have stayed put long enough.

 

 

If I could advise you something (you are my mom's age) it would be that you take some time away from your wife. Could you find an airbnb house and go stay there for like a month by yourself? Have no contact with your wife, live for a month like you would live if you were divorced (if you don't want to have sex with other women, just don't). Do some thinking, experience how life would be without your wife, how you would see life as single, what you would do, what you would like. I am sure that this month will give you the answer you are looking for.

 

 

You seem like a great father, husband and man. I wish you all the best.

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

My psychologist suggested that I get away for a weekend or maybe a week to think and be by myself. I enjoy backpacking and camping and might do this.

 

Also, I often take a week or two off in hunting season and spend it in the woods. I usually hunt on my own but sometimes, especially for the longer camp time, I go with a few friends, so I would not be alone the whole time but we will typically split up during parts of some of the days.

 

To be honest, if we were separated for a month I would probably drive myself insane wondering and worrying about what she is doing.

[SummerDreams]

 

To be honest, if we were separated for a month I would probably drive myself insane wondering and worrying about what she is doing.

 

 

Then there's your answer.

[TooLateNow]

OP, may I suggest changing your perspective on feeling bad about this? You are helping her (and your marriage) as much as you are helping yourself by doing this. There is nothing wrong with holding her, or anyone, accountable for injustices. By holding her accountable, you are helping her to become a better person and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. Let go of that guilt. It is misplaced. It is not your burden to carry. Release it and let her have a turn carrying it...as a consequence of HER actions.

 

An analogy: a good parent corrects a child when necessary. How many children say, "Thanks for that punishment! I love it!" Probably none...definitely not in the moment. However, responsible parents know that these corrections are needed for the childrens' development and survival after they grow up. Letting a child run amuck without correction sets that kid up for disaster later in life. Do parents feel regret or guilty for correcting the kid? Should they?

 

I'm not saying your wife is a child. Rather that she will benefit from correcting her actions. You will have to consistently set and reinforce those boundaries. The discomfort for each of you experience throughout this process is your growing pains.

 

Keep up the good work with your therapy! Change is hard but so totally worth it!!!

 

I understand what you are saying and agree that I should not feel bad, not only because this, in my mind, is all her fault but also because what I am doing is not only appropriate but necessary. However, I cannot help how I feel, or can I? I do not think so, but if you have any suggestions about how to make myself change my feelings I would love to hear them.

 

I also understand the analogy of disciplining children. However, with my children, rather than punish them, I usually reasoned things through with them when they did something that they should not have done. That always worked great with my older kids, but they rarely ever misbehaved anyway. It did not work very well at all with my youngest. We tried everything we could think of with her but she just had a rebellious streak that never changed no matter what. But even with her, I never spanked her or any of my kids for that matter. Sometimes my wife did. When she spanked the youngest she would just laugh at my wife.

 

All that to say I would rather reason with her than "punish" her or be harsh (some posters suggest that and I know you have not). Honestly, I have not tried that very much until recently because in the pat I was essentially not allowed to even talk about it and the few times I did it was because I was at an exploding point so reasoning was not in my abilities on those occasions as I mostly just vented in an angry way.

 

I know that some feel I am already acting like a father instead of a husband, but I do not really see it that way. I am not saying that is not correct, just that I do not see it. I really do not want to be like a father or parent with my wife, but maybe that is necessary. I am not sure I could do that or at least I know I do not want to do it.

 

You are very helpful and I appreciate that you take the time to give me well thought out responses and some good ideas.

 

By the way, I looked up the "Radical Forgiveness" book and the description sounded familiar. I checked and I actually already have the book and have read it in the past. I am going to read it again.

[spiritedaway2003]

After reading through this thread, I actually think you're fine where you are. There are some trust and respect issues you're dealing with, but you're working on it. Continue to work through in IC -- to sort out how you feel and how you deal with things.

 

On the marriage side, some marriage counseling may be helpful. It sounds like your wife had been remorseful. And as long as you made it clear to her that it hurt you and that you're out if it ever happens again, I think you're actually in a good place. You don't need to separate to figure out what you want. It sounds like you already know what you want (stay together) but you'd like to get past those unresolved feelings that are nagging at you. And you can - it's not too late to work through those now.

 

Not everyone believes in it, but I don't personally subscribe to the notion that once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

If two people want to stay together, it's not about threatening to separate or making her work for it. Sure, there's an aspect of it, but earning back trust and respect is about working together and communicating with each other (often the cause of most breakdowns). It sounds like she's remorseful and she knows how much she hurt you and is willing to work with you on what you need.

 

It's going to be hard for her to figure out what you need from her, unless you tell her. So figure out what it is you need from her to help you heal and communicate it.

 

If you can't find it in your heart to forgive her, then just let her go.

 

But with your love for her and the shared history, I didn't get the sense that's what you want. What I get are 2 people who are willing to put in the work to make things work, so I am actually hopeful that you could work things out in IC and MC.

 

Take my thoughts and advice for what it's worth, and good luck.

[TooLateNow]

As a side note - YOU can’t MAKE her feel a certain way. That’s you. You projecting. Talk to your professional about that.

 

And - she may not have married you for the money - we know you didn’t have anything. But she may be NOT divorcing you now because you DO have money. She may like the lifestyle.

 

What else is she willing to offer to you to earn more trust?

 

This is in response to both of your last posts.

 

It is true that I do not completely trust her and I probably never will. Why should I? How can I? I want to completely trust her, but I just cannot.

 

However, I do mostly trust her.

 

Every now and then something happens that makes me suspicious and upset. I gave an example in an earlier post about her not being home from work right on time one night, but it turned out she was talking with our son and his wife, which I did confirm with them including the timing. Another example was when I was getting ready to leave on a business trip she suggested that the carpet cleaners come and clean the carpet while I was gone. I got very upset because one time she had one of her OM over when I was on a business trip. The idea of having our carpets cleaned when I was gone was so I did not have to deal with it so it was innocent as was talking with our son and daughter-in-law after work. However, both times she understood why I was upset and apologized profusely. When I went on the business trip, she had one of our granddaughters stay with her so I would not worry because I got so upset about the carpet cleaner suggestion and she even FaceTime conferenced me with our granddaughter while I was gone so I could see they were together at our home.

 

As far as what she has done or what I require, I have all passwords and full access to her phone and laptop and all email and social media accounts. I sometimes go through them in her presence and she never objects and I also sometimes go through them on my own when she is not there (and she knows that I do that occasionally). Also, we have cameras at all entrances to our home and I am the only one who can delete video as I am set up as the administrator and she does not know any of my passwords so she cannot get into it to delete anything and I would know if she did anyway because there are logs of all activities including when something is deleted and I can recover anything deleted if I want to do that. So I know every time any person comes into our house or even to any of the doors. For the same reason, she cannot even leave the house without me knowing it. Also, she calls or texts me whenever she goes anywhere without me including at every stage of the outing. Anyway, we are almost always together now except for when I am at work or travelling for business or she is at work (only a few hours a week at a department store), and she even is at my office with me sometimes and I often take her with me on business trips now. Also, all bills and accounts are set up with my email, even the couple of credit cards I set up in her name for her. I see every statement and I do scrutinize them.

 

In case this makes me sound too controlling or like I am trying to be some kind of prison guard or PI (neither of which I want to be), I would say that the accounts are set up the way they are because I pay all the bills. Also, the cameras were for security purposes and it was her idea to set up the cameras so only I can delete things and I can see everything. As far as texting/calling me whenever she goes anywhere without me, that was totally her idea; I never asked her to do that, but I am glad that she does. With respect to being together most of the time and taking her on business trips, that is because I like being with her.

 

The truth is it would be extremely difficult for her to cheat on me now or even do much of anything that I would not discover. I know she fooled me in the past and it is certain possible she could do it again, but I just do not think that she has done anything inappropriate with any other men since the early 1990's. I probably should trust her now, ,but I cannot make myself take that last leap of faith.

 

I do understand about psychological projection but I do not see how it applies here. As I understand it, it is a defense mechanism in which a person defends themselves against their own negative qualities or feelings by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. I do not assume she feels bad because I feel bad, I know she feels bad because of how she reacts (and it is not all just manipulation). And I actually can make her feel bad by the way I say things because in the past (and I am working on this) I just bottled things up (again mostly her fault) so when I would finally let it out it was typically in a very intense and angry and unpleasant way. Also, many people over the years have stated that I am intimidating (even though I think once I got past my rage years I am fairly easy going most of the time) and I am fairly big and very physically fit. Although I have never raised a hand to my wife or ever done anything even remotely violent towards her, she is not very big and I can definitely see why she reacts emotionally when I get really upset, especially since she suffered abuse and even two rapes as a young person.

 

As far as the money and lifestyle, I understand why you might think that is why she stays and does not divorce me. I have thought it myself. I have accused her of it and interrogated her about it more than once in the last few months, including the other night when we had our most recent talk when I finally forced her to listen and talk until I said we were done. One thing I am almost 100% positive about is that she would never leave me or divorce me for any reason. I think it is because she is now finally truly remorseful and does actually love me now, but hey, I could be wrong. I have lingering doubts myself.

[TooLateNow]

After reading through this thread, I actually think you're fine where you are. There are some trust and respect issues you're dealing with, but you're working on it. Continue to work through in IC -- to sort out how you feel and how you deal with things.

 

On the marriage side, some marriage counseling may be helpful. It sounds like your wife had been remorseful. And as long as you made it clear to her that it hurt you and that you're out if it ever happens again, I think you're actually in a good place. You don't need to separate to figure out what you want. It sounds like you already know what you want (stay together) but you'd like to get past those unresolved feelings that are nagging at you. And you can - it's not too late to work through those now.

 

Not everyone believes in it, but I don't personally subscribe to the notion that once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

If two people want to stay together, it's not about threatening to separate or making her work for it. Sure, there's an aspect of it, but earning back trust and respect is about working together and communicating with each other (often the cause of most breakdowns). It sounds like she's remorseful and she knows how much she hurt you and is willing to work with you on what you need.

 

It's going to be hard for her to figure out what you need from her, unless you tell her. So figure out what it is you need from her to help you heal and communicate it.

 

If you can't find it in your heart to forgive her, then just let her go.

 

But with your love for her and the shared history, I didn't get the sense that's what you want. What I get are 2 people who are willing to put in the work to make things work, so I am actually hopeful that you could work things out in IC and MC.

 

Take my thoughts and advice for what it's worth, and good luck.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

Your perspective is a little different from some of the others and that gives me something to think about.

 

I think for the most part you pretty much nailed it on how I feel.

 

The IC is helping me a lot so far and I plan to continue.

 

I now think MC is a good idea and that will probably happen. I did not think that before for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier posts about my view of "counselors" in general, but I think I am past those feelings now and also think giving MC a try is more important for our future than my bad feelings about "counseling" from the past.

 

I have told her some things I want her to do and she is doing all of them but one. She has also done at least a few things on her own. The one thing that I want her to do is to do some research and figure out some other things on her own so I do not feel like she is just doing something because I asked her to do it but because she really wanted to do it on her own. She has not done any research on her own yet but now says she will do that. This was in our last discussion, so I need to give her some time on that task, right? I did ask her to do this before and I think it is the only thing I asked that she did not do. I do understand that I should not expect her to just read my mind, but do you see why I want her to make an effort to figure out some things that would help me on her own? Maybe that is asking too much, but I can tell you it would really help me. I also understand that I do a lot of research for my work and I also do other research for fun all the time. My kids even tease me about it and when they ask what I want for birthday or holiday presents they call me weird sometimes because it is usually about some type of research or learning. So, I know research is not my wife's thing, it is mine, but I would still like her to give it a try for me.

 

I do believe I have forgiven her, I just do not have 100% trust.

[TooLateNow]

So, just now, literally while I was typing my last post, my wife texted me a link to an app for my phone that will allow me to see on my phone where she is at all times. (at least her phone which she generally always has with her) She texted, "This is meant to be a very positive thing. I don't want you to ever have to worry about where I am. I love you!" with two hearts added.

 

That made me feel awesome! She did this on her own! I never mentioned it. In fact, I did not even know of the app.

 

I can see she is now finally really trying to help me!

 

I feel like we can make this work. I am cautiously optimistic (I am a pretty cautious person by nature.) I feel the biggest hurdle will be continuing to have the necessary discussions and making myself not let her off the hook every time she cries. I also think I need to be a little more positive in my thinking and not always see the worst case scenario or wallow in the past. Of course, she will have to sustain her efforts and work hard to make me feel safe in our relationship, but I think she is now at least willing to give it her best effort.

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions and comments. I really appreciate it. It has already helped me and us really a good bit!

[spiritedaway2003]

She texted, "This is meant to be a very positive thing. I don't want you to ever have to worry about where I am. I love you!" with two hearts added.

 

That made me feel awesome! She did this on her own! I never mentioned it. In fact, I did not even know of the app.

 

I can see she is now finally really trying to help me!

 

I feel like we can make this work. I am cautiously optimistic (I am a pretty cautious person by nature.) I feel the biggest hurdle will be continuing to have the necessary discussions and making myself not let her off the hook every time she cries. I also think I need to be a little more positive in my thinking and not always see the worst case scenario or wallow in the past. Of course, she will have to sustain her efforts and work hard to make me feel safe in our relationship, but I think she is now at least willing to give it her best effort.

 

Yay! You can't solve everything that's happened in the past in mere days or weeks, but progress comes in small chunks. And it looks things are moving in a positive direction. Progress is worth celebrating. I'm glad to hear for you both; thanks for sharing this positive update (sometimes LS can get pretty depressing). I hope both your efforts pay off in the long run! Best of luck.

[DKT3]

So, just now, literally while I was typing my last post, my wife texted me a link to an app for my phone that will allow me to see on my phone where she is at all times. (at least her phone which she generally always has with her) She texted, "This is meant to be a very positive thing. I don't want you to ever have to worry about where I am. I love you!" with two hearts added.

 

That made me feel awesome! She did this on her own! I never mentioned it. In fact, I did not even know of the app.

 

I can see she is now finally really trying to help me!

 

I feel like we can make this work. I am cautiously optimistic (I am a pretty cautious person by nature.) I feel the biggest hurdle will be continuing to have the necessary discussions and making myself not let her off the hook every time she cries. I also think I need to be a little more positive in my thinking and not always see the worst case scenario or wallow in the past. Of course, she will have to sustain her efforts and work hard to make me feel safe in our relationship, but I think she is now at least willing to give it her best effort.

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions and comments. I really appreciate it. It has already helped me and us really a good bit!

 

A positive step indeed. However, it's easy since her infidelities were 20 plus years ago and has nothing to hide at this point. It brings you comfort so that makes it good. Just dont read too much into it.

 

Your difficulties will lay in her opening up and being vulnerable to you about what she did, because she has stonewalled you for decades. That is really where she need to take charge

[TooLateNow]

That’s great!

 

So what is it you need from her at this point moving forward to feel that you’re not concerned about her anymore?

 

So when I got home I asked her where she got the idea for the tracker app. She said she saw it in an article she was reading. She showed me several articles she had found on affair recovery. So she has also started looking into this like I asked her to do and came up with something on her own without me asking for it.

 

At this point, she has now done everything I asked her to do and more. She is showing genuine concern for my healing. And she already in the past couple years has been trying really hard to be a good wife (most of the time, but no one is perfect and I certainly am not) except for the shutting me down about talking about the affairs but even that is changing.

 

I think all that is left is for her to sustain the effort.

 

I am very happy today. I understand I may need to be at least a little guarded, but I need to relish good feelings when I get them as much as I obsess about bad feelings when they hit me.

 

To top it off, we went to the casino tonight and I won at the blackjack table, she won on the slots, and we had enough players club points to get a free dinner. Also, I got paid on a big bill at my office today. This is one of the best days I have had in a long time. It feels like the universe is smiling at me today.

[SummerDreams]

To be honest, I would not tolerate to be monitored by anyone and I find it ridiculous as a concept. I mean, is this the way to build trust again? I have never been cheated on but I think that if this were to happen to me I would take my time to decide whether I can live with it or if not I'd move on. To have my SO monitored like he is a pet or something seems really sad and pathetic to me. I'm sorry to say. I think that you have made the decision to stay but you can't accept that you are the only one who makes sacrifices, so you are balancing this with "look, my wife is humiliating herself by being monitored by me 24/7 so I get to stay".

 

 

In my opinion, if you want to stay, just put everything behind you and stay. If you can't do that, every other plan will be mediocre and fail. Do you have it in yourself to forgive and forget? Then do it. Don't you? Then don't. I find it that simple.

[Buffer]

Hi TLN

 

What is her plan to make you feel safe to remain in the relationship? Specifically how will/do you feel about her ideas?

[Rayce]

To be honest, I would not tolerate to be monitored by anyone and I find it ridiculous as a concept. I mean, is this the way to build trust again?

 

I agree with SummerDreams about monitoring... what a waste of time. As long as it is going on how can trust be built? My xMM had a fake fb account and he only contacted me using that while at work. There are so many ways around the monitoring.

[TooLateNow]

To be honest, I would not tolerate to be monitored by anyone and I find it ridiculous as a concept. I mean, is this the way to build trust again? I have never been cheated on but I think that if this were to happen to me I would take my time to decide whether I can live with it or if not I'd move on. To have my SO monitored like he is a pet or something seems really sad and pathetic to me. I'm sorry to say. I think that you have made the decision to stay but you can't accept that you are the only one who makes sacrifices, so you are balancing this with "look, my wife is humiliating herself by being monitored by me 24/7 so I get to stay".

 

 

In my opinion, if you want to stay, just put everything behind you and stay. If you can't do that, every other plan will be mediocre and fail. Do you have it in yourself to forgive and forget? Then do it. Don't you? Then don't. I find

 

it that simple.

 

I think you find this “that simple” because you “have never been cheated on.”

 

As far as staying, I have stayed for decades.

 

As for forgiving, I have done my best and believe I have forgiven.

 

As far as forgetting, that is impossible. No one can completely erase memories and images from their mind. Believe me I have tried, and my psychologist has told me that is impossible and the best I can do is learn and apply better coping mechanisms.

 

All of the monitoring is her idea. I do not think she is humiliating herself, she is offering to do some fairly painless things to try to rectify the pain and humiliation she foisted on me through her selfish choices. Most of the time she does not and will not know I am even looking because I do not get in her face with it.

 

Is her offering to make her life more of an open book to me as her husband after tons of lies and deception that lasted for decades a good way for her to try to “build trust” I lost in her because of her past actions and deceit? Of course it is. To me, that is just common sense and hardly a “ridiculous concept.” When people make terrible choices that hurt people and repeat them over and over and over again, I believe they should take action to remedy the damage they have done, especially if they want to be forgiven and expect that person to stay.

 

In the past I allowed her to get away with it with absolutely no consequences and with her refusing to allow me to talk about it. Now she is offering to allow me to “monitor” her and to talk with me. If you look at my first post, you will see I put up with her multiple affairs and deception and shutting me down and never threatened to leave. When I saw that she was suffering with her own guilt and shame because of what SHE had done and all of HER own lies and deceit, I offered to let her go. SHE chose to stay and has now offered to help me. I do not see a problem, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[TooLateNow]

I agree with SummerDreams about monitoring... what a waste of time. As long as it is going on how can trust be built? My xMM had a fake fb account and he only contacted me using that while at work. There are so many ways around the monitoring.

 

I realize there are ways around it. Also, I neither want to nor intend to be a PI or prison guard or “waste” very much time checking on her. However, I will occasionally check. The fact that she offers these things is helpful in itself. It shows openness after decades of deception. It shows concern after decades of refusing to care about my emotional pain that SHE inflicted with HER selfish choices. It shows a change from selfishness to selflessness. All of her own volition.

[Rayce]

I only mention it so your not lulled into a false sense of security. She is already taking walks with a man during her lunch hour. I am hoping it all works out for you. peace...

[TooLateNow]

Hi TLN

 

What is her plan to make you feel safe to remain in the relationship? Specifically how will/do you feel about her ideas?

 

I love her ideas. I especially like the fact that they are HER ideas. I have never wanted to punish her or control her or treat her in a way that hurts her. I know many think that is foolish of me, but that is just who I am. Doing these things that she is comfortable with that reassure me is perfect for me because I do not have to feel bad and like I am being some heavy handed dictator because this is all of her own choosing. If she will continue to show she cares about my hurt and healing and will talk it through with me when I need it, I am good. Honestly, I think it will be rare that I feel the need to discuss it with her because I have a therapist to talk with now, but just knowing she is now willing to do it means a lot to me.

 

I never would have made her sit through a discussion and never would have made myself sit through a discussion when she was crying if it had not been for the suggestions I got here. It has already yielded very positive results for BOTH of us. Many thanks.

[SummerDreams]

So will this time of selfleshness erase the time of selfishness? And how long will it take? And after this time is over, will you feel ready to trust her again without knowing where she is 24/7? And will it be easy to go back to a carefree trusted relationship after spending so much time monitoring her?

 

I still feel this is a way to balance the sacrifices you are doing with sacrifices she must do in order for you to justify to yourself why you are staying. Her making the choice to stay or to be monitored has nothing to do with it. You drove her to this choice because you were not feeling comfortable with you doing all the effort and her doing nothing.

 

I'm sorry but if you can't forget nothing will change. We all have bad things happening in our lives that we get sad or sick remembering them, but we learn to let them be buried in our minds. If you can't forget, all the self punishing your wife does is moot. She will always find herself as a defendant.