Is there anyway of reversing rejection?

[NuevoYorko]

For who exactly and why? Its not like any of them bother to show any interest in me so why should I bend over backwards for them?

 

Right. Here's a fun fact for you: A large portion of the population, arguably the happiest and most fulfilled by their relationships with others, have the capacity to care about people without needing to get something in return.

 

 

Sorry I used to subscribe to the beg an grovel mentality but no longer. I also wont bother listening to women complaining, why because they are in the position to choose, most men are not so why complain if it was you who made those wrong choices, go out there and make better ones.

 

Who has suggested that you should beg and grovel? That would be bad advice for anyone.

 

Question: You spend probably more time than any other LS poster complaining here. Do you think you have more "right" to garner attention for it than a woman would?

 

Your sense of entitlement is pretty stunning. I'm sure I've said it before, but it is not an attractive trait in anyone, man or woman.

 

You see here I differ, why shouldn't a women tell me why? Frankly I'd consider it to be good manners but what do I know. Heck, don't bother spending more than 5 minutes with me if you cant stand me, get up and leave, seriously I can take it. But to sit over dinner for two hours and then ignore me, why waste my time.

 

Sheesh. More monumental entitlement.

 

Those women, who are attractive and desirable to a large population of men (because those are the only type of women you are interested in) chose to spend two hours of their time getting to know you.

 

Why should they have wasted their time?

 

They did not owe you the 2 hours, and they certainly don't owe you any explanations. You are nothing to them. You don't know them, they don't know you, you will never see each other again.

 

Everybody, man or woman, who participates in online dating knows that when things don't go in a positive direction, nobody is getting an explanation. I certainly never explained why there would be no second date to any of the many women I met one time only during my forays into online dating.

 

Explaining feelings is what people do with those who are important in our lives.

 

I'd be impressed the day a women actually makes some sort of effort with me but then again that wont happen because many women don't believe in making any effort at all unless there is some material or social gain to be had.

 

 

 

 

Wow. A woman is not going to make an effort with ANY man she's not interested in. Do you make efforts with women you are not interested in?

 

People make efforts when there is something to be gained. If "social gain" includes finding a good relationship, I think most people will make an effort in pursuit of that. What's the problem with that?

 

Another brilliant example of your monumental ego and sense of entitlement. It's truly impressive.

[Normm]

Why bother with this rubbish when paying gives the same ultimate result?

 

 

Wasn't that you posting about paying a prostitute for sex?

 

 

What happened with that, at least in the end you'd have a different result for once in your life.

[basil67]

1: like their own time

2: doesn't really go out much

3: doesn't have too many friends

4: career focused.

5: superbly well spoken

6: intelligent.

7: athletic and pretty

 

Ok, going back a few posts.....

 

Yes, I can see why you chose her. And she would have chosen you for the same reasons. The tangible reasons. But it's the intangible which drives the connection required to establish a relationship.

 

You say that you don't know why she's not interested in dating you again. I can tell you why: It's because she didn't feel an emotional connection with you. The conversation was probably a bit stilted and forced. Over two hours I'm guessing there wasn't much laughter between you. And this is actually quite normal. Most of us will meet many people over the years who they don't connect with.

 

As far as friendship goes, she won't want someone who's only connection was shared interests. She would want emotional connection too.

[Normm]

And this is actually quite normal. Most of us will meet many people over the years who they don't connect with.

 

 

It's not normal to be unable to connect with anyone.

[basil67]

It's not normal to be unable to connect with anyone.

 

It's normal among those who have social skill disorders.

 

Anway, not connecting with many people (which is what I said) is different to not connecting with anyone. I have many casual friends but only have very close connections with my bestest of friends.

[ZA Dater]

It's normal among those who have social skill disorders.

 

Anway, not connecting with many people (which is what I said) is different to not connecting with anyone. I have many casual friends but only have very close connections with my bestest of friends.

 

I connect perfectly well with people I have something in common with and people in the work context, I am well capable of having a conversation with them.

Edited August 27, 2019 by ZA Dater

[ZA Dater]

Right. Here's a fun fact for you: A large portion of the population, arguably the happiest and most fulfilled by their relationships with others, have the capacity to care about people without needing to get something in return.

 

Wow. A woman is not going to make an effort with ANY man she's not interested in. Do you make efforts with women you are not interested in?

 

People make efforts when there is something to be gained. If "social gain" includes finding a good relationship, I think most people will make an effort in pursuit of that. What's the problem with that?

It's truly impressive.

 

Why must I care about someone who I go on a date with and then ignore me, why would I care? Frankly I used to, now I couldn't care less. Its seemingly a one way street here, men must do everything and women do nothing. OK got it.

 

I am not entitled to anything but honesty but that's too much to ask seemingly. I refuse to back down on this because I know guys like me, there are some here, had they received honesty from women they might be able to tailor themselves appropriately after rejection, climb off the canvas and try again.

 

How long ago was your foray into online dating? How was your success rate?

 

Bottom line, don't agree to meet me if you aren't interested in me, its really simple but again its the freebie mentality of women, they expect men to sit there and sell their soul but for what, if within 5 min she decided she doesn't like you because of some stupid thing like you sit in a strange way. My point is men can NEVER EVER be critical of women but women can pick a man to pieces? Why?

 

I am glad you admit women purely date for gain, well done for conceding this point. Its why women reject and wont ever specify why, because if they did they would need to expose the truly pathetic reasons for doing so and they'd get judged on those reasons.

 

Over the years I chased various ladies, I was good enough to be the support system their bf's never are/were but not good enough to date, again re affirms what women realty want, they want the "good guy" for support but they want the "bad boy" for excitement.

 

Women are not interested in any guy that doesn't match their own social criteria, fine enough but how many WOMEN are forced to do the self improvement nonsense that continually gets prescribed to men here? Again almost none, ANY women vaguely in shape WILL find a bf if she wants one, MEN, well that's a different story, begging and grovelling the order of the day at the very least, selling nonsense stories at the most.

Edited August 27, 2019 by ZA Dater

[jspice]

You’ve figured it out. Well done.

 

No answer will satisfy you. You should just pay for a woman so you can justifiably judge her when she spends time with you solely because you gave her money.

[basil67]

I connect perfectly well with people I have something in common with and people in the work context, I am well capable of having a conversation with them.

 

People who have really solid social skills can connect with those who, at face value, don't have much in common.

[ZA Dater]

People who have really solid social skills can connect with those who, at face value, don't have much in common.

 

Again why must I put in any effort at all when I am just going to be thrown aside like a piece of trash? Make no mistake I think many women love this level of power.

 

NEVER has any women made any effort to connect with me so why should I bother so she can take great glee in rejecting me and then spinning some rubbish story "oh we can be friends", which is nothing more than patronising.

[ZA Dater]

You’ve figured it out. Well done.

 

No answer will satisfy you. You should just pay for a woman so you can justifiably judge her when she spends time with you solely because you gave her money.

 

You right because the answers given here bear absolutely NO correlation to what I ACTUALLY experience. I can go and be as charming as I am capable of being and still get a kick in the teeth, I can go and sell my whole life story and get belittled for it, I can go and take as much interest in her as possible and still get rejected. Why bother, why bother doing this if after 2 min she isn't keen anyway.

 

All I try and do is be me BUT its NEVER EVER good enough for any of these women, instead I am told here to completely reconstruct my life to tailor to these women, sit there like some sort of mouse/robot and be careful lest I say something that offends their fragile mind.

[Normm]

Bottom line, don't agree to meet me if you aren't interested in me

 

Again (I said it before), These women who agree to meet you are interested. Until they meet you. Think about it for a sec. Why would a woman waster her valuable time messaging with you and dedicating an evening or at least a few hours going on a date with you in the first place if she wasn't interested?

 

Again why must I put in any effort at all when I am just going to be thrown aside like a piece of trash?

 

Because you don't know when to give up?

 

Your prostitute idea has merit. In fact it's looking more and more like your only chance to ever lose your virginity.

[normal person]

My point is men can NEVER EVER be critical of women but women can pick a man to pieces? Why?

 

This is more of a gripe with society than a gripe with women. Men are complicit in this too.

 

Women are not interested in any guy that doesn't match their own social criteria,

 

People in general aren't. You, for example, won't date certain people who you don't find appealing or attractive. You're experiencing a similar fate just further down on the spectrum.

 

fine enough but how many WOMEN are forced to do the self improvement nonsense that continually gets prescribed to men here? Again almost none, ANY women vaguely in shape WILL find a bf if she wants one, MEN, well that's a different story, begging and grovelling the order of the day at the very least, selling nonsense stories at the most.

 

For the most part, I understand your frustration here. What I think you're missing is that this isn't necessarily an issue of gender, it's an issue of desirability. The women you're talking about aren't "forced" to do any self improvement because enough men desire them as they are currently to set their market value as it stands. If men are constantly on the prowl, chasing women and showering them with praise, women have no reason to beg and grovel. Why would they? Whoever is more desired has the leverage. Watch the tables turn when it comes to pro athletes, successful musicians, movie stars, doctors, lawyers, etc. Then you'll see the gender dynamic shift.

 

The larger machinations of why it seems so heavily skewed in women's favor these days are more of a societal discussion with some different theories (some of them a bit unsavory) people can read up on and make up their own minds about. Regardless of why, with regards to most people, women seemingly hold most of the cards these days. If men want to regain leverage, then they, as a whole, need to slow the pursuit and worship of women to a point where the dynamic shifts back a bit. Though that's probably something that could take years and years.

 

The other solution I see (and I'm not saying it's easy either), is to play the game by the current terms and become the desirable one that people grovel over. The power structure isn't going to change anytime soon, so be the powerful one. Women want a man with resources (money), prestige, confidence, respect, etc. From what I understand you're pretty successful and have a supercar or two. Could you use the assets you have to somehow boost your market value? Could you grow your business, which would grow your resources, which would grow your prestige, which would grow your confidence, etc? I believe there is a level you can reach that will notably shift the tide, but it's largely dependent on you focusing on your successes in the business world first and then having that to bring to the table with women. I know it's not a nice answer, but for men seemingly without any other solution, that could be a way to dramatically flip the script. One way or another, you need to do or be something women respect and desire more than you desire them.

 

Before people get all up in arms, I'm not saying that I personally like it, or that it's fair, or that it's nice for anyone to hear. But it is how I see things based on years of observation. For those with this problem, this is a possible solution.

[preraph]

"How many women are forced to do the self-improvement nonsense?" Are you kidding? What do you do every morning to get ready to go anywhere? Women do a LOT more to look good than men do and suffer for it by wearing torturous shoes and uncomfortable expensive clothing and spending time on hair and makeup.

[ZA Dater]

"How many women are forced to do the self-improvement nonsense?" Are you kidding? What do you do every morning to get ready to go anywhere? Women do a LOT more to look good than men do and suffer for it by wearing torturous shoes and uncomfortable expensive clothing and spending time on hair and makeup.

 

Nobody forces then to do any of those things.

[Normm]

Nobody forces then to do any of those things.

 

 

They do it because they've figured out that it's necessary to make changes, and accept that there are some necessary compromises in life in order to succeed in achieving their goals. Whatever they might be. They don't sit home complaining about how hard they have to work to get ready in the morning. And they enjoy the results, whether it's moving up the ranks in their career, or attracting suitable partners.

 

 

 

Take a lesson from it.

[ZA Dater]

Take a lesson from it.

 

You think I don't do the same? In my case it's just a complete waste of time in the context of dating.

[Normm]

You think I don't do the same? In my case it's just a complete waste of time in the context of dating.

 

 

I don't believe that you've made any significant changes in your attitude, approach, or strategy towards meeting women in the entire time you've been posting here. It's a harsh world, adapt or die.

[ZA Dater]

I don't believe that you've made any significant changes in your attitude, approach, or strategy towards meeting women in the entire time you've been posting here. It's a harsh world, adapt or die.

 

There is a good analogy about opinions. I am not prepared to adapt to something I feel is fundamentally wrong and at odds which so called gender equality.

 

Everyone has a choice, it might be ok for some to sell out beliefs in the hope some lady will arrive and they will live happily ever after, I chose to ignore that complete garbage because nobody can dispute the fact many ladies are not honest on dates. Its easy to sit there and then reject hours later.

 

Dates are essentially nothing more than glorified interviews, nothing more nothing less.

 

I tried to lighten dates up, I tried different type of dates, heck I even tried different sorts of people, I tried different platforms but ultimately the results were no better, ALL the ones I found attractive rejected me. Didn't matter what I did and I suspect I was rejected for the most trivial stupid reasons, men must give women a chance but the reverse is never true, why is this? Because women don't have to that's why there is a ready supply of men all lined up to choose from, to manipulate and to use. Men, well we must apparently lap up this behaviour in the hope we might get chosen by someone we find attractive.

 

If this system is so perfect why do pay dates exist, why is the oldest profession around, exactly, this system doesn't work for most but nobody questions it. Its easier to try fit in with something so flawed, something the especially today, punishes any form of individuality.

 

No when I sit and have lunch tomorrow at the same place sit at everyday, ordering the same meal I have most days I'll look at that tall athletic brunette, sure I'll look but I'll know she isn't interested in me because somewhere not far away are lines of men grovelling for her attention and they are an altogether better prospect because she can use her looks to exercise massive power over and ultimately she can choose.

 

Just like I can choose to not get into that line, she wont pay me any attention because I am not metaphorically bowing at her feet.

Edited August 27, 2019 by ZA Dater

[basil67]

Regarding women and the "self improvement nonsense".....at about the age of 25 I went on a quest for self improvement (the younger me was too arrogant to consider it). At the age of 52, I'm still on the journey.

 

Only the most arrogant of people refuse to look at their own behaviour and modify it in order to be a better person.

[jspice]

Right. I first lived abroad when I had just turned 25. If I look back at that girl I was, I can’t believe some of the stupid crap I thought and did. I think I only really started understanding life and who I was in my late 30s. I have no doubt that in another 5/10 years I’ll be a little bit more evolved and self-aware.

 

The years bring wisdom ( to most people).

[ZA Dater]

Only the most arrogant of people refuse to look at their own behaviour and modify it in order to be a better person.

 

 

 

Better person for what purpose, I am a better person today than I was 5 years ago but rejection remains. SO the question is this, be a better person for you or contrive to be someone you aren't really in he hope someone else will like that version?

 

 

Honest question.

[basil67]

I became a better person for both myself and for others. And to be clear, I didn't contrive to be someone I'm really not - I worked to become a better version of myself. So now, I like myself more and others like me more too. It's a win/win.

 

The things I worked on the most (and continue to work on) included:

 

1. dropping the cynicism.

2. working at listening more than speaking

3. keeping my thoughts to myself if they are unpleasant or hurtful

4. stopping swearing

5. a better appreciation of 'time and place' for things I said

6. give advice only when asked

7. generally working on being a more pleasant person to be around.

 

On top of keeping the above in check, there are things I could still work on - like remembering people's birthdays and checking in with friends more often.

 

Regarding rejection, I'm a firm believer that people's interest in us starts with our interest in them. And I don't mean working at getting someone to accept me in a 1:1 situation, but more of a general karma thing. We reap what we sow.

 

Edited to add: it was helpful having someone with me who would tell me when I did something which would reflect poorly. Even more important was listening to them without feeling the need to defend my actions. Also, I started to notice the traits of those around me who were good people and look at how they conducted themselves. For instance, one friend always strove to find positive traits in everyone she knew and I worked at doing the same. I wasn't always successful though

Edited August 28, 2019 by basil67

[elaine567]

Better person for what purpose, I am a better person today than I was 5 years ago but rejection remains.

 

You may be a better swimmer than you were 5 years ago but does that mean you will get picked for the Olympics?

I guess no.

So is that the fault of the Selection Committee?

 

Something is turning off every single woman you date, that is not solely down to them, that is down to you.

You may be "better" than previously, or you may be as charming as you have ever been, but you are not being compared against your past, you are being compared against other guys and other guys are winning, that is the bottom line.

Stop the pity party about the world being all wrong, it won't help you one iota.

 

These women are not seeing a "future" with you, even if that "future" only consists of a ONS; they are going home and shutting you off completely - why is that? That is what you need to suss out...

She communicates, she agrees to a date, she gets dressed up, she turns up and then... nothing. Something is not right and as you are the common denominator, then...

We were not there, we can surmise all sorts but this is down to you figuring out what you are doing wrong.

Because you are doing something wrong.

 

You seem to be increasingly bitter, which is not surprising, but your mindset is not conducive to attracting anyone.

Women are usually very quick to pick up on vibes and they can spot an angry, bitter guy at about 100 paces...

 

Go see a prostitute, psych yourself up to justify it, but it won't help you, not really, because she is only there for money.

She is not there for you, therefore she cannot give you the validation you seek.

In 2 minutes, she will be on to the next punter...

[ZA Dater]

Something is turning off every single woman you date, that is not solely down to them, that is down to you.

You may be "better" than previously, or you may be as charming as you have ever been, but you are not being compared against your past, you are being compared against other guys and other guys are winning, that is the bottom line.

Stop the pity party about the world being all wrong, it won't help you one iota.

 

You seem to be increasingly bitter, which is not surprising, but your mindset is not conducive to attracting anyone.

Women are usually very quick to pick up on vibes and they can spot an angry, bitter guy at about 100 paces...

 

The bottom line is subjectively I cant ever win. I am not stupid, I look around at guys do get dates, guys who can sort of pick who they want to date and I look at the traits they have and then I look at myself, I have none of their traits, not one. So the fact everything is a loss isn't that surprising. I will never be those guys, I don't act like them, I don't think like them and my interests aren't the same as theirs. I can go all the way back to my first days at school I was never like anyone else, the only redeeming factor I had at school is my knowledge was respected.

 

In my mind a win is possible if people actually looked around for a minute and didn't try conform, really I try and seek those people out but even then it doesn't work. Rejection is one thing, having no interest is another thing entirely.

 

I cant do the witty banter, I cant do the nonsense talk, that's not to say I don't at least try. All I have done it try work with that I have which is never ever enough and it wont be if I being judged against the a typical drinking, party dude with his dozens of friends who sits in the gym 5 mornings a week in the hope he will look like Hulk.

 

But you are right clearly they all don't like something but NONE are honest enough to tell me so I guess I will never know what that something is. I find it very difficult to project much enthusiasm on dates because I know what's going to happen, sure I did try at this last one but what did I get for that effort, nothing, the majority of dates I go on don't interest me at all, its like a chore for me, doing it because well maybe it will be better than I expect, just to find its exactly what I expect.

 

So yes I guess women do have all that power and men, we either bow down or walk away.

Edited August 28, 2019 by ZA Dater