Before and after infidelities...

[DKT3]

The wife and I recently spent a weekend at a focus on the family retreat in Branson Mo. I would strongly recommend it to you all, fairly inexpensive about $500.

 

Anyway, one of the things we focused on was our marriage before and after the infidelity. We were asked to list things we missed about our marriage and what we enjoy about it now. We were both shocked by the answers. Not because they were mind blowing but because they were mundane, things that we take for granted. Example my wife says that I'm like a dog before and after they have puppies. Before I was very playful and not very serious but now I have a bluntness about me that was never there, that I dont have that playful side with her and she at times found it annoying but now misses it.

 

For me I feel my wife has been declawed, she has a quick wit and use to fire off like a machine gun with sassy comments. Now she is much more mindful of what comes out of her mouth. She is strong willed but tends too be much more agreeable which I dont really care for.

 

I dont think we can turn back the clock, I believe that this is who we will be going forward. We are open and honest with each other, it can be both refreshing and painful at times. But we have lost an element of playfulness. It's much more serious.

 

We plan to start doing goofy stuff together and see if we can get some of it back.

 

I'm not really sure why I posted this, other then to hear feed back on others who have noticed slight changes that you miss but found annoying before.

[mark clemson]

Part of this may simply be happening naturally as we age. W and I just aren't the same people we were in our 20's for many reasons. As we age and change we become somewhat different people and in most cases at least a bit more serious. So, the "chemistry" between you as a couple has probably changed somewhat naturally over time.

 

Not at all saying inf. had no impact, just pointing out that some of these changes or similar ones might have happened anyhow...

[DKT3]

Yeah, my rational brain understands that part of the dynamic was codependency, we had been together since we were 17 years old. Every important happening, every first was together. We divorced and spent the better part of 5 years apart. That changed us both.

[Starswillshine]

Could this be any lingering hurts/guilt about the affair? Or do you think you have worked past all of it? I know it has been awhile since then.

 

Infidelity definitely changes people. I know I will never be the same person I was before my ex's affair. But I havent lost my playful side (probably because I am not with him any longer). I'm probably more likely to be sassy than I was before, but that is probably because I found more strength. I do not know how I would be if I were still with my ex husband.

[elaine567]

It could be just ageing but it could be due to the affair too.

 

She has had the stuffing knocked out of her and is always mindful of pushing you too far and is thus overly agreeable. She can't be sassy and witty and cutting in case she triggers you.

 

You are blunt and serious, as being carefree and playful made you vulnerable and open to being cheated upon... now you pull no punches.

You cant let your guard down fully, else she takes advantage...

[DKT3]

Could this be any lingering hurts/guilt about the affair? Or do you think you have worked past all of it? I know it has been awhile since then.

 

Infidelity definitely changes people. I know I will never be the same person I was before my ex's affair. But I havent lost my playful side (probably because I am not with him any longer). I'm probably more likely to be sassy than I was before, but that is probably because I found more strength. I do not know how I would be if I were still with my ex husband.

 

The affair stuff is to the point now where we make jokes about it. I'm past the pain, I do get sad when thinking about it from time to time but it's only a second then it's gone. She struggles with it still, she still harbors shame and a sense that she has damaged her relationship with our son beyond repair. It's sad because we have really moved past it (my son and i) but she seems stuck at time. I wish she would stop punishing herself. Maybe if I can get back to the less serious me it will help alleviate her feelings of guilt and shame. My son is independent now and what 20 year old needs his mom hoovering around? That separation she feels with him is him moving to manhood.

[Ronni_W]

I dont think we can turn back the clock, I believe that this is who we will be going forward.

DKT3,

 

My heart and best wishes to you and your wife.

 

I agree with you that it is futile to try to 'turn back the clock'...I but disagree that who/what you are now, individually and as a couple, necessarily represents who/what you will be,

individually and as a couple, going forward.

 

I think. It is as much on you to give back your wife's 'claws' <lol> to her...that is, to let her know, in no uncertain terms, that you're not so danged fragile

that she just needs to just keep on the kid gloves all the time -- as it is on your wife to call you out when you miss an opportunity to be spontaneous and playful,

and, instead, you come out all serious/gruff. Let her know that she gets to say, "HEY!!! DKT3...you're acting like a total ***** [grandma], right now!!! Stop that...IMMEDIATELY!!!"

 

(Similarly, you need to know that you have all rights and permissions to adopt the exact same tone with her.)

You both need to come to a perhaps new recognition that this *is* how real, normal, actual couples also relate with each other...all the time, and sometimes. (If that makes sense?)

 

There could be problems with each of you trying to force your individual selves to 'be goofy' on command; much better, IMHO, if you can decide from within yourselves,

and also having received from each other, permission to just let things flow more naturally.

 

To be honest: I'm not really sure if this will make any sense to you...but that's just because it may not come across to you as I am feeling in my heart.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Ronni_W
Grammar

[DKT3]

The problem is I'm playful by nature, yet I'm not consciously aware of hitting the switch when it comes to dealing with my wife.

 

In talking with my father, he seems to believe that for all my claims the trust just isn't what it was and that I've always been cautious about trusting people even as a little boy. That's something I have to examine. I do feel that I trust her, of course it isn't the 100% blind trust that she will always have my best interest at heart in her decision making process. I do trust that she would never betray that way again.

 

As far as my declawed comments...well she read this and wasnt too happy about it. But she does recognize this, unlike me, this is something she is doing across the board, and said even her sister commented that she seems more passive.

 

I very much have committed 100% to her, and as I told her years ago when we remarried this was it, there would be no divorce. Either we make it work or one of us would be locked in the basement. I'm not going anywhere.

 

One of her most attractive qualities for me is her strong willed personality and no nonsense demeanor of Italian women. I dont like that she holds backs, I dont care for the passive nature. I'm a hand full I need that counterbalance. I really should say that brick wall because I'm full speed most of the time.

[major_merrick]

Sometimes, if you're going to fix things, time is what you need. My husband and I dated when we were younger, and one of the big problems in our relationship was that I just couldn't stick to one person. I cheated, and I cheated on subsequent partners. It took another 10+ years to get back together and finally marry. Our solution to the issue ended up being a closed circle of non-monogamy...multiple female partners in the same bed. Probably isn't what you're looking for, since you're going to a conservative Christian kind of counseling retreat.

 

Before my bad behavior, I treated him like any other partner. Badly. But since he stayed my friend even after I broke off our engagement, I've come to value him and not take him for granted. Whether you have one partner or multiple partners, valuing the other person is the key.

 

One of the ways I show that is allowing myself to be somewhat "declawed." I've got a nasty mouth, and I can create some of the most cutting insults known to man. Playful banter is great, but you really have to know when it is a bit much, as you've got to stop short of hurting your partner. My husband has pretty good tolerance for that side of my personality. My GF#1 - very sensitive. Know your audience.

 

Part of your wife toning it down may be that she suspects some of her comments are hurtful. She's trying to be a better person. You might have a discussion about banter boundaries. It can give her some of those claws back, but without letting them be too sharp.

[DKT3]

I'm having a little trouble making the correlation between the situations.

 

I dont think bringing women into our bedroom would promote much playfulness. Haha my wife is insanely jealous there would be nothing playful about that.

 

We are not conservative in any aspect of life, and not particularly religious either. It was a good retreat, and Branson was alot of fun. Had no idea they had that much stuff.

[alsudduth]

The wife and I recently spent a weekend at a focus on the family retreat in Branson Mo. I would strongly recommend it to you all, fairly inexpensive about $500.

 

Anyway, one of the things we focused on was our marriage before and after the infidelity. We were asked to list things we missed about our marriage and what we enjoy about it now. We were both shocked by the answers. Not because they were mind blowing but because they were mundane, things that we take for granted. Example my wife says that I'm like a dog before and after they have puppies. Before I was very playful and not very serious but now I have a bluntness about me that was never there, that I dont have that playful side with her and she at times found it annoying but now misses it.

 

For me I feel my wife has been declawed, she has a quick wit and use to fire off like a machine gun with sassy comments. Now she is much more mindful of what comes out of her mouth. She is strong willed but tends too be much more agreeable which I dont really care for.

 

I dont think we can turn back the clock, I believe that this is who we will be going forward. We are open and honest with each other, it can be both refreshing and painful at times. But we have lost an element of playfulness. It's much more serious.

 

We plan to start doing goofy stuff together and see if we can get some of it back.

 

I'm not really sure why I posted this, other then to hear feed back on others who have noticed slight changes that you miss but found annoying before.

 

 

This made me cry. It made me remember a time shortly before one of the last blowups between my husband and I. I was in the shower singing and my husband was watching me without me realizing it. When I saw him I was embarrassed, and my husband said he thought it was adorable. (I low key loved that he said that)

 

After dday, I thought to myself that as rare as it was that he does something like that, I could probably count on it being even more rare if at all now.

 

For me, when he cheated, I feel I will never let my guard down to him 100% again. I won't allow myself to ever be vulnerable to ANYONE to the extent that I was again.

 

All that isnt to say that we haven't made huge progress in our relationship. I'd venture to say we are both maybe the happiest in our relationship than we've ever been. So these aren't things I dwell on, we are just different people now and we are loving each other's new selves regardless of the past.

[Lotsgoingon]

Since you mention Focus on the Family I'll assume you're Christian. Well, have you heard of Henry Could and John Townscend? They are counselors/therapists who are also Christian, though not necessarily as evangelical as Focus on the Family. It's funny: their insights about relationships are so good ... that you don't need to be a Christian to appreciate their points.

 

Anyway, these guys have cowritten fantastic books on relationships and boundaries. And the book I'll recommend you guys is called Boundaries in Marriage. It's got advice aimed at just where you are. Both partners need to take responsibility for improving things.

 

I actually read your report quite optimistically. I don't sense you guys hate each other are totally destructive. You want her to recover her sassiness ... OMG, that's such a gift you're offering to her. You want her to be less agreeable ... OMG, again another gift you can offer her.

 

Somewhere along the way, it sounds like she lost her confidence ... or withdrew ... shutdown ... so as you create new trust, I would bet her boldness and wit will return. It's just that her personality needs a safe base to build off of. She's probably been "working hard" to quietly put up with stuff she didn't like in the marriage, but didn't know how to constructively address. Tell her you want her to ask for 100 percent of what she wants. You can't give all of that to her (though you might) ... but you want her to know her feelings and desires are appreciated.

 

BTW: you cannot recover the old trust ... But you can rebuild a deeper, more knowing, more real trust going forward. It'll be a better trust based on really knowing the other person and how to help them feel valued. You can get there.

 

Keep going, brother! I used to think affairs were fatal for relationships. I've been around long enough and now I believe what I have heard a lot of marriage counselors say. The affair is often (not always) a symptom of a deeper problem in the marriage. The couple can work on that deeper problem ... create a new relationship that is really satisfying to both of them ... and can get past the affair ... and end up at a place way better than they would have thought they could get to before the affair.

 

P.S. Sounds like your ticket to seeing that great personality of hers emerge again ... is to work on your trust stuff. Work that brother! ... That's what's going bring out the breakthrough. Start with being trusting and open about your fears about trust. Share what your dad said. Do some thinking. You trusting her will create intimacy and way better than before.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Lotsgoingon

[pepperbird]

I totally understand how it can affect your overall sense of playfulness with a person, as well as your trust.

 

Like others, our relationship is actually quite good ( he's back in therapy for his PTSD:)) but it has lost its "innocence" for lack of a better word. Mind you, we do still laugh and have a lot of fun together.

 

We had our 22nd anniversary this past weekend, and we visited "the land of Evangeline" ( the Annapolis Valley), which we used to do a lot when were in university and engaged. Apart from having a lot more wineries, the area hasn't changed much, but we have. Before when we visited, we would always be doing something. We'd ski, go on the trails, visit friends that lived there, go to a pub to watch a band and have a few drinks. We'd talk about our future, how many kids we would have what our jobs would be, where we would live. This weekend? We picked up a basket of things to eat and sat on the grass at Fort Anne, eating our lunch watching the people go by. We talked about retiring, where we want to live and what our kid's futures will be like.

 

Both types of visits were fun in their own way, and maybe a big part of the difference is that we are 22 years older now.

[DKT3]

Yeah, we are maturing as such our relationships have to mature, excluding when I'm around my childhood friends, we seem stuck on 17 whenever we get together.

 

I didnt mention it much, but we also listed ways we felt we had improved. Honestly, they were far more significant in terms of overall quality of our marriage. One example, when we decided to get back together we implemented two weekly walks. The first was to voice concerns or issues we had, the second a few days later was for the other to respond. When suggested to us I thought it was silly. My wife has opened up to me In ways that she had never done. It is a safe place for her knowing I had a few days before I could respond. This has lead to an unbelievable openness. We really no long need to wonder what the other is thinking. I cant really explain how close I feel to her now. Even after almost 30 years.

[Lotsgoingon]

Yeah, we are maturing as such our relationships have to mature, excluding when I'm around my childhood friends, we seem stuck on 17 whenever we get together.

 

I didnt mention it much, but we also listed ways we felt we had improved. Honestly, they were far more significant in terms of overall quality of our marriage. One example, when we decided to get back together we implemented two weekly walks. The first was to voice concerns or issues we had, the second a few days later was for the other to respond. When suggested to us I thought it was silly. My wife has opened up to me In ways that she had never done. It is a safe place for her knowing I had a few days before I could respond. This has lead to an unbelievable openness. We really no long need to wonder what the other is thinking. I cant really explain how close I feel to her now. Even after almost 30 years.

 

Wow, the twice-weekly walks (with time built in for the other partner to think before responding) that sounds like gold to me. Fabulous idea. Glad it is working for you guys.

 

People often open up when they think others will really listen.

[DKT3]

My thinking is often black and white.

 

Think Yoda "do or do not, there is no try"

 

As a result over the years my wife would hold back knowing that I would take a hard line one side or the other.

 

Having a few days before I respond allows me to inject empathy and understanding instead of just going with my instinctive response. So she no longer feels judged, which was never really my intention.

[DKT3]

 

For me, when he cheated, I feel I will never let my guard down to him 100% again. I won't allow myself to ever be vulnerable to ANYONE to the extent that I was again.

 

All that isnt to say that we haven't made huge progress in our relationship. I'd venture to say we are both maybe the happiest in our relationship than we've ever been. So these aren't things I dwell on, we are just different people now and we are loving each other's new selves regardless of the past.

 

Good to see you posting again, I happy things are going well for two.