Just need to offload

[darkbloom]

Hmmmm... what gives the impression I’m wallowing in self pity? I did talk to her and tell her I would leave but that I wouldn’t do it on a chance. I’m not going to break up a marriage and disrupt two kids to find out nothing is there. I love

My Ow but that doesn’t mean I would give up everything, and be so destructive as to divorce. If she said we would make a go of it then I would work through it. Otherwise I’m working through where I am. And where does it say I don’t respect my wife? She’s an excellent mother, and a genuinely good person.

 

I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person who has gone through this in this way. I don’t hold any animosity to my wife, I don’t think she’s an idiot. But I have fallen in love with someone else. If respect means I tell her the truth and destroy our lives for potentially nothing, that to me doesn’t seem a very rational thing to do?

 

This pisses me off. You’re not wiling to disrupt your marriage if OW isn’t waiting and ready to date you. That is incredibly selfish not to mention disrespectful to both women. You’re making your wife plan b because you think plan a won’t have you. Your OW has been waiting for you to grow a pair and make the hard choices in life (I.e. ending your marriage) to show that you’re a good person and not just a cheater who is using her for a good time. There are very few OW who like being in the position they’re in and they are hoping MM will show their love not just say it. You are not willing to risk anything for her, no wonder she walked away.

 

I told my MM he was a coward and I would never trust him to make the hard decisions in life. You are both from the same vein. IMO your OW is better off without you.

[Turning point]

But life isn’t rational.

 

Yes, it is. Life is entirely rational and largely predictable. IMHO you wish it wasn't because it lays all this foolishness bare.

 

The OW isn't dumb enough to place herself in free-fall for such a feeble promise. No amount of conjecture will obscure the clarity of this simple con-game you're proposing. Your OW won't commit to you because she sees how weak you are in your selfishness. The lies are too transparent and she's validated them with experience.

 

You are essentially begging at this point and trying to pass it off as some kind of intellectualism. The underlying essence of your posts resemble a child who's just been told he can't have another cookie.

[BaileyB]

The OW isn't dumb enough to place herself in free-fall for such a feeble promise. No amount of conjecture will obscure the clarity of this simple con-game you're proposing. Your OW won't commit to you because she sees how weak you are in your selfishness. The lies are too transparent and she's validated them with experience.

 

You are essentially begging at this point and trying to pass it off as some kind of intellectualism. The underlying essence of your posts resemble a child who's just been told he can't have another cookie.

 

Oh, but he REALLY wants the cookie... :D:D

 

Well written post. It is a con-game, and you are so transparent OP that any woman would have to be silly to get with you. It’s hard to believe your wife stays, but then again... she doesn’t have the full truth about the man she married. When she does...

[spiritedaway2003]

Your OW isn’t going to wait to see IF you leave your wife. Divorce your wife knowing you haven’t treated her right. You haven’t been totally honest.

 

When you’re a free man your OW will likely be with you.

 

It’s a great match. She’s likely trying to see if you’ll take action and divorce to be with her. That’s what you should do.

 

^^^ This. If and when you get divorced, contact the OW. Then you have your real chance. But my guess is that you don't know if you love her enough to take that risk. Or if it's not that you didn't love your wife, but you can't risk giving it all for...possibly nothing.

 

I think you're actually very rational. You're calculating the the risks and your chance of success. But it goes back to the same thing: You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

This is where love forces you to make a choice, and these choices have lifetime ramifications. It's not an easy thing to do especially when you're in a ambiguous state. You're not in a state where you're miserable in your marriage - that makes the choice easy.

 

At some point, you'll need to decide (for your own peace of mind): Do you want to go all in, or all out?

[Moth1980]

Yes, it is. Life is entirely rational and largely predictable. IMHO you wish it wasn't because it lays all this foolishness bare.

 

The OW isn't dumb enough to place herself in free-fall for such a feeble promise. No amount of conjecture will obscure the clarity of this simple con-game you're proposing. Your OW won't commit to you because she sees how weak you are in your selfishness. The lies are too transparent and she's validated them with experience.

 

You are essentially begging at this point and trying to pass it off as some kind of intellectualism. The underlying essence of your posts resemble a child who's just been told he can't have another cookie.

 

Nope. You and I have a fundamental disagreement here. In that the nature of

people isnÂ’t rational. If it were we wouldnÂ’t see people take drugs, break the law etc. And there would be no such thing as love just a selection of mate based on status and our own predefined wants. So no. Disagree. OW knows itÂ’s not a feeble promise based on past experience. I actually think as she went through something similar with her father she doesnÂ’t want to be the OW to other kids. IÂ’m not begging, and where in any of the above have I tried to pass it of as intellectualism?

[Moth1980]

^^^ This. If and when you get divorced, contact the OW. Then you have your real chance. But my guess is that you don't know if you love her enough to take that risk. Or if it's not that you didn't love your wife, but you can't risk giving it all for...possibly nothing.

 

I think you're actually very rational. You're calculating the the risks and your chance of success. But it goes back to the same thing: You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

This is where love forces you to make a choice, and these choices have lifetime ramifications. It's not an easy thing to do especially when you're in a ambiguous state. You're not in a state where you're miserable in your marriage - that makes the choice easy.

 

At some point, you'll need to decide (for your own peace of mind): Do you want to go all in, or all out?

 

Possibly the best articulation on here. I know her enough to know I love her. But I can’t risk giving it all in for possibly nothing. Yup cake and eat it to is spot on.

[Moth1980]

Oh, but he REALLY wants the cookie... :D:D

 

Well written post. It is a con-game, and you are so transparent OP that any woman would have to be silly to get with you. It’s hard to believe your wife stays, but then again... she doesn’t have the full truth about the man she married. When she does...

 

This actually made me smile. Weirdly enough. And don’t disagree with the above. Although it’s not a con game. I’m super transparent. Quite possibly. Too much.

[Moth1980]

Check with a counselor about how you avoid conflict - it should help

You become a better person if you do the action part of changing that about yourself.

 

You avoid telling your wife the complete story.

You make your OW believe you love her but no action that supports it.

You avoid changing your life (style) in fear that you don’t have a woman waiting for you.

You cheat even on your W AND OW to search your “feelings”.

The you stay married knowing you love another woman.

 

Your whole life these past several years is a lie. Lies to yourself, to your wife, kids and OW.

 

Get honest! You’ll find it might be easier to be happy instead of all the lies and pretending.

 

Let go of the marriage - you ruined that a long time ago - your wife needs to understand what you did isn’t HER fault.

 

Not sure I’m avoiding conflict. But yes being honest might be a better way out. You’re right my last three years has been a lie. Happiest I have been is when with the OW. I don’t want my cake and to eat it. Just want the OW. Which isn’t rational. I should run a mile from that situation but I’m drawn to her for some unknown reason.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I did talk to her and tell her I would leave but that I wouldn’t do it on a chance. I’m not going to break up a marriage and disrupt two kids to find out nothing is there. I love...

....If respect means I tell her the truth and destroy our lives for potentially nothing, that to me doesn’t seem a very rational thing to do?

 

 

Not rational - but transactional. At your core all of your relationships are transactional in nature; what's best for me only.

[Moth1980]

This pisses me off. You’re not wiling to disrupt your marriage if OW isn’t waiting and ready to date you. That is incredibly selfish not to mention disrespectful to both women. You’re making your wife plan b because you think plan a won’t have you. Your OW has been waiting for you to grow a pair and make the hard choices in life (I.e. ending your marriage) to show that you’re a good person and not just a cheater who is using her for a good time. There are very few OW who like being in the position they’re in and they are hoping MM will show their love not just say it. You are not willing to risk anything for her, no wonder she walked away.

 

I told my MM he was a coward and I would never trust him to make the hard decisions in life. You are both from the same vein. IMO your OW is better off without you.

 

Fair enough. But surely you can see the other side, and the impact it will have on my kids etc. Yes it’s selfish. And yes it’s my fault. But what’s done is done. I’m so close

Some days to just letting it all out and having the chips fall where they may and then I see my kids and how happy and oblivious they are now and think what right do I have to **** it up. And again in case anyone doesn’t read the above I’m not saying it’s not my fault.

[Amethyst68]

At this point your wife isn't plan b, hell she's barely plan z. If all you want is the OW why don't you take the first step and prove to her you'll do it.

 

Why do you get to keep your wife and family on standby? It's an extremely cowardly act. Tell your wife the truth, then if she decides to stay at least you can try to start afresh for real. If you split then you'll still have your kids, just try and be honest with them going on.

[pepperbird]

op,

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I doubt you will like it.

 

 

 

I don't think you or your ow are capable of love, at least not the love that your promised to your respective partners. You're using it as an excuse to treat your wife and kids badly and put their mental and physical health at risk. Your ow is willing to keep her fiance on the line all while waiting to see if you would leave your wife.

 

If you ask me, those are both pretty crappy ways of behaving. Arne;t you capable of something better? And this nonsense about " I had to sleep around behind my wife's back to see if I really loved my ow":rolleyes:? I mean come on...you're an intelligent guy. What on god's green earth makes you think anyone, especially you, believes a whopper like that?

 

When you love someone, you don't knowingly engage in behavior that could hurt them. You are doing the exact opposite, all the while complaining about people on here judging you. Could it be that part of you knows just how low you have sunk, or is it that you don't like having to face up to it? Otherwise, it's just plain arrogance. It's not the "judging" that;s hurtful, it;s your behavior itself that's the problem.

[Moth1980]

op,

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I doubt you will like it.

 

 

 

I don't think you or your ow are capable of love, at least not the love that your promised to your respective partners. You're using it as an excuse to treat your wife and kids badly and put their mental and physical health at risk. Your ow is willing to keep her fiance on the line all while waiting to see if you would leave your wife.

 

If you ask me, those are both pretty crappy ways of behaving. Arne;t you capable of something better? And this nonsense about " I had to sleep around behind my wife's back to see if I really loved my ow":rolleyes:? I mean come on...you're an intelligent guy. What on god's green earth makes you think anyone, especially you, believes a whopper like that?

 

When you love someone, you don't knowingly engage in behavior that could hurt them. You are doing the exact opposite, all the while complaining about people on here judging you. Could it be that part of you knows just how low you have sunk, or is it that you don't like having to face up to it? Otherwise, it's just plain arrogance. It's not the "judging" that;s hurtful, it;s your behavior itself that's the problem.

 

 

OK - let’s break this down a moment. Not sure I’ve ever complained about being judged. You’ll see from my posts I actually said don’t waste your time as I don’t really care. I’m not sure she is keeping her fiancé on the line as you say. If you read the first post you’ll see that she’s pretty far from that. Am I capable of something better? Maybe... And I knew when I was doing it why. I couldn’t get the feeling I had when with the OW and still haven’t shaken it in 3 years. It’s not limerence, it’s not anything else and i get my behaviour is. To put it mildly.. pretty ****...

[Moth1980]

Not rational - but transactional. At your core all of your relationships are transactional in nature; what's best for me only.

 

Fair point, but it’s a sweeping statement. “All your relationships are transactional in nature”. Not so, didn’t get into relationship with wife thinking what’s in it for me? Am not there now. If I’m staying it’s for the kids and also to work at something we’ve both invested a significant proportion of our lives. That’s not transactional?

[Mr. Lucky]

If I’m staying it’s for the kids and also to work at something we’ve both invested a significant proportion of our lives. That’s not transactional?

 

That’s not your choice, that’s your fall-back option.

 

It becomes transactional when the exclusive metric is the benefit to Moth1980.

 

For instance, have you considered the effect on your wife of spending her life with someone admittedly in love with another woman? You find being loved and connected so intoxicating you can’t let the OW go, but seem to be perfectly comfortable with a Plan B offering your wife much, much less - because it’s best for you.

 

That’s transactional...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Turning point]

.. my behaviour is to put it mildly.. pretty ****...

 

It's actually kind of lame. You're not pining for you wife because she doesn't have anyone in the wings (no competition.) You're fixated on the OW because she has a fiance' and to be ignored by her makes you a runner up, 2nd best, less.

 

You got into the affair so you could be primary, #1, etc. and now she's showing you're not the top dog.

More than her, you just want to be right, you want to win.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Turning point

[darkbloom]

Fair enough. But surely you can see the other side, and the impact it will have on my kids etc. Yes it’s selfish. And yes it’s my fault. But what’s done is done. I’m so close

Some days to just letting it all out and having the chips fall where they may and then I see my kids and how happy and oblivious they are now and think what right do I have to **** it up. And again in case anyone doesn’t read the above I’m not saying it’s not my fault.

 

OP my MM didn’t have any kids at the time of our affair and he still used the same excuse you do. The impact it would have on their friends and family and blah blah blah. He used his wife as a fall back during our entire affair. She got pregnant recently and HE WAS HITTING ME UP THE FIRST 3 MONTHS OF HER PREGNANCY telling me how much he loved me and missed me and wanted to be with me. He has NEVER once taken a real step to show me that he is serious about ending his engagement when the affair started or his marriage. He told me if we couldn’t be together he’d stay with his wife because while I make him happiest he thinks he could still be happy with her and he doesn’t want to be alone.

 

Decide what you want and be f-cking honest with yourself. Your kids will adjust and be happy when you’re happy. Stop using them as an excuse to not sort your feelings out. Decide, commit to it and follow through. It’s really that simple.

[pepperbird]

op,

my guess is that she doesn't want anything long term with you (ow) because as someone who is also being unfaithful to her relationship partner, getting engaged to him no less, she has seen, through her own actions, that you can't trust someone who will cheat on you.

 

How could she ever trust you, knowing what she's been up to herself?

[Prudence V]

I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person who has gone through this in this way.

 

My H was married to his xBW for around 30 years. He also faced the dilemma of leaving - knowing it was a risk - and upending his kids’ lives, or continuing in the marriage, safe and familiar - knowing his heart was elsewhere. He had his own history - his parents divorced when he was a kid, and he felt obliged not to do the same to his own kids. He went to a counsellor, he confided in friends, he spent a good deal of time working through his issues... and then he followed through. He took action in his own life, he didn’t wait for someone else - his OW or his BW - to make the decision for him. So today he’s happy, and you’re not.

 

And that’s your choice, and no one’s fault but your own.

 

 

I did talk to her and tell her I would leave but that I wouldn’t do it on a chance.

 

So you weren’t prepared to do it “on a chance”, but you expect her to do that? That’s hardly fair, or symmetrical, is it? You expect her to carry the risk, but you’re not prepared to carry any risk yourself? Hypocrisy much?

 

where does it say I don’t respect my wife? She’s an excellent mother, and a genuinely good person.

 

I’m not talking about your rationalisations, I’m talking about your actions.

Cheating on someone - with multiple women, and with one woman over a protracted time - isn’t respectful. Being in love with someone else and admitting you’d rather be with them, isn’t respectful. Using her as Plan B (and I’m not saying she’s not using you, too - clearly the security matters more to her than being respected) isn’t respectful. Withholding crucial details about your love for your OW, and your arm with the OW, isn’t respectful to the BW. If my H - or anyone else - treated me like that, they’d be history in an instant. To me, love involves respect - and respect involves treating someone as if they matter. They, them, in themself - not the roles they play raising your kids, washing your underwear or cooking your food.

 

You worry about “blowing up your kids’ lives for nothing”. I think that’s exactly what you’re doing now. You’re stealing their childhood, teaching them that treating their partner as a means to an end is the goal of a relationship, and patterning behaviours that they’ll drag into their own relationships in the future. Be prepared to dry the tears they’ll cry on your shoulder one day as they ask you to babysit the kids while they try desperately to make sense of their own toxic marriages, wondering why they chose so badly, why they put up with a partner who runs around on them, who loves another, who treats them as Plan B... because that’s coming.

[pepperbird]

In my experience, limited as it may be, people who know their actions and choices are good ones and ones they can be proud of don't feel the need to whip out their rose coloured glasses about their relationships . They also don't feel the need to justify them. You do. That is very telling. The alternative is that they really are proud of causing so much heartache. I don't get that sense from you. It's more a by product of the external rleationships you feel validated in pursuing.

 

I would humbly suggest to you that the problem isn't in others, it's in you. You mentioned that your father had multiple affairs. Did that affect the way you saw your mother? Did it make you lose respect for her? Is that colouring your actions now?

 

If you could talk to your dad about how he treated your mother, what would you say? What would you say to her?