He's really gone this time

[SSE]

I think her words contain a lot of wisdom. But somehow there’s a part of me that is stubborn and my body is clearly trying to resist that part. I’m thinking of asking him what he meant when he asked me if I would want him if he’s single. I don’t know if he would answer honestly or lead me on again. Although my friend doesn’t understand why I would want a chance with him.

When I was with him during the affair (and even before) most of his talk was about money and money laundering. I remember one time he sent me an email with screenshots from Google Maps. These were all his estates. The email mentioned he actually doesn’t have to work anymore and can retire because he has so much estates. He’s a business man after all, but it made me mad he bragged about his money which was earned in an illegal way while I’m a ‘good’ citizen that pays her taxes. I don’t care that much about money.

Another thing he really liked to talk about was sex. His jokes were sexual almost the entire time. Not only with me, but also with our co-workers. Off course, he also asked how I’ve been, if everything was ok with my parents etc., but most of our conversations would get a sexual tone. Even when we were just co-workers. I remember him wishing me happy birthday and saying he knew what I got as a present. A black dildo cause I need a big one… I didn’t find that funny at all. But at other moments, he could be hilarious.

I felt really bad when I mentioned some details of my ex-boyfriend to MM. I know it’s none of his business, but when it comes to MM, he pushes some boundaries and I cave. Just like in the old days. I realize it, but do it anyway. If you would know me, I’m not a pushover. But when it comes to him, I am. I think if I would have a (real) relationship with him, I would do anything to please him because I would be so scared that he would leave me if I didn't. That doesn’t sound healthy at all.

[BaileyB]

If I may, your last two posts make good sense and they have a very different tone from the emotional reasoning of your previous posts. 

You know what you need to do - now you just need to do it.

[SSE]

I'm scared Bailey. And lonely. I miss having someone special in my life. I miss being in love, a feeling I never really experienced with my ex-boyfriend, but with MM in the beginning. 

I don't want to date again after Corona. I didn't like it one bit. But I will have to I'm afraid. Most of the time I find it too forced, with MM it took me months to fall in love. That came in a more natural way. 

Will I make a fool of myself if I would ask MM what he meant with "would you give me a chance if I was single"? 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, SSE said:

Will I make a fool of myself if I would ask MM what he meant with "would you give me a chance if I was single"? 

There is no good answer to that question. He is not single. And he has no intention of being single in the future...

Honestly, he plays with you like a cat with  string and you come back time, after time, after time. He jerks you around but you never give up the hope, which is why he continues to jerk you around... 

I hear you. You are lonely. You want to find a relationship. I have been there, felt that pain, and wondered if it would ever happen for me. 

I can guarantee you that it will not happen with this MM. You will NOT have a happy, healthy, and monogamous relationship with this man - he apparently doesn’t do that. Your best friend also said it. You REALLY need to loose that fantasy, 

You will also NOT find what you are looking for if you continue to focus your thoughts and your emotional energy on a dead end relationship. 

I have said it before and I will say it again, I would be happily single, pursuing my own plans than in a bad relationship, a bad marriage, or an affair. Without a doubt, I would live my whole life as a singleton if need be, there are worse things in life than being single. 

You need to get to that place. That, I would say is your lesson - to develop self confidence, independence, courage, resiliency, and self worth. When you have learned that lesson, you will find the person who is meant to come into your life. Right now, you wouldn’t notice him if he drove right into your car - crash! 

Sure, dating is hard but everyone has to do it. Sure, have better luck than others. But, clinging to an unavailable man who hurts you because you are scared/unwilling to do the work and take a risk in not an option - not if you ever want to find happiness. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by BaileyB

[Difficultstuff]

Reading your last few posts I get a sense often of you taking two steps forward and one step back - but at least you're moving and going in what you seem to know is the right direction.

I really empathise with your loneliness. I'm feeling it too, especially given the lockdown. My situation was not quite as involved as yours, didn't get physical or that serious. But I was in love and still miss her, though differently as time goes on.

Not to be harsh, but it's not really about whether you make a fool of yourself, more that you keep allowing him to make a fool of you. You're right, and you know it: doing anything to please him would not be healthy, and it also wouldn't, to my mind, be a real relationship at all.

[SSE]

It’s not that easy. One moment you think rationally and the other one you’re emotional. The thing that keeps me hooked on him is the idea that I could have a good relationship with him. I think he also knows how to play me, he definitely knew how to do that in the past. Saying it’s not going well in his relationship, that they argue a lot, asking if I would move for him (we live about 60 miles apart) etc. So you meet, have sex and afterwards, when you’re lying in his arms, he tells you will meet Mr. Right someday but you can’t be too picky… While he knows I wanted him to be my Mr. Right. And that he wanted to be invited to my future wedding because we’re such good friends… That was my breaking point 1.5 years ago. After that, he contacted me about 4 times saying he’s missing me, saying he needs young p*ssy (that was a joke off course…), asking if I had sex with anyone else and stating it was weird that I didn’t (sorry, I do have feelings and need to heal from everything that happened, so sex was the last thing on my mind). I know I can forgive, but I don’t forget.

What kind of relationship would I have with him? Clearly sexually, but what else? I know my friend already answered that question for me, but I keep thinking if it would be true. I know for certain I would feel very insecure, also because of everything he has said in the past. I remember clearly that, after I told him I loved him, he told me I shouldn’t wait for him, because he can meet another girl (not his wife!) and then I would be all alone again. While he knew I had a really hard time being single. I know he said it to keep me at a distance, I don’t know if he would actually search for another girl. But I do suspect he would not turn down sex with another girl if it was a possibility. I guess somewhere I had to appreciate his honesty and should have had the power to say NO when he came back after that. But I didn’t, I so wanted to believe he would chose me and would have a proper relationship with me.

I would also be very insecure about the distance between us. During the week I would be here because of my job so I wouldn’t see him. What would he be doing? His ex-wife would be nearby. Are they maybe reconciling? It would drive me crazy and I don’t know if he would ease my anxiety. I know what he’s capable of. He has no problem with lying to her and to me to get his way. Telling her he’s away with his friends. Telling me they have problems. In the past, it was clear he didn’t care about my feelings. I said a lot I was hurting, he said he understood, left me alone for a month (which was terrible), came back with nice words and then did exact the same thing that was hurting me so. I know I should have had a backbone, but somewhere, if you’re a decent human being, you stop hurting that person with your actions. Especially if you know they are sensitive and have feelings for you. You’re dealing with humans, not businesses. I see him perfectly capable of dumping me again for his wife saying it’s not that bad and I will have a new boyfriend in no time because I’m still young. But I can’t be too picky off course. And voila, SSE is out of the picture and all alone again... With no remorse or guilt from him. I'm quite sure I wouldn't even get a sorry, I never even got one in the past. 

And, the money, yes. I’m quite certain that would give him power in the relationship. And I wouldn’t be surprised if he used that in an argument to get his way. Knowing myself, because I long for a relationship and a family, I probably would do a lot to keep him happy. He gave up his wealth and family life for me, I hear him say. I would love him dearly, but I don’t know if I would get that love back.

I know I’m ranting about a possible relationship with him and the odds of that actually happening are quite slim. But I long for that relationship in my heart and I need to have a realistic idea of how a relationship with him could be. It will not be rosy rosy, I guess. My friend also said past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior. So possible cheating, lying to get his way, being insecure and hurt, insensitive comments about the fact I don't have much money, etc. Doesn't sound like a nice future. But the devil in me states that you don't know that would be the case... 

I'm fighting a war between my head and my heart. I still have feelings for him. I long for a lovely and warm relationship with a man I'm actually in love with, who gives me that feeling of being in love. Who would give me the feeling he loves me back. Just the way I am. That would be so nice. I don't know if MM would ever give me that. He hasn't in the past. Why would he do it now? He could perfectly do without me for the last 1.5 years. The pain of being lonely makes you do the stupidest things I guess. I don't know what I will do if he should contact me. I do know I cannot take that amout of pain again. 

Have a nice Easter everyone. 

[BaileyB]

The only person who can free you from this hell, is you. 

[Lylalou]

You need to listen to your head and your friend because you know the answers. You need to stop this hell because it won’t get any better he will always cause you to have doubts and insecurities because you do know what he is capable of.

Chances are even if he did leave, which I doubt due to finances and life style and why should he, you are there for sex and to boost his ego.

He could end up going back to his wife or finding someone new, my ex H had an affair and left me 20 yrs ago but would be back like a shot if I let him. I have also stupidly been in an affair for 7 yrs, but been no contact for 9 months now, so don’t think my harsh words are from the scorned woman they are not. Please see sense and find someone who makes you their priority, someone who makes you their No1 not 3 or 4.

[SSE]

I’m certain a relationship with him would be exhausting for me. I would be worried all the time probably. I would have a huge anxiety he would go back to her, after a couple of weeks with me. Indeed missing his child, life style, being the big businessman (he likes it when people look up to him), the life he had built with her. And I am already an anxious person by nature. Would not be good for my nerves.

Yesterday I started crying in my bed. I was rereading those 7 pages of hurtful things he had said. Doing what he did, coming back every time, knowing I longed for love. I was a sucker for his false hope, blind in love and honestly, after all the pain it brought me… I know I can’t forget, I will never forget, but I don’t know if I could forgive either. I don’t know if I could look at his face remembering the last time he ditched me at that parking lot. A smug look on his face when he drove away and me crying.

I don’t know why I have (still) feelings for this man. Maybe because he was the first man I loved? He didn’t treat me nicely. Not in comparison if you read other threads on LS. Some OW were treated with (some kind of) respect, got attention, talked about more things than sex and money,… Which would make it a lot more difficult to let go. I know I was so scared to lose him, to lose a potential relationship that I let him treat me the way he did. There were other man before MM that were interested, but I didn’t fell in love with them. With MM, I fell in love for the first time which was a great feeling at the beginning. I was so glad I finally found that and I was so scared to lose it… so he could play me like a fiddle. It sounds very dependent.

I admit it, I’m scared of being single all my life and I feel lonely. I see my friends and brother so happy, I want that as well. I know I do, especially after my first ‘normal’ relationship with my ex-boyfriend. I long for a child (I’m going to be 30 in September). Dreams…

[Difficultstuff]

I'm going to repeat a few things I've said before, and echo what some others have said to you recently, because I sense you need that right now.

First, I hear and understand and know all too well the kind of incessant thoughts you're having. I think that's part of letting this man go, as you know you must. You sound like you are (very painfully, very slowly) developing some new perspectives. You're changing your outlook, and change can be very difficult and uneven.

Second, I think it's likely you have feelings precisely because he 'didn't treat (you) nicely'. I think on some level you may be attracted to that. That's not a criticism or judgement, it's just something you have to deal with and understand on your own terms. I think you've said you're in therapy but can't go right now - that's going to be the best place to work through what I'm talking about. Again, you're not alone in this. Many of us find ourselves attracted to people who treat us very poorly, and the pattern repeats until we are able to step back from it and refuse to accept that it has to be that way.

Third, I see a lot of positives in what you write. You talk about wanting a healthier kind of relationship with someone else, not this man. You look at people you know and want something like they have. That's really positive! And I say that as someone who does the same as you, who does sometimes still feel jealous of others, but who is beginning to believe he deserves to love and be loved properly too.

Lastly: yes, you fell in love! Yes, you were dependent, blind, anxious. All those things! That's part of what being in love is. It's not wrong. But the point, then, is for the two people involved to work together to mutually support and be there for each other while that's happening; to build something enduring and real together. This man is entirely and utterly incapable of that, as you know.

[SSE]

How do you forget about someone you loved/cared about? I didn't succeed in the last 1.5 year. The feelings also didn't change. I don't want to love him, he did nothing to deserve that, but I do. I still have this heartache in my chest. That heartache lingered since our last contact (that was about 1 year ago, a phone call) but got intensified after our chat, obviously. 

It hurts that he doesn't even send a small text to see how I'm doing during these times, while I was worried about him. Although I see he's active on WhatsApp.

I need to let go. It hurts like hell. I feel the pain literally. If I ever heal from this, it will be a scar on my soul, I'm sure of it. I will never forget this. 

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, SSE said:

How do you forget about someone you loved/cared about? 

You don’t forget. 

But you do, make a different decision. You focus on something else, rather than giving into this incessant thought spiral. 

That is all it is, simply a decision that you make - to foster your own happiness and look to the future, not the past. 

And as Henry Ford so wisely said, whether you believe you can do this or not, you will be right. 

[SSE]

Does that pain go away?

I know,  if it's lingering it takes longer apparently, but even after 1 year I still feel that heartache. 

I have the feeling thinking about him will always be painful as I don't have that many good memories with him. 

[heartwhole2]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:30 AM, SSE said:

It’s not that easy. One moment you think rationally and the other one you’re emotional. The thing that keeps me hooked on him is the idea that I could have a good relationship with him....

I know I’m ranting about a possible relationship with him and the odds of that actually happening are quite slim. But I long for that relationship in my heart and I need to have a realistic idea of how a relationship with him could be. It will not be rosy rosy, I guess. My friend also said past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior. So possible cheating, lying to get his way, being insecure and hurt, insensitive comments about the fact I don't have much money, etc. Doesn't sound like a nice future. But the devil in me states that you don't know that would be the case... 

I'm fighting a war between my head and my heart. I still have feelings for him. I long for a lovely and warm relationship with a man I'm actually in love with, who gives me that feeling of being in love. Who would give me the feeling he loves me back. Just the way I am. That would be so nice. I don't know if MM would ever give me that. He hasn't in the past. Why would he do it now? He could perfectly do without me for the last 1.5 years. The pain of being lonely makes you do the stupidest things I guess. I don't know what I will do if he should contact me. I do know I cannot take that amout of pain again. 

Have a nice Easter everyone. 

Having a good relationship with another human being isn't something you turn on or off at will. It's tied to your emotional health. It's something you learn with practice and intention. So no, he isn't suddenly going to turn on "Mr. Healthy Relationship" some day just like flipping a switch. That's because he lacks the empathy to desire a healthy relationship.

It's OK to care about someone against your will. Don't police your feelings. But please focus on loving yourself. When you do that, you won't be willing to accept these stale crumbs from him.

[BaileyB]

31 minutes ago, SSE said:

I have the feeling thinking about him will always be painful as I don't have that many good memories with him. 

I’m sure it will be. Which is why... you shouldn’t think about him every single moment of every single day...

Have you ever considered writing a letter to him? Write all your thoughts and feelings, all your lost hopes, all your pain in a letter to him and then... burn it. But when you write the letter and burn it, you need to be prepared to release it. It’s done. That is the turning point, from that moment on when thoughts of this man come into your mind - you don’t think about them, you let let it go...

[Lylalou]

I have been NC for 9 months and I think with this pandemic it has brought my thoughts daily to MM, but I know that will diminish when we get back to some kind of normality.  Strangely I thought the same as you that I couldn’t understand why I thought about him frequently but he obviously doesn’t think about me and on Friday he texted, I haven’t replied and haven’t read the message, not going to ruin my road to recovery.

You need to know you will be happy again, please don’t go back. Onwards and upwards. 

[moonman1]

This thread makes me sad.  I am sorry you feel this way.  Your MM does not deserve this.  You deserve better. I hope you make some positive changes in your life, you are worth it.  

[SSE]

Don't you think it's possible people change? That MM realizes he's doing his wife and me wrong by asking to meet again? 

[PhoenixRising8]

15 minutes ago, SSE said:

Don't you think it's possible people change? That MM realizes he's doing his wife and me wrong by asking to meet again? 

Read my threads and your question will be answered. My xMM was never disrespectful to me in words as yours but he played his wife, me and finally another OW. The short answer is he doesn't care who he's doing wrong or hurting. It's all about him. And so long as the women in his life turn a blind eye or tolerate it, it will go on and on and on ......

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, SSE said:

Don't you think it's possible people change? That MM realizes he's doing his wife and me wrong by asking to meet again? 

And then what...

I’m curious, how exactly do you want him to change? He realizes that what he’s doing is wrong... and then what? 

He would suddenly become a moral, responsible, respectful human being? He would then say goodbye to his other women, and finally become the husband that he should have always been. 

Or, would you like him to come back to you and apologize for doing you wrong? Tell you that you can never meet again and wish you well in your life. Because, if that is what you are wishing for... why can you not give this gift to yourself? Why are you waiting for this man...

Or, do you wish for him to realize that he’s doing his wife wrong, such that he decides to leave her and be with you?

I’m truly curious, why would you ask this, what would you want to happen?

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by BaileyB

[SSE]

During the affair, I felt really insecure. When he didn’t text me back after a while, or when he left me alone for some time, I expected he would tell me that he didn’t want me anymore. That he would reject me. He did reject me, however came back with confusing words for some more sex. Anyway, the rejection confirmed the idea in my head that I’m actually not good enough.

Now with the virus I texted him first. He asked to meet me again (after the crisis off course) and sent a lot of heart emoji’s. I fell for it (again). But at the same time I read in the news paper that this is a time that brings people closer together. So I sometimes think he will reject me again. Will not want to meet me anymore. Because this special period made him realize he has a great thing going on at home. That I am really not that special. That he confirms again I’m not good enough. That his wife is better in every single way. And that he knows that and from now on will be the best husband/father he can be for her and their child.

I don't expect to get an apology from him, ever. 

[BaileyB]

In other words, you are waiting for him to confirm again that you are not special, not good enough? 

You don’t really need him to do that. You do it already...

Your worth as a person, as a woman, does not come from a man. It matters not what he thinks, what he does, the state of his marriage. 

The only thing that matters is what you think of yourself. 

[SSE]

I suspect he's going to reject me again, although saying he missed me etc. I suspect it will be a long time before we could possibly meet. Isn't possible that (some) people realize during these special times that they need to change their lives for the better?

I don't know, my head always makes assumptions that are negative for me. For example when I was dating, I often thought. "Oh, your date will not want you, because you're fat and ugly". I know I have a major problem with seeing my own worth. Due to my father. The affair with MM made it so much worse. 

I long for seeing him again, but I don't know when that will be. If it will ever happen. I haven't heard from him in weeks now and I don't even get a text to ask how I'm doing. It hurts. The longing hurts. It seems like I feel the pain of the (future) rejection already/again. I already have had so much pain, I actually think I have suffered enough. But it's hard to let go of someone you love(d). Even though I know he didn't love me back and didn't treat me well. I feel the pain quite intensely, I just want it to stop. 

[Lylalou]

You need to stop your thoughts of the what ifs, it’s never going to happen you are not going to get the happy ever after with this MM, he is using you for his ego boost, affirmation and sex.

I still love my exMM but I can’t deal with the anxiety and questioning my sanity anymore, it’s taken me a long time to realise that but after 7 years of me wasting my life and all the wasted promises from him I couldn’t do it anymore. Please don’t waste anymore time on this guy who is going to make you feel worse about yourself yet again.

[SSE]

Is it possible he will cheat again? Isn't it possible that he has seen the light during these exceptional circumstances? Or do people just do not change?