Is she "Still Married"?

[Big Aus]

I tossed up whether this was the right forum. If I got it wrong please move.

 

This is bizarre, and seems improbable, but its real, and happening.

 

I have met a lady, and we are keen, and have been chatting a lot, and are planning a couple of low-pressure fun "dates." I am serious about looking to re-marry and she says that she is also.

 

Now here's the bizarre part.

She is still married but views herself as "separated". That in itself is not uncommon in Aus, and since our divorces are basically rubber-stamps, its not an issue in itself.

BUT, she still shares a house and custody of kids with her ex.

They have "separate bedrooms" and according to her, live "completely separate lives," including their time with the kids which they split 50/50.

 

I hesitate to mention the next bit, But I think it is relevant. She claims the reason they split is her ex nolonger wanting to be intimate, and that after a couple of years of trying to make the marriage work, she had to withdraw.

 

They live in a somewhat idyllic beach house, an hour outside the city, and she really enjoys the lifestyle.

She claims the reason she can't leave is that she can't afford to, and that she fears she won't get custody of her kids.

 

Obviously, given time, we can talk though a lot of stuff, but I get the impression it will be slow going. And whilst I think she is worth it, I worry that I am just setting myself up for a lot of disappointment

 

Now keep in mind, that in Aus:

Custody invariably goes to the mother (usually with every 2nd weekend at Dad's) unless there is a very compelling reason.

Property split usually starts at 50% for the woman, and goes higher if there are kids to be provided for.

Unless it has to be sold, the family home usually goes to the mother, at least until the kids are grown.

There is government enforced Child Support.

 

So either she has not bothered to look into this properly, or there is some reason she wouldn't get custody and support, or she is dissembling.

 

I should also mention, that she is gorgeous and would have guys lining up around the block for an FWB relationship. But neither of us is looking for that.

 

Assuming the story is basically honest, my fear is twofold:

Either she's still hanging on to her "ex", maybe trying to find something better before actually jumping ship.

Or, she's just really comfortable with her life, in which case I don't see how I would fit in.

 

The bizarre issue with her husband could also go either way.

If the lack of affection & intimacy is what drove her out, then that bodes well for a normal relationship.

But what if shes actually happy with the current arrangement?

[Blind-Sided]

...........

Assuming the story is basically honest, my fear is twofold:

Either she's still hanging on to her "ex", maybe trying to find something better before actually jumping ship.

......................

 

I agree... assuming everything is true... you have hit the nail on the head. She has stated that she can't afford to move out... so if you two move forward, she will have you to help.

 

 

Now... you said that in Aus the mother will get the kids and the house... why would she be worried that she wouldn't get them? Is there more to the story? Also, just because they are living separate lives... is there any legal way to separate in Aus?

Edited August 19, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[mark clemson]

You could request the option to verify all of this with the husband. I suspect she won't agree as, even IF she's telling the truth about all this, it may be rocking the boat a bit too much for her.

 

That said, if she's genuinely in an open marriage, it should be genuinely open - you should be able to verify what she is saying with the H by some mechanism and in a calm and adult manner.

 

If she is very attractive and wants you, you must be at least pretty decent yourself. So, presumably you would have the option to date other, single, women should this not work out.

[Big Aus]

I agree... assuming everything is true... you have hit the nail on the head. She has stated that she can't afford to move out... so if you two move forward, she will have you to help.

 

 

Now... you said that in Aus the mother will get the kids and the house... why would she be worried that she wouldn't get them? Is there more to the story? Also, just because they are living separate lives... is there any legal way to separate in Aus?

 

I don't want to interrogate her, and I guess we can see how things go, but there's something not quite ringing true.

Maybe she's trying to downplay things, I just don't know.

She talks a lot about how they have made this arrangement to best raise their kids. She seems to have a very high opinion of him as a father. And thats great and all, but his behaviour towards her is questionable.

This is his 2nd marriage that has gone south.

I can imagine the blow to her self-esteem, being told that she is nolonger desirable, and I struggle to understand her loyalty to him.

It's one thing to think he's a good dad, and want him in the kids life.

It's another to not be willing to extricate herself from this weird situation.

[Big Aus]

You could request the option to verify all of this with the husband. I suspect she won't agree as, even IF she's telling the truth about all this, it may be rocking the boat a bit too much for her.

 

That said, if she's genuinely in an open marriage, it should be genuinely open - you should be able to verify what she is saying with the H by some mechanism and in a calm and adult manner.

 

If she is very attractive and wants you, you must be at least pretty decent yourself. So, presumably you would have the option to date other, single, women should this not work out.

It's not an open marriage.

What she claims is that they live completely separate lives. They split parenting 50/50, and live in the same house.

 

And its not like there's anything to verbally verify.

What I'm questioning is her attitude. Whether in fact she is still too emotionally invested in this weird relationship.

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Am I missing something? If she's still married and not in an open marriage, then she's basically cheating on her husband. "Living separate lives" while married still = married. Maybe not emotionally married, but certainly legally married.

 

You're wise to be wary of the situation. You might one day find out the husband is VERY upset at her activities. You only know what she is telling you, and it might be a bunch of baloney.

 

Suggest you strongly consider walking away from this. I assume there are plenty of women in Australia without weird baggage like this...

[Big Aus]

well yes, that's the fundamental question isn't it?

 

The legality of this is not really the issue.

If they were divorced, or in fact never actually married, it wouldn't make any difference.

It's the weird living and parenting arrangement that is of concern.

[MJJean]

It's the weird living and parenting arrangement that is of concern.

 

 

I have heard of divorcing couples sharing a home and co-parenting while the kids are young or for financial reasons. That said, these are couples who have actually filed legal papers and openly date other people. It's relatively rare, but it does happen.

 

That isn't what you describe.

 

They are married without any legal separation or divorce papers filed. They live in the same house. They're raising kids together. Unless the husband is willing to verify they are no longer a couple and that she is free to date, I'd treat this exactly what it looks like. A woman committing adultery.

 

"We live separate lives and aren't together anymore" is the oldest line in the Cheater Handbook. Saying that as a former WW.

Edited September 22, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Beendaredonedat]

Well, Please don't take this the wrong way... I'm just pointing out the obvious from where I'm sitting: You say in your other thread that your first wife was mentally unfit now here you are contemplating someone that hasn't yet cut ties with her spouse, is either lying about fear of not getting custody or is mentally unfit as well and wouldn't qualify.

 

Why would you put yourself in a position to be used and/or abused emotionally by a married woman with all that baggage.

 

She may be hot but she's not in a position to give you anything good if either of you are not looking for casual sex (which you both have confessed to not wanting just that).

 

Surely you understand that you would never be invited to this beach front home she SAYS she lives in with her HUSBAND. (see what I did THERE?).

Edited August 22, 2019 by Beendaredonedat

[Big Aus]

Obviously the information I have is from her. We're in the process of setting up a date, but until then she could be a bloke called Sergei living in Moscow. Yes obviously all facts need to be verified, but until then there is no reason to question her recitation of the facts.

 

What I am questioning is her ties to the current situation and whether she'll actually be willing to leave it behind.

[Amethyst68]

I had presumed you had at least met her but going by your last post this was a mistake. So can I ask how you met? Was it an online dating site or an affair site? Or did you meet on a forum and just start chatting? I guess I'm wondering if your MW was actively online looking for her next husband while still married, (I'd be curious to know if he knows it too).

 

OP, the more you share the more red flags I see, TBH, I would doubt this woman is separated. I think if you contacted her husband for clarification he would have no clue that he and ex-wife were sleeping in different bedrooms or even if they were there are perfectly happy couples that do this because of shift work, snoring, young kids...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the excuses start happening to postpone the real life dates and actual meeting. It wouldn't fit in with the fantasy life she has created.

 

Now understand I could be completely wrong and everything she has told you could be true. Like I said it's just not sitting right with me. Personally I would pull back until you see some action on her part.

[MJJean]

What I am questioning is her ties to the current situation and whether she'll actually be willing to leave it behind.

 

If she was willing to leave she'd be separated and in process of a divorce as we speak.

[PhoenixRising8]

I have to say, you gave some really good advice on another thread. So why aren't you taking it yourself? This is someone you haven't even met! There are too many red flags to even bother. Why put yourself in that position?

[Zona]

 

Now keep in mind, that in Aus:

Custody invariably goes to the mother (usually with every 2nd weekend at Dad's) unless there is a very compelling reason.

Property split usually starts at 50% for the woman, and goes higher if there are kids to be provided for.

Unless it has to be sold, the family home usually goes to the mother, at least until the kids are grown.

There is government enforced Child Support.

 

Based on this, why on earth would you want to re-marry?

 

If my marriage ends up falling apart because of my WW's actions, I plan on staying single.

[Beendaredonedat]

Obviously the information I have is from her. We're in the process of setting up a date, but until then she could be a bloke called Sergei living in Moscow. Yes obviously all facts need to be verified, but until then there is no reason to question her recitation of the facts.

Said every person ever hood-winked by a married pursuer.

 

What I am questioning is her ties to the current situation and whether she'll actually be willing to leave it behind.

No, she will not. If she was willing then she would already be gone. Or: She is just waiting for someone who can offer her another beach house existence that is equal or better. Can you deliver? Which of course, if its the case (and odds are high that it is)makes her a monkey branching gold digger at best or a cheating liar at worse.

[gettinoverit]

This is a woman you've never even met?! Man - WALK AWAY!!! As you rightly point out this COULD be Sergei in Moscow! Maybe not, but there are way too many red flags for someone who professes to want to consider remarrying in the future, as opposed to just a bit of fun.

 

As others have pointed out, you have given excellent advice in other threads. Physician, heal thyself!

[pepperbird]

op,

What's the big mystery here?

She's lying. You have given her a safe place to land if she chooses to leave, but she didn't, and then she did the same thing many WH do. She uses her kids as an excuse.

 

 

 

My guess? Her hubby is in the dark about their "separated but living together", and she's been spinning you a yarn. If you want to find out the truth, then ask her husband. Surely, if they are separated but still living together as she claims, then he'd have to expect her to see other guys. Hearing from you couldn't be that much of a shock.

[Big Aus]

So we finally met up.

Went on a doggy date to the beach.

 

One thing I'll say, which may or may not tie into anything else, its that she's a bit ditzy. Took a while to commit to a date, then changed it from movie, to dinner, to doggy, then was bringing her son, then asked me to pick them up, then decided that was pushing it, etc, etc.

And that's kind of reflected in her attitudes and actions towards her current circumstances. Just all over the place.

 

Turns out her husband basically had some kind of breakdown. Claims he always felt that way, but managed to hide it?

 

I got a bit more detail on some things, but its not 100% clear. They live attached to a beachside "campsite". Originally they took on the job of Caretakers/Managers. Then he had his breakdown, and they quit the jobs, but still live there.

She pays no rent. Not sure how that works.

I gathered they basically have nothing much in the way of assets.

 

My concern is 3-fold:

1. Practically extricating her from that mess. Her general ditzyness explains some of it, but would also make it difficult to form a plan and move forward.

2. I'm concerned that the mental-health of her husband is going to be an issue either way. If he starts to get better she may want to try again, and if he gets worse she may not want to leave.

3. Even if we got to "happily ever after" we've got a decade of the husband being involved in her son's life.

 

For the record, I basically accept her version of events & circumstances.

However, and I think we may have been posting at cross purposes, I agree with the basic message of many of the posters here:

She IS still married, and it's more than a matter of simple administration.

Whatever the actual details may be, in her mind, in his mind, in the eyes of the law, its a very messy situation.

And yes, she is looking for a ticket out, but unsure about taking the next steps herself.

 

Thanks everyone, this has really helped.

Edited September 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[BTDT2012]

Just be aware that if you get together, and things get tough, she will bail on you.

[mark clemson]

Hmmm. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it sounds like her life is in mostly in shambles. I suspect you may be her attempt to "hypergamy out" of the situation. While it's understandable perhaps to wish to extricate herself, it's also still cheating on her husband. It sounds very much like this is being done with the intent of bettering her circumstances and leaving him to sort out his problems (presumably ineffectually).

 

She'd probably simply walk out on him or divorce, but she can't risk losing what little she has. Hence she is attempting to monkeybranch to you.

 

And of course there is the child in the mix.

 

Even if she wasn't still married, are you sure this is a person you'd want to bring into your life? Aside from being female, what exactly does she offer? Are you falling for a KISA situation here? It sounds like her family needs social services. Instead she's trying to leave.

 

People who are trainwrecks often turn their partner's lives into trainwrecks as well. Maybe this happened to her. Maybe she could do the same to you.

 

My suggestion would be to walk away.

 

Apologies if this isn't what you wanted to hear.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Leave. This. Alone...before you become too entrenched. There are better options out there.

[justwhoiam]

Trying to read between the lines... the camping place and the house are his. She has nothing. They got together, got married and she started helping him manage the camping site. But something went wrong... and maybe his "breakdown" has something to do with her. They decided to stay together for the kids, but are not a couple anymore. She's playing her role façade for the kids.

 

If the above was true and she decided to leave she'd put herself in a very risky situation: without a job and without a home. Since she's the one leaving for another man, he'd keep the children, because what's his fault? Also, maybe there's stuff he can bring up about her (e.g. multiple cheating), so he'd keep the kids because he's the most stable one in the couple.

 

 

I would just drop the whole thing. Not worth it.

[Big Aus]

Trying to read between the lines... the camping place and the house are his. She has nothing. They got together, got married and she started helping him manage the camping site. But something went wrong... and maybe his "breakdown" has something to do with her. They decided to stay together for the kids, but are not a couple anymore. She's playing her role façade for the kids.

 

If the above was true and she decided to leave she'd put herself in a very risky situation: without a job and without a home. Since she's the one leaving for another man, he'd keep the children, because what's his fault? Also, maybe there's stuff he can bring up about her (e.g. multiple cheating), so he'd keep the kids because he's the most stable one in the couple.

 

 

I would just drop the whole thing. Not worth it.

Not quite, the campsite is owned by a community group of some kind. (The info on that is publicly available)

 

She actually has quite a reasonable and responsible job elsewhere. I don't know if he's still employed by the campsite..

In Aus the mother gets custody, and there is government mandated child support.

 

I'm just going to try and be honest. I'm guessing it won't go down too well.

I would suspect the attitude will be that I'm putting the cart before the horse, but I don't see any alternative.

I don't want to wait til we're both "head over heals" before figuring out that she can't extricate herself from this mess

[5x5]

In Aus the mother gets custody, and there is government mandated child support.

 

Sure years ago up into the 90s. Yet not today as the standard in Australia, is for shared custody arrangements. Unless there are mitigating issues like domestic violence, criminal conduct etc.

 

As to child support one of my (male) mates as the custodial parent, received child support payments from his ex-wife. While he was the primary custodial parent, of their now adult children.

 

By the way you're not the only Australian posting here on Loveshack. There's a few of us about. I'm a Sydney native myself (on my second marriage), who has lived in different states. From inner city places, the coast, a small isolated rural town on the edge of the outback and some other places between.

[5x5]

As to this idea of worrying about happily ever after, and falling head over heels and all the rest. I encourage you to ease up on thinking about the future.

 

You've barely dated her! You might find she's a dead root, when you share sex with her. Or become bored of her after a short while. Likewise she might find you to be a dead root, or get bored of you as well.

 

For three years Between my divorce and having sex with my now wife. I had around two dozen sexual partners, while turning down plenty of others. Including one I was with for over six months, before I dumped her.

 

Since I was pacing myself, I didn't have sex with anyone, I wasn't attracted to and willing to be with for a long haul. So I was open to more, yet I wasn't ever looking for more. Of which plenty of those women, were not looking for forever with me either.

 

My now wife being with me, started as nothing more than some lustful winter fun. Neither of us were looking for anything more, than to share some hot sex for a short while before moving on.

 

So chillax and have fun with women. See if you're compatible or not sexually and all the rest before thinking about investing whole lives and families together.