Is there anyway of reversing rejection?

[ZA Dater]

And again, redirecting you to aspie dating sites. It is there where you will find people who don't relish small talk.

 

Thanks but no thanks. I'll just do what I want to do, if it never works than so be it. At least I now know why I don't get date two, oh well again so be it. I suppose I could sit and talk nonsense if I really wanted to but honestly why would I want to.

 

I actually want to know about the person so I'd expect some self promotion.

[basil67]

Thanks but no thanks. I'll just do what I want to do, if it never works than so be it.

 

Why are you rejecting the very women who you are far more likely to connect with? The kind of women who won't talk nonsense. I'm wondering if you're scared of success.

 

I've got a couple of aspie girlfriends. No small talk, just straight into it. Refreshingly different conversation to NTs. Both women are really switched on and one is an academic who's recognised worldwide in her field. Isn't this what you want?

[jspice]

No, he doesn’t want someone he can relate to because she’d be socially awkward too, and a socially awkward woman isn’t going to get him the acceptance by the crowd of people he purports to despise so.

 

He wants a woman he can’t have because he deserves it and he’s so much better than the rest of us who settled for “less”.

[ZA Dater]

Why are you rejecting the very women who you are far more likely to connect with? The kind of women who won't talk nonsense. I'm wondering if you're scared of success.

 

I've got a couple of aspie girlfriends. No small talk, just straight into it. Refreshingly different conversation to NTs. Both women are really switched on and one is an academic who's recognised worldwide in her field. Isn't this what you want?

 

I have on probably 4 occasions met people I liked and none saw fit to identify themselves based on a "disorder". For the same reason I wont go and look for dates in church groups, my experience with people who see the need to identify themselves as such has been poor. I once met a really nice lady, she wouldn't date me because I didn't go to church, irrespective she thought I was a great guy.

 

Honestly I am passed the point of "most likely" because the most likely "connection" I will get is the women I pay to go out with me. No I don't want an academic actually, I have a intense dislike of people who rely on academic knowledge at the expense of street smart.

 

As I say this last rejection just proved to me I cannot get this right, conventionally at least. There was lots in common, lots of common ground in terms of lifestyle, great conversation and honestly it was about as good as I am likely to find. To me that date was a success from that point of view.

 

 

At least thanks to yourself and Elaine I know why my dates don't work but then again is the reward for all of this really worth it? I am not so sure anymore.

Edited September 2, 2019 by ZA Dater

[some_username1]

Fail. While it's great to engage in their interests, a connection needs to be created. Listening and asking questions doesn't create connection. Shared experience does this.

 

 

 

Because apparently neither of you has the ability to segue into creating a connection.

 

 

 

 

This stuff is so easy to create connection over. She voluteered at a pet shelter....you had a much loved dog/always wanted a pet. She worked as an au pair, you also had a nutty boss/have visited where she au paired at.

 

I can understand why your line of questioning doesn't go well. You find out what excites a women and her favourite experiences as you get to know her. But don't expect her to be able to recall them on demand in an interview style type of questioning. If you ask me where I want to be in five years time, I will probably respond that this would depend on what happens in three years time. Not to mention that if she hoped to be married and pregnant by then, she knows better than to say it because guys would think her desperate.

 

 

 

Investing heavily involves a relationsship and commitment. One date which goes nowhere is little investment at all. If you've dropped a heap of money on a first date, then more fool you. I hope you don't expect her to ask questions in the way that you do.....it's just not gonna happen. It's about the segues.

 

I'm not sure I agree that you create a connection purely through shared experiences, initial connection is primarily driven by empathy (imo) and that can come in the form of simply understanding what the other person is saying (without judgement) and taking an interest in it, as per my example about handbags- I didn't need to own a handbag (or know anything about them!) to be able to connect with someone over them.

 

"I've got a dog" followed by "Oh I've got a dog too!" rather than asking what breed of dog they have, why they chose breed, has it got a daft name etc. can come across like you are making it all about you and trying to trump the other person's experience, especially if you rely on "me too!" too heavily as part of your general conversational strategy on dates.

[Rayce]

"I've got a dog" followed by "Oh I've got a dog too!" rather than asking what breed of dog they have, why they chose breed, has it got a daft name etc. can come across like you are making it all about you and trying to trump the other person's experience, especially if you rely on "me too!" too heavily as part of your general conversational strategy on dates.

 

This is very good insight here... I myself get really hung up on the "me too!" stuff. It's a really bad habit and takes hard work to break it. See I just did it again. lol...

[some_username1]

The above is mostly incorrect. I have no issue sitting and listening to someone talk the problem is when I do this on dates what follows is silence. My usual tactic is to take an interest and ask the person about themselves and then talk about topics that interest them so I am not sure where you get the impression above.

 

Seeing as you seem to pass judgement I might as well tell you if the person doesn't interest me then why would I bother spending time with them? The same is true of me.

 

I cant say too many of these dates have resulted in stimulating conversation or even anything fundamentally interesting about the person sitting in front of me. They probably thought the same of me.

 

There is so much interest I can take in au pairing, volunteering at a pet shelter, what I really want to know is the persons approach to life, where they see they seem themselves in 5 years, what ambitions do they have, what excites them, their favourite experiences. Unfortunately that line of conversation doesn't go very well.

 

But hey I get the point I must invest heavily in them and they ask me nothing. Sorted.

 

Sorry, I must have got you mixed up with the other ZA Dater who in all his threads I've read has never mentioned that he makes his dates the focus of his attention, I've only seen endless railing about her not wanting to discuss business or politics or some other boring ass subject.

 

The bolded evidence is more proof that, time and time again, you take in very little that other posters say and it flies in the face of the advice I was trying to give. Do you not see how transactional that is? I will take an interest in them only if they take an interest in me.

 

Genuine question: why do you struggle so much with the concept of selflessness in dating?

 

Do you think it would be physically and mentally possible for you to go on dates and expect nothing from it? I know what you're about to say: "I do go on dates with no expectation because they usually don't have the wow factor etc" and I'm not talking about that. I mean no expectation as to the conversation you are going to have. Going on a date with the mindset of "I am going to make this girl have a bloody enjoyable date and will do what I have to to make that happen AND I don't care whether there is a second date, I just want her to have a good time". See? Selfless. Can you say hand on heart that you do that? Have you even considered trying that? Because it doesn't come across in your posts, quite the opposite in fact.

 

And also, as Elaine pointed out, those questions are massively intrusive for a first date. The successful first dates I have had have been light and fun, not a psycho-analytical session to find out in half an hour what makes them tick.

 

It lacks social skills, nuance and subtlety. Asking someone what excites them is analogous to asking them "How can I impress you?" or by completing Super Mario Brothers 3 by using the warp whistle straight to the final castle thus skipping about 10 hours of game play. It's very direct and a massive turn off because YOU are supposed to figure out what excites them over the course of getting to know them better. A man who tries to take short cuts like that either is not interested in them as a person and can't be bothered to find out or doesn't have the social skills to ask the general questions about life experiences to elicit the answer. Sadly I think you are guilty of both.

[some_username1]

This is very good insight here... I myself get really hung up on the "me too!" stuff. It's a really bad habit and takes hard work to break it. See I just did it again. lol...

 

I used to do it a lot and still do, it wasn't until I read some stuff about being a great conversationalist that expressly forbade doing it that it clicked about how lame it is to reply to a statement with a statement about yourself.

 

It becomes a (bad) habit because it's easy, lazy and requires no thought/effort. Once it's ingrained in your speech patterns it's really hard to stop

Edited September 2, 2019 by some_username1

[NuevoYorko]

I have on probably 4 occasions met people I liked

I've asked you this more than a dozen times. Can you please directly answer this.

 

You have met 4 women you like out of quite a few forays.

 

You clearly have a very narrow parameter of who (or, as you like to refer to woman, "what") is appealing.

 

Fine.

 

My question:

 

Why is this "normal" for you, but some kind of outrage if women have their own parameters?

 

It's the bitterness and entitlement that prevent be from being in your corner with your dating problems.

[ZA Dater]

 

My question:

 

Why is this "normal" for you, but some kind of outrage if women have their own parameters?

 

It's the bitterness and entitlement that prevent be from being in your corner with your dating problems.

 

Easy they can like whoever they like but rather then don't moan about those men they do like or moan they get cheated on or moan their man doesn't pay them attention of moan about their choice in general.

 

Unfortunately I am subjected to this from time to time, ultimately these women chose these player type men so they shouldn't be surprised about the outcome.

 

Nobody is entitled to anything but I'd like to think we are all entitled to being judged on who were are individually rather than who we are when compared to society itself. See if you agree with me on that one.

[ZA Dater]

 

Genuine question: why do you struggle so much with the concept of selflessness in dating?

 

Do you think it would be physically and mentally possible for you to go on dates and expect nothing from it? I know what you're about to say: "I do go on dates with no expectation because they usually don't have the wow factor etc" and I'm not talking about that. I mean no expectation as to the conversation you are going to have. Going on a date with the mindset of "I am going to make this girl have a bloody enjoyable date and will do what I have to to make that happen AND I don't care whether there is a second date, I just want her to have a good time". See? Selfless. Can you say hand on heart that you do that? Have you even considered trying that? Because it doesn't come across in your posts, quite the opposite in fact.

 

And also, as Elaine pointed out, those questions are massively intrusive for a first date. The successful first dates I have had have been light and fun, not a psycho-analytical session to find out in half an hour what makes them tick.

 

It lacks social skills, nuance and subtlety. Asking someone what excites them is analogous to asking them "How can I impress you?" or by completing Super Mario Brothers 3 by using the warp whistle straight to the final castle thus skipping about 10 hours of game play. It's very direct and a massive turn off because YOU are supposed to figure out what excites them over the course of getting to know them better. A man who tries to take short cuts like that either is not interested in them as a person and can't be bothered to find out or doesn't have the social skills to ask the general questions about life experiences to elicit the answer. Sadly I think you are guilty of both.

 

Why would I go out to please someone else and make the date enjoyable of them if I get nothing out of it? I might as well sit and home and work instead. I have been on plenty of those sorts of dates and honestly 2 hours of that is just beyond tiring, especially when I am not getting any real decent conversation out it either or person is showing themselves as being very one dimensional. As I say there is only so much one can say about pets, kids, drinks, parks, running and after that what is there really to discuss. Sure, bring up past funny experiences, most people I have had dates with simply didn't have any, amazingly I actually do have some. Why is it women don't have to go on dates with the same mind set and actually make an effort?

 

I can count many dates where it get asked NOTHING about myself not even the most basic of things, its all about THEM which is fine but then at least be interesting and put in some effort towards the conversation.

 

You seem to think I don't try to be funny, I do, often laugh at myself. Its not like I sit there and pretend its a senate session.

 

Frankly I am passed the point of going on dates in the hope whoever I date will have a good time, even if I don't. What is the point of that, its a complete and total waste of time.

 

I am direct, simply put its just how I have adapted to be, day to day I don't have for frivolous small talk, everything I do is objective based and when I go on a date my objective is to get a second one IF I like the person enough, I don't achieve that objective ever seemingly but frankly what I discover about most dates, I am happy that I never get a second date. You could confuse this with arrogance but it isn't, simply put I am tired of being some sort of subservient person to women on dates, tired of putting all the effort in and they put in none.

 

I once had one arrive with a filthy top, how is that ok? I had another arrive pretty drunk, how is that ok. I had two other arrive with their friends, quite why I don't know, oh I do, they wanted free drinks. So yes when you accuse me of whatever, perhaps stop and think about the experiences I have had that have resulted in my thinking, I didn't magically wake up one day and decide to do these things, they are a function of my now profound indifference towards the entire concept of dating but more than that the near complete and total lack of effort put in by the women I have met.

 

You seem to advocate more of the same, well I must do everything and they do nothing.

 

I ask questions about life experiences and you know the sort of answers I get, "yes, "no" "well I don't know" , there is no challenge nothing that actually endears me to most of these people at all.

 

I'll turn this around, I once had a date with a doctor from Denver, really nice date. Why because she could actually speak about things, she had actually lived some experiences and you know what she actually asked me questions. So you cannot say my method is completely bad because guess what there ISNT a UNIVERSALLY successful dating method I with there was.

 

Could I do better, yes, of course who couldn't, do people who can do banter fair better than me, absolutely but then I look at the type of people banter tends to work on and once again those people don't hold much interest to me. I am intense which I guess radiates well here and I guess most people don't like it, why am I like this well because when women put me down and reject me its better to use that experience to gain focus than to simply get lost in rejection. Am I hard nosed, yes I am now, I wasn't always as such, its a function of being used, women are happy to come to me when they need something done, a kind gesture which I don't mind doing but ultimately I learnt I am being used for what their boyfriends cant be bothered to do.

 

Here is the thing, I am very giving, this forum might find that hard to believe, I am also very kind and caring, again this forum might find that hard to believe, does that make me better than anyone else, no it doesn't BUT it does make me a bit different to people I ordinarily come across. Am I domineering, definitely not, women seem to love a domineering guy, no idea why when most go on about gender equality.

 

I have pretty much reached the end of the road with OLD for 15 years I have been using various platforms with no real success so I am forced to consider other methods, what they are I have no idea because its already been points out to me talking to some random person is apparently creepy and I would agree, I don't drink so bars are out, I don't go to church so that's out, I don't dance so that's out. I don't really do much people centric activities at all barring work and the car club. I am just jaded which I think is very evident in person and you can laugh all you want but one of the nicest things is when a lady does actually bother to talk to me and ask even "how are you today" why, simply because that is more than I ever get on an actual date.

 

Maybe I just radiate "project" because over the years I have been a project for various people and all pretty much lost interest, telling in its own way. Very rarely in fact has a women complimented me.

 

My point is simple, walk a mile in my shoes and you might understand why I believe the things I do, why the experiences have lead to this outlook I have. I do know one thing, I have only ever met ONE person who judges people based on who they are, she is astonishingly beautiful, incredibly smart and the all round amazing person, she actually made me feel like I was a good guy and actually gave me some social attention nobody else has bothered to do. She is also the least judgemental person I probably will ever meet.

Edited September 2, 2019 by ZA Dater

[Blanco]

OP, I'm not sure why you're so fixated on these dates not explaining why they are rejecting you. You haven't exactly shown a willingness to seriously consider valid constructive criticism on the same matter in your various threads. I'm not sure why you think you'd be so receptive to what these women have to say about why they're passing on you.

[preraph]

I reckon he's going to try to argue one of them into liking him.

[ZA Dater]

OP, I'm not sure why you're so fixated on these dates not explaining why they are rejecting you. You haven't exactly shown a willingness to seriously consider valid constructive criticism on the same matter in your various threads. I'm not sure why you think you'd be so receptive to what these women have to say about why they're passing on you.

 

Because constructive criticism can be very useful. Seemingly some here have built up an image of me fairly far removed from the actual.

 

Frankly it will take someone remarkable to reverse my thoughts on dating and I am not holding my breath that, that person will ever arrive but based on the thoughts here I should be dating people I don't find attractive and grovelling at their feet to make them like me and oh I must pretend to enjoy the date, make it highly enjoyable for them even if they don't do anything to make it enjoyable for me.

 

Honestly that has ZERO appeal at all so maybe I am just wholly unsuited to this. People still cannot tell me where besides clubs, bars, meet ups one is supposed to meet people, am I supposed to meet people randomly and if so how?

 

I just REFUSE to put in all the effort, its as simple as that. I think I am going to take Normal Person's advice and just work and try leverage any success I might find there as a selling point. Its apparently the only way I can find any sort of organic success at this because what is being dispensed here ignores the scenarios I have clearly and repeatedly described, not to mention the experiences I have had.

[basil67]

I have a intense dislike of people who rely on academic knowledge at the expense of street smart.

 

Do you realise that you come across as having strong knowledge base but lack of street smarts?

 

At any rate, you've again just disproved the theory that everyone deserves a chance.

[basil67]

People still cannot tell me where besides clubs, bars, meet ups one is supposed to meet people, am I supposed to meet people randomly and if so how?

 

Through friends and events. Not 'meet up' events, but birthday parties, exhibitions, work events, networking, mutual interest events.

[MetallicHue]

Because constructive criticism can be very useful. Seemingly some here have built up an image of me fairly far removed from the actual.

 

Frankly it will take someone remarkable to reverse my thoughts on dating and I am not holding my breath that, that person will ever arrive but based on the thoughts here I should be dating people I don't find attractive and grovelling at their feet to make them like me and oh I must pretend to enjoy the date, make it highly enjoyable for them even if they don't do anything to make it enjoyable for me.

 

Honestly that has ZERO appeal at all so maybe I am just wholly unsuited to this. People still cannot tell me where besides clubs, bars, meet ups one is supposed to meet people, am I supposed to meet people randomly and if so how?

 

I just REFUSE to put in all the effort, its as simple as that. I think I am going to take Normal Person's advice and just work and try leverage any success I might find there as a selling point. Its apparently the only way I can find any sort of organic success at this because what is being dispensed here ignores the scenarios I have clearly and repeatedly described, not to mention the experiences I have had.

 

I can see you’re very jaded by your experiences. Obviously you should go with someone you like and not be desperate. But being bitter is going to make things way worse. I think you’ve gotten reasonable feedback from some people about what may work better or venues to meet people. You can keep doing what you’re doing but it may take longer if you’re not open to changing anything. I hope you do eventually find the right person for you. Things can take longer for different people - not sure why it works that way but for some people it’s harder to find that right fit. Best of luck.

[NuevoYorko]

Easy they can like whoever they like but rather then don't moan about those men they do like or moan they get cheated on or moan their man doesn't pay them attention of moan about their choice in general.

So, these few women that you find attractive spent your dates "moaning"?

 

Why do you like them?

 

Unfortunately I am subjected to this from time to time, ultimately these women chose these player type men so they shouldn't be surprised about the outcome.

 

Interesting. So these 4 women that you've found to have met your standards but who rejected you have stayed in touch with you to moan about their player boyfriends after your first dates?

 

Somehow you've given the impression that you've not been in contact with them after the initial meeting.

 

 

Nobody is entitled to anything but I'd like to think we are all entitled to being judged on who were are individually rather than who we are when compared to society itself. See if you agree with me on that one.

 

Except - fat women, single mothers, women who don't have ambition.

 

Those people are not entitled to be judged on their own merits, by you, in any case. You feel free to judge them without getting to know them.

 

EXACTLY the same way any woman, or man, for that matter, is free to decide they have no interest in knowing anything more about you (or me) upon their first assessment.

 

This is my big gripe with you. You are quite pompously dishing out the harsh judgments and dismissals on all the "party girls," fatties, single mothers, society at large, frivolity, whatever - but you can't take being on the receiving end.

 

Dude, that's weak.

 

You seem to have no self-awareness whatsoever.

[basil67]

"I've got a dog" followed by "Oh I've got a dog too!" rather than asking what breed of dog they have, why they chose breed, has it got a daft name etc. can come across like you are making it all about you and trying to trump the other person's experience, especially if you rely on "me too!" too heavily as part of your general conversational strategy on dates.

 

I generally agree with you username, I guess I was shortening down the conversation for brevity's sake. I would most certainly ask about their dog before bringing in my experience. Not an entirely good explantion on my part. I have to admit that I'd have trouble connecting over a handbag though. Or football. don't think we need to connect through everything, but having some things in common to lead the type of conversation where you can't stop chatting is good.

[chillii]

Unfortunately za hasn't managed to meet anyone he just naturally connects with accept maybe there was k , so maybe he just can't get it until he does.

But l've never even thought about one word with someone in my life and l really can't understand why you'd even have too if you only bother with the right people.

And hopefully that'll all just happen for za to one day and none of this will matter eh.

[ZA Dater]

This is my big gripe with you. You are quite pompously dishing out the harsh judgments and dismissals on all the "party girls," fatties, single mothers, society at large, frivolity, whatever - but you can't take being on the receiving end.

 

Dude, that's weak.

 

You seem to have no self-awareness whatsoever.

 

There are women I have around who could be terms "friends" to the extent I am the first point of call when they need something. I tend to hear many of them complain about guys.

 

I only judge to the extent I am continually judged. Based on the comment here I should be simply going out with people, talking nonsense in the hope the conversation is light and "fun" whatever that's supposed to mean. Don't think I can recall ever having a 'fun" conversation ever but nevertheless.

 

Often people on this forum mention "work with what you have" so I do, with pretty dire results. Do I blame women for my outlook, yes I do, much the same way that actions of people in the world negatively effects others. An action leads to a result, the difference is I choose now to be indifferent, I can sit and mope and be miserable but to do that would be pointless. Instead I can go out and do what I want to do.

 

So when people tell me "oh you must do this, you must be light hearted, you must make her enjoy the date" for me its an affront because why would I do that if all I get is more of the same from women? Why would I? Why would I do that when they offer up nothing, the least I would expect is them to be honest, yet none are capable of that, its easier to just disappear. One women told me I was ugly, guess what I didn't like the comment but I respected the honesty.

 

At the moment I am actually at the point of not caring. Walking on the beach yesterday at sunset, lots of stunning ladies ran past me, sure I looked like any guy does but I knew I had zero chance with any of them, why because I don't fit in and I wont ever fit in.

[some_username1]

There are women I have around who could be terms "friends" to the extent I am the first point of call when they need something. I tend to hear many of them complain about guys.

 

I only judge to the extent I am continually judged. Based on the comment here I should be simply going out with people, talking nonsense in the hope the conversation is light and "fun" whatever that's supposed to mean. Don't think I can recall ever having a 'fun" conversation ever but nevertheless.

 

Often people on this forum mention "work with what you have" so I do, with pretty dire results. Do I blame women for my outlook, yes I do, much the same way that actions of people in the world negatively effects others. An action leads to a result, the difference is I choose now to be indifferent, I can sit and mope and be miserable but to do that would be pointless. Instead I can go out and do what I want to do.

 

So when people tell me "oh you must do this, you must be light hearted, you must make her enjoy the date" for me its an affront because why would I do that if all I get is more of the same from women? Why would I? Why would I do that when they offer up nothing, the least I would expect is them to be honest, yet none are capable of that, its easier to just disappear. One women told me I was ugly, guess what I didn't like the comment but I respected the honesty.

 

At the moment I am actually at the point of not caring. Walking on the beach yesterday at sunset, lots of stunning ladies ran past me, sure I looked like any guy does but I knew I had zero chance with any of them, why because I don't fit in and I wont ever fit in.

 

Because life isn’t a game of who can care least. What women do should be immaterial- that’s the whole point. Everything about you is calibrated to react to how you perceive the women you date when it should be *totally* the opposite. If you’ve gone on a date and they haven’t spoken (I seriously doubt that by the way, unless you have a habit of choosing introverted types every single time and we all know that isn’t like the case because you have spoken at length about how you want Little Miss Popularity) despite you asking pertinent questions then you chalk it up to experience and move on. You *don’t* think “all women are the same so therefore I will treat them all like I couldn’t care less”. Because you are letting *them* dictate *your* mindset and happiness. Seriously, by wallowing in your current mindset and performing actions that are based on previous dates it’s like every woman you have been on a date with has currently got you by the balls and is dictating to you how you are going to live your life and self-sabotage yourself.

 

Why do you give them that power over you?! Genuine question.

 

Honestly, I can’t imagine how emasculating it must feel to have my mindset and happiness so badly affected by women, not only that but women that I didn’t even like! I can’t even...

Edited September 3, 2019 by some_username1

[basil67]

I don't fit in and I wont ever fit in.

 

You'd fit right in with the aspie crowd. But you reject them because apparently you dislike those who identify with others like them And you reject NTs because they identify with others like them. It seems like you reject pretty much everyone.

 

Now, I totally get why you find NT's boring. But rejecting those who have the very traits you want simply because they identify with their own is so self defeating.

[NuevoYorko]

I only judge to the extent I am continually judged.

 

If you didn't feel that you were being judged, then, fat single mothers would be options for you suddenly?

 

 

Don't think I can recall ever having a 'fun" conversation ever

 

I don't doubt that.

 

Look. Nothing wrong with being serious, but there MUST be some element of pleasure happening for someone to feel compelled to seek further contact with another person.

[clia]

There are women I have around who could be terms "friends" to the extent I am the first point of call when they need something. I tend to hear many of them complain about guys.

 

Have you asked any of these female friends for their honest opinion of why you are having such trouble dating?

 

I only judge to the extent I am continually judged. Based on the comment here I should be simply going out with people, talking nonsense in the hope the conversation is light and "fun" whatever that's supposed to mean. Don't think I can recall ever having a 'fun" conversation ever but nevertheless.

 

There is no reason why you should be forced to have fun or engage in lighthearted conversations if you don't want to. However, you need to find women who are exactly like you -- serious, don't want to have fun, etc. I honestly don't know where you find women like that. Even the most serious people I know like to have fun sometimes. But going after extroverted party girls is not going to be a path to success for you.