Waited too long?

[LovingKindness]

I have some experience with the subjects in this discussion and would like to draw attention to the following points.

 

Yourself -

 

- You were subjected to terrible pain as a young adolescent by your parents.

- In order to avoid the pain you turned to drugs that cause much negligence (alcohol) and lesser negligence (marijuana).

- The drugs that caused much negligence resulted in your mind readily turning to hatred and violence instead of love and compassion in your interaction with others.

- You have managed to get your life together by giving up that self destructive pathway, falling back on your intelligence, applying that intelligence productively, and also finding a spiritual pathway.

- You have fallen away from this pathway of late and resorted to drugs that cause negligence again due to the pain of losing your daughter.

- Likely you are still carrying the pain from childhood abuse, the pain of your Wife's infidelities and the pain of your losing your daughter.

 

Your Wife Point 1 -

 

- You say that your Wife was raped twice as a young adolescent.

- I have found that this is a pain that often dictates the entire life of a woman, for this pain never leaves them, it is there every day, throughout much of the day, except when they are indulging in sensual pleasures, like sex or ice cream.

- Often they have an extreme level of anxiety that will either prevent them from ever feeling safe, or conversely they will engage in dangerous behaviour in order to conquer their fear, but that doesnt work.

- I have noticed that sometimes women who have been raped have a much higher sex drive, for it is a momentary pleasure that makes their everlasting pain subside. You state that you do it every day and sometimes multiple times a day with your Wife.

- At the same time I have noticed that such women struggle to achieve orgasm and so experiment with ever more deviant sexual encounters to try and experience a feeling they can never attain.

- I have also noticed that some women who are raped can only ever orgasm with a man who is the complete opposite of their rapist, i.e. have proven unconditional love, you never leave them no matter what etc - a brutal standard almost no man can match, definitely not one who has much hatred, jealousy or vengeance within them, which you don't.

- I have also noticed that such women will test the men they are with in order to determine whether they are akin to a rapist or not, in various subtle or grosse ways.

 

Your Wife Point 2 -

 

- You say that your Wife was abandoned by her father.

- Beyond the obvious emotional issues and fear of abandonment this raises, I believe the presence of a father especially dictates the nature of a woman's day to day conduct during her younger years.

- If she had a good father who remained throughout her life, it is an additional mental barrier preventing her from engaging in the most wrongful conduct, due to the shame and fear of her fathers disapproval.

- I personally believe this is a significant factor in women deciding to engage in professional or clandestine sex work of the public or private nature, but that is hearsay.

- You obviously have taken the place of her father and that is why she begs you never to leave her like he did.

- This means she has likely recalibrated her shame and fear and replaced her father with you, but maybe not 30 years ago her when her wrongful conduct was at its maximum.

- Problem is her past transgessions have generated a sustained pain within you, thus making her feel sustained shame and fear, there is a way to deal with this outlined below.

 

Note - The above 2 issues are quite possibly the 2 worst things that could happen to a young girl, the only worse thing is if her father raped her.

 

I am sure if you two sit together and have a long chat about each of your respective pains, and try to link that to the conduct you each engaged in over the years, individually, with other people, and with respect to each other, you will learn many things about yourself and each other. Start with your own terrible conduct and link it back to the pain you suffered. If she is reluctant then let it be until she opens up, showing her this post may help. You have every right to be upset at what she did but you should spend some time to understand why exactly she did what she did. In my learned opinion, it is definitely not the case of some other cheaters who are just bored and want to get off, which I personally would never tolerate.

 

How you both may be able to fix things -

 

- It may beneficial for you and your Wife to find a way to train each of your minds in equanimity (keeping it centred).

- This means not allowing it to automatically pursue desire/greed (that which makes you want to eat food, have sex etc).

- And also not allowing it to automatically pursue aversion/hatred (that which makes you avoid the smell of dog faeces, not listen to awful music etc).

- Both of the above automatic mind states result in you falling into pain when you cannot achieve the objects of desire or avoid the objects of aversion that drives all existence.

- But if you can train the mind in equanimity you can pursue the desire or avoid the aversion with a level of control which means you are less likely to fall into pain if you fail. The following steps may help you achieve this.

- Atoning for past transgressions - maybe you can say you are sorry to those you have hurt, and maybe if someone has hurt you you can find the strength to forgive them. Easier said than done I know and I would not readily expect your Wife to do this. Do not expect anything in return in either case like them accepting your forgiveness or them thanking you for you forgiving them. As long as you mean it, it doesn't matter if they don't reciprocate.

- Helping others in pain through donating your time and money - volunteering in soup kitchens, mentoring groups of abused children using your story, giving money to some charity etc, whichever way you can apply your knowledge and skills. Helping others in pain often helps reduce our pain, almost as if we are all connected

- Doing some cognitive behavioural therapy - like painting or some other creative activity, might be worth asking your Wife what she enjoyed doing as a child before her mind was subjected to pain, and doing it together with her.

- Filling your mind with your spiritual doctrines and practices would also be a form of equanimity, e.g. projecting outwards love towards your Creator through praying etc.

- Basically doing anything that is not fuelled by inward material desire or aversion, and is steeped in outward love, compassion, giving.

- In addition I recommend practicing awareness of breathing - you do not need to convert away from a Middle Eastern religion to an Eastern one in order to do this.

- All you have to do is spend some time manually converting the contents of your mind from the pain of discursive thinking into the awareness of the body breathing, because when your mind is in pain its hard to think of helping others etc.

- Awareness is that mental faculty that exists when you are cutting carrots fast - you are not thinking of your problems, you are focused on the physical movement so you don't cut your finger off. Only instead of cutting your finger off, you are preventing your mind going into pain.

- The physical movement of breathing is discovered as follows - you go somewhere safe and secluded, you sit with your back straight so you don't eventually fall asleep, without thinking, you take a deep breath in, a deep breath out, a short breath in, a short breath out - repeat as much as you like whilst recording the physical process of your body breathing, chest expanding and contracting, air coming in and out (marijuana may help you record the process correctly in the beginning but later it becomes a hindrance).

- Then you experience your entire elemental body breathing in and out, you know the position of the bodily limbs, you know the subtle movements the body is making when it is breathing at all times, you know when you swallow, you know when your leg twitches etc.

- Then you calm all the subtle physical movements of the elemental body including the process of breathing until everything becomes more faint and the body becomes relaxed and unperturbed by outside influences.

- You do this as long as you can, every time your mind is distracted by pleasure or pain, you take the deep breaths in and out and you repeat the above.

- Only active knowledge of the physical movement of breathing should exist in your mind, if anything else enters your mind your mind is off centre, fuelled by desire or aversion. You don't need to know specifics, like cool air in, warm air out, just what is generally happening to your body.

- Always remember for the moments your mind is filled with just the movement of the elemental body breathing you are free of your pain in a controlled way, not an out of control way like engaging in drugs and sex.

- Of course it will return when you return to day to day life, but over time you will gain the skill to control your mind and keep it centred in a way that you can shut down the negative thinking quickly.

- You do not need to be seated and secluded to do this, you can know the general movements of the body at any moment throughout the day and by doing so you shift the mind from pain to equanimity.

- Also it is better to do this at whatever time of the day you are generally the most calm, some are calm before the day begins because they are stressed afterwards, others are calm after the day ends because they are stressed at the beginning.

- You may be able to transform this form of awareness into some other equanimous process relevant to your own spiritual pathway, like sustained projecting outwards love to your Creator and everything Created, I am not sure of your specific practices but I am sure you can figure out a way to do this.

 

I hope this helps as you seem like a man that does not want to leave your Wife, you just want to find a way to get over her past transgressions, and you you want your Wife to be happy and never do those things again. So perhaps formulating a set plan and following your spiritual pathway in a way that addresses each of your root pains can help you do this.

 

One critical thing - if you do decide to take these steps I recommend you never ever under any circumstances bring up her past transgressions again. If she does transgress which I do not think she will given her maturity then you will need to deal with it without bringing up the past. This means you either leave and find happiness elsewhere but continue to be friends just in case she self destructs, but don't blame yourself if she does. Or you both revert to a set plan, a set pathway, based on your spiritual doctrines, in order to improve yourselves by purifying your minds and helping others. Also I am sure you will agree that it is unwise to ever use the root pain she suffered against her, oh you were raped and so you are like this etc. Note that she may test you on this by using your root pain against you in the extreme heat of an argument, but you should have control of your mind in that circumstance in the manner outlined above.

 

One final note - We are men and we love the sensual delight of the physical orgasm, but just remember that it takes the mind way off centre generally, so reducing the frequency and the intensity (any deviant nature) gradually over time whilst doing all of the above will help both of you gain control of your minds, assuming she is fully informed and agreeable because you don't want her to think you are unattracted to her.

 

Your post struck a chord with me - because I am you at the beginning of your relationship, although I myself was not abused I had depression for 22 years, your Wife mirrors my GF in many ways, though I am yet to be cheated on. EDIT: Note the above deductions are based on my interactions with numerous abused women and not just one.

 

Best of luck my friend, I probably won't be able to check back because I am writing a thesis and have much general research yet to do but hopefully this advice helps you and whoever else comes across it, if all else fails.

Edited September 5, 2019 by LovingKindness

[HadMeOverABarrel]

S2B, Buffer, Had Me Over a Barrell, and Mark Clemson,

 

 

P.S. to HadMeOverABarrell - your comment about it being "a jungle out there" was quite eye opening to me and very helpful in swaying me in the direction I am taking, which is making me very happy! Thank you eternally!!!

 

Hey OP. Sorry I've just read this now. I've been off in the jungle. So happy for you! Wishing you many more blessings to come and abundant peace. You've taken control of your destiny, and the world is your oyster.

 

P.S. your p.s. was very kind and brightened my day. Thanks!

Edited September 17, 2019 by HadMeOverABarrel

[TooLateNow]

Thank you and you are welcome!

You are a very kind and wise person with very well balanced views.

Things are getting better and better for my wife and I.

I am to the point that I do trust her now, which is making me feel so much better.

I also believe that she really does love me now and has for longer than I gave her credit for. This is just an amazing feeling.

I hope your forays in the jungle fare well for you.

As far as I am concerned as a person you helped very much with your compassion and concern for me as a total stranger, you deserve all the best. Anyone would be very lucky to have a person like you in their life!!!

[Nikzy006]

I have read all your posts and i think she does not love you... i think your wife had her fun all this years and now she wants to live a normal and faithful life with you ... she always manipulated you and she always knew you were her plan b or second fiddle... And think about all those years of betrayal... you could have Been with someone who would have loved and respected you rather than with someone who always cheated and disrespected you.... i don't know if you need any actual advice in this forum as you have decided to be with your wife ... but i think you should and you deserve to live a wonderful life but i don't think it should be your wife she does not deserve you... sometimes we need to be selfish for our happiness but you chose be selfless...

[big dog]

My wife and I have been together since 1980 when we met in our senior year of high school. We moved in together right after we graduated and then got married a little less than a year later in 1982.

 

During our relationship she has had sex with three other men. The first was a one night stand before we got married but while we were living together. The second was a more serious affair during that same time period. The third was another affair that started at about the eight year mark in our marriage. That affair ended in 1992 and frankly was at least partly my fault. I truly believe that was the end of all of her cheating and that at this point I know everything except what she “cannot remember because it was so long ago.” I knew about the last affair at the time it was happening but did not know about the first two until about twenty or so years after the fact.

 

When we met, I was living on my own and had been for a couple of years even though I was still in high school. My parents kicked me out of the family home because of my extremely wild behavior, which included drinking, drugs, drug dealing, and violence. I do not really blame them for kicking me out because I was completely out of control at that point in my life. I also did not mind because I had suffered a lot of physical abuse from both of my parents when I was younger that did not end until I physically stood up for myself as a young teenager and they realized they could no longer get away with the abuse. When I say physical abuse, I do not mean a lot of spankings, I mean ER visits, hospital admissions, broken bones, cigarette burns, etc. There were also eight of us living in a two bedroom house with an attic for a shared kids bedroom, so being on my own and having some space was also nice.

 

My wife had also suffered physical abuse from her mother and had been abandoned by her father. She was also raped twice as a tween/teen before I met her.

 

Suffice it to say we were both very damaged young people when we met. She was a little wild too at that point, but nothing like I was and for the most part she just went along with me for the ride on my crazy train. I was full of rage at that time against basically the whole world, and I felt like it was me and her against the world. I had never really known love before I met her, and I totally idolized her and put her on a pretty high pedestal.

 

When we were living together but before we were married, I did suspect some cheating on her part. I confronted her a few times, but she always denied it. She would get very emotional and cry and make me feel terrible for even suggesting it. I even felt like I was just crazy and jealous and needed to get over myself. One time she had even packed a bag and left our apartment while I was at work. When I got home, she was gone and her stuff was gone and there was not even a note. I was distraught and frantic and was doing everything I could to try to find her, but she eventually just came back later that night. I asked if there was someone else, but she said she had left because of my wild ways but changed her mind and came back because she loved me. I believed her at the time.

 

I asked her to marry me not long after that and she accepted. She did not tell me about the other two guys she had been with while we were living together, and I did not know about that when we got married.

 

A few years later we had our first child. This totally changed me and I gave up most of my wildest ways, but I did still drink a little and use some drugs, but I stopped dealing drugs and getting into fights. Then we had another child about a year and a half later and then a third child about seven years after that. By that time I had completely quit drinking and using drugs and had become a very respectable adult.

 

At about the eight year mark in our marriage, I noticed my wife seemed very infatuated with a co-worker. We had over the years talked about a threesome but it was mostly pillow talk that aroused both of us. She had always said that it was just a fun fantasy and needed to stay that way, but now she suggested that we should do it for real with this guy. I did not think she would really do it so I played along. She then told me that she wanted to have sex with him first to make sure it would not be awkward and to get him into the idea. I reluctantly agreed still thinking she would not really go through with it – BIG MISTAKE. She did have sex with him. She came home and gave me all the details. It did turn me on for some reason, and then we had pretty passionate sex.

 

Up to that point in our marriage, she and I had very regular sex, usually every day and sometimes multiple times a day. It had always been like that from the very beginning.

 

She then asked if she could have sex with him again so she could ask him about the threesome and to make sure the sex would be good for all of us. For some reason she had not asked him about the threesome the first time. I again reluctantly agreed – ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE. Again, she told me all the details, we both got very aroused, and we again had very passionate and amazing sex. She did not mention the threesome, so I asked her about it. She matter-of-factly said that he said he was not interested in that.

 

She then told me that she did not want to have a threesome anymore and had broken it off with him. That was a lie. She continued to sleep with him behind my back.

 

Then, for the first time in our relationship we started to have sex less frequently. She even gave me the “I love you but I am not in love with you anymore” routine. One day during this time period I kissed her and she pushed me away, spit on the floor, and looked and acted totally disgusted. That is an image I have never forgotten and probably never will. I was devastated.

 

I should also say that she was upset with me during this time because I had moved us to a state much farther from her family due to being accepted into a prestigious university for my doctoral studies. Although I was a wild youth, I was always an excellent student, and after I got my life on track did further my education, which has served us extremely well. Her family had always created huge problems for us from the very start, but that story would be a very long story all on its own.

 

Anyway, I then found out that she was still sleeping with him and got furious. She said she was breaking it off at that point, but that was another lie. I caught her a second time and told her I was done with her. She cried and begged and apologized and convinced me to stay. She told me she really did love me and was in love with me and only me. She threatened to kill herself and asked me to kill her (I have NEVER laid a hand on her in any type of violent way). She made me promise that I would never leave her.

 

Shortly after this I got my doctorate and an excellent well-paying position with a very big time company.

 

We also started going to church. This totally changed both of us for the better. The little bit of wildness that was left in me was gone - no more drinking or drugs or any type of crazy behavior. It also helped me to get over the hurt, anger, resentment, and bitterness that had plagued me for so many years as a result of my parents’ abuse and a lot of the guilt and shame I felt for some pretty terrible things I had done during my wild drug dealing days.

 

Our sex life also got back to normal. To this day, we still have sex pretty much every day and sometimes multiple times a day.

 

A few years later we moved far from that state for a variety of reasons, including wanting to get away from the bad memories haunting me from her affair. I was able to get another high paying job, but this time with a much smaller company.

 

After we moved and at about the twenty (or so) year mark in our marriage, she told me she needed to talk with me about something serious. She told me God had convicted her that she had to tell me about some secrets she had been keeping from me. She told me that the affair with the guy I knew about was much worse, that it had gone on much longer than I had known, that she had slept with many times more than she had admitted, that she had slept with him in our home in our bed with our young children sleeping in their room right across the hallway, and some other pretty terrible things. She also now for the first time told me about the two guys she slept with when we were living together. The ONS was with a visiting district manager at her work. The more serious affair was with one of her managers from work at her location. She admitted that the night she had packed up and left she had gone to run away with him. However, when she told him she was leaving me for him, he told her that their relationship “was not like that,” and he dumped her on the spot. Apparently, she had just been a cheap piece of ass to him. That is why she came back to me.

 

To make matters worse, she was leaving to go visit our oldest daughter at college across the country. I could not go because of business. She dumped this information on me and then had to leave right away to catch her flight. She also said she never wanted to talk about it again because she felt too much guilt and shame. I was shocked but had no chance to say anything. During the week that she was gone visiting my daughter, I felt like I was going insane. I was devastated all over again.

 

When she got back I told her it was extremely unfair for her to dump that on me and then not allow me to even say anything. She agreed, and we talked a long time. I asked many questions, and she answered them all, at least as best as she could (I guess). She then made me promise that I would never bring it up again. I stupidly agreed. She also made me again swear I would never leave her, and I also agreed to that again.

 

As you may guess, it was impossible to never bring it up again and never have and ask questions ever again, but I did try my best. In the approximately twenty years since these terrible and devastating revelations, I have brought it back up and asked some additional questions probably less than a dozen times. Whenever I have, she gets very emotional and cries because of her guilt and shame and that makes me feel terrible. Mostly I have just for all these years kept it to myself but have had bouts of moodiness because of it.

 

This may have gone on like this forever but five years ago tragedy struck our family. Our youngest daughter died at the age of 21. My wife and I were and still are completely devastated by this. We have supported each other with our grief very well and I am sure always will no matter what. I went to a psychologist about a year after my daughter died to get some help dealing with my grief. I did not discuss the affairs because I had promised I would never tell anyone, partly for my wife but also largely because it is very embarrassing for me. Anyway, the doctor helped me to deeply analyze my life and realize that I was in two very toxic work situations. One was my primary full time position. The other was a part time position that I had mainly for fun with my church. In my primary job, I was bringing in huge amounts of income to the business and was very much unappreciated and treated pretty poorly. I quit both and started my own business. It has been hugely successful and I lament that I had not done this years earlier as many people had been counseling me to do for many years. I also felt much better emotionally and mentally and now have more time for myself and my family, which also now includes several grandchildren.

 

That doctor helped me quite a bit with my life issues and somewhat with my grief. But after several months she retired and I did not look for another doctor at that time. I was and still am very depressed over the death of my daughter, and after I stopped seeing that doctor, my wife and I both started to drink again and also use marijuana tincture. I also pretty much left the church but not entirely at this point.

 

So about six months ago I asked my wife a question about the past affairs. She blew up and claimed that at this point she was now the “victim” because I could not “get over it” and “keep bringing it up.” I got angry and we had a big argument which ended the usual way, her crying and me feeling terrible about making her upset.

 

Then I started thinking about it and wondered if she was right. I wrote her a long letter (I knew she could not handle a discussion about it) pouring my heart out about all of the pain I had suffered, mostly silently, for all these years. I also shared an article I had found about the high cost a betrayed spouse pays when choosing to stay with a cheater. I wrote that maybe she deserved better, maybe she deserved someone who could fully trust her and not be so damaged. I said that if she wanted to divorce I would go along with that and make it as easy as possible for her and I would still take care of her financially and would still never tell anyone about her affairs. I also did a timeline of our relationship from my perspective, and she did agree it was accurate except for a couple of points.

 

She then was overwhelmed with grief. In the past it had always been about her guilt and her shame, but now for the first time she felt remorse for what she had put me through and what she had done to me as a man and as a person and as someone who had always loved her and taken care of her no matter what. She told me she did not want to leave me. She said she would do anything to help me heal and would now talk with me whenever I needed to talk about anything I needed to talk about.

 

I also realized that trying to deal with this all by myself all these years was a terrible decision on my part. I found another psychologist. I have been seeing this doctor for the past several months to deal with these affairs and the grief over losing my daughter and other issues that come up of course. I am now seeing things from a totally new perspective. I no longer feel like a worthless loser and less than a real man for putting up with all I have put up with. I am regaining some of my lost self-esteem and confidence.

 

Part of reanalyzing my life has caused me to reevaluate my relationship with my wife. I see now that I was pretty much cheated out of my opportunity to choose for myself if I was willing to marry a cheater and also deprived of the opportunity to have a chance to deal with my emotions in an open and healthy way.

 

I am now wondering if I should get out of this relationship for my own well-being.

 

However, I feel like maybe that is unfair at this point so far down the road. Although I still love my wife and would help her as best I can, she would be pretty lost without me. Over the years I have treated her, in her words, “like a princess.” If she wanted something, I got it for her. If she needed care and support, I gave it to her. I have been very successful and have been able to take her all over the world for vacations and shopping and fun. She says I have given her a life she never dreamt she could have ever had. When she wanted to stay at home, I totally supported her. If she wanted to work, I helped her find work, but actually she has only had one full time job in her entire life and that lasted less than a year, and she has mostly not worked at all. She now helps me at my office a couple hours a week, but that is for her because she wants to do it and I really do not need her help and in fact secretly have to redo a lot of the work she does for me.

 

Also, I still love her, although I no longer worship her in my heart as I used to do and sadly do not think I will ever completely trust her again. Also, my kids would be very hurt if we separated or divorced. And even though I have suffered a lot of hurt over the years, we have also had a lot of great times together and have spent our entire adult lives together. I also do not want to be alone. I am pretty certain I could find another woman because I am successful, am well off financially, and exercise every day and am in great physical shape, but I never want to be with any other woman no matter what happens. Finally, I did promise not to leave her and I take my promises very seriously.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Your life & marriage together has been built on lies & deception. And you've allowed it to happen by telling your own heart that it'll be OK. But it's obvious that it never was nor will be what it should've been. It's obvious as well that your kids are grown You really need to make a decision as your life's moving along quickly and there's not that much time left to search for trust & truth in a relationship...if you even want one. If you want to live under these circumstances, then so be it. You're a tougher guy than I could be.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Thank you and you are welcome!

You are a very kind and wise person with very well balanced views.

Things are getting better and better for my wife and I.

I am to the point that I do trust her now, which is making me feel so much better.

I also believe that she really does love me now and has for longer than I gave her credit for. This is just an amazing feeling.

I hope your forays in the jungle fare well for you.

As far as I am concerned as a person you helped very much with your compassion and concern for me as a total stranger, you deserve all the best. Anyone would be very lucky to have a person like you in their life!!!

 

Thanks so much, OP. Lately the jungle hasn't been too kind. I flew to NYC to meet someone I'd been talking to for over a year off and on. Turned out to be an extremely clever catfish. I found myself a hotel near airport and booked a return flight for the next day. Pretty disgusting that he even pretended to be looking for me at the airport for over an hour after my arrival.

 

Hopefully all my good karma will begin paying off. I'm sharpening my machete in the meantime. Be well!

[merrmeade]

Sorry but it's really late for me. I've read the beginning and end of your thread and am impressed with the work you've done on yourself.

 

I just have one question and apologize if it's in the middle of the thread —

Is your wife also seeing a therapist, and, if not, why not? Why is it that it's all about coming to terms with your pain and betrayal (which IS absolutely essential for you) but not about her issues that allowed her to cheat and lie to you?

 

It also seems to me that her histrionics are quite convenient and she knows very well how to ignite your VERY compassionate soul. I only say this because I realised after YEARS that my husband really did not deserve my understanding and compassion for his Great Shame. In fact, I deserved much more than I demanded for myself, and I think you do, too.

 

I mean, I would not wish to derail your reconciliation for anything. It's very inspiring, and your wife is clearly working at being unselfish and giving. But is she also working at owning up to all the ways she manipulated you? Can she honestly see and admit that she was good at avoiding consequences by using half-truths and her oh so painful guilt and shame to get you where she needed you to be.

 

It's one thing to admit to the affairs, but another entirely to face all the ways she corrupted her entire character as she knowingly controlled and manipulated your knowledge of the truth. And she did this over and over and over.

 

Has she faced those demons? I mean, frankly it leaves me a little cold to read your kindness in reporting her difficulty in accepting that you cannot ever trust her completely again and all the rest. That is just really not enough in my opinion.

 

I mean, it's a hell of a lot more than I settled for but that's how I know. I think about this issue of character, vulnerability and authenticity as it affects relationships all day every day, and frankly even ex-cheaters cannot really afford to think about it. I don't think anyone could survive the honesty required for a cheater to admit what s/he has done. They cannot afford to admit the their spouses' innocence and faithfulness even though their spouses don't hold it over their heads or point it out. If they did, they would not be able to get up for the pain of remorse. But do you see that happening?

 

If it did and I'm wrong, I apologize and this can be ignored.

[TooLateNow]

M

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

She is seeing a therapist now. I insisted and she reluctantly agreed. She was reluctant not because of dealing with the affairs but because she was afraid the therapist would want to discuss her truly horrible childhood trauma that she buries and does not want to face. Of course, that is one thing the therapist is exploring, and it is hard for her but I believe it will help my wife a lot.

 

Her remorse and concern for my healing are growing even more. She told me she did not deserve me and believed that just having to see her must be very painful for me and offered to leave and tell our kids what she had done so no one would blame me. She said she did not want anything except maybe her car if that was OK with me. She apologized over and over.

 

I asked her if she wanted to leave and she said she did not but wanted me to be able to move on and find someone who would treat me right and make me happy.

 

I told her I did not want her to leave because I still love her, so she is staying, which is definitely what I want. I also said that I do not want her to tell our kids or anyone else. That is partly because I do not want her to be hurt, partly because I do not want my kids to be hurt, but mostly because I would be embarrassed. Stupid male pride and ego I guess. She has agreed. At this point she feels she needs to be punished, but I do not want that. I want the suffering to end for both of us and for us to be happy together.

 

She is doing a lot of loving things for me. I am rapidly healing, which is making me want to try even harder myself, which makes us both feel good. It is not always easy but it really feels like we have started all over again with a “beginning of a love story” kind of almost giddy happiness. I know that sounds sappy and hard to believe, but it is true. I have never felt this good in my entire life. I hope it lasts to the end.

 

Best wishes to you.

[TooLateNow]

Are you seeing a therapist as well?

 

Yes I am still going

[TooLateNow]

Why do you keep taking away her consequences?

 

She’s not likely to grow and become a better person deep down while you take away her painful truth of who she is!

 

She’s only likely to cheat again at the rate you’re approaching this.

 

Stop making it so easy for her.

 

You have given me some good advice that has definitely helped me when I followed it. The same is true about others on here who gave me advice.

 

It helped get me to where I am, which is where I want to be.

 

However, I think what you are suggesting now would not further my goals for my relationship with my wife and would be counter to what I value.

 

She has already grown and become a better person. I do not believe she is likely to ever cheat again. Indeed, she has not cheated on me for over 20 years (although she did lie and deceive me). She has also become very broken over what she did to me.

 

She knows the painful truth of who she is, that is, a person who lied and cheated and deceived the one man who truly loved and worshipped her no matter what and in the process destroyed him. She seems to really hate herself.

 

That is not what I want. I do not want her to be in pain. I want both of us to be happy together, and we are getting there.

 

We are at a point where we can discuss the affairs and my pain whenever I want and she will fully participate. But I feel like now I am good. I have said all I needed to say and she has answered all of my questions and I am satisfied that she gets it.

 

I want to move on. I want us to experience joy. I do not want her to be in pain or suffer or be under my thumb or have eternal consequences.

 

I also want her to know who else she is besides the negative things listed above. She is also the love of my life, the mother of my kids, my friend and lover for my entire adult life, and the woman I want to spend my remaining years with.

 

I know some may find this disappointing while others will think it is awesome. Some may think I am moving too fast while others may wonder what took me so long.

 

The bottom line is I listened to advice from different perspectives and have done what seems best for me to me. I have to decide what works for me. I think I have. It may not work out perfectly, but I will be true to myself and pursue the things that I value in a way I can live with.

[Buffer]

As long as you are content good luck

[TooLateNow]

Things just keep getting better with my wife and I.

 

We have become so happy together. She has become so caring and attentive.

 

It is like a dream come true to me. Our marriage is now everything I ever wanted out of a marriage (in the present not including the past travails).

 

She is trying so hard to be the best wife she can be for me and is doing an amazing job of that! It is making me want to be an even better husband, and she already had said since the beginning that I had ALWAYS treated her like a princess.

 

I feel like I have now TOTALLY forgiven her for her affairs (and for treating me really terribly also over the years). I also feel like I can TOTALLY trust her now (although I know that might be dumb and I guess I can still get some anxiety at times).

 

I have also completely quit drinking. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, I had major substance abuse issues when I was younger but had quit for decades until about four or five years ago after our youngest daughter died at the age of 21. However, I have completely quit drinking again now and have no desire whatsoever to drink at all. It is like it was when I quit the first time (and during those twenty plus years I never faltered even once so I think this is going to stick this time as well).

 

I am still using marijuana tincture in the evenings at times. I know that is not great but it is less harmful physically than alcohol and my psychologist is not telling me to stop. It helps with the occasionally overwhelming grief I still feel over the death of my youngest daughter. I do hope that I eventually cut the marijuana tincture out of my habits, but for now it is still helping me and my doctor is not telling me to quit, so I will not stress about this at this time.

 

I did talk with my wife about us having sex every day and how I feel sometimes like she is doing that to manipulate me or to help me get over the hurt she put me through in the past. I told her we do not have to have sex every day because I am much better and she does not have to do that. It turns out that she just really likes having sex with me a lot. I like having sex a lot also, so I guess we are good there. We have both always been that way from the very start of our dating to this day (except for a brief time during her third affair). I do wonder if her being raped twice as a young person has a lot to do with her extremely strong sex drive. If it does I hope her therapist gets that figured out and "fixed" if that needs to be done. Anyway, I have let her know that there will be no pressure from me if she ever feels the need to cut back (although I did not tell her that I would probably be a little disappointed because, like I said, I do like having sex a lot).

 

At this point, I feel like I am totally over her affairs. I still sometimes have negative thoughts or feelings about it invade my mind, but my therapist has taught me ways to deal with that when it occurs, which is not very often at this point, and it has been going very well, I believe mostly because of how good I feel overall about the current state of our marriage.

 

So now in therapy we are moving on to other bigger issues for me, primarily dealing with the death of my daughter and also dealing with the pain and struggles of dealing with one of my grandson's battle with cancer, which has been going on for about five years now with lots of ups and downs (currently stable but still with some cancer in his little body).

 

My biggest struggle in therapy is likely going to be with forgiving myself for doing some pretty awful things to other people (not my wife) when I was a young crazy drug dealer (who also happened to be a rage-aholic due to being physically abused as a child), but we are not ready to tackle that yet and have not really done too much with that yet in therapy.

 

One of my biggest regrets is that I waited so long to confront the problems with my wife and in my marriage because once I finally did so (with prompting from my therapist and a LOT of GREAT advice from people on here), it was all resolved very positively and pretty quickly. Hopefully I have learned the lesson that it is a very bad idea to let things fester like I did.

 

Best wishes to all!

[mark clemson]

Sorry to hear about your daughter and grandson.

 

 

Happy for you that reconciliation seems to be working out so well. Congrats!

[Buffer]

I am glad it is working in your favour.

[Daisydooks]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:29 PM, TooLateNow said:

We tried marriage counseling after her third affair and I was a disaster in my opinion. My wife insisted that we not disclose or discuss her affair, so ti was probably doomed to fail in any event. About ten minutes into the session, the counselor stated that everything surely must be entirely my fault and we should just prepare to divorce. Even my wife thought that was ridiculous. We never went back.

 

 

 

 

Full disclosure is THE ONLY way 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Daisydooks