Is there anyway of reversing rejection?

[ZA Dater]

Conquer this fear and things will improve. The cold approach. Your not alone... lots of guys now a days seem to have this fear.

 

Only because when I have done it I have been rejected every time. I even got laughed at one time.

 

So no, its not something I am likely to bother with again.

[MetallicHue]

Well it’s up to you but it’s not like you’re having much luck other ways.

[Rayce]

I am only suggesting a simple greeting... If someone in passing gives you a greeting... do you reply?

[ZA Dater]

I am only suggesting a simple greeting... If someone in passing gives you a greeting... do you reply?

 

I do indeed but I can count on two hands how often that has happened.

[normal person]

Normal Person's suggestion radiates best with me to be honest, bin the entire idea and do something that can actually count for something. Ultimately of course I have to live with the realisation I am going to miss out on almost all the dating things, that's a hard reality to live with.

 

That was only part of my suggestion. I'm saying if I were you, I'd do something big that fulfilled me but also earned a lot of respect and money. Then leverage the respect and money in the dating world a few years later which would make things exponentially easier, and I'd still be happy. If you're having trouble as it is, you need some "bait," unfortunately -- and it likely has to appeal to a woman's lizard brain and not her appreciation of history and politics. That's basically the way things are, no matter how much it "should" be the other way.

 

Being inexperienced at 35 isn't really acceptable I don't think it'd be much better at 40.

 

Sell your company for a few million dollars and you might be surprised how little your inexperience matters. I think it's beneficial for men (especially young ones) to have a focus and drive in life that isn't women. If you prioritize your relationships over your greater purpose in life, you'll ultimately be unhappy, even if temporarily. My friend did that throughout his teens and twenties and recently had a pretty awful mid life crisis. If your purpose in life is just to "be in a relationship," eventually you'll get complacent and realize you could've done a lot more, and coincidentally you won't be where you want to be in life, and that will make you dislike yourself and situation, your partner might not respect you as much as she once did, etc. Chase your goal in life and not women, and then the women will be more likely to chase you. It's a tough slog, it's usually not glamorous, and yes, it might feel quite transactional, but that's the way the world is.

 

The other problem is at 35 all I am attracting are single moms, I never really lived my 20s because I was studying for most of it, never really did the exploring others did because was focussed on my career so the idea of being "trapped" with a single mom isn't an attractive one at all.

 

Everyone had to study in their 20s. If you studied exponentially more in your 20s, is your career exponentially better? I mean, was it worth it?

 

I'll admit this because it seems fair, yesterday I was walking next to a stunning brunette, I thought about saying hello but didn't because it would just seem odd to be greeted by some stranger. My other problem is if people get to know me over time they do end up liking me to some extent but that's IMPOSSIBLE to do with OLD, you never get that chance.

 

Yeah, it would be odd to for a stranger on the street. But totally acceptable at some place like a bar or other establishment where that sort of thing is normal.

[normal person]

Yes. This whole "Incel" movement, which the OP illustrates nicely, is not only demeaning but threatening to women (and "Chads" ) I don't blame them for saying whatever they feel they need to to effect a smooth exit when they're face to face with a man who views them this way.

 

Yeah, some men can be awful. While saying something like that is just a precautionary measure I'm sure it doesn't sit well with the OP when it was just a lie in his eyes.

 

In fairness to him, I've seen his struggles over the last few years and I can totally understand why he thinks things are "unfair." Because, well, they are. Life is inherently unfair.

 

I've also seen some of this incel stuff and the rhetoric has some similarities: birth control lead to female hypergamy and now women hold all the cards, women can't grant undesirable men common courtesy, 80% of women only want the top 20% of men, etc. And to be fair to those of them that are respectful, I'm not sure entirely what the answers to their problems are, because they, much like OP, seem to be unable to escape their situation no matter what they try. And it seems to be a growing trend so I try not to be so dismissive of the issues. Really, what can you say to someone who's a decent human being but still gets constantly passed up or even laughed at for things beyond their control? I think it's something society needs to address as I only see it getting worse.

[some_username1]

One thing that resonates through this thread, through all your threads in fact, is your unwavering belief that the way to appeal to a woman on a date is to focus on yourself. “I try to talk about business, I try to talk about cars, me me me me me me me me me etc”.

 

I don’t think I have EVER seen you care about what your date wants to talk about. In fact earlier you said you practically don’t care about them because they don’t care about you etc.

 

Did you know that the word “charisma” derived from Greek? It’s definition is “to give”. If that holds true then no wonder you don’t succeed on dates because you wouldn’t give your dates the scrapings from your shoe. They have to conform to your agenda and if they don’t then they are the problem.

 

I had a date with a woman a month or so back, I let her talk and I used it as an opportunity to learn all about her. She was telling me about handbags. I know nothing about handbags, ordinarily couldn’t care, but I dropped some jokes in about them to amuse myself and listened to what she said. Afterwards I asked her some probing questions about how the date went and she was very impressed that I listened (I made an in-joke about handbags to reinforce the point) and thought I was different from other guys and wanted to see me again. We weren’t compatible for other reasons but I certainly don’t regret discussing handbags because I treat dates as an opportunity to get to know someone else, I try and make it a mission to learn something positive and unique about them as a way of referring to them later, as in “That reminds me of that date with x, she was hoping to change career and become a y” etc.

 

The art of connecting and being a great date is all about listening and taking a genuine interest.

 

The problem is we can give you this knowledge from experience and what worked for us but we might as well be telling a fish how to climb a tree. You just don’t have it in you to change because from where you are at currently it would take a monumental effort of will to change your entrenched mindset and become a people person who has no other expectation on a date than learning how someone else thinks and what they like by talking about them. It starts with putting your own wants and needs aside and genuinely just wanting to get to know new people and what *they* want to talk about. I can’t see you being that person as long as I have a hole in my ass. Sorry.

[jspice]

You’re so right! I’ve said this in the posters other threads too but he won’t show an interest because “why should I?”

 

Your handbag story made me think of my own! My brother is 15 years younger than I am, and 13 years younger than my sister. His father was abusive so my mother left him and my brother wanted no relationship with him, so this poor kid was surrounded by women his entire life.

 

I was 27 and he was in his teens and I’d just gotten back from shopping where I’d found the most gorgeous suede bag. I called home just to chat and we talked about what we had been doing all weekend. I mentioned my awesome bag and then asked him something else. I can still hear his next words clear as day, “ No! Tell me about your bag? What does it look like?”

 

Im not a super fashionable girl so I don’t discuss clothes or stuff that much but that made such an impression on me. That a young teenage boy showed an interest in his older sister’s bag.

He has grown into such an amazing adult and can talk to people of all ages. He’s very low key, but really popular without even trying because he’s genuinely interested in what people have to say. And of course girls love him haha.

He has female friends, but also has his guy friends that he can share guy things with.

 

This is something you can learn any time in your life. Even if it doesn’t come naturally, it’s an easy exercise you start with your next conversation with whoever it is.

 

But we’re talking to a brick wall here.

[some_username1]

You’re so right! I’ve said this in the posters other threads too but he won’t show an interest because “why should I?”

 

Your handbag story made me think of my own! My brother is 15 years younger than I am, and 13 years younger than my sister. His father was abusive so my mother left him and my brother wanted no relationship with him, so this poor kid was surrounded by women his entire life.

 

I was 27 and he was in his teens and I’d just gotten back from shopping where I’d found the most gorgeous suede bag. I called home just to chat and we talked about what we had been doing all weekend. I mentioned my awesome bag and then asked him something else. I can still hear his next words clear as day, “ No! Tell me about your bag? What does it look like?”

 

Im not a super fashionable girl so I don’t discuss clothes or stuff that much but that made such an impression on me. That a young teenage boy showed an interest in his older sister’s bag.

He has grown into such an amazing adult and can talk to people of all ages. He’s very low key, but really popular without even trying because he’s genuinely interested in what people have to say. And of course girls love him haha.

He has female friends, but also has his guy friends that he can share guy things with.

 

This is something you can learn any time in your life. Even if it doesn’t come naturally, it’s an easy exercise you start with your next conversation with whoever it is.

 

But we’re talking to a brick wall here.

 

See I’m having to stop myself from asking what brand your handbag was now, it feels like I’ve reluctantly become an authority on them

The bag in question in my post was brown suede, I’ve got a real memory for details on a date so I even remember the label name, it was something like a Merler or something like that, it ended up having an untimely demise when her relative threw up over it! And that was that, goodnight sweet Prince

 

But anyway, for those reading this who aren’t OP and DO actually want to change in order to improve their outcomes with women as a sort of epilogue to this date about the handbags I was chatting to a different girl on Tinder and she brought up something about handbags and I made a joke about this poor handbag that is no longer with us and it kicked the conversation off in a new direction and she was suitably impressed that I was generally knowledgeable about some surprising stuff and not just a knucklehead whose hobbies are beer, casual swearing and sending dick pics. It goes to show that there is no such thing as useless knowledge and what is learned on one date that OP would no doubt write off as boring s***e may help you relate better to the next girl you date.

 

But yes, I’ve said all this before on various threads and nothing changes, it’s a waste of time me commenting really but I do hope that maybe somebody might stumble on this thread and find it of some use. What is frustrating is that I feel I could really help because I used to be EXACTLY like OP, negative, bitter, cynical, honestly when I think back to how I couldn’t get a second date (especially when I read OP’s posts) I think “no wonder nobody would date me, I was awful”. I didn’t know how to relate to women at all.

 

At the age OP currently is I went totally back to the drawing board and started reading stuff to change my mindset and I am so much happier now in general, I’ve made peace that I might not (probably won’t) meet the woman of my dreams but I’m okay with that because I know I’m picky to the point of Darwinism but I’m empowered to be like that because it’s my own choice. I *choose* to be picky so therefore I have no right to complain. I think OP would do well to take that in and embrace his choices re: single mothers and respect his right to choice by not complaining about the choices he makes. When you live life for yourself and do not make relationships your master then life is so much better and your upbeat outlook and demeanour gives you so much more chance of attracting what it is that you would like...and if it doesn’t? You have to be strong enough to say who cares- living well is reward enough because life is too short to be miserable and by being miserable you are only hurting yourself and tainting all your experiences in what might be the only life you live, for the worse.

[basil67]

My other mistake is to believe that everyone deserves a chance

 

If you truly believed this, you'd give a chance to single mothers and women who may not be your ideal size.

 

"I'd like all women to give me a chance" "I won't give all women a chance"

[ZA Dater]

Cool, if I sit on a date and say nothing there would be silence, very rarely am I asked anything about myself.

[NuevoYorko]

Cool, if I sit on a date and say nothing there would be silence, very rarely am I asked anything about myself.

 

I think you need to draw a boundary between what you could / should be doing to improve your dating life, and what you think women could /should be doing to improve YOUR dating life.

[some_username1]

Cool, if I sit on a date and say nothing there would be silence, very rarely am I asked anything about myself.

 

Me me me me me me me me me me me me

[preraph]

If you truly believed this, you'd give a chance to single mothers and women who may not be your ideal size.

 

"I'd like all women to give me a chance" "I won't give all women a chance"

 

That's certainly the recurring mantra, isn't it?

[ZA Dater]

One thing that resonates through this thread, through all your threads in fact, is your unwavering belief that the way to appeal to a woman on a date is to focus on yourself. “I try to talk about business, I try to talk about cars, me me me me me me me me me etc”.

 

It starts with putting your own wants and needs aside and genuinely just wanting to get to know new people and what *they* want to talk about. I can’t see you being that person as long as I have a hole in my ass. Sorry.

 

The above is mostly incorrect. I have no issue sitting and listening to someone talk the problem is when I do this on dates what follows is silence. My usual tactic is to take an interest and ask the person about themselves and then talk about topics that interest them so I am not sure where you get the impression above.

 

Seeing as you seem to pass judgement I might as well tell you if the person doesn't interest me then why would I bother spending time with them? The same is true of me.

 

I cant say too many of these dates have resulted in stimulating conversation or even anything fundamentally interesting about the person sitting in front of me. They probably thought the same of me.

 

There is so much interest I can take in au pairing, volunteering at a pet shelter, what I really want to know is the persons approach to life, where they see they seem themselves in 5 years, what ambitions do they have, what excites them, their favourite experiences. Unfortunately that line of conversation doesn't go very well.

 

But hey I get the point I must invest heavily in them and they ask me nothing. Sorted.

[ZA Dater]

If you truly believed this, you'd give a chance to single mothers and women who may not be your ideal size.

 

"I'd like all women to give me a chance" "I won't give all women a chance"

 

I have time and time and time again given chances to these people and you know what NOT ONE of them appealed to me AT ALL.

 

I DONT want someone else's kids in my life.

[ZA Dater]

That was only part of my suggestion. I'm saying if I were you, I'd do something big that fulfilled me but also earned a lot of respect and money. Then leverage the respect and money in the dating world a few years later which would make things exponentially easier, and I'd still be happy. If you're having trouble as it is, you need some "bait," unfortunately -- and it likely has to appeal to a woman's lizard brain and not her appreciation of history and politics. That's basically the way things are, no matter how much it "should" be the other way.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it would be odd to for a stranger on the street. But totally acceptable at some place like a bar or other establishment where that sort of thing is normal.

 

A lot of truth here and much of it mirrors my current thinking. Ultimately I think I would be better off chasing this than chasing dating but its like the kid who wants to catch that one big wave, I just want maybe 4 dates with the same person, experience some of the relationship things and I think if I could do that I'd be better balances at other aspects of life. Make no mistake I am considering all sorts of contrived ways to make this work but the issue I know it would be fake so I wouldn't want it.

 

Unfortunately I socially just don't work at bars, not drinking doesn't help and I just feel very self conscious at those places.

 

But yes I think you are mostly right women of course would never admit they chased material things, no never.

[basil67]

I have time and time and time again given chances to these people and you know what NOT ONE of them appealed to me AT ALL.

 

I DONT want someone else's kids in my life.

 

Exactly. You don’t actually believe that everyone deserves a chance.

Edited August 31, 2019 by basil67

[Foxhall]

I think you said yourself previously, your dates are all too serious, how could you change to lightening the mood,

 

perhaps if you share a story which has an amusing side, also smile more during the date and compliment the lady on her smile,

suggest going for a walk outside after an hour or two rather than a continuous interview style date,

 

Also, I know this is not a dating site, but there is an ideal match for you, a regular poster on this forum (not necessarily a poster on this thread!)

 

have you noticed her??

[elaine567]

There is so much interest I can take in au pairing, volunteering at a pet shelter, what I really want to know is the persons approach to life, where they see they seem themselves in 5 years, what ambitions do they have, what excites them, their favourite experiences.

Unfortunately that line of conversation doesn't go very well.

Why would it?

If you put most people on the spot, they don't tend to like it.

Why would she tell you her hopes and dreams, her aspirations, her ambitions, her 5 year plan for life?

You are a stranger off the internet. It is actually none of your business.

She is not there to have her life picked apart and judged by you over the dinner table.

 

You are probing into private and personal stuff and that is highly inappropriate for a first date.

No wonder they clam up.

She wants a light hearted conversation to see if you gel together and you are demanding essentially a CV... to see if she comes up to your standards... to see if you can find some "wow" factor in there...

 

If she brings up such stuff then all well and good, but probing for that kind of info is a complete turn off.

That is why small talk and banter exists, it provides a safe and relaxing environment for people to talk to strangers, so no-one feels under pressure, threatened, judged, or stressed.

The time for deeper conversations about more private stuff comes later... sometimes much later...weeks, months, even years...

 

Business like, interviewing style dates may work for some cultures, but for most in the Western world they are looking for connection, attraction and love... first and foremost.

[basil67]

My usual tactic is to take an interest and ask the person about themselves and then talk about topics that interest them so I am not sure where you get the impression above.

 

Fail. While it's great to engage in their interests, a connection needs to be created. Listening and asking questions doesn't create connection. Shared experience does this.

 

I cant say too many of these dates have resulted in stimulating conversation or even anything fundamentally interesting about the person sitting in front of me. They probably thought the same of me.

 

Because apparently neither of you has the ability to segue into creating a connection.

 

 

There is so much interest I can take in au pairing, volunteering at a pet shelter, what I really want to know is the persons approach to life, where they see they seem themselves in 5 years, what ambitions do they have, what excites them, their favourite experiences. Unfortunately that line of conversation doesn't go very well.

 

This stuff is so easy to create connection over. She voluteered at a pet shelter....you had a much loved dog/always wanted a pet. She worked as an au pair, you also had a nutty boss/have visited where she au paired at.

 

I can understand why your line of questioning doesn't go well. You find out what excites a women and her favourite experiences as you get to know her. But don't expect her to be able to recall them on demand in an interview style type of questioning. If you ask me where I want to be in five years time, I will probably respond that this would depend on what happens in three years time. Not to mention that if she hoped to be married and pregnant by then, she knows better than to say it because guys would think her desperate.

 

But hey I get the point I must invest heavily in them and they ask me nothing. Sorted.

 

Investing heavily involves a relationsship and commitment. One date which goes nowhere is little investment at all. If you've dropped a heap of money on a first date, then more fool you. I hope you don't expect her to ask questions in the way that you do.....it's just not gonna happen. It's about the segues.

Edited September 1, 2019 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

 

Also, I know this is not a dating site, but there is an ideal match for you, a regular poster on this forum (not necessarily a poster on this thread!)

 

have you noticed her??

 

No idea who that is.

[ZA Dater]

Why would it?

If you put most people on the spot, they don't tend to like it.

Why would she tell you her hopes and dreams, her aspirations, her ambitions, her 5 year plan for life?

You are a stranger off the internet. It is actually none of your business.

She is not there to have her life picked apart and judged by you over the dinner table.

 

You are probing into private and personal stuff and that is highly inappropriate for a first date.

No wonder they clam up.

She wants a light hearted conversation to see if you gel together and you are demanding essentially a CV... to see if she comes up to your standards... to see if you can find some "wow" factor in there...

 

If she brings up such stuff then all well and good, but probing for that kind of info is a complete turn off.

 

Business like, interviewing style dates may work for some cultures, but for most in the Western world they are looking for connection, attraction and love... first and foremost.

 

I don't do small talk in any environment really, I'll do it in business to an extent but no idea how to do it on date's. I try keep the conversation light but clearly do a poor job of it.

 

Oh well least I know what's wrong.

[Foxhall]

No idea who that is.

 

Basil and Elaine give very good advice here,

 

hmmn on the above, would I be very much out of order in mentioning the posters name??

 

I did matchmake successfully once before, in real life!

 

perhaps ill send you a private message.

[basil67]

I don't do small talk in any environment really,

 

And again, redirecting you to aspie dating sites. It is there where you will find people who don't relish small talk.