BaileyB Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I seriously don't understand this... a mother needs to "earn" the respect of her kids???? I am sorry but I don't understand this. The child is learning to disrespect her mother. One can not demand respect. Whatever respect the child had for her mother can most certainly be lost if/when that parent behaves in a way that is selfish and immature, considerate to others in the family, or hurtful. Is that not exactly what is happening here? Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 No one was saying that the mother should be "demanding" respect. The father should be helping his daughter to learn to respect her mother by co-parenting with his ex instead of putting his child in the middle to make grown up decisions. That's how I am seeing it. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Unfortunately the mother put her child in this position by her actions. Maybe she should grow up. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I seriously don't understand this... a mother needs to "earn" the respect of her kids???? I am sorry but I don't understand this. The child is learning to disrespect her mother. I think both are true. Yes, children must learn to respect adults, and it IS an ongoing process that continues through the teen years. The flip side is that the adult does need to be worthy of respect. (Note: I wish I felt like I understood the dynamic here to offer concrete suggestions to OP, but honestly I don't. ) Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 OP is setting the example and teens are rebellious to start with so if he is always bad mouthing the other parent what do you think the end result will be? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) OP is setting the example and teens are rebellious to start with so if he is always bad mouthing the other parent what do you think the end result will be? Where does it say that he is badmouthing the other parent? Seriously, I haven’t read this discussion super closely but where does he say that? Based on what I’ve read, it sounds like he has been exceptionally fair and kind toward the mother of these children - despite her rather outrageous behavior toward her husband and her children. He has been a very responsible parent - consistent and stable when they have needed that the most. No doubt, the 13 year old feels this and it is a big part of the reason why she is choosing to be with her father. This woman has made her choices. One of the consequences for her decisions is that her child/ren have lost respect and don’t want to be with her. It’s as simple as that. Edited October 13, 2019 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Don't all teenagers or most teenagers disrespect their parents? How do you handle it if your kid starts disrespecting you? Do you say... oh I must of done something to lose it? We are talking about a child not an adult. The child is still impressionable and just from this thread alone I can tell the OP is very bitter about his ex... He may have encouraged it to start with just so he could win his custody battle we don't know. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 just from this thread alone I can tell the OP is very bitter about his ex... The OP is being candid about his feelings here, one of the benefits of an online forum. It's a stretch to say he's poisoning the well and in fact... I've talked with my kid about this, and told her that if she doesn't at least go out with her mother once in a while, then the arguing and possible court dates will continue. AND, regardless of her feelings, she still needs a relationship with her mother. ... he seems to be doing more than many divorced parents to help build a bridge... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 just from this thread alone I can tell the OP is very bitter about his ex... It is possible to feel bitter toward your ex and not put that child’s mother down to the child. He may have encouraged it to start with just so he could win his custody battle we don't know. No, we don’t know for sure. But that is a real assumptions to make and a terrible thing to be wrong about. Children are smart. I am living with a fifteen year old now who is very aware of the fact that his father provides a stable and happy home. He is very aware of the fact that his mother has mental health issues and is very unreliable. The parent/child dynamic is definitely reversed in that he withholds things that he knows will upset her. He is very aware of the fact that life is stressful in her home and although he doesn’t say it often, he much prefers his weekends with his dad. I don’t believe that all teenagers are rebellious. I wasn’t rebellious and although I wasn’t a perfect child, I always respected my parents. As did my brother. As did my friends - unless they were given good reason not to respect their parents. If this child is acting out, there is a probably a good reason for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 No I am not saying that at all but it just came across that way and I buried myself deeper trying to explain myself... I give the OP kudos to wanting to do the right thing. Kids mimetic adults. I just wanted to provide a different perspective. I don't buy into the mindset that a mother needs to earn respect from her underage kid. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 It is possible to feel bitter toward your ex and not put that child’s mother down to the child. No, we don’t know for sure. But that is a real assumptions to make and a terrible thing to be wrong about. The ugliest thing on earth is a custody battle. Nothing has to be beyond a reasonable doubt... it only has to be the ponderance of fact. Yes is possible to feel bitter toward an ex and not put the other parent down in front of the kid. Maybe he doesn't realize it or maybe he is talking with other people and she is over hearing what is going on. I am not making any assumptions. I am just saying maybe... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I just wanted to provide a different perspective. I don't buy into the mindset that a mother needs to earn respect from her underage kid. Always appreciated, even if there are disagreeing opinions. I personally believe that children come into this world loving and respecting their parents. I once remember a beloved boss telling me (relating to a very bad senior manager), that every coworker is entitled to respect. Whether they earn/keep that respect, depends on how they manage the workplace and treat their employees. In my very humble opinion, the mother-child relationship is not that much different... Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 …. unless the adults around the mother are treating her with disrespect then the child learns that behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 …. unless the adults around the mother are treating her with disrespect then the child learns that behavior. Sure. There is no indication that that is the case here. And again, based on the information that has been shared here, if the mother was acting in a more mature, considerate, and responsible way then it would probably not even be a question... A mother can not threaten to call the sheriff and force her child to come and stay with her and expect her child to have any love or respect for her as a mother. Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 What did the mother do that was so bad that her daughter should be disrespecting her? Maybe I am not understanding that. Custody battles are ugly and yes parents do call the sheriff to try and enforce custody arrangements. The child is only 13 not 15 or 16 or 17 or 18. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Read the whole thread it's all there Link to post Share on other sites
Rayce Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Read the whole thread it's all there I did... I still don't buy into that mindset. I think the mother deserves to be treated with respect regardless of how she acted. IMO the sooner the OP and his ex are on the same page then the better the next several years will be... otherwise... it will be... let's play one parent against the other all over who is good enough to be respected. She is learning a good lesson here. Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 You can't make anyone do anything. She hasn't learned a thing from what I've seen. She's trying to force the issue. The daughter at her age in a lot of jurisdictions has a say in who she stays with. If I was the OP I'd let his X fix this. She's the one who caused it. Respect is earned no matter how you look at it. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I think the mother deserves to be treated with respect regardless of how she acted. What? All you have to do is read the paper or old threads here to see there are mothers - fathers too - deserving zero respect, consideration or affection from their children. No relationship holds up "regardless..." ... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Blind-Sided Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 WOW !! way more input than I expected... but honestly, thank you all for this. I love to hear every angle, and it's always helpful to me. Debate, when properly done, helps eveyerone involved learn. Your ex feels betrayed by her daughter. She is hurt and in no mood to bend over backwards to accommodate a kid who has made it plain she is not on her side. I absolutely agree with you on this. This is how the EX feels, and is seeing things. Your daughter picked a side and is now suffering for it, she is now hurt that her mother is not picking her over your other daughter... and her mother seems to be getting on with her life. I guess she wants it all to go back to normal and blames her mother for moving on when she should be doing everything to put it all back together. Both are digging in. Yes, both are digging in... agreed. But on the point that the EX is moving on... I don't agree. Sure, she is moving forward with life in general... but the EX is the one who is pushing the issues. I've asked for her to give her daughter time, and let me try to smooth things over. But, the EX just wont let it happen. The EX has a picture in her head on how life should be at this point, and it's simply not happening. This is just a thought and a suggestion from an outsider's perspective. I think it'd be helpful for you to have a talk with your child that the marriage problems and ongoing legal issues are between you and your ex only. Well... unfortunately, we are past that. The Divorce is final, and all paperwork has been signed. I even have my official decree, with a county seal stamped into it. AND, the ex has been moved out for almost 3 months. SO... any legal issues that come up are directly related to my 13yo. Even when we got pulled into court last month, my 13yo directly told her mother... "Why are you taking me to court? I didn't sign the agreement!" (she's advanced for a 13yo) BTW, I'm glad you're trying to bridge the gap. I'm sure there's a lot of hurt there between them. Thanks for understanding. I agree that my kid needs a normal life, and that's why I've been letting her try to do what she wants. Honestly, if the tables were turned, I would just let some time pass, and stay in contact with her. It’s hard for any child to go back and forth between parents, in the best of circumstances. It’s going to take time and it is an adjustment for everyone. I couldn't agree more. The funny thing is... my younger daughter (8yo) is fine with it. She's with me this week, and it's like no big deal. I think part of that is because she is oblivious to the deeper issues that caused her mother to want to leave. There have been a few things that have come up, and my response has always been... "That's a problem best left to xxxx." It’s even harder when your mother has her feelings hurt and is acting like a child. ......... Your daughter has a right to be angry with her mom for how she has treated her children. I can't deny that at all. The funny thing is... months ago... before the custody agreement was drafted... the EX was yelling at me about "Our daughter can make up her own mind, and it doesn't mater what you want!" But now that it's the other way around it's... "Well, she's 13 and has to do what she's told." LOL. I’m sorry this is so hard. It will get better but probably not for a very long time. Unfortunately, your daughter may chose not to have much of a relationship with her mother. Whatever happens, their relationship will never be the same. And that’s very sad... I agree... it's sad. My EX isn't a bad person per-say. For the last 20 years, she put everyone else's needs before hers... but one day, she snapped, and I was the target. Part of the issue here is... now that I can't really be the target... our 13yo is. Thanks for all the input !!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Blind-Sided Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) ...... I'm sure your bitterness toward your ex is coming across really loud and clear. I really feel for your exwife because it seems the child is learning that it is ok to disrespect her mother by refusing to go visit. Who is in charge? .... There is no bitterness in this house. I make sure of that. I actually shut it down if I hear my 13yo saying something when my 8yo is around. AND, I even curb any comments when me an my 13yo are alone. To you comment that she is learning to disrespect her parent... well, I kind of agree here. Unfortunately, it has come from her mother. To give you a quick recap on things.... When this divorce came down, the EX started talking to my 13yo about how evil I was, and that they all needed to get away from me. (the EX and my 2 daughters) She let her in on the local gossip group, and she heard how they were getting a protection order on me to get me thrown out of my house. She also saw her mother going to a woman's abuse center to get help on how to get out of this ABUSIVE situation. She listened for several months, on the lies that my EX was spreading about me to all the "Girl scout Moms", and she started to see how it was messing up their (the kids) relationships with their friends. (Because their friends couldn't come to the house anymore) And to top it off... my 13yo saw that her mother was pushing her to live full time with her, and only allow "Visitation" with me. So... one day, my 13yo finally said to herself... "Dad is a good guy, and maybe I should find the truth." And, basically the depth of the lies, and my EX trying to convince my 13yo to get away from me backfired on her. The child has a right to her feelings. ...... Absolutely. And the EX use to say that all the time to me. I seriously don't understand this... a mother needs to "earn" the respect of her kids???? .......... She does when she was the cause of the loss. Trust me... a year ago, she loved and respected her mother. Perhaps I’ve missed this OP, but has your family and/or your child been able to go for family counselling and/or individual counselling? ........ Well... the EX is seeing someone. (and is medicated) Unfortunately, that person is tied to the abuse center, and even female friends are telling me they may be doing more harm than good since they assume that she came out of an abusive relationship. (Also, my buddy in CYS said the same) Unfortunately the mother put her child in this position by her actions. Maybe she should grow up. BINGO !! (Note: I wish I felt like I understood the dynamic here to offer concrete suggestions to OP, but honestly I don't. ) I have always seen you make good posts here. Read the above, and you will get it. OP is setting the example and teens are rebellious to start with so if he is always bad mouthing the other parent what do you think the end result will be? Nope... Never bad mouthed the EX to anyone. In some ways I've defended her. The only negative thing I've ever said was she is mentally unstable. But that's being truthful. She has displayed almost manic/bipolar tendencies, and there is a family history of this. Her mother is simply a mean person who has been medicated for who knows how long... and one of her sisters has been medicated for sever anxiety. Even my ex has been medicated for longer than I realized. (she hid it from me) Don't all teenagers or most teenagers disrespect their parents? ................. Nope... I know a lot of them who have only ever loved and respected their folks. Including me. I didn't have to rebel since I was able to make my own bad choices, and my mom was there to pick me up, and help me learn from them. The OP is being candid about his feelings here, one of the benefits of an online forum. It's a stretch to say he's poisoning the well and in fact... ... he seems to be doing more than many divorced parents to help build a bridge... Mr. Lucky Thanks. You are always a ray of hope. Can't wait to get into your neck of the woods for a beer. Edited October 14, 2019 by Blind-Sided Link to post Share on other sites
Author Blind-Sided Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) The ugliest thing on earth is a custody battle. Nothing has to be beyond a reasonable doubt... it only has to be the ponderance of fact. ..... I know... in this world, the man in particular is "Guilty until proven innocent." When the EX pulled us into court, the main point was "The mother BELIEVES that the father has disparaged her to the minor child." When I read that in the documents, I knew this was nothing more than her abuse center lawyer trying to make a case on me. But when my daughter was pulled in to talk with the judge, and read off her list of things such as... "My mother said I would be my dad's slave if I moved in with him."... it got turned around quick. Sure... I still got a motherly scolding from the judge because the documents were only signed a few moths back... but there was no judgment on me either. What did the mother do that was so bad that her daughter should be disrespecting her? ..... I tried to be fair and honest in this... but it's the EX who has pulled her daughter into a custody battle... and yes... has called her daughter and point blank said she would send the sheriff to come get her if she didn't go willingly. How is a kid supposed to show love and respect when her mother is doing this to her? Edited October 14, 2019 by Blind-Sided Link to post Share on other sites
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