Husband's coworkers - should i worry?

[redhead22]

Husband started new job late 2017. Everything was going well until I found out he had lunch with a female coworker (just the 2 of them in an intimate Italian restaurant in walking distance to their office). He failed to mention it to me, and I found out when he told another family member and they told me. I was not happy about it. I sarcastically told him the next morning to "have fun at lunch with your coworker". He got extremely angry at me. He told me she was a lesbian, and that it was just an innocent lunch because the both of them got up at the same time and he asked her if she wanted to join him. They also walked around the downtown area where they work for about 30 min.

 

I had my doubts all along that he really ate lunch with this person "lesbian" and wondering if it was a different female coworker. For the next several months, I collected hints and paid attention to details he would mention from work about various women. His team leader was a female whom he seemed to talk to a lot (but at the time thought it was innocent). This team leader was supposedly married and building a new home with her hubby. She would give my husband suggestions on where to go to the dentist, doctor, etc. My hubby would book an appointment at the new doctor and I would ask "why are you going to that doctor when you've always gone to our doctor". He told me that she told him about them and they were great.

 

He began traveling once per month for 3-4 days at a time. At first, the people travelling would be either my husband and 2 guys OR my husband and 1 girl, 1 guy. Everyone would ride in the same rental car, dine at the same restaurant, and stay in same hotel. Months later, the trips began to be my husband and just 1 female. He took a total of 3 trips with women. Trip #1 and #2, it was he and his female team leader, and trip #3, it was he and another female coworker.

 

On the trips with his female team leader, she would fly on a different plane and arrive a couple hours earlier and check into the hotel. She would rent a car, and then come back to the airport later that night when his flight arrived, and pick him up and they would drive to their hotel. They would dine together each night. One particular night, they drove into the downtown of a city and dined at a very expensive restaurant, where she drank wine (he said he did NOT drink - he usually doesn't with me either). He texted me photos of their entrees which were very elaborate. Their dinner lasted for a couple of hours as they dined on several courses. They actually had plans to go visit a famous tourist spot during the next evening, but I put a stop to this trip and asked him to fly home early (I felt weird about him doing all of this). He obliged and came home early.

 

For the next trip which involved just my husband and a different female coworker, I asked him to Uber and dine alone. He obliged, and sent me photos, facetimed me, sent me his Uber tracking, etc. That trip made me feel better than the other trips he took with the female team leader.

 

In the winter, the female team leader went to Scotland, and brought a gift back for my husband (I was told she brought everyone a gift) which was a scarf and some Scottish cookies. For Christmas, she bought him a bottle of liquor, and when she went on a training seminar, she brought him back some promo items that were handed out in the booths at the seminar.

 

I always thought she was older and more of a motherly figure, however after looking her up, she is the same age as we are. I don't find her attractive- but who knows what he might have thought. Hubby and I were going thru a rough patch when he started his job and after that first initial argument about the hidden lunch date he had at the Italian restaurant. (I've always wondered if the lunch date might not be the lesbian after all).

 

I got his phone one night and looked thru their texts. When he went on one of those trips, his plane got delayed. He was supposed to arrive by 7pm...however his plane was diverted to another city and landed at 9pm. He then had to get on a different plane for a 2 hour flight to the correct city which landed at midnight. During these texts, he was texting her to let her know NOT to pick him up at the airport (he said he'd just Uber to the hotel). She was texting sad face emojis, telling him "are you sure?" and then said "text me when you land or I will worry". I never knew about these texts until months later when I started looking thru his phone. I asked him "why would she worry about you?????" He said they had a joint presentation the next day, and she wanted to know if he was going to make it there or she'd have to go it alone. When he finally landed, he texted her and she said "thank goodness".

 

Last week, this female team leader suddenly announced she'd be leaving the company. She gave a 2 week notice. The day she left, my husband stayed out of work to "go to the allergy doctor". They were supposed to have a party at work for her. Since they were so close, I was surprised he missed it. I asked him what she'd be doing now that she left. He said she was going back to school to get a certification. The certification just happens to be a program that I signed up for myself about a year ago!

 

I asked him to see the app that his company uses to communicate/email. I knew that he used this to send her messages regarding when he'd be late, etc. When looking thru them, I didn't see any messages in the last 6 months at all. I also found a peculiar message in which she heaped praise on my husband for taking on a difficult task and she said, "You're my inspiration".

 

Tell me this is not weird.

[lana-banana]

There are only three weird parts of this to me: 1) that he went to such an expensive restaurant on a work trip, 2) that the female team lead got him a bottle of liquor even though he doesn't usually drink, and 3) that they hadn't exchanged any messages in the last six months even though she was his team lead. I think it's possible that the female team lead *might* have had some kind of crush on him, but it could really go either way. The important part is that your husband seems to have maintained his boundaries, at least as far as you can prove.

 

Husband started new job late 2017. Everything was going well until I found out he had lunch with a female coworker (just the 2 of them in an intimate Italian restaurant in walking distance to their office). He failed to mention it to me, and I found out when he told another family member and they told me. I was not happy about it. I sarcastically told him the next morning to "have fun at lunch with your coworker". He got extremely angry at me. He told me she was a lesbian, and that it was just an innocent lunch because the both of them got up at the same time and he asked her if she wanted to join him. They also walked around the downtown area where they work for about 30 min.

 

If he were trying to sneak around on you I doubt he'd be telling other family members about it. Asking people if they want to grab lunch together is not weird. Honestly, you sound extremely paranoid and insecure here.

 

As for the stuff with the female team lead, it is kind of odd that they dined together every night, but per your commentary that is what everyone did on those trips. And again, I really don't think he'd be texting photos of his dinners if he was sincerely intending to cheat on you. The fact that he flew home at your request is enormous---this guy had to take a hit to his work performance and possibly dropped major work obligations because you asked---and it seems like he's behaved appropriately this entire time.

 

I got his phone one night and looked thru their texts. When he went on one of those trips, his plane got delayed. He was supposed to arrive by 7pm...however his plane was diverted to another city and landed at 9pm. He then had to get on a different plane for a 2 hour flight to the correct city which landed at midnight. During these texts, he was texting her to let her know NOT to pick him up at the airport (he said he'd just Uber to the hotel). She was texting sad face emojis, telling him "are you sure?" and then said "text me when you land or I will worry". I never knew about these texts until months later when I started looking thru his phone. I asked him "why would she worry about you?????" He said they had a joint presentation the next day, and she wanted to know if he was going to make it there or she'd have to go it alone. When he finally landed, he texted her and she said "thank goodness".

 

This is absolutely how I would text a coworker, male or female, with whom I was about to do a very important project. Nobody likes being left alone for an important assignment. Frankly, the fact that he was texting her about not picking him up indicates that he was trying to enforce boundaries of some kind, or at least take an Uber so he could prove where he was to you.

 

I asked him what she'd be doing now that she left. He said she was going back to school to get a certification. The certification just happens to be a program that I signed up for myself about a year ago!

 

This is pure paranoia talking.

 

When looking thru them, I didn't see any messages in the last 6 months at all.

 

Was she still his team lead at this point? If she was still responsible for him and they didn't have any work messages, then I wonder if she did something that caused him to say "hey, that's inappropriate" and she stopped talking to him out of embarrassment. But it's also completely possible that either one of them was reassigned and they stopped working on major projects together, so they had no need to chat. Is it also possible that they've switched to talking on a different app? Sure, but you'd think they'd have SOME communication on their work app if they're still working together and on good terms. Most businesses are pretty strict about not conducting work on private platforms. Maybe your husband didn't attend her going away party because they had a falling out, or they weren't terribly close at that point, or he really did need to go to the doctor. And the thing about "You're my inspiration"? That could be anything. I have had coworkers say "marry me" after I came through for them in a pinch.

 

The thing is I don't see anywhere here where your husband has disrespected your wishes. Your trust issues seem like a much bigger deal than his interactions with his coworkers, which all seem pretty innocent to me. I would worry if your husband was disinterested in talking to you or dismissive of your requests, but he seems to have been the exact opposite. If anything it sounds like you're so insecure that your husband probably feels he can't talk to you about certain things without you being jealous or making unfounded accusations. Have you thought about counseling to address your fears?

Edited August 19, 2019 by lana-banana

[ajequals]

It sounds like you have nothing to worry about to me

[Big Aus]

As vague as this may sound, you have to try to judge whether his behaviour with these women is "out of character or excessive"

As a Senior Manager, visiting regional Offices, I have certainly taken the Regional Manager to lunch and dinner at "nice" restaurants. One female, one male, nothing untoward and no difference between the two. Now if I'd taken the lady to lunch, and bought the guy a burger, that would be significant.

 

I don't know what the tax regime is where you are, but I know that in some jurisdictions, generous travel perks are permitted and are part of benefits on some jobs. If the company pays for a swanky restaurant, why not enjoy it. Again the question is, if he travels with another guy, do they also live it up?

 

You also have to understand that in tight-knit workplaces, its possible to great relationships with coworkers that are entirely innocent. I had one such workplace, where 3 of us manager (2M, 1F) got on tremendously, and being FIFO were always hanging out. Including one night driving a hour into town, and drinking so much we had to share a room rather than driving back. Someone on the outside looking in might have perceived something romantic, particularly if they saw the times when it was only 2 of the 3. But the big joke on site was what a lovely couple HE and I made. (at the time we were all happily married) and just three good friends.

 

(of course a decade later my marriage has gone down the crapper.)

[schlumpy]

Did she ever make an effort to get to know you?

 

The team leader should understand that traveling and working together so closely with your husband might stress his marriage. It would have been in her interest as well as the company's to defuse that situation right from the start.

 

In your situation, my radar would have been activated.

[Crazelnut]

Hard to tell, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the sudden departure from work may not have been by choice. I suspect the higher ups got wind of their shenanigans and, being the boss, she got asked to leave. And it would certainly explain him not going to her farewell at work.

 

But again, it's hard to tell whether there is really something going on, or if you're just paranoid and slightly controlling. Not enough info.

[FMW]

What you describe would probably make my radar go off as well, but there may not be anything to it at all.

 

You said you were going through a rough patch - depending on what that rough patch involved, it could just be making you more sensitive than normal to things. And again, depending on the circumstances, that could go either way. Maybe it's part of a larger pattern that deserves more scrutiny or maybe it's really nothing.

 

Look at everything in context with your relationship and experiences together in general.

 

Never ignore your intuition or gut feelings, but wait for the full picture and don't make hasty judgments.

[redhead22]

He went thru a phase right after he began working there. When I discovered he had went to 2 hour lunch with a woman in a quaint restaurant - I was not happy, but I was NOT overly mad- just asked him to please respect that boundary and not do again. He was outrageous. He said You need to get used to it because it could happen again. Totally not caring about my wishes. He got so angry he left for the evening and threatened divorce if I restricted him (yet he admitted he would not be ok with me doing this with a male colleague). He continued with that stance for 3-4 days before saying if I ever lunch again with a woman I will let you know first.

 

He just did not act right during all of 2018. He blew off our anniversary because he was TIRED. In the meantime, he was volunteering to travel once per month- which is when he was going on trips with groups or just he and one woman. He and the team leader had a close friendship. He was having tons of back problems, and she recommended a new chiropractor for him. She told him yoga was good- so she told him where she takes yoga and he should try it. I am pretty sure he told her about our marital issues as well.

 

He had gotten to the point of totally disrespecting me. He was calling me names and taunting my so called jealousy. This was hypocritical as my hubby was so jealous he showed up at my office about 10 yr ago because a guy would not stop hanging out around my desk (in hindsight I think this coworker of mine was autistic). Hubby told the guy to leave me alone. He would repeat that mantra of calling me JEALOUS B all of 2018. Almost like someone was telling him this and he repeated it like a mantra.

 

One day I woke up to find him at my computer showing me videos on how to do an in-home separation. How we could do it the easiest for the kids. He asked me to find a lawyer for us to use. I did not want my marriage to end. I would send him videos to watch to help our marriage but he had his mind made up. I randomly picked out an attorney and we had a phone appt to discuss costs, etc. Weeks later, hubby started saying he loved me and we should go to counseling. We started counseling and it was going well.

 

A few weeks later, he came home from work announcing another trip he would need to go on. When he came home from the trip, he was more distant and not caring about what I thought. If I asked him any questions, he would call me jealous B again. He announced he was not putting up with this $hit and he actually went to see the lawyer I had picked out. I begged him not to. He called me after the appt and said he thought we should separate but he thought there was a 10% chance the marriage might work. I was extremely HURT for a long time after. I began hating his workplace and the people there. I should be able to ask questions and ask for boundaries involving other women. He was certainly not flexible when it involved another man talking to me.

Edited August 19, 2019 by redhead22

[Mr. Lucky]

He just did not act right during all of 2018. He blew off our anniversary because he was TIRED. In the meantime, he was volunteering to travel once per month- which is when he was going on trips with groups or just he and one woman. He and the team leader had a close friendship. He was having tons of back problems, and she recommended a new chiropractor for him. She told him yoga was good- so she told him where she takes yoga and he should try it. I am pretty sure he told her about our marital issues as well.

 

My speculative guess is there was some kind of relationship there with his team leader than simply ran its course. EA? PA? Hard to say though there were certainly sufficient opportunities and the right setting for sex. This explains both his willingness to pull the plug on your marriage then and his avoidance of her now (messages and going-away party), perhaps including her departure from the company. In short, it sounds like an affair and the resulting break-up.

 

The truth is, you may never know the answers. So the real question becomes, in light of that uncertainty, how do you want to proceed ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[FMW]

In context, I would be suspicious. I don't think you're being overly sensitive.

[preraph]

I guess only you know his limitations . But I can't tell you how many times I've dined out with coworkers, mainly on quasi-business lunches. And certainly anytime when out of town on business together, it's considered good form for the boss to feed and pick up the tab and entertain some. None of that is out of the ordinary. Realize they can write at least half of it off on taxes, so that's what they do. We tried to dine at nice places, not always posh just because posh isn't everywhere in town, but nice.

[redhead22]

That is a good question- how do you proceed with something like this? Never can really prove anything- except the texts that I have from one of their trips where she is texting him things like this:

 

Female team leader already landed on a separate flight to Austin TX in the morning on a Sunday. Hubby was supposed to fly into Austin on Sunday and land there at 3pm (He liked to get there early to unwind before their onsite work on Monday morning. She was going to pick him up at the airport and they were in same hotel. So this happens- His flight was diverted to Dallas (due to plane problem) and delayed for hours. He ends up scheduled to land in Austin at 11:40pm! Since she was supposed to pick him up, he texts her:

 

Hubby: My flight will not arrive until 11:40pm

Female Coworker: Are u ok with getting an Uber? Still let me know when u arrive.

Hubby: I might as well get Uber so u don’t have to come back that late

Female: Let me know or I will worry.

Hubby: I will text u to let u know.

 

Hubby texts her when he lands in Dallas at 8:40.

 

Hubby: Well...I’m in Texas.

Female: Thank goodness!!!!

Hubby: Just landed in Dallas...I’ll text u when I land in Austin.

Female: That should be a quick flight, right?

Hubby: 1hr 20 min I believe

Female: Let me know

Hubby: It doesn’t leave until 9:40pm

Hubby: Ok

Female: Oh

[preraph]

There's just nothing threatening in those texts. Coemployees on business trips share rides and try to coordinate because it saves the company money.

 

Why don't YOU go to his office and make yourself very visible? Men who never show their woman around work (and vice versa) are often believed to be as good as single. So you bring him lunch and trot yourself around the halls so you're visible. And you do it semi-regularly. Pick him up for lunch.

 

You know, this is where personal cellphones are a bad thing. It used to everyone had to go through the switchboard to call their spouses and that alone let them have a presence. The receptionist was as likely to tell someone, "He's very married" as not.

 

At my office, the boss's girlfriend regularly brings him his lunch. Because she met him when he was married and he hired her, so she knows....to be fair, he already had big marriage problems.

[redhead22]

I cannot get into his building because you need a badge. Our counselor suggested he bring me up to meet his coworkers- which he finally did after he had been there for 1.5 years. I met this team leader and she was sort of stiff/not friendly. It would be weird for me to ask to go up in his office now since I have already been there. When I do go up to meet him for lunch (usually I have to ask him), we meet at one of the restaurants.

[spiritedaway2003]

That is a good question- how do you proceed with something like this? Never can really prove anything- except the texts that I have from one of their trips where she is texting him things like this:

 

I didn't have to travel often for work. When I did, meeting up for lunch or dinner on per diem is quite normal (eat well on company's dime! )

 

Also, nothing threatening about the text, either. Just sorting out traveling logistics and checking-in. I do that with my colleagues all the time, male or female. We don't usually plan our flights together. We'd check in and and if the flights land around the same time, we'd grab one cab (or uber or whatever it is) instead.

Normal stuff. If we land at different times, I wouldn't go back to pick them up unless there are some logistical issues.

[preraph]

He can certainly get past the badge business. We needed one where I worked, too, but ours was a double entry, so you could come in the front door but next was a badge entry door and to the right was a window with a receptionist who had only to call and tell the person you were there. You need to be sure you get in and go to all company parties. There always is at least something around Christmas. You need to be sure you know about and insist on going to that. You can even google probably and find out about happenings there and you could even volunteer to help with the organizing/decorating and just go around him to do it.

 

It is VERY hard to cheat at work if your employers/coemployees have met and really like and approve of your wife. It's some peer pressure. They will get judgy, take all the fun out of it.

 

The other thing you can do is host your own backyard bbq and invite people from his work, including that woman and her supervisor and his supervisor.

 

The other thing is you can get in the door by calling up there unbeknownst to him near his birthday and ask them if you can bring a cake up there and give him a surprise. Chances are, they themselves will buy him a cake, so they might just say, We're doing that so you're invited. Or if not, they will surely say it's fine. Then you surprise him.

[schlumpy]

It is VERY hard to cheat at work if your employers/coemployees have met and really like and approve of your wife. It's some peer pressure. They will get judgy, take all the fun out of it.

 

The other thing you can do is host your own backyard bbq and invite people from his work, including that woman and her supervisor and his supervisor.

 

The other thing is you can get in the door by calling up there unbeknownst to him near his birthday and ask them if you can bring a cake up there and give him a surprise. Chances are, they themselves will buy him a cake, so they might just say, We're doing that so you're invited. Or if not, they will surely say it's fine. Then you surprise him.

 

Very good ideas Preraph. I hope she listens to you.

[preraph]

Be sure you're on the company's Facebook and from there, maybe you can follow some employees. Stay in the loop.

[Beendaredonedat]

All I'm going to say that if I ever have to or had to do that much snooping and questioning of my husband and his whereabouts, then just shoot me now.

 

You don't trust your husband. Why? Has he cheated on you before? Given you good reason not to trust him?

[Big Aus]

Ok, seriously WTF???

 

I just read your second post, you probably should have led with that.

 

What you're basically outlining is that for an extended period (a whole year?) your husband was systematically verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abusive. That he was not only being disloyal, but used that as part of his abuse.

 

The ONLY question here, is why you are still with this arsehole?

 

To answer your question, yes you should be worried.

At a bare minimum, he is an inconsiderate prick. He is again being unfaithful (in the literal if not sexual sense) and boosting his ego at your expense.

Realistically though, it is likely he is perpetuating the abuse deliberately.

 

He is an ABUSER, and certainly has narcissistic tendencies, if not an actual personality disorder. He's not going to change. Not now, and not ever.

All he's going to do is keep chipping away at your self-esteem.

 

I don't know how the law works where you are. So first thing you need to do is consult a divorce lawyer. Then work on getting him our of your life.

[lana-banana]

Your second post paints a completely different story than your first---so much so that I'm wondering if the truth is actually somewhere in between. If your husband is the abusive, manic, jealous and name-calling monster you describe in Post #2, then I would ask why your priority isn't divorce versus infidelity. But nothing you've described, nothing at all, is proof that he's having an affair.

[redhead22]

The reason I never left before are that we have children and have been married over 20 years. We had a great love story of how we met and married. He is my soul mate. He’s just different. I know everybody changes, but since being around his new work family he is not the same. Lately- he’s closer to the same but it took a LONG time for us to get back to a better place. I would say he’s become more independent. He changed his style of clothing. He now manscapes. He wants to go on a different schedule where he wakes very early in order to go to gym. He wants to do a hobby one night a week. I wanted to work on our marriage by spending MORE time together- maybe like a couples hobby. I wanted to go eat lunch with him more often. In the past, it was me that was more independent and he was always trying to be with me all the time. Now, he would tell me that we shouldn’t have to spend that much time together and maybe I should get a hobby like him. This behavior was totally out of character and not him (which is why I’ve always suspected another woman). I just kept working and doing my thing and tried to surround myself with friends & family who supported me. He convinced his family that my jealousy was the problem. He made out like the lunch was innocent and the trips were necessary. What’s weird is he is the only male who ever took trips alone with another female- everyone else travelled in groups and rented their own car and dined separately with no issues. My hubby

found it necessary to ride in the car alone with his female manager dining at $$$$$ steakhouses, where SHE drank wine and they had a 3 hr dinner. The trip was Monday- Wednesday - working all day until 5pm. I was hoping when he scheduled that trip that he would fly home on Wednesday night....but he told me it would be too late and he would stay until Thursday because she had a sightseeing excursion lined up for the 2 of them on Wednesday night and then they were to go to dinner again. Yes- I am an idiot for being agreeable to start with when he planned the trip (is hats how jealous I was - lol). But I tell u what- once he was there and I saw this in action, I demanded he come home on Wednesday night and ditch the sightseeing plans.

[Beendaredonedat]

I demanded he come home on Wednesday night and ditch the sightseeing plans.

You are an enabler and he is a husband without romantic relationship boundaries.

 

You snoop to the nth degree and he gives you some reason to. When you have to go to the lengths you've gone to discover his itinerary, then you have zero trust and when there is no trust, there will never be a calm and happy partnership.

 

You two need marriage counselling or you might as well resign yourself to this life you've made with him. You can "demand" all you want but the bottom line is, he shouldn't need demanding... He should know that his dating his supervisor is a romantic relationship boundary cross for a married man.

[redhead22]

Well I didn’t really snoop - he was texting me that his plane had issues and whatnot. He was also texting pics of each item of food they were eating- including her food. He was upfront about wanting to stay an extra night and go on the sightseeing tour with her. I really think he didn’t have enough sense to know better- I would know better but he thinks these kind of things are ok. Now-he sees my point and respects boundaries. It just took too long and a lot of blame towards me.

[Beendaredonedat]

Well I didn’t really snoop - he was texting me that his plane had issues and whatnot. He was also texting pics of each item of food they were eating- including her food. He was upfront about wanting to stay an extra night and go on the sightseeing tour with her. I really think he didn’t have enough sense to know better- I would know better but he thinks these kind of things are ok. Now-he sees my point and respects boundaries. It just took too long and a lot of blame towards me.

 

So are you fine with his behaviour now then? You seem to be making excuses for what you originally thought was nefarious goings on.