rumination on the effectiveness of OLD

[Tamfana]

Yes, the interview tone and their response to various questions is unnerving. It's a roller coaster; they're ecstatic when they can check the "pro" box but they shut down when they come across an area of (perceived) incompatibility. And, I understand major areas of compatibility but I'm going to get uncomfortable when the fact that I don't listen to bluegrass music has some how been construed as a major point of incompatibility. I listen to hard, heavy metal when sometimes but I don't expect that a woman I date do the same...

 

And, IMO, I start to wonder about an individual's ability to compromise and communicate when this stuff happens. Take the camping/fishing example; I don't see any reason why she couldn't read her book for an hour and I could do some fishing. At the very least, it's something to discuss.. Not automatically assume that I'm going to ditch her at the campsite for an entire weekend and fish..

 

Maybe you could say, "yeah, I fish but not all day every day. I'm sure we could work it out. <smile> What are your favorite things to do camping?" Or maybe she's just picky or ambivalent about partnering up at all. There are a lot of people online who are plowing away at OLD but actually ambivalent.

[OatsAndHall]

I can see where the teacher is coming from too. She has lovely long summers that she wants to fill with a teacher as a companion, who also can get the summer off.

You work the summer holidays, so why would she see you as compatible?

She was testing the waters too, if she was going to Europe would you ditch your summer job to join her? NO.

So not a lot left to say.

You got uncomfortable as you realised with your uncompromising position regarding summer work, meant your chances of impressing this woman were ebbing away...

 

What was she supposed to do? Tell you she would stay at home in the summer to keep you company?

 

 

The overall context and tone of the conversation was just uncomfortable for me. I didn't become uncomfortable because I stopped "impressing" her; her ton and the question just sucked the fun out of the date. She went from laughing and having a good time to confrontational when that topic came up. She became slightly angry and annoyed that I would choose to work during summers. I may be have summers off but we're also both teachers; working in the summer isn't a choice sometimes as income can be limited. And, regardless of the potential income issue, talking about a two month trip to Europe with someone you've only known a few weeks goes beyond "testing the waters"; it's a giant leap in a conversation.

 

 

 

If not being able to travel to Europe for a huge stretch of time is a deal breaker for her, than she's going to be sorely disappointed consistently. People aren't going to be able to afford it or get the time off of work. She'd better start considering anyone who doesn't own their own business and makes less than $100k/year "incompatible". Even bringing that up with a teacher who as the summers off isn't reasonable as that is going to be an expensive trip.. Something she was well aware of given that she'd put it on a credit card that she was still paying off two years later. And, that raised a red flag for me anyway; there is no way I'd throw a giant trip on a credit card.

 

 

 

All and all, it just ruined what was a fun date at first. And, I am finding that more and more with OLD. A potential incompatibility comes up in conversation, the whole landscape of the date changes at the drop of a hat and it's ruined. And, IMO, that should be the primary goal of a date; to enjoy each other's company and have a good time. Yes, we'll both be feeling each other out a bit but the interview atmosphere sucks.

[elaine567]

All and all, it just ruined what was a fun date at first. And, I am finding that more and more with OLD. A potential incompatibility comes up in conversation, the whole landscape of the date changes at the drop of a hat and it's ruined. And, IMO, that should be the primary goal of a date; to enjoy each other's company and have a good time. Yes, we'll both be feeling each other out a bit but the interview atmosphere sucks.

 

The whole OLD process no doubt concentrates minds and I guess many are using first dates to filter out the people who do not IRL tick even more boxes.

Instead of a relaxed get to know you session it is maybe more about focusing in on potential conflict zones and if the wrong answer given, the date is then essentially finished. NO time to waste. Next!

[OatsAndHall]

The whole OLD process no doubt concentrates minds and I guess many are using first dates to filter out the people who do not IRL tick even more boxes.

Instead of a relaxed get to know you session it is maybe more about focusing in on potential conflict zones and if the wrong answer given, the date is then essentially finished. NO time to waste. Next!

 

 

Yes, that is the feeling that I have been getting lately. Unfortunately, it's backfiring in many cases. Even when there's been obvious compatibility, I've been turned off by the first couple if dates as they were either boring or just uncomfortable.

[SumGuy]

So your objection is only to the style of the initial conversations, *how* people frame and phrase their inquiries?

 

 

I guess phrasing but more tone and attitude. So on paper two conversations could be exactly the same but differ in tone, delivery and attitude. I'm not focusing so much on the syntax but particular commenting on a particular style of conversation (yet one that often employs a certain syntax).

 

 

I think OatsandHall has given examples of what I'm talking to; trying to pin down a certain type of interaction that I think both OatesandHall and I have had.

 

 

I'm also trying to caveat what I say that just because someone says "Tell me about yourself" or "Do you have any questions for me?," or has the question check list going on, doesn't mean all the people who do this fall under the "job interview" type interaction I dislike.

 

 

So I'm not saying all the people that do this are "job interviewing," but for all those times I've felt like in a "job interview" this was the way of the conversation. A genus and species type thing.

 

 

I'm also not saying "job interview" type interactions are bad, just certainly not for me. They may well be the way to get certain types of men.

 

 

Also sharing the why I dislike them...especially for those who don't see it the same way as I do but feel they may have put off a date because of it and wonder why and what to do about it.

 

I think I'm friendly and open when I ask a date about himself, but heck yeah, I'm assessing potential compatibility the whole time. I'd hope he is too.

 

 

Exactly. The friendly and open part is key. The whole meeting is about compatibly assessment. I'm no different.

 

 

I never got the "friendly and open" vibe in the "job interview" type dates I've had. More guarded, assessing, lacking a sense of humor and potentially even confrontational and negative.

 

 

I did have one date where she admitted it was like a job interview, she literally had a list of questions written down (I'm in the older set, we still use paper ). Cool she could joke about it, and that's all it took to turn it into something fun.

 

 

For me I don't mind any question, if it is too personal or inappropriate will simply decline to answer, perhaps with a joke type comment to express the too personal for now nature. I'm more interested if there is a conversational flow or is it more a deposition. For me conversational flow is a huge part of connection.

 

 

I understand some men do the "job interview" / "deposition" type questioning as well, with a large side order of judgment thrown in.

[SumGuy]

 

All and all, it just ruined what was a fun date at first. And, I am finding that more and more with OLD. A potential incompatibility comes up in conversation, the whole landscape of the date changes at the drop of a hat and it's ruined. And, IMO, that should be the primary goal of a date; to enjoy each other's company and have a good time. Yes, we'll both be feeling each other out a bit but the interview atmosphere sucks.

 

 

It does, but wouldn't be surprised. The other person went on the date hoping for compatibility, then something comes up that is a big issue for them. Naturally there may be a little screeching of the brakes.

 

 

It's good to know though, even if unpleasant.

It is all the more difficult when we see our behavior as not that odd and something that can be worked on but it becomes a deal breaker for the other person.

 

 

I think it is more the feeling that we seem to be compatible in so many ways, but not this one, so this is not going to be given a chance because we don't line up 100%; even if reasonable people could work it out?

Don't get me wrong, I have my deal breakers that no amount of anything else will overcome, they are just more commonly viewed as major. Yet to each their own.

[SumGuy]

Yes, that is the feeling that I have been getting lately. Unfortunately, it's backfiring in many cases. Even when there's been obvious compatibility, I've been turned off by the first couple if dates as they were either boring or just uncomfortable.

 

Not really backfiring in my view. Do you want a person who see the world this way and interacts this way?

 

 

Sounds like you are more of the mind that your level for what constitutes a deal breaker may have more to do with character than lifestyle details. That you are willing to work through some lifestyle incompatibility. Wouldn't you want someone who feels the same?

[OatsAndHall]

I had an OLD date last night that was relaxed, fun and we got to know quite a bit about one another. As she became more comfortable throughout the date, she opened up more about herself, her likes and dislikes, her past, her family, etc..etc.. And the same was true for me and it just happened organically within the conversation. I know we were both doing a little bit of weighing and measuring but it was subtle and it didn't interfere with the flow of conversation or the date.

 

 

 

The "interview" trend in with these dates frustrates me as I enjoy a good conversation and can be quite chatty. I enjoy dating because I get to meet someone new, relax talk with them, laugh and have fun interacting. Sometimes we click and we're compatible, sometimes we don't; it's the nature of the game. But, I really don't like spending what little free time I have sitting at a coffee shop interview. That just completely detracts from my primary goal of dating.

[nospam99]

I just noticed this and thought it was 'interesting enough' (to me) to bore the rest of you...

 

June 23-July 23: 5 responses to 27 messages on Match and POF = 18.5%. All three messages to POF (which has gone WAY downhill in the last year) were ignored.

 

July 24 to August 24: 6 responses to 12 messages, all on Match = 50%.

 

No meetings though. One woman in July and two in August 'flaked' i.e. said they 'wanted' to meet me and then ghosted. The 'adventure' continues ....

[an0nym0us123]

Pof is dire, no one talks and I rarely initiate anything on there anymore.

 

I used to have a paid subscription, you could see if your message was read or not. Don't ask me why but one night I messaged this girl, late 20s, single unemployed mum, smokes, no car. Very average looks. Again don't ask me why I messaged her. My message was marked as unread and deleted. Like seriously?

 

Anther time matched with a girl on tinder, she was stunning! No kids, 30 yr old, university lecturer. She messages me first. She thought I was great. Sadly she was just passing through the area and was gutted we couldn't meet!

 

Go figure

[thefooloftheyear]

Didn't read the whole thread, just the OP and a smattering of responses..

 

I think the problem is the age range...I think a lot of women in the OP's age range are not really looking all that hard for a mate...I mean, sure, there are likely to be a few desperate types, but in most cases they aren't all that desirable on many levels...Certainly not by the standards most men would desire in a mate...

 

If you think about it practically, (and I have heard this directly from older women), most don't want to upset their routine at this stage...Many are no longer all that sexual, have health or body image issues, and know the guy will probably want sex so that will be a problem...Many have a good circle of friends and family/kids/grandkids to keep them occupied...

 

So the obvious question then is why are they putting themselves out there? I believe its simply because people urge them to, or they feel like its not that much effort or money spent, and if the "one in a million" scenario arises, then they can entertain that possibility...Perhaps its better to meet someone organically through your circle of family/friends,etc...This way they get to know you a bit better..??I dunno..

 

Bear in mind I know nothing about OLD other than what I read here and from people I know who have used it...I just think its a situation where you have your line in the water and have a good bait, the fish are there but not biting...I don't think its anything negative with the person trying...

 

TFY

[elaine567]

I know we were both doing a little bit of weighing and measuring but it was subtle and it didn't interfere with the flow of conversation or the date.

 

I think that is how intelligent and socially aware/adept people tend to work.

[SumGuy]

...

I think the problem is the age range...I think a lot of women in the OP's age range are not really looking all that hard for a mate...

If you mean marriage, yes not really interested in that and certainly not in more kids. But the vast majority in my experience at least say they are looking for the long term/rest of life companion.

 

 

I mean, sure, there are likely to be a few desperate types, but in most cases they aren't all that desirable on many levels...Certainly not by the standards most men would desire in a mate...

No and No.

Looking for a companion to spend your time with is not desperate. Your wrong on the second part as well. There are plenty attractive women at 45, 50, 55, even 60. Not as a percentage compared to 20 year olds; but I suspect the percentage of women 45+ that are in shape is not much different than the percentage of men in shape at 45+.

 

 

Usually I find an in shape women 45+ also has her life together. Also the wonderful thing about dating in your 50's if you meet someone who is in shape at 50 it's very unlikely they will get out of shape, after all this is the product of a decades long lifestyle. As opposed to someone in there 20s who is just beginning the slow slide to out of shape.

 

If you think about it practically, (and I have heard this directly from older women), most don't want to upset their routine at this stage.......Many have a good circle of friends and family/kids/grandkids to keep them occupied...

That is true, and can be a disconnect between expressed desires and actions. Same for men though.

You can take it as I don't want to change anything or lets have fun melding our two lives together. It really comes down to personality type, not all people place routine above all else, some are very much the opposite (to the extent the practicalities of life permit). Or perhaps the secret is to meet someone fairly recently divorced who hasn't locked in lifestyle that prohibits a full romance.

 

 

...Many are no longer all that sexual, have health or body image issues, and know the guy will probably want sex so that will be a problem...

Maybe I am filtering out those with low libido up front, but can say this is far, far from my experience.

Maybe it goes with being active and in shape, don't know. Can say that older women (45+) are much more "sexual" than those from my youth, they are much more relaxed and aggressive (in a very good way). Now they might be more selective and better able to be calm if they are not into you, but there is plenty of passion if you meet their criteria. Kind of scary (also in a very good way) actually

 

 

 

Perhaps its better to meet someone organically through your circle of family/friends,etc...This way they get to know you a bit better..??I dunno..

Perhaps, but there are far fewer people in a social circle than OLD, let alone available people.

These circles are usually a bit stronger and less amorphous than when in your 20s. So it can be very awkward if things don't work out with someone in your social circle as you will still be seeing them or at least your friends will. Just because a person seems good in a social circle doesn't mean they can't get very odd in a romantic relationship. Trust me, tried the social circle route and it is no panacea.

[Ruby Slippers]

Dating sites didn't work for me. It's very easy to get a date or mini-relationship, much harder in my experience to find a good match for long term. I met only men who were good on paper with deficiencies on the romantic side, or men who were fun and romantic but had issues on the practical side. I tried very hard to twist myself into a pretzel and conform with one of these situations, but couldn't do it.

 

I feel that by now the odds of me meeting the right guy are slim, but if it's going to happen, it's more likely to happen the old-fashioned way through natural connections via friends and other contacts.

[nospam99]

I've been legitimately accused of being negative about OLD. Mea culpa. But at the risk of repeating myself or other posters, there is nevertheless a set of specific advantages that OLD provides ...

 

- you can assume (but not be certain) that the people who post profiles on OLD are unattached and searching for a relationship

- you can see what they look like (or looked like at one time)

- you can learn as much about their character and interests as they have written in their profiles

 

These advantages 'beat' a couple of other 'avenues' for meeting potential romantic partners:

- in a bar, at a party, or in any other 'cold approach' situation all you have to go on is 'looks'. You don't know if the person is unattached or anything about their character or interests.

- if you're set up by friends, you're dependent on those friends. Your friends may or may not have photos of your 'blind date' to allow you to assess 'looks'. You can only hope that your friends only set you up with people they know are unattached and compatible with your character and interests.

[thefooloftheyear]

But the vast majority in my experience at least say they are looking for the long term/rest of life companion.

 

 

.

 

IME., No way are the "vast majority" older people(say...over early 50's) looking for a long term/rest of life companion...From what I have seen, it could best be quantified as 'some" and its mostly a "if I happen to fall into it, great, but I am not going to put a ton of effort into it" scenario..Lets face it...there isn't any real effort to put ones mug online and see what happens...It doesn't then even mean they are making a legitimate effort...Its like people that send out resumes even though they are happy at their job...they don't have to be actively looking, but will throw it out there in the event of a deal too good to be true..

 

Most of the people I know are in this age group...The ones that are available to actually put themselves out there are not actively looking...Most of the guys are probably a combination of bitter towards women for the **** deal they got in a divorce, others probably lost their sex drive or ability to perform and don't care to do anything about it...the women just seem more content to hang and travel with their girlfriends, not worry so much about their weight and appearance(knowing that would be critical if they actually wanted to date), and concern themselves more about their family and animals...

 

Even having been on this site for a while, it is obvious that there are a number of the same women you see for a long time continuing to just give advice, talk about everything etc.. But you never hear them talking about their dating situation or who they are meeting...From what I can tell, there is nothing wrong with them, and I find them to be quite "high quality" but never seem to ever hear of their attempts at dating...Now, its entirely possible that they are trying but not reporting about it, but I kinda doubt it, only because they seem to have the same demeanor as the people I know in real life...

 

I think this is one of the main reasons for the OP's struggle.....he's good enough for many from what I can tell, but there aren't many out there that fit the bill and of the ones that are, they don't seem all that enthusiastic, from what I glean from his posts...

 

TFY

Edited September 9, 2019 by thefooloftheyear

[chillii]

During my brief online career l met , late 40s 50s, still interested in a companion for sure , don't know about older women though.

But what l did notice and you see it round here to and in people l know of, they just don't wanna go through more bs, people are just past the bullshyt part.

Guys l know are still full of beans but tend to just bring younger chicks home for fun they aren't looking for serious because in that way they're just over women.

A few of the women l know early 50s one told me just the other day she's out, had enough. Another ones gone into property investing so l think she's out too. Another one spends most of her time with her gay guy friend, think they have some kind of thing going just not in the sleeping together sense,

 

Women l met on the date though did genuinely still hope and l'd say date sites are better like that and they are interested enough to dangle a line for sure, just past the bs. Notice a lot too older women do sabotage in advance too , it's like a shoot the bs before it gets you thing.

Edited September 9, 2019 by chillii

[elaine567]

IME., No way are the "vast majority" older people(say...over early 50's) looking for a long term/rest of life companion...

 

Nospam is 65, he is dealing with women in their late 50s/60s mainly.

I also highly doubt many of these women are actively looking or are desperate for a mate.

If "George Clooney" shows up then maybe...

[SumGuy]

IME., No way are the "vast majority" older people(say...over early 50's) looking for a long term/rest of life companion...[From what I have seen, it could best be quantified as 'some" and its mostly a "if I happen to fall into it, great, but I am not going to put a ton of effort into it" scenario..

That could be true, I will say that the vast majority of profiles that I look at that are not an immediate pass, they say they are looking for long term / partner in crime / companion. I could well be selecting out those who do not have that view and I'm looking more at 45-60. It could be the site as well.

 

 

Lets face it...there isn't any real effort to put ones mug online and see what happens...It doesn't then even mean they are making a legitimate effort...Its like people that send out resumes even though they are happy at their job...they don't have to be actively looking, but will throw it out there in the event of a deal too good to be true..

I see those profiles all the time, the minimal effort shows so it's a quick pass on that.

 

Most of the people I know are in this age group...The ones that are available to actually put themselves out there are not actively looking...

My experience is with respect to those in OLD who have a real profile, not a pic or two and a few lines from the auto-generating feature of the site.

 

 

Most of the guys are probably a combination of bitter towards women for the **** deal they got in a divorce, others probably lost their sex drive or ability to perform and don't care to do anything about it...

Oh I certainly have heard those stories from female friends. Some guys seem to be into OLD just to complain and meet women to complain/mansplain to them. Of course my comments are with respect to women since those are the ones I date.

 

 

the women just seem more content to hang and travel with their girlfriends, not worry so much about their weight and appearance(knowing that would be critical if they actually wanted to date), and concern themselves more about their family and animals...

Well that is why I say the vast majority I see "say" they want long term, etc. That doesn't mean they really act on it or they have not set a high bar for it.

I agree though, there are plenty of profiles like you describe that focus so much on travel, family and animals that don't see any place for an "us" in all that so on those I pass.

Still the vast majority of those profiles still "say" they want long term/companion. And I take them at their word, but in my view that means to them someone who will take care of it all for them.

No thanks; I want a partner not a ward.

[chillii]

My personal view , a lot of women have given up on finding that someone, like the two l spoke about.

This is why l think in a way date sites are good like that because not all though, but especially younger and as guy said some are making an effort and the only ones l bothered with also and then only a very select few of those.

Scanning through though you also saw many others had completely lost the plot, attitudes and pretty well man hating right there but also easily spotted.

l only met women that were still sensitive and still had love and hope, also very easily spotted too.

Edited September 10, 2019 by chillii

[nospam99]

Me (OP) again ....

 

'Nothing much' happening. But I have yet another observation about relative OLD effectiveness.

- I drop into ourtime for a month every now and then when they have 50% discounts. No luck last time. Had a couple of cold leads the time before.

- I'm unpaid on OKCupid. Paying them is a waste because the last time I looked 95% of the pay-to-see contacts were scams.

- Unpaid on POF. Nevertheless I get unsolicited (and undesirable) contacts a couple of times a month - a better frequency than actual dates back when I wasn't scraping the bottom of the barrel. At this point I'm just entertained watching the 'same old' bunch of women who have been there for one or two years still logging in almost every day.

 

What prompted this post is to note the 'effectiveness' of Match, at least in contrast to the three sites I mentioned above. It has a large 'population' of women in my target demographic AND, importantly, a steady but slow infusion of 'new blood'. This morning yet another 'new' woman with 'most of the ducks lined up' appeared in my 'dailies'. Can't say that for the other sites. 'The story continues'.

[Happy Lemming]

AND, importantly, a steady but slow infusion of 'new blood'.

 

Have you noticed if there is more "new blood" after the Holiday Season?? I imagine a lot of people may be too busy for a new relationship over the holidays or they may join an on-line dating site as part of a New Year's resolution??

 

Just wondering if you'll have better luck after 01-01-20??

[nospam99]

@HL. I suppose I'll see in about six weeks. On the other side of the coin, perhaps 'lonely' (or maybe better characterized as 'alone') people may be more motivated DURING the holiday season as they see 'connected' friends and colleagues in (apparently) happy relationships. But in 'my' demographic (60-somethings with children and grandchildren), people are not alone or lonely for the holidays because, even if they don't have romantic relationships, they have family.

[Happy Lemming]

But in 'my' demographic (60-somethings with children and grandchildren), people are not alone or lonely for the holidays because, even if they don't have romantic relationships, they have family.

 

Yes, that is what I was thinking.

 

I'm picturing (a woman in your demographic) baking cookies for the grandchildren, decorating the Christmas tree, wrapping presents (for grand kids), etc.

[elaine567]

OK but not all women have children/grandchildren and not all mothers/grandmothers are in close geographical contact with their kids either.

Kids are often no longer "round the corner" and may be thousands of miles away. Even with social media and a desire to "keep in touch", it may still be a lonely Xmas for the parent "left behind". Older kids often want to start their own family traditions with their own kids and if Mom is too far away to join in, then Mom may end up spending Xmas alone.

Second families may vie for attention too, "kids" can sometimes want to spend time with Dad and his new wife and their kids, than spend time with a single and lonely Mom...

Single women can be also be seen as pariahs to happy married couples, so those Xmas party invites from friends may not be forthcoming either.