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He's really gone this time


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It's probable that he is cheating just not with you. I'm sorry to be blunt but he's told you several times he would look for other OW what makes you think he hasn't done so? This man has probably found someone who plays by his rules and doesn't ask him to leave his wife, after all she's the one with the money isn't she? From what you've said he lives his lifestyle way too much to ever give it up!

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They rarely change, in our romantic thoughts there’s a chance he’s come to his senses, but I think we only have to read the threads on here to see that doesn’t happen often, and how do you know this situation won’t bring him closer to his wife, again doubtful, the most likely outcome is he will remain married because of children, finances and his reputation and you can remain on the outside for sex and that all important ego boost. 
Ive tried to rationalise everything that’s happen over the 7 yrs I was seeing MM but reality is he is still with his family, not me and your MM is where he wants to be. 

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heartwhole2
1 hour ago, SSE said:

Is it possible he will cheat again? Isn't it possible that he has seen the light during these exceptional circumstances? Or do people just do not change? 

Absolutely people can change. But it's like training for a marathon. If you haven't seen someone training for it, then no, they're not suddenly capable of running 26 miles. How will you know if someone is doing the training? They'll be super focused on it. They'll be reaching out to IC and discussing their goals with supportive friends. I

In other words, your MM is not changing. He could if he chose to, but even then it would take a lot of time, effort, and practice. It's not like flipping a switch. It's completely revamping your life.

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3 hours ago, SSE said:

Is it possible he will cheat again? Isn't it possible that he has seen the light during these exceptional circumstances? Or do people just do not change? 

Basically what heartwhole2 said. People do and can change if they actually put in the work, the determination and effort to. The fact that he's even leading you on with those texts and asking to meet you while still married tells you all you need to know. He's still the same lying cheater, and he's still cheating on his wife. What part of his behaviour are you drawing ideas or fantasies from that perhaps he's a different person now?

You don't want a man like that for a life partner. Even if he does divorce his wife and end up with you, can you imagine spending years wondering if he's cheating on you? He already told you as much how you are not the only OW. Just take a look at Edith's thread on the infidelity section about her husband cheating on her with the same woman (plus several others along the way) for a whole decade. Don't go there. If you cannot trust yourself to stay away, I'd suggest deleting, blocking his number, and delete all his message history. Then change your number. Don't leave even as much as a crack in the door for yourself to be sucked in back to him. Love yourself a bit more girl. Love yourself, even if it seems no one does.

Oh, on the point of people changing, changing for the worse is also a possibility you know.

Edited by assertives
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He never specifically mentioned he had another OW. He mentioned one time that I shouldn't wait for him, because it's possible he could meet another girl and then I would be all alone again. He also told me then I should think bad of him, so he told me he slept with another colleague. It wasn't true, but I had my doubts honestly. I'm quite certain he would f*** her if she would have let him.

Then he comes back after two months of NC, as if nothing happened and wanting to meet again. I confronted him with his previous words and he claimed they were not true. He doesn't see me as a f*** buddy, but he genuinely misses me, he doesn't f*** every colleague of him and so on. I did not want to meet anymore, but he kept in tocuh. A couple of weeks later he begins the talk about moving for him and his child (who says that if they don't mean it?!?) and you get sucked in again. 

You meet, have sex and when laying in his arms, he tells me I will find my Mr. Right someday, but that I shouldn't be too picky... I stood up, tears began to pop and I walked to his car so we could go to the parking lot where my car was parked. That was the last time I've seen him, now about 1.5 years ago.

In a relationship with him, I would be worried all the time. I know he can cheat with no remorse (so as it seems).

I thought people can change due to these exceptional circumstances. That he would see the light and be the best husband/father there is. Or does that sound too naive? 

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1 hour ago, SSE said:

He never specifically mentioned he had another OW. he doesn't f*** every colleague of hidaean e

I know he can cheat with no remorse (so as it seems).

I thought people can change due to these exceptional circumstances. That he would see the light and be the best husband/father there is. Or does that sound too naive? 

You do know that he can cheat with no remorse. Not as it seems - Period! full stop!

And because you know this personally, it is wise to assume that he has another OW. Several perhaps...

Yes, it is increadibly naive to think that people will change their character - regardless of circumstance. 

Due to exceptional circumstance, one might think that Donald Trump would listen to the medical experts and put the needs of the people ahead of his own personal self interest... but apparently, that isn't the case either. People with such deep personal character flaws don't change, and exceptional circumstances usually highlight their failure and lack of character even more than any other time...

Exceptional circumstances have caused you to take a big step back - to go back into your head, back into to your fantasy, and contact this man again. Exceptional circumstances provided an opportunity for this man to mess with your head again - after a year and half of NC - he certainly didn't pass on the opportunity when it presented itself... 

 

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2 hours ago, SSE said:

I thought people can change due to these exceptional circumstances. That he would see the light and be the best husband/father there is. Or does that sound too naive? 

Except that's not what you want is it?

What you want is for him to cheat again - with you. To leave his wife and family - for you. Once that's happened, then you'd like for him to somehow magically become this new man you've described above, but only once you're the one he's with.

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Bittersweetie

Have you tried meditation to help with spiraling thoughts? I recently started trying it, through an inexpensive app I bought for my phone. I have a tendency to get caught up in my thoughts so I wanted to see if it would help. It's been challenging for me but I like it. One thing the guided meditation says is "when you have a thought, don't follow it."

That's something I tend to do, and I think you may too. It was eye-opening to realize that I can have a thought, and NOT FOLLOW IT. And that's okay. Maybe the next time you have a thought that you know will lead you into a spiral, try not following it. Build your mental muscles.

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5 minutes ago, Bittersweetie said:

It was eye-opening to realize that I can have a thought, and NOT FOLLOW IT. 

Indeed. Just because a thought comes into your mind, doesn’t mean that you have to “act” on it, to follow it. 

Feelings are similar, they come and they go - often with what feels like the randomness of the wind. Just because you have a feeling, you are not obligated to act on it. In fact, it’s often better if one does not act on it, because “this too shall pass...”

I personally find it hard sometimes not to act on thoughts and feelings, because in the moment they feel like “a problem that needs to be solved.”  It’s only when I notice an obsessive thought and take a step back, that I gain perspective and that’s when I remember, I don’t need to act on this because this too shall pass...

Your thoughts create your reality. And, each of us has the ability to decide whether we want to attend to a particular thought or feeling, or not.

It’s in the choosing - which thoughts or feelings require your attention and action - that’s where you have the control...

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19 hours ago, SSE said:

I thought people can change due to these exceptional circumstances. That he would see the light and be the best husband/father there is. Or does that sound too naive? 

Girl.. He already is someone's husband and father. Even if he does change to become a better person, he does so by being a better husband to HIS WIFE and a better father to HIS CHILD. Not be a better candidate for a future husband to you and and future father to your future child. So what has him being a better person means anything to you?

If you wanted to get married and have your own family, you are squandering away precious precious time being caught up in this man. Even during the time when the affair was active, he has shown you how much he doesn't see you as a candidate for a serious relationship much less wife number 2.

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I actually ment being the best person there is for her and their child. That would confirm he has a nice and lovely side.

And that would make me wonder again why I wasn't worthy enough to experience that side of him. Why didn't I get to see that side of him? I'm sure he wasn't that rude to her. 

I miss him terribly these days. I never had these feelings for anyone else before. But indeed, it doesn't seem mutual. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SSE said:

I actually ment being the best person there is for her and their child. That would confirm he has a nice and lovely side.

And that would make me wonder again why I wasn't worthy enough to experience that side of him. Why didn't I get to see that side of him? I'm sure he wasn't that rude to her.

He is sleeping with other women, I call that rude. More than rude...

Who cares if he has a nice and lovely side - he certainly wasn’t nice and lovely with you. Stop imagining what he is like with his wife - he is sleeping with other women, he is treating her terribly... that’s all you need to know.

Why weren’t you worthy enough - you chose to sleep with a married man. You devalue yourself by doing that. Stop looking to this man to say - “You know what SSE, you may not think you are worthy, but I do.” No man is going to do that for you - you need to do that for yourself. Especially this man, he may say it because he wants to get you to give him a blow job... but otherwise, he is not a nice man, you are not his wife, and he does not care to build your self esteem.

I’m sorry to be blunt, but simply must stop waiting for this man to affirm your worth and value as a human being. He treated you badly because he is not a good man. He treated you badly because you allowed it. If he does not treat her badly, it is because she does not tolerate it. In much the same way that he probably doesn’t treat his boss badly, he knows he would be out on his but so his behavior is different at work than with you. Although, what he does with you is as hurtful as a man could be toward a woman - both to you, and to her. Poor woman, she is stuck with him while you have the opportunity to find another man who will treat you with love and respect - if you are willing and allow yourself to go and find it. 

Edited by BaileyB
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heartwhole2
5 hours ago, SSE said:

I actually ment being the best person there is for her and their child. That would confirm he has a nice and lovely side.

And that would make me wonder again why I wasn't worthy enough to experience that side of him. Why didn't I get to see that side of him? I'm sure he wasn't that rude to her. 

I miss him terribly these days. I never had these feelings for anyone else before. But indeed, it doesn't seem mutual. 

 

 

I'm sure he has some OK/nice qualities; most people do. But only a minority of people cheat on their spouses, so right off the bat you know he's not cream of the crop. It's like you've chosen to rob a bank with the guy and you're wondering if maybe he has an honest, law-abiding side. The trick is to find someone who wouldn't rob a bank in the first place.

You're a human being who is unique and special and worthy of love. That is absolutely true. But there are plenty of broken people in the world who will use and abuse you if given the chance. That is because *they* are broken. You really need to work on seeing the value in yourself and understanding that it doesn't depend on how anyone else sees or treats you.

Just because someone momentarily stops robbing banks doesn't mean they're honest and hard-working and trust-worthy. He lies and cheats because he's the kind of person who is OK with that. He's selfish and deceitful. 

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34 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

It's like you've chosen to rob a bank with the guy and you're wondering if maybe he has an honest, law-abiding side. The trick is to find someone who wouldn't rob a bank in the first place.

Just because someone momentarily stops robbing banks doesn't mean they're honest and hard-working and trust-worthy. 

This is really great! Well done, it proves a point... and it made me laugh 😂

Edited by BaileyB
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10 hours ago, SSE said:

I actually ment being the best person there is for her and their child. That would confirm he has a nice and lovely side.

Err no. He isn't the best person for her. She deserves better than a lying and cheating husband, exposing her to STDs and is also a bad role model for his child. He broke his marriage vows btw, and that is a rude slap to her. I'm not sure I remembered correctly, but it seems like she or her family was also bankrolling him in some ways. I'm sure she isn't perfect but nobody deserves to be cheated on.

10 hours ago, SSE said:

And that would make me wonder again why I wasn't worthy enough to experience that side of him.

You need to completely rewire/relearn your thought process. Your worth is not dependent on whether he or anyone for that matter wants to be with you or not. People with lovely personalities/are physically attractive have their fair share of heartbreaks too. Love and attraction don't always make sense or follow logic. Someone can be perfect on paper in having all the attributes you want in a partner, but yet you don't feel anything for them. But that doesn't make them unworthy doesn't it?

You really really need to work on your self-worth and identity independent of a relationship. Spend some time being single and work on yourself before going out to date. Someone who doesn't love herself or think very highly of herself is frankly not going to be very attractive to healthy individuals looking for serious relationships or to settle down.

 

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I couldn't help it and sent him a text to see how he's doing. I got a very short reply back and he didn't even ask how I was doing during these stressfull times. That indifference of him hurt me so much, that I decided to not text him anymore (hopefully I will succeed this time). He makes me feel so unimportant. I actually am unimportant. I guess some people here will be very pleased to read that. So you see, he has changed and is probably a good husband and father. 

It's easy said, be single and learn to love your self. You have no idea how hard I long to be loved. Like all my friends and family are loved. I am the only one who's single in my environment and has no love of a partner in her life. I've been single for almost my entire life. During NC I dated and I dated and I tried and I tried. Think I have met with about 20 men. I wanted to move forward in my life and close the chapter of MM. I was and am still very scared to throw my life away. But I've never had feelings for one of the guys I dated the way I had for MM. Not even for my ex-boyfriend who treated me so much better than MM ever did. Feelings don't seem to follow logic. I don't know if they will ever go away. 

I don't know what to do. I feel so worthless compared to actually everyone. I am the one who's single and all alone. I even remember MM once calling one of our co-workers pathetic because he was single... Guess he thinks the same way about me. 

I'm in pain and feel so alone in this world. I feel like I will have to spent the rest of my life all alone without the love of a partner that I also love (!) or the joy of a child in my life. I guess that some people here will also be very pleased to read that. 

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4 hours ago, SSE said:

I feel so worthless compared to actually everyone. I am the one who's single and all alone.

I used to think this way too for most of my life.. until I found this forum and started reading on here. My father used to say to me that I'm so fat, nobody is going to want to marry me. I wasn't exactly obese, and was actually at a healthy weight. Just that I wasn't a size zero. Still, I believed my father and I thought for the longest time that something must be wrong with me. Then I discovered LS out of literally nowhere. I started reading the posts on here out of boredom and I learned ALOT.

I see abusive people, wife beaters, serial cheaters, liers, drug addicts, and even felons (this was not from LS) have partners pining over them. I see people asking for help and outside perspective about their lazy, unemployed, dead beat partners. That made me realize that people get into relationships left right and center everyday, and that people who are in relationships don't necessarily have their life together or are better persons than people who are not. Case in point, you are pining for your MM even though he's abusive, treated you like s*** and is a cheater. On the other hand, I have met 2 other persons who are single and living very fulfilling lives. One is a dentist, he is very good looking, very warm, kind hearted, gracious and a patient man. Another guy is my father's age, he is both a doctor and a lawyer. Very down to earth and happy go lucky, always has a smile for everyone regardless of how bad a day he had. He treats everyone around him as equals and with respect. Both of them are obviously successful in their own right, have their s*** together, but does it make them any less than someone who is married with x number of kids? 

It's not just easy for us to tell you to love yourself. Alot of us have actually been through it ourselves and made out fair share of questionable decisions. We are sharing what we've learned along the way from our own experiences and from the experiences of others that we have come across. It's just like building a house. You need to make sure the foundation is laid well and sound, then followed by the roof, the windows and the door. Before you get to the fun part of decorating and personalizing the living space. You don't jump straight into decorating and getting that beautiful carpet when the roof is leaking. 

All that being said, even if you took absolutely squat away from everything I've written, and think that you prefer going about your own/current approach towards finding a partner, at the very least, know that you need to let go of MM. You will not get the family that you want and the spousal love that you yearn with this man. 

When this pandemic situation blows over, I urge you to continue regular therapy, not for anyone, but for yourself. You really do have alot of thought processes that are downright unhealthy and needs changing.

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5 hours ago, SSE said:

I couldn't help it and sent him a text to see how he's doing. I got a very short reply back and he didn't even ask how I was doing during these stressfull times. That indifference of him hurt me so much. I actually am unimportant. I guess some people here will be very pleased to read that. So you see, he has changed and is probably a good husband and father. 

I'm in pain and feel so alone in this world. I feel like I will have to spent the rest of my life all alone without the love of a partner that I also love (!) or the joy of a child in my life. I guess that some people here will also be very pleased to read that. 

Are you for real? After all this discussion, you sent him another text? And then, you come back here to say - that proves it, he is a good husband and father, I am truly unimportant. 

Friend, nobody here is pleased to read this update. Nobody here said you are unimportant. 

The only thing this shows is how determined you are to stick to your own storyline. You are clearly not ready to let this go. Your behavior has been, and continues to be, nothing short of self destructive.

You have no business dating, not until you can get yourself to a healthier place. Best wishes. 

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5 hours ago, SSE said:

I couldn't help it and sent him a text to see how he's doing. I got a very short reply back and he didn't even ask how I was doing during these stressfull times. That indifference of him hurt me so much, that I decided to not text him anymore (hopefully I will succeed this time). He makes me feel so unimportant. I actually am unimportant. I guess some people here will be very pleased to read that. So you see, he has changed and is probably a good husband and father. 

It's easy said, be single and learn to love your self. You have no idea how hard I long to be loved. Like all my friends and family are loved. I am the only one who's single in my environment and has no love of a partner in her life. I've been single for almost my entire life. During NC I dated and I dated and I tried and I tried. Think I have met with about 20 men. I wanted to move forward in my life and close the chapter of MM. I was and am still very scared to throw my life away. But I've never had feelings for one of the guys I dated the way I had for MM. Not even for my ex-boyfriend who treated me so much better than MM ever did. Feelings don't seem to follow logic. I don't know if they will ever go away. 

I don't know what to do. I feel so worthless compared to actually everyone. I am the one who's single and all alone. I even remember MM once calling one of our co-workers pathetic because he was single... Guess he thinks the same way about me. 

I'm in pain and feel so alone in this world. I feel like I will have to spent the rest of my life all alone without the love of a partner that I also love (!) or the joy of a child in my life. I guess that some people here will also be very pleased to read that. 

I'm sorry but this is going to sound harsh.

First of all you could have stopped yourself contacting him - you just didn't want to. You keep doing this to yourself, you contact him, try to insert yourself into his marriage (again) and then when it doesn't work out the way you want it to you post here trying to use it as proof he's now a good husband and father.

You need to stop doing this to yourself. I guarantee you this man is not thinking of you at this time. Who knows if he is being faithful, if he is it's probably due to the present circumstances and not any great moral turnaround. I sincerely doubt he's had any great breakthrough with his conscious and behaviour since your affair ended. I also doubt you were his last OW, I'm sorry but it's true.

No-one wants to see you alone, I'm sure the quarantine and isolation is making everything feel more intense, there's no escape just now but you really need to stop the drama cycle.

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lana-banana
7 hours ago, SSE said:

I couldn't help it and sent him a text to see how he's doing. I got a very short reply back and he didn't even ask how I was doing during these stressfull times. That indifference of him hurt me so much, that I decided to not text him anymore (hopefully I will succeed this time). He makes me feel so unimportant. I actually am unimportant. I guess some people here will be very pleased to read that. So you see, he has changed and is probably a good husband and father. 

It's easy said, be single and learn to love your self. You have no idea how hard I long to be loved. Like all my friends and family are loved. I am the only one who's single in my environment and has no love of a partner in her life. I've been single for almost my entire life. During NC I dated and I dated and I tried and I tried. Think I have met with about 20 men. I wanted to move forward in my life and close the chapter of MM. I was and am still very scared to throw my life away. But I've never had feelings for one of the guys I dated the way I had for MM. Not even for my ex-boyfriend who treated me so much better than MM ever did. Feelings don't seem to follow logic. I don't know if they will ever go away. 

I don't know what to do. I feel so worthless compared to actually everyone. I am the one who's single and all alone. I even remember MM once calling one of our co-workers pathetic because he was single... Guess he thinks the same way about me. 

I'm in pain and feel so alone in this world. I feel like I will have to spent the rest of my life all alone without the love of a partner that I also love (!) or the joy of a child in my life. I guess that some people here will also be very pleased to read that. 

All of your answers are here, you just aren't connecting the dots. Why do you accept such abominable treatment from someone who tells you he doesn't love you and only desires sex? You have no idea how hard I long to be loved...I feel so worthless compared to actually everyone..I was and am still very scared to throw my life away...I feel like I will have to spent the rest of my life all alone without the love of a partner that I also love (!) or the joy of a child in my life...

You're right: feelings don't follow logic, and right now your feelings are preventing you from doing the very necessary work you need to heal. But in order for them to go away you have to believe it. That means making the conscious choice to do better for yourself. That also means canceling this contender for the world's largest pity party. Seriously, you are at middle schooler levels of melodrama here, pouting about how you're destined to be alone and how everyone here is rooting for you to be miserable. Come on. Nobody is saying it'll be easy, but until you start telling yourself "I deserve to be happy" then you won't improve. Do you really want to be neck-deep in this smothering self-pity for the rest of your life?

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spiritedaway2003
2 hours ago, assertives said:

When this pandemic situation blows over, I urge you to continue regular therapy, not for anyone, but for yourself. You really do have alot of thought processes that are downright unhealthy and needs changing.

I mean this well, but it might also help you to step away from this board for a while.  It may actually make you feel worse in some ways, and I have no doubt you feel pretty bad about reaching out to him again as it is.

You don't need to wait until after the pandemic.  There are telehealth options that you could consider as well.  I wouldn't wait on it.  When it comes to your own well being, you should take charge.

I totally understand it's hard to let go when he's your first love (or the first person who made you feel that way) but truthfully, your MM sounds like an absolute prick.   I also see a recurring theme in your posts -- and that is your need to be in a relationship.  Or that time is running out (which is self-imposed).   It might be worth it to explore those things further...

Edited by spiritedaway2003
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38 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

You don't need to wait until after the pandemic.  There are telehealth options that you could consider as well.  I wouldn't wait on it. 

I could not agree more. You have actually never had more time or a better opportunity to do the work. 

Personal growth doesn’t happen during those times in life when things are going well. Rather, growth happen during times of adversity, when it becomes to painful to stay as we are and we are motivated to change...

I do hope that you reach out for professional help. The social worker at my work has been saying, people can cope for a few weeks but they will start to decompensate as this time of isolation continues. I feel like that is what is happening for you. You are without doubt attempting to throw the worlds largest pity party, but it is a pity party for one. As lanabanana says, you can waste your whole life in this seemingly endless cycle of drama, or you can seek help and make a shift. Either way, the decision is yours. 

Edited by BaileyB
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This morning my dad couldn't help it but say that his daughter in law is so much more pretty to look at than I am. She is so much more attractive (she's not overweight and has a very slim figure compared to me). And that it's logical that she could get a lot of men and I couldn't if you compare us. I also should really settle down with someone because of my age. It's time, he said. And he proposed another candidate that would want me the way I am right now. That guy isn't too picky because he also wants to settle down, so that's an ideal candidate for me according to my dad. I do feel a lot of pressure, but mainly because I would love to have children of my own someday. 

It seems the story of my life. I'm just not good enough for the important men in my life. Since the age of 18 I get critism from my dad because of my looks. My brother feels superior because he has a good relationship while being 6 years younger than me. MM didn't want me, I was only good enough for getting my holes filled. And my ex-boyfriend also criticized me because of my weight. All the men I love(d) give/gave me the feeling I'm not good enough. So yes, I think my sister in law and MM's wife are so much more better than me. They get to be chosen. So yes, it feels like I will have to spent the rest of my life alone. Because I wasn't good enough for any man (that I also love(d)). Why would I suddenly be good enough in the future? 

I know you're going to say, you dated 20 men, there will be someone out there for you that loves you the way you are. Maybe. But the problem is I have to love them back. There were very good guys amongst those 20 men, who I have dated more than once, but I just didn't feel it. I would love to be with someone I love as well. I think settling down must be very exhausting. I actually did that for a while with my ex-boyfriend. It is exhausting, but at least I wasn't alone like I am now. 

I indeed felt awful I contacted MM again. It confirmed my theory I'm not good enough. Don't think I will hear from him very soon again. Big chance I will never hear from him again. And yes, I think it's because he's very happy at home.

I feel the need to be in a relationship because the last time I recall that I was happy, was in the beginning with MM. I love him. Stupid. Illogical. But I do. Will I ever feel that way again for someone else? No idea. It hasn't happened so far. 

I'm from Europe, so I don't know if I can get help via Skype or something. I will send my therapist an email. I feel terrible. I just want to be loved, even though I'm overweight :( 

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TeddyBundy1993

I read it all. I m kinda in a similar situation as yours 27 very unattractive all alone. Ex Girlfriend 31 year old dated for 3 years pregnant with someone else kid text me time to time. I feel you when you talk about loneliness as I see my friends getting married and so so long. I say dont be pressurized by anyone or look at people who are your age and already settled. Take a day at a time dont think for a long shot. So you have tried dating and still doesnt work. Here no women wants to come near me, and I m f***ing escorts to assure myself that I can get sex huh atleast your are not in such bad state like me eehh. 

Dont fell in trap of the M.M I worked for one of such guy very similar to him, he was a player married but f***ed many young women around. He never changed, never. Now I don't know where he is maybe busted by his wife hahaha. He was same luring young girls for sex buying them gifts later on return to wife at night played perfect family man. 

How do you move on from here. Stop analyzing the situation with this MM. Just tell yourself he is a creep never loved you and saw you as a sex toy without feeling. Probably I can bet he will never change either,  point already proved when he didn asked how you are doing when you texted him. Please dont ruin your efforts, in this 1 plus year by going back to him in anyway. Keep hope, hope is the strongest thing and be positive.  Things will fall in place at the right time. Yes you have dated 20 men, you have high possibility on meeting the right one  keep the taps open. 

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mark clemson

I'd beware of letting your Dad play matchmaker for you. If you eventually settle for "pretty good" it should at least be YOUR choice IMO.

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