"That's just how I am"

[TimmyBoy]

I don't imagine they're operating under that assumption. But, experience has taught a woman that there's a strong possibility that the guy is being shady and they're not going to roll the dice on it. They've been burned on it in the past and they're just not going to deal with it.

 

In what sense are they “rolling the dice”?

 

Preraph is clearly making that assumption based on the way she words her posts.

 

There's been plenty of discussion on this thread about learning and growing. And, the women that you are describing are learning and making decisions from their past experiences. In reality, I can't blame them for not wanting to make male friends if they've had issues in the past. The risk (having some guy try to sleaze into their life by being a friend) isn't worth the reward (having a buddy they talk to here and there).

 

The risk of what?

 

We are not talking about whether women should have male friends lest it be a sinister, moustache-twirling ploy to deceive her into having sex with him. We are talking about whether a man asking a female friend out is automatically deceitful. If a woman is asked out by an existing male friend there is no advantage to be gained by assuming the worst of his motives, is there? Why not just say “no thanks”, give him the benefit of the doubt and go back to being friends?

[preraph]

Oats and Hall, regarding your fears about the friendzoned guy, probably if you're around the woman long enough, you'll be able to tell the difference if she's interested in him or not, or in other words "Who is the real orbiter, her or him?" Always remember if they're both interested, it already would have happened. If he's an orbiter type, she may talk about she feels sorry for him or he hasn't many friends or something, and you'd know there isn't a chance in hades that she is interested in him romantically. Women are not interested in their orbiters.

 

From what I've seen with both male and female orbiters, say it's a man with a female orbiter. He will let her hang around feeling like she needs him, but maybe also taking advantage of easy sex. But with females with male orbiters, even though a bf may know what the guy is up to because he is also a guy, not all women do know, and so you wonder why they let them linger. It's usually empathy or just wanting a friend. It's rarely ever because they will use them for sex out of convenience, though there are exceptions, I suppose. But a woman who is attractive enough to attract orbiters usually has no trouble just finding the next romantic partner instead of wasting time that way, so it's rare. And again, it's down to if they were both interested, it would have already happened.

 

In summary, I think female orbiters are more of a threat to a relationship than male orbiters. But you do have to suss out whether the women might be carrying a torch for a guy who's just not interested in making her his girlfriend. However, if that is the case, chances are she won't be getting in real deep with you if she's hung up on the guy. If things are going well, it shouldn't be anything to worry to much about. Because I don't think things would be going well if she had a crush on the peripheral guy.

[SumGuy]

In what sense are they “rolling the dice”?

...

The risk of what?

 

 

Because the guys that do this often at some point feel the girl owes them something. There can be lots of overt pressure, passive aggressive pressure, or just down right whining.

 

 

When the guy is turned down they can freak out, and who knows if this is the guy that gets violent. It's not an unheard of MO, guy feels she only dates jerks, can't she just see what a great nice guy he has been, then he spins it into him being the victim, then the violence starts.

 

 

Certainly the guys often say a lot of hurtful demeaning things. It's sad and can shake a person's faith in their ability to tell good people from bad and in humanity itself.

 

 

Those are the dice and the risks.

[OatsAndHall]

@TimmyBoy

 

 

You're talking about two distinctly different scenarios here:

 

 

1. When we talk about the "friendzone" on this site, we're referring to a group of guys who are keeping in contact with a woman with under the guise of friendship but they're hoping for something more. They're biding their time, waiting for a potential relationship and then spring it on their "friend". And, as another poster pointed out, guys who pop out of the friendzone and become rude or flat out unstable. I've seen it in RL and on threads on this site.

 

 

 

2. Now, it's a different story if two people start off as platonic friends and then it grows into more for one but possibly not the other. That is a tough situation and the individual who is interested romantically needs to approach it in a straightforward manner and understand that he/she may be risking a friendship. "Hey, I know that we're just friends but I have started to develop feelings for you. Can we talk about it?" And, the likelihood of a woman going back to "being friends" is low in these situations because the dynamic of the relationship has changed for them. Instead of viewing a male as a friend that they're comfortable with, they're now looking at them as someone who wants to date them. That tends to remove some of the emotional safety of the friendship for them.

 

 

 

@preraph

 

 

You make an excellent point about female orbiters; I've never viewed it that way. I have single female friends on Facebook who comment on and like my posts but I've put up but they're "Facebook friends", through and through. Our contact is completely limited to "likes" and appropriate comments and I wouldn't consider sleeping with them. I unfriended a woman on Facebook when I was dating my ex-wife. She was posting a lot of music on my page which was fine but then she posted some off-the-wall comment on one of my posts about how she'd been dating and just couldn't find someone like me. I immediately deleted the comment as it wasn't appropriate given that I was seeing someone. And, as much as my ex-wife like to play down her orbiters, she would have flipped ****.

 

 

 

I am working on not getting frustrated with male orbiters on in relationships but it still drives me nuts. My ex-wife had plenty of orbiters, some of them weren't subtle about it and that pissed me off. She made the same point you did about not having any interest in them and feeling that they were harmless. But, I always posed this question; "Why would you want to keep in contact with a guy who is only around to try and get in your pants? Why socialize in any manner with someone who is clearly being deceitful and doesn't have respect for the fact you're married?"

Edited August 15, 2019 by OatsAndHall

[shydad]

OatsAndHall, you have described the two scenarios very well.

[spiderowl]

Yes, there are people like that who just will not take responsibility for being rude. I suspect they are insensitive and are always being pulled up for rudeness. They have got used to being defensive about it because they cannot figure out what they are doing wrong.

 

I read profiles where the profile owner says things like 'I speak my mind' or 'I say it how it is'. There are other phrases as well which I am wary of, such as 'I am a down-to-earth guy'. Often, they will also add 'so if you don't like honesty don't ask me!'. The whole thing suggests a rude character who often offends others.

 

I would not worry about it. Just put them down as rude and insensitive and look for others instead. What is the point wasting time on someone who cannot be diplomatic?

Edited August 23, 2019 by spiderowl