rumination on the effectiveness of OLD

[nospam99]

I wasn't sure whether to post this thread in ISO or in PRC. Decided to post in ISO because it, at least a little, has to do with using OLD as a tool to meet a dating partner. YMMV ... because my observations are specific to my demographics: geographic location (suburbs 2 hours north of NYC) and age of my 'target ladies' (55-65).

 

I'm approaching the end of my second year on OLD. For the first year I met 'interesting' women about once a month. For the next six months I continued to meet women about once a month but the 'quality of the match' had fallen off noticeably. For the last six months, several 'flakes' i.e. sounded interested on the phone before ghosting or begging off, but no meetings. For the last year I had previously observed that I seemed to be 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'. Of some significance, almost all of the women I met are still out there on the OLD sites today.

 

Conclusion: there is a demographic of people, including all those women and ME, 'hunting for a unicorn'. I assume those women still out there two years later have met lots of other men. Yet they are still active on OLD. To be fair, the women I've either met or talked to on the phone had the 'usual' complaints about the men they've met: only want sex, can't support themselves, druggies, creeps, or (otherwise) azzholes (I count myself to be in none of those categories). Oh well (pity party coming ...). The women, in spite of having met me, are still searching. I've met a half dozen of them who I'd be happy to attempt an LTR with had they not decided that I ''wasn't The One''. Maybe when the shoes are on their feet, they are equally frustrated that some of the men they met satisfied what they were looking for but didn't feel the same about them. In any case, they and I are now 'long-term residents' of the regional OLD 'community'.

Edited August 16, 2019 by nospam99

[an0nym0us123]

I don't think it's specific to you or your area. My age range would be 25-33 been on old sites for over a year and there are attractive women still there. I'm picky myself so no doubt that's why I am still single. I guess a lot of people on there are trying to punch as it were.

[Cersei]

One thing that is overlooked is when you meet a certain potential partner in your online search. What I mean by that is if you just start OLDing and have only been at it for a week you may meet someone and think 'meh, not bad.' But after a couple months of it that same person could have been 'amazing' compared to the other trash you have seen.

 

When you are new and fresh you have no clue what else there is out there and may want to see more.

 

Or the reverse can happen too. You may jump at the chance to be with the first person who shows any potential missing out on better ones. . . GUILTY!

[Foxhall]

If you had not gone on these once a month dates, would you have been just sitting at home,

 

so one could argue that OLD is effective in that regard,

 

As a rough guide, you might get 10 dates out of every 100 contacts,

 

if your lucky one of that ten might be very compatible,

 

a unicorn-the gold as such, a rarer find- you might find one online but probably have to cast your net wider,

 

perhaps once every 5 years for the unicorn, I think I may have met one three weeks ago at a sports event, but is the timing wrong when Im seeing someone else,

 

dont know yet.

 

anyway OLD can be successful but maybe not necessarily at your pace, you have to take the hand your dealt and hope for the best.

[mr_ybor]

As a rough guide, you might get 10 dates out of every 100 contacts,

 

 

I'd cut off a leg for an ROI like that!

[Envy123]

It is much easier offline than online for me. I had no luck in OLD, even with women who I wouldn't look at twice offline.

[SumGuy]

OLD has been good for me, at least with Match.

 

 

Similar demographic, seeking women 40-60 (I'm in the middle there) but close to major city (20 min without traffic 90 min with traffic) so thickly settled suburbs.

 

 

I'm really in it for finding that person for a LTR but realize you need to just start and see where it goes without expectations. That means I focus on compatibility and connection as much as looks, in fact no amount of good looks is going to override potential incompatibility issues. I also try to focus on those within 15 miles, or 30 min drive max.

 

 

I'll say my bar for attractiveness is not as high as some guys, I like in shape (for our age) as am I, but a few extra pounds, curvy, good by me have always disliked the fashion model esthetic. Basically a person who has been and is active and eats well is going to pass my looks "bar."

Age has taught me that for me connection makes a person very attractive to me, I mean literally, kind of like beer goggles, but in a completely sober way.

 

 

That all being said I get on average about 4-6 like/messages a day and 1-2 of those I would like/message back except I have to limit it because only want to be engaged with messaging meeting 3 people at any one time. I'm guessing I'm good looking or something to a certain segment, but certainly not a tall, dashing rich guy. I purposefully leave out any material success, I in no way want someone who factors that into their decision (except to the extent I'm not a "bum").

 

 

I think my response rate is fairly similar, when I like someone it's about a 25% chance I'll hear back.

 

 

Only about 1 in 10 of the matches I'm given by the OLD site I agree with but this is very variable.

 

 

The ones that really wow me come up about once or twice a month, of those a third may not be into me, another third we are just not compatible conversationally and sense of humor wise.

 

 

On the last group, my highly limited observation are these women are often the most "beautiful/sexy profile" but really don't seem to be able to converse, joke or have much humor; their conversation seems to be more like a job interview. Question, answer, no organic evolution or riffing/going off what the other person said, expanding on it, etc. not quick of wit, nor any conversation about ideas.

 

 

I think we are all searching for a unicorn, but my unicorn may well not be yours. For some women I meet I can tell I'm there cup of tea, others not at all. That's fine and after doing this a bit, I am 100% me in any meeting, I don't try at all to be a certain way or flatter (as opposed to compliment).

 

 

It has worked out well for me, at least in my view, as in the 4.5 years I have been doing this 3.5 of those years where in 2 relationships each lasting over a year and a half. They end for life reasons, not personal compatibility. One moved cross country another just not ready for a being a couple (basically emotional unavailability for such a relationship given past tragic life events).

 

 

In between many (in my view but YMMV) first meetings with others. I generally only meet a second time if felt there was a connection/chemistry. By the third time it is a date, and if there is a fourth time we see each other for at least a couple months (exclusively, I'm just that way I only sleep with one person at a time).

 

 

Sometimes, like very recently, I will have a great conversation with the person, and find we do have a lot to talk about and can really engage each other (eyes light up on topics) yet there is something missing chemistry wise. I'm up front about it with the person about how they feel about meeting again.

 

 

Honest, up front, direct (but not impolite or crass), say what you mean, be natural, a first meeting is not a "date", a meeting or date is not a job interview. To me these are keys for OLD to even begin to work.

 

 

In general all the women I meet look like their photos, sometimes better, only about 1 in 20 look significantly older/heavier/ etc. than their photos. For me that is not a deal breaker if there is a really great connection (I do get and have sympathy for where they are coming from on that) but that has never really happened.

 

 

In general, all are affable, though I still meet the occasional woman who acts like you are a monkey meant to dance for them, despite my filtering process. Sometimes I'm not sure if they are really that way or they decided your not for them but they don't want to come out and say it and would rather just offend, either way for me it is a deal breaker.

 

 

Overall, I like OLD just need to realize its limitations, there is no substitute for face-to-face meeting (especially not a phone call with someone you've never met, yuck) be yourself to weed out BS early and be patient for the one you really click with to come along.

Edited August 16, 2019 by SumGuy

[OatsAndHall]

I've had many of the same experienced with OLD and I've learned not to let them frustrate me. But, I am running into a new issue via OLD; the "compatibility check list". I've seen it come up with several women and it's been hard to navigate.

 

 

 

I've been running into women who are asking questions and going through a "compatibility checklist" in their heads. Now I understand when they want to be on the same page with religion or politics or other big areas but I've had women who have been getting quiet and strange when there's a small area (i.e. music, film) where we're not necessarily compatible.

 

 

For example, one woman and I were talking about musical tastes and I told her that I didn't listen to a lot of bluegrass. We were having a great chat about music before she asked about that musical genre but the conversation just shut down after that. I could tell that she was putting a check in her mental "incompatibility" box based on that question. I didn't tell her that I didn't like bluegrass and I wasn't rude; I simply stated that I listen to much of it..

 

 

I had the same exact thing happen with another woman when I told her that I was a Stephen King fan when we were talking about books and movies. Same situation; we were chatting away and then I was hit with an uncomfortable pause as she clicked that box in her head. Once again, I wasn't rude or weird; I just stated that I liked that author..

 

 

It has been making it difficult to keep up a conversation and it's kind of frustrating to know that something as minor as a like/dislike in music or cinema is being filed under "con" in the back of their heads. The situations I described both popped up on "marathon dates"; our initial meeting was enough fun to just keep rolling all day. It's almost as if they're looking for something negative..

[SumGuy]

I've had many ofthe same experienced with OLD and I've learned not to let them frustrate me.But, I am running into a new issue via OLD; the "compatibility checklist". I've seen it come up with several women and it's been hard tonavigate.

 

I've been running into women who are asking questions and going through a"compatibility checklist" in their heads. Now I understand when theywant to be on the same page with religion or politics or other big areas butI've had women who have been getting quiet and strange when there's a smallarea (i.e. music, film) where we're not necessarily compatible.

...

It has been making it difficult to keep up a conversation and it's kind offrustrating to know that something as minor as a like/dislike in music orcinema is being filed under "con" in the back of their heads. Thesituations I described both popped up on "marathon dates"; ourinitial meeting was enough fun to just keep rolling all day. It's almost as ifthey're looking for something negative..

 

I encounter this in OLD more often than Ilike despite trying to avoid it. Everyperson who has wanted a phone call first has been like this. I still entertain phone calls but for me talking to a stranger on the phone in this context is just odd, the lack of visual cues makes it very artificial to me. This is not like a business call, you are trying to make an emotional connection here.

 

 

For me, someone who approaches getting to know someone for a potential romantic relationship in what I view as a transactional/business fashion is not someone I want to be with in any way shape or form. I mean is this how we choose our friends? I sure don’t do it by some checklist. No that is how I choose an employee.

 

My navigation consists of trying to figure out if this approach to social interaction is who they are, or more a productof the idea of this is what you are “supposed to do,” or a fallback for lack of the social graces. The latter two areacceptable to me. I may say something like “this seems like a job interview.” The response can tell you a lot.

 

Invariably, phrases such as “Tell me aboutyourself” and “Do you have any questions for me” arise in such situations. These questions may be well meaning, but these are straight up interview questions, they are also put you on the spot questions.

 

The first provides no context, completely open ended, as such it will usually cause a person to pause (a good bit) to just decide what of the many things to tell. That’s why you have a prepared answer for this in a job interview. It has a connotation of asking one to perform given it is phrased as an imperative (even without the exclamation point). It also, to me, shows a real lack of social grace, intelligence, or just laziness,you couldn’t think of one little bit of someone’s profile, anything in the environment you’re in, the news, anything, to provide an starting point for your conversational partner to put them at ease and rapidly launch into conversation. Instead hoping a person will tell you that thing about themselves that leads to connection because they can read yourvery soul; throw them a bit that starts you out where you want to be.

 

On the “Do you have any questions for me?”question. In OLD it is just lazy, a better version is “What can I tell you about me?” One is an inquisition, the other an offer. When this comes up in OLD, it is very hard for me not to laugh. I almost want to say no, I just wanted to look at you and learn about you through osmosis. Believe me I do not sit their silent; which could legitimately prompt such a question.

 

What they don’t get is the whole conversation is a “question,” if they paid attention they’d realize there are questions peppered all throughout the conversation, ones that arise organically; and that I will use answers as a great segue into something a bit more deep. What they don’t get is body language is a question (even if it is a subconscious one) and their body languageis an answer. Making a reference is a question, do you get it, even if not can you riff off it, how do you respond to banter. Bringing up a topic, or something I enjoy is a question, what do you think of it, can you converse about it, etc.

 

All in all, my strategy to navigate this once I realize it is a “check list” meeting is to control my impulse to be sarcastic, finish my beer, then in my head decide what excuse I can use to end the job interview ASAP.

Edited August 17, 2019 by SumGuy

[OatsAndHall]

@SumGuy

 

 

Agreed and I only find this when dating via OLD; it doesn't happen when I meet a woman in RL. Many of the dates I've had recently haven't been enjoyable because of it. It just ruins the spontaneity of conversation in a date and detracts from all the fun. The dates will be clicking along, we'll be laughing and enjoying each other's company and then BAM! it derails with a weird reaction to my answer to a completely innocuous question. I had been seeing a woman for four weeks (we'd seen ALOT of each other in four weeks..) and it still came up:

 

 

Her: "I'd love to go camping this weekend, do you like camping?"

 

 

Me: "Of course, there's a few great spots where I go to camp and fish."

 

 

Her: "So.. You only go camping to fish?"

 

 

Me: "No, but I do like to camp near streams and rivers so I can fish and also enjoy the rest of the camping experience."

 

 

DEAD SILENCE (Her running through her pro/com list)

 

 

Her: "Well, are you like going to be gone all day fishing when we camp??"

 

 

Me: "No... I'll to fish, hike, sit around a camp fire and what not when we camp."

 

 

DEAD SILENCE (Again.. She was checking those boxes..)

 

 

Her: "What am I going to do when you're fishing? I don't like fishing."

 

 

You get the gist of how the rest of the conversation went...

[elaine567]

Her: "I'd love to go camping this weekend, do you like camping?"

Me: "Of course, there's a few great spots where I go to camp and fish."

Her: "So.. You only go camping to fish?"

Me: "No, but I do like to camp near streams and rivers so I can fish and also enjoy the rest of the camping experience."

DEAD SILENCE (Her running through her pro/com list)

Her: "Well, are you like going to be gone all day fishing when we camp??"

Me: "No... I'll to fish, hike, sit around a camp fire and what not when we camp."

DEAD SILENCE (Again.. She was checking those boxes..)

Her: "What am I going to do when you're fishing? I don't like fishing."

You get the gist of how the rest of the conversation went...

Yes but that is pretty practical thinking based on what you told her.

She has NO interest in camping on a riverbank watching you fish, so from being a plus ie you both love camping, on further questioning revealed a big minus.

That is normal surely?

 

I guess she has been on that road trip before with a guy.

Mutual activity turns into something he wants to do and she is left waiting around for him...

[SumGuy]

@SumGuy

Her: "I'd love to go camping this weekend, do you like camping?"

Me: "Of course, there's a few great spots where I go to camp and fish."

Her: "So.. You only go camping to fish?"

Me: "No, but I do like to camp near streams and rivers so I can fish and also enjoy the rest of the camping experience."

DEAD SILENCE (Her running through her pro/com list)

Her: "Well, are you like going to be gone all day fishing when we camp??"

Me: "No... I'll to fish, hike, sit around a camp fire and what not when we camp."

DEAD SILENCE (Again.. She was checking those boxes..)

Her: "What am I going to do when you're fishing? I don't like fishing."

 

You get the gist of how the rest of the conversation went...

 

 

Yah I'd say she has been burned when on dates before, and she may really detest fishing which is not unheard of.

 

 

After the last question what did you say?

 

 

For me I would say, no worries, I can skip the fishing. Even go so far as to not bring a rod. I'd also try to explore what about it she doesn't like...in a way that is respectful, such as you get a lot of people don't like fishing, some for the ick factor, some for the boring factor, others for the life of the fish factor, some all three. etc. Maybe there is a compromise, like a firm limit on fishing time half hour, hour or until something caught; maybe not. Personally to me a fresh caught trout camping is delicious, but get that some people are put off by the reality of where there food comes from.

 

 

I wasn't there but it can be a fine line between legitimate and fun questioning about such a thing and fixating on it to the exclusion of all else and what you say.

Edited August 17, 2019 by SumGuy

[Gretchen12]

Effectiveness? I thought OLD was very efficient. A few years ago I tried OK Cupid and was on it for only a week. Signed up on Monday, lots of hi's and likes the first day, around 100 the first day then tapers off. Only three guys asked to meet during that week or the weekend. I exchanged messages with a few others but the ones that kept chatting without asking to meet are on the back burner. I met a guy on Saturday and took my profile down on Monday because I already have the contact info of a handful of people and I didn't want more messages that I'll have to answer. I was in a relationship with that one I met the weekend that lasted less than a year. After it ended I didn't go back to OKCupid. I met other men IRL and it's no worse, certainly less work.

[mr_ybor]

Effectiveness? I thought OLD was very efficient. A few years ago I tried OK Cupid and was on it for only a week. Signed up on Monday, lots of hi's and likes the first day, around 100 the first day then tapers off.

 

Congrats on being born (straight/bi) female.

[Tamfana]

--

For me, someone who approaches getting to know someone for a potential romantic relationship in what I view as a transactional/business fashion is not someone I want to be with in any way shape or form. I mean is this how we choose our friends? I sure don’t do it by some checklist. No that is how I choose an employee.---

 

Right. But OLD *is* transactional from the very moment you sign up and pay a fee. OLD sites are themselves businesses, businesses that provide access to a database of strangers advertising to strangers. The advertisements are presented to appeal to a certain market, if you will. The premise and structure OLD sites are far more like applying for a job or selling a product than developing friendships with people who are already known to you.

 

-- After it ended I didn't go back to OKCupid. I met other men IRL and it's no worse, certainly less work.

 

Amen to that. OLD is a ton of work.

[OatsAndHall]

@elaine567

 

 

I understood where she was coming from but she was assuming that I was going to just ditch her and fish the entire time. That is something that may have happened to her in the past but I certainly wasn't going to do it.

 

 

In an earlier comment, she had mentioned that she loved to pull out a book and read when camping. So, I didn't figure it would be a big deal if I fished next to our camp site while she read. We had also talked, in detail, about doing a ton of hiking so I just kind of planned on doing that anyway.

 

 

I told her that I could just leave my rod at home if it was going to bother her but that turned into another uncomfortable conversation ("I want you to enjoy camping too but I hate fishing.").

 

 

It wasn't the conversation that bothered me, it was the "compatibility check". When she'd get quiet and weird like that, she would get kind of defensive and start going through her "pro/con" list internally. The conversation became kind of confrontational because she had already taken a negative mind set because she wasn't thinking of us as "compatible."

[SumGuy]

@elaine567

...

In an earlier comment, she had mentioned that she loved to pull out a book and read when camping. So, I didn't figure it would be a big deal if I fished next to our camp site while she read. We had also talked, in detail, about doing a ton of hiking so I just kind of planned on doing that anyway.

That makes perfect sense, wait you didn't grill her about what you were supposed to do while reading? Just kidding.

 

I told her that I could just leave my rod at home if it was going to bother her but that turned into another uncomfortable conversation ("I want you to enjoy camping too but I hate fishing.").

To me yikes! Very close to damned if you do damned if you don't territory. It has nothing to do with the fishing but you wonder if such a person says you can do something if they really mean it.

 

It wasn't the conversation that bothered me, it was the "compatibility check". When she'd get quiet and weird like that, she would get kind of defensive and start going through her "pro/con" list internally. The conversation became kind of confrontational because she had already taken a negative mind set because she wasn't thinking of us as "compatible."

Who knows if it was a compatibility check pause, but certainly something was off. I don't mind pauses so much because I like to pause at times, just because I like to think before speaking (sometimes ) it has nothing to do with judging.

 

 

The confrontational tone/negative assumption part would worry me the most.

 

 

I will say in all the "job interview" dates / interactions I have had there is always that confrontational / negative tone at some point. It's like your on the stand or something; except less respectful (don't go by TV witness questioning).

 

 

I think it is kind of sad this happen as it appears to be fairly standard dating advice for successful women to find a man.

Who am I to say though, maybe it gets them the guys they want.

[Happy Lemming]

@nospam99

 

I've read several of your threads about OLD, and I don't think anything has changed in 15+ years since I tried OLD. I tried on-line dating briefly, found it to be a disaster and gave up on it.

 

Your situation reminds me of a lesson I learned many years ago when trying to remove an exhaust manifold on an old Ford. I put penetrating oil on all of the studs prior to attempting to remove them. The first nut on the stud I tried to turn broke off immediately. Then I tried a second nut and that broke off, as well. So I stopped and thought, do I want to break every single stud on this head or do I want to try something different. I went and got my torch and heated up the next stud and the nut came off and so did all the rest. I learned if something doesn't work, don't just keep repeating the same procedure over and over again, as the result will probably be the same.

[SumGuy]

Right. But OLD *is* transactional from the very moment you sign up and pay a fee. OLD sites are themselves businesses, businesses that provide access to a database of strangers advertising to strangers. The advertisements are presented to appeal to a certain market, if you will. The premise and structure OLD sites are far more like applying for a job or selling a product than developing friendships with people who are already known to you.

.

 

Just because someone wraps up our social activities in a business model to facilitate them doesn't transform the age old process of talking with someone to find emotional connection into a transaction, unless you let it. Don't let the form take over the substance, or is it don't let the tail wag the dog.

[OatsAndHall]

@SumGuy... I would like to say that it's just her but here's another example of a conversation that I had on a date with an OLD match at the beginning of the summer:

 

 

(Context: we're both teachers)

 

 

Me: "Not having a summer job is going to be strange for me. I'm used to being busy and I like it that way."

Her: "Oh, do you always work in the summer?"

 

Me: "Generally, yes, I do. I try to find at least part time work. It keeps me busy and I like to make a little extra money."

 

 

DEAD SILENCE

 

 

Her: "I like having my summers off; I get to do a ton of traveling. Don't you enjoy traveling in the summer?"

Me: "Yup, I do like traveling and I always manage to fit it in while working in the summer." (Thinking to myself: "Yes, I find ways to travel the same way people that DON'T have summers off do..)

Her: "I went to Europe for two months one summer. That's not something you'd be able to do if you were working all summer.."

Me (getting uncomfortable): "Nope, that's something that I wouldn't be able to do."

 

 

DEAD SILENCE

 

 

Her: "You said you'd like to go to Europe so how would you do that if you were working all summer."

Me (More uncomfortable): "I'd plan just have to plan for a shorter trip; I couldn't go on a two-month long vacation in the summer with football anyway." (We'd talked extensively about my summers and coaching football)

 

 

 

DEAD SILENCE

 

 

Her: "I was planning on going on a long trip to Europe next summer. I've always wanted someone to go with."

Me (Uncomfortable, irritated, and wanting to get out of there): "Yup, traveling with someone is great but I can't be out of town for two months in the summer."

 

 

 

A few things to bear in mind:

 

 

1. This was a first date and she was talking about us traveling to Europe together.

2. It came out later that she'd put her last Europe trip on a credit card and was struggling to pay it off.

 

 

:rolleyes:

[Tamfana]

Just because someone wraps up our social activities in a business model to facilitate them doesn't transform the age old process of talking with someone to find emotional connection into a transaction, unless you let it. Don't let the form take over the substance, or is it don't let the tail wag the dog.

 

So your objection is only to the style of the initial conversations, *how* people frame and phrase their inquiries?

 

I think I'm friendly and open when I ask a date about himself, but heck yeah, I'm assessing potential compatibility the whole time. I'd hope he is too.

[Happy Lemming]

Her: "I was planning on going on a long trip to Europe next summer. I've always wanted someone to go with."

 

Translation: I want to go back to Europe and I want you to pay for it, as I'm having trouble paying off my credit card from the last trip.

[OatsAndHall]

So your objection is only to the style of the initial conversations, *how* people frame and phrase their inquiries?

 

I think I'm friendly and open when I ask a date about himself, but heck yeah, I'm assessing potential compatibility the whole time. I'd hope he is too.

 

 

Yes, the interview tone and their response to various questions is unnerving. It's a roller coaster; they're ecstatic when they can check the "pro" box but they shut down when they come across an area of (perceived) incompatibility. And, I understand major areas of compatibility but I'm going to get uncomfortable when the fact that I don't listen to bluegrass music has some how been construed as a major point of incompatibility. I listen to hard, heavy metal when sometimes but I don't expect that a woman I date do the same...

 

 

 

And, IMO, I start to wonder about an individual's ability to compromise and communicate when this stuff happens. Take the camping/fishing example; I don't see any reason why she couldn't read her book for an hour and I could do some fishing. At the very least, it's something to discuss.. Not automatically assume that I'm going to ditch her at the campsite for an entire weekend and fish..

[Tamfana]

Translation: I want to go back to Europe and I want you to pay for it, as I'm having trouble paying off my credit card from the last trip.

 

I was chatting with a guy the other day and said nearly what that woman said, I was planning a trip to Europe next spring with my daughter but we won't be able to do it so maybe I can go with a boyfriend if I have one by then. I must be angling for some poor rube to pay my way.

 

I guess I'd better go with one of my girlfriends from the coven. We'll just have to steer clear of Zugarramurdi.

[elaine567]

I can see where the teacher is coming from too. She has lovely long summers that she wants to fill with a teacher as a companion, who also can get the summer off.

You work the summer holidays, so why would she see you as compatible?

She was testing the waters too, if she was going to Europe would you ditch your summer job to join her? NO.

So not a lot left to say.

You got uncomfortable as you realised with your uncompromising position regarding summer work, meant your chances of impressing this woman were ebbing away...

 

What was she supposed to do? Tell you she would stay at home in the summer to keep you company?