He's really gone this time

[RebeccaR]

You aren’t giving up the future you really want because he was never your future. He’s married to someone else and has 2 kids.

And no, of course just thinking positive thoughts won’t make your dreams come true.  You have to do the work - in your case, therapy. I am no psychologist, but I feel like you’re using your “love” for this man as an excuse not to move ahead with your life. I don’t think you’re really afraid of rejection because of your appearance, since you seem able to get dates quite easily. There may be some other reason you’re afraid of serious relationships or parenthood.

And I don’t think you really love this guy. Butterflies are nice but they aren’t a signal of a meaningful relationship. And I guarantee that even if he divorced and the 2 of you married and he was somehow a faithful husband (ha!), the butterflies would go away at some point and you would feel dissatisfied. You really need some understanding of what a supportive, mutual relationship entails before you’re ready to be in one.

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by RebeccaR
Typo

[assertives]

2 hours ago, SSE said:

I would think positive things like "I want to have a great husband and some kids someday" that that will come true? There are a lot of things you can't control and can't know. You can't control love. I could be barren or die tomorrow for example. How is thinking positive things than helpful in my case? I don't think just because I think positive about my wish for a little family that that wish will come true, isn't it? 

If and when you do go back to therapy and this is suggested to you, keep an open mind and actually try it. Don't dismiss it thinking it isn't going to work and that it's stupid. It works, but probably not how you expect it to. Your constant negative thoughts have kept you rooted in fear, doom and gloom and believe that you are not good or attractive enough. Now you know that isn't true because you had no issues scoring dates with guys who are essentially strangers. But still, it didn't stop you from believing you are not good or attractive enough nonetheless. Just like you THINK mm's life is perfect so it must be true to you. You THINK mm's wife's life is perfect so it must be true to you. But in reality, he was cheating on her when she's pregnant. Again, that just debunked your theory that her life is "perfect" because she married him.

2 hours ago, SSE said:

I don't think just because I think positive about my wish for a little family that that wish will come true, isn't it? 

Obviously, that's not how it works. There is no genie to grant wishes like that. It's more like, if you wished/or wanted something bad enough, you'd then take actionable steps to work towards it, whether it's focusing on healing and moving on or going on blind dates or online dating or joining a local hobby club, volunteer whatever. You cannot avoid putting in work and effort anyhow. Just like you want/wish for a place of your own, you do the work of saving money, planning and researching on neighborhoods, fees, etc etc. You don't sit there and think it's pointless because the apartment you had your eye on across the street is taken so you'll never find another apartment you liked as much as this right.

Going into whatever therapy with whatever therapist just to talk about MM and your pain on and on is just ventilating. Some amount of it can be cathartic no doubt, but at some point, it becomes excessive and add to that not being open-minded and frankly dismissive about the techniques your therapist tells you to try.. you are just wasting time and money. As with learning anything new, the beginning is going to be hard and feels unnatural. Just like the first time you learn to play an instrument for example. But do it enough, once you get the hang of it, it becomes second nature.

Lastly, something you mentioned that MM said caught my attention. You said he told you to give the ugly guys a chance too. Now, I don't know in what spirit he said that, but there's some truth to it though. Love can come in all shapes and sizes. So don't dismiss anyone just because you or people around you think he's "ugly". He may turn out to be a wonderful person and lover.

[SSE]

I base it on the feelings I have/had. I have/had the most romantic feelings for MM, not even for my ex-BF. Not for the other men I dated. And some of them I dated more than once. Those feelings also didn't dissapear with NC. And that's why I'm scared. I've never felt those feelings for anyone else and they also didn't go away after a year. I met so many different men... And still it's MM I seem to want. I know I must go out and date again, but based on the past, I have a feeling it will not be a success. I have this feeling that I still will want to be with MM. Is that so strange I'm thinking that? I have this idea like, I never have been successful in the past when it comes to love, why would that change now? I know, negative thinking, but that's the way I feel. 

2 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

And I don’t think you really love this guy. Butterflies are nice but they aren’t a signal of a meaningful relationship. And I guarantee that even if he divorced and the 2 of you married and he was somehow a faithful husband (ha!), the butterflies would go away at some point and you would feel dissatisfied.

Why do you think that? 

The therapy I took did help me in some way to release my fear and pain for a moment. To get it off my chest. But a day after I began to replay it over and over in my mind and the anxiety and pain were back. It's not the kind of therapy where you get homework or techniques that you should try, like CBT for example. 

MM said that because he didn't understand why a girl like me was single. He thought I was being too picky. That was not the case. I couldn't allow anyone else because I was in love with him. I didn't want anyone else, although I was "allowed" to date. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by SSE

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, SSE said:

MM said that because he didn't understand why a girl like me was single. He thought I was being too picky. 

Is it possible that you have not been picky enough? In settling for this affair...

[BTDT2012]

Until you love yourself, you can't really love anyone else. You say you want a husband and children. Pining over another woman's husband doesn't get you to that goal. Perhaps its not MM that you love, but what you think he represents.

[heartwhole2]

SSE, I do think that you "catastrophize," or assume the worst will happen. Often when we suggest something concrete to do, you push back and insist it won't work for you. So I thought . . . well what if we agree with you? What if we tell you, yes, the worst thing is going to happen to you in every case? It will require you to provide the answers to yourself that it probably won't be as bad as you say. Because every time we give you an idea or suggestion, you explain why it won't work and why the worst will happen.

You won't feel better when you have a husband or children. The details of our lives, apart from having our basic needs met, don't determine our happiness. People who win the lottery and people who lose an arm are just as happy (or not happy) as they were before the big change a year later. That's because it's our outlook, our coping skills, and our self-esteem that determines how we feel, not the who, what, or when of our lives. Once you address your anxious attachment issues, you will be happy whether or not you have a husband and children. And in that healthy place, you will naturally invite good things into your life. 

I realized recently that spending so much time on LS is affecting me negatively. I have been ruminating about my husband's affair, having anxious dreams, etc. So I took control. I did a guided meditation to help me unleash some strong feelings. I came up with others ways to spend my down time. I grounded myself in my reality today and not my reality 5 years ago. 

I have a mildly anxious child. She has a wonderful journal for kids to guide her through her emotions. She smells essential oils. She feels better when she lies down on the floor in her room and breathes deeply. She does meditations with me. She is learning how to handle her emotions and how to ground herself when she feels overwhelmed. You can do this too. Instead of explaining to us why that won't work, why don't you tell yourself, "What do I have to lose?" and try something new. There's an app called Youper that helps you with stuff like this. You can watch videos on YouTube that describe EFT (tapping). You can watch videos of a box expanding and contracting to deepen your breathing. You need some new tricks up your sleeve, but the only one who can make you learn them is you.

[SSE]

Sorry, to quick with posting. Post will follow. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by SSE

[SSE]

15 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

You won't feel better when you have a husband or children.

Why do I think I only will feel better when I have that? I really think that. Life felt better when I was in a relationship. It felt less anxious and I got my emotional needs met. Sometimes it feels like the only one who can stop this pain is MM. Sometimes it feels like being with him is the only way to stop this pain. I think I will be happy then. Because of the feeling he gave me. I crave that feeling so much. Because I see al my friends are so happy in their relationships and with their children.

 

15 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I realized recently that spending so much time on LS is affecting me negatively.

Agreed. I have the exact same thing. I don't read other threads anymore, too painful. I come here because I don't have any other help. Sometimes I feel so anxious that I need to get it off my chest. Tonight, I have an appointment with my therapist since a long time. I think it will be a heavy session. I didn't know you were a BS. And yet, you take your time to reply on my posts and try to help me... I don't know what to say. It really means much to me to get your opinion on my situation without judging me. However, if it's too painful for you, please think about yourself and stop commenting. 

I do have anxious attachment issues. I was so scared of losing MM that I took a lot of s***. I was the good girl that had no complaints. It wasn't the only thing that kept me in the affair, I also felt love for him, but fear of being alone for the rest of my life definitely played a role as well. I have the tendency to cross my own boundaries as long as other people are happy. So they will like me and in the case of romantic relationships won't leave me. The problem is MM took advantage of that for his own gratification. And still I would do anything for him. While he really doesn't deserve that. So maybe it is love I'm actually feeling for him? 

My ex-BF didn't want to break up with me. I was the one who took the decision. He said I was the best girlfriend he ever had (even despite the comments about my weight). I was sweet, funny, thoughtful, supported him and helped with the household. I was amazing, he said, too bad you can't see it... I ended it with him because of my lingering feelings for MM. I remember one time my ex-BF said to me "You must love me so much. You buy me presents, you help me and you even give me sex when you don't want to". And I was thinking "No, I don't love you so much, but I want to be a good girlfriend. You deserve that because you're good to me. But I'm also scared of being all alone again. But I'm also still in love with someone else who I can't have, but I try my best to move on and I try that with you because I must move on". 

I told my ex-BF before we split that I still had feelings for MM and that I didn't think it was fair towards him. But he didn't want to split. He wanted to give me some time because he was convinced those feelings would dissapear. I refused and we did split. The guilt I felt towards him was larger than my fear of being single again. I hope I made the right decision, becausen guess what, I'm scared! 

I have some question about therapy and positive thinking. EMDR would lessen the pain of my emotions, but it wouldn't tackle my anxiety issues. Can positive thinking or changing my way of thinking also help with the pain I feel? Can it also help change my feelings towards MM? Can it also tackle my anxiety issues? 

[RebeccaR]

I keep coming back to this thought that you would have a happy life with MM if he left his family and married you. You base this on the good feelings you had with him when he was attentive to you. Don’t you realize that you are carrying a fantasy version of him in your head, one which he rarely was? That’s why I say you don’t love him. You love the fantasy version which he would have to become (on a full time basis) in order to make you happy. Obviously he cannot do this. In a weird way, that’s an unfair expectation to have of him or anyone else.

 

Reading some of these threads, I am surprised how many women leave decent relationships (which may not be perfect) because of feelings for fantasy versions of other men. It’s not so much that the man is unattainable, but that the fantasy version she pines after doesn’t even exist.

[heartwhole2]

4 hours ago, SSE said:

Why do I think I only will feel better when I have that? I really think that. Life felt better when I was in a relationship. It felt less anxious and I got my emotional needs met. Sometimes it feels like the only one who can stop this pain is MM. Sometimes it feels like being with him is the only way to stop this pain. I think I will be happy then. Because of the feeling he gave me. I crave that feeling so much. Because I see al my friends are so happy in their relationships and with their children.

SSE, only you can answer that question. I can guess, but that's all it is. I think you are confusing the high of a dopamine hit with the peace and joy that comes from being a healthy person who loves herself. I think your upbringing did not make you feel secure and you are repeating toxic patterns from childhood because it's what you know. 

You've done it again . . . taken concrete steps that you can follow and then said, "Do you really think so?" and then veered off into why it's so hard and how you feel about things. The steps we have suggested are what you should do when you start to spiral. It takes about two months for a new behavior to become a habit so don't give up the second you don't feel a change. 

The only one who can stop this pain is you. Some married creep offering to use you for sex is not the person who is in charge of your happiness. Even if he was prince charming, the person in charge of how you feel will always be you.

[BaileyB]

36 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I keep coming back to this thought that you would have a happy life with MM if he left his family and married you. You base this on the good feelings you had with him when he was attentive to you. Don’t you realize that you are carrying a fantasy version of him. You love the fantasy version which he would have to become (on a full time basis) in order to make you happy. Obviously he cannot do this. In a weird way, that’s an unfair expectation to have of him or anyone else.

Not to mention the fact that she is placing the responsibility to maintain her own happiness on another person. Not only will that not work to bring you happiness long term, it’s not fair to do to another person. 

[Amethyst68]

I want to redirect you to an earlier post I made. 

You're stuck on this idea you have that MM was the only man who 'saw the real you'. I'm going to be frank with you, what he saw was someone easy to manipulate with a few nice words, maybe a present or two. In all the words you've written I don't even know if you spent time together as a couple, go for dinner, walks, to the beach etc or was it just hook ups for sex. Even then did he pay for nice hotels etc? This man got in your head and knew how to play you to get what he wanted while treating you like garbage. 

It wasn't you he saw, not you as a person just you as his next willing victim. I hate to use that word because you say you're almost 30 and you're just as responsible for the affair as he is.

BTW I completely believe his comment about ugly men. You're too caught up in surface looks. It shows in a lot of your comments, especially the ones you say your family make and that you make about your brother's partner being good looking. You'd never voluntarily pick an ugly partner because in your mind that would reinforce every comment they've ever made to you.

I'm not going to say you need to love yourself but you need to at least start accepting yourself for who you are. The love comes later. Trust me, I was always the larger one of my friends, lost a load of weight thought it would fix everything, guess what it didn't. All the problems were still there I was just dealing with with a smaller size pair of jeans on!

[SSE]

I had a heavy session with my therapist yesterday as expected. She said it's a good thing the physical ties between us are broken, but the ties he has in my heart are still there and were never gone. Also not during that year of NC. I kept feeling that love and kept longing to the feeling he gave me. I did not miss the hurtful comments and push-pull. To break the ties that lie in the heart, there are different options she said. Being angry, feeling disgust or actively thinking other thoughts. Those are things that break those internal ties. I don't feel angry or disgusted, I mainly feel sad and dissapointed. I cannot be forced to be angry or disgusted, so she suggested active thinking. For example, when I think I love him so much and I miss him so much, I could tell myself, but he's also someone that treated me like s*** for his own gratification. He lied a lot while he knew how I felt. That's not someone that needs to be missed. It sounds silly, she said, but if you train your brain like that, it actually works. But it also takes some time and dedication. I don't see how it will help with the pain I'm feeling though, because thinking those other thoughts are also painful. Someone I love so much used me for his own gratification, that hurts like hell. That's a thought I came up with after the session. How does it help to lessen the pain if the active thoughts you're thinking are also painful? 

I also told her about my thinking loops. I keep thinking the same things over and over again. Does he loves her? Is she better than me? Are they happy? Was everything a lie? Am I worth nothing? Questions where I don't know the answer to and which don't help me further in my healing. They actually don't matter, but I keep thinking them, for almost 4 years now. No wonder I feel miserable and anxious all the time. But I don't know how to stop those thoughts. Also the thoughts of my doomsday scenario. It doesn't help me to keep talking about those loops, it seems as I just don't get tired of them. I just don't seem to get tired of hurting myself over and over again. Also here, brain training could help, she said. When you think such a thought, realize you're in a loop and try actively change your thoughts to something else. My therapist will give me the contact info of a CBT therapist so I can try it out. However, she said, you must be aware that in CBT, there is no time to talk about your emotions, it's a very active therapy and I don't know if that's suitable for you, because you also need it to vent about your emotions. There she has a valid point as well... EMDR could be helpfull to lessen the intense pain you feel, but it won't help you with your way of thinking she also said. What are your thoughts? It seems like she feels that the therapy I'm taking now is the best for me, but I don't know. I do know it helps me to get some thoughts also off my chest, but I also keep looping. But if it's not possible to talk at all about your feelings in CBT... Maybe take some sessions of CBT to learn some tricks and then go back to my regular therapy? 

She also told me it was a good thing I was honest towards my ex-BF. If I hadn't refused to be a couple with him again, we would still be a couple, but it would be his decision to stay with you. I can let go of the guilt I still feel towards him. I also was thinking about the happy life I think I would have with MM. I know I would be really scared that he would dump me based on our history, after using me for some sex off course. There would also be 2 children in my life. I love children and I would take care of them, but the youngest child will always remind me to the fact that MM tried to get me to sleep with him again while his wife was pregnant. That child will always be a reminder of so much hurt for me and I don't want a constant reminder of hurt in my life. That's no way of living. 

When MM and I met, we always went for a walk first, then drinks/dinner and afterwards some sex. That's the way all of our dates went. We frequently split the bill, I didn't want him to pay for everything even though he's so wealthy. It always comes down to sex though, there was never a date without sex. Even now when we reconnected on the phone, it didn't take him long to ask questions about my sex life and telling me he has a boner. He himself is a very sexual man and the way he sees me is free sex. He also knows he can't talk right away about sex I guess. My therapist finds he treated me like an object, not a human being with feelings. That's the way she thinks he sees me, she said. That made me cry again. I think I cried during the entire session. The skin under my eyes feels raw now. 

MM is not a very good looking guy if I can believe my friends. He's a regular fellow actually. He's rich, so he wears expensive shirts and watches, but his hair and beard are messy, he wears sneakers all the time and he also has a tummy. Not such a fancy rich type guy at all. He once told me he actually wants to hide he's rich... But on the other hand, he brags about his new cars and expensive watches all the time.... Anyhow, it weren't his looks that made me fall for him, it was the constant attention and jokes. A whole new world for me back then...

When I dated, I wasn't picky at all. I dated with regular, average guys. I couldn't get the a date with the fancy ones, but that wasn't also my goal. I know I'm not that attractive myself, so I tried to date in my own league. I wasn't too picky at all in my opinion, but there had to be at least some attraction. I do think life will be better when I'm skinnier. I lost once 60 pounds in the past, and I could wear prettier clothes. I noticed men started to notice me and people told me I looked radiant. I felt a little bit better, but off course, my fears weren't gone. Didn't you feel at least a bit better when losing some weight? I also want to lose the weight for my health, not only to attract men. I want to do it for myself, so at least I don't have to feel bad about that part of myself anymore. 

I'm really scared. I don't want to pine for him for the rest of my life! I want to cut the internal ties so there can be room for someone else in my heart. Someone who does treat me right and doesn't use me for his own gratification. I want those ties with him gone. I've taken the steps for (other/additional) help and I'm willing to do the work. I want out of this hell I'm already living for 4 years. I want him out of my heart. But I'm so afraid this will take me also several years of my life. Several years of being single again. I don't want that. And sometimes I'm so afraid I will love him forever. I feel very intensely towards him. Can that even ever go away?? This is my anxiety talking and getting the upper hand. Can you trick your brain and heart into believing you don't love someone anymore? 

Yesterday, we got some bad news. A friend of my father died in a motorcycle accident. He was only 35. It makes you realize life is so short and unpredicatable. He also had some troubles of finding a suitable woman, but since a year he finally had his girl. And now he's gone. I could be dead tomorrow and the last thing on my mind would be pining thoughts over MM. Pining over someone that treated me as an object. Those would be my last thoughts and that makes me really sad. I so long for peace in my mind and happiness. I so long to be happy again. To feel something else than pain or sadness. To don't feel that anxious anymore. Just peace. 

[imperfectangel]

I’ve read through this whole post.

 

you have to be honest with yourself if you really want to end it I don’t think you do. I went round in circles many times with my mm, and it wasn’t until I’d actually had enough that I snapped and we no longer talk etc. I don’t want to talk to him why would I he treated me like s***.

 

why are you answering his calls? When I used to post on here everyone talked about blocking. It wasn’t for me but I really think that you should. If he calls you from an unknown number just hang up. You don’t have to speak to him.

Also I notice how you keep saying you don’t love other guys after one or two dates. No one falls in love that fast, of course you don’t love them, you don’t know them. You aren’t giving anyone else a chance.

you have to want it to end for nc to work and for the feelings to eventually change and fade. 

[SSE]

Too quick with my post

Edited June 9, 2020 by SSE

[SSE]

@imperfectangel I'm actually really glad you post on my thread. I've been meaning to start a topic here to ask other OW/OM how their lives went after they've permanently broken off their affair. Did they find peace/happiness again? Could they love again? Could they be in a relationship again? I was afraid to post it because I thought I wouldn't get much response. Maybe most OW/OM don't visit this forum anymore after the affair because they went on with their lives. Would you mind answering these questions? 

MM's contact info is deleted, but he isn't blocked. I'm quite sure he won't contact me anymore. He said he would respect my request for NC and I believe him. He also did it the previous time (except that text with New Year). I still cry about what happened every day. I want to feel happy again if that's possible. If I look at our affair, most of the time it was a very painful and anxious experience for me. Don't want that anymore in my life. But I do admit I miss him, or at least the fantasy he represents. 

This last couple of days I'm experiencing bad dreams. I dreamed I was attending their wedding party. They officially married but only had a small ceremony. I remember him saying he would like to throw a big party someday. Well, I was there at that party. Seeing the happy, perfect couple with their two children. Full of love and then there was me. Witnessing the whole thing and crying my eyes out. Last night, I dreamed I was turning 40. It seemed I was still single and childless. I had a magic mirrow that showed me MM's life. He seemed to live a happy life with her and the children. Quite opposite to me, I was still miserable. Horrible dreams that give me a lot of pain and anxiety. I compare myself a lot with them. Their life seems better in every way. 

I know that people who are single aren't losers. Or that they aren't less than people who are coupled up. But I know society sees us this way. As weird people. I know MM and a lot of other people see us this way. I already know he thinks he so much better than others because he's rich, but I imagine if he would contact me after a few years and would find out I was still single, he would definitely feel so much better than me. Like, see SSE can't get over me or she can't get anyone better than me while I have it all and she has nothing... He even once said that to me, as a joke... Hilarious. 

I long to have my own little family with a man I love. I'm really anxious of never finding that man. Hence why I still felt miserable at 40 in my dream. I know being single doesn't have to mean being unhappy, but it is to me if you don't want to be single and you want a family. I made an appointment at the fertility clinic. Maybe you guys think I'm overreacting, but I want to know what my options are. I don't want to have a child now, but I also know that I will regret it if I don't check my options. If I don't find that man, I will have a child on my own. My wish to become a mother someday is too big. I will regret it forever if I never become a mother, but honestly, I prefer to raise a child with a mother and a father. Dating isn't easy and at my age, a lot of decent men are starting their own family. Maybe all the good ones are already taken at this point, I don't know. 

I also feel pain because of this longing. I'm actually the last one in my group of friends who's single. Most of them have already children. I want that life as well. I know I have a lot of love to give. On the dating forum there's now an interesting thread about a woman my age who experiences the same feelings as I. She's 31, single and wants a family and thinks about settling down with the next decent guy she meets. It doesn't even have to be someone she's attracted to. I'm thinking about doing the same thing, but I don't know if it would make me happy down the road. I did it in someway with my ex-BF and it didn't last. Off course, I still had intense feelings for MM. I guess those feelings must fade out first before I can go any further. But, I don't know how long that will take and I don't want to be single for the next couple of years... 

I also wonder if I have a realistic image of relationships. Maybe I expect too much. I want someone to whom I'm physically attracted to and who I feel comfortable with. Who's faithful, honest and loyal. Someone decent. Maybe you can't have all of those things in one guy. I don't know. I know MM gave me the butterflies in the stomach feeling and that's really hard to compete with. It's a very addictive feeling. It's a feeling I would like to experience again someday. But I don't know if that's realistic. Maybe it's too much to ask. I know I need to let go of that feeling because it ties me to MM. But it's so f***ing addictive. To me, that feeling makes me say I love MM. 

I'm on a waiting list for CBT. I'm hopeful I can start with that therapy in a couple of weeks. I do wonder how it will help with the pain I'm feeling. The pain of the affair, but also the pain I experience of being single and the longing for my own little family. You can think as positive as you want, and be hopeful for the future, but as it would turn out that I would remain single and would have to have a child on my own, or worse, if I would be barren... I think the world would come crashing down on me. How can positive thinking help me then? You know what I think now? I think I would be thinking, how unfair, I have nothing of what I so long for and MM has it all... I'm scared this will be my future. Becoming a single, bitter lady who still will be jealous of MM, his wife and their life. 

[assertives]

I feel like you sound like you are in a better emotional state now than your previous posts. Whatever you are doing, keep at it it seems to be helpful for you.

One thing I wanted to point out is that you should see what you want in life seperate from what MM or others around you have. Whether it's money or a child or your own family. Don't use others as a yardstick, set your own goals, objectives and boundaries and then work towards it. What MM and his wife have in their lives is because they have been building towards it and adding towards it. Similarly, you need to add towards and build towards the kind of life you want. Comparison kills joy and contentment, and frankly adds nothing to your life. So get rid of that. If you want some kind of a role model to inspire you, perhaps find a better, more healthy and functional couple among your circle of friends and family. 

18 minutes ago, SSE said:

Their life seems better in every way. 

I mean.. he cheated on her when they were married and when she was pregnant. Unless that's something you can tolerate in your own relationships, her life isn't necessarily better in every way unless they are in an open marriage. 🤷

Lastly, you really should block him. Thinking he will respect your decision for him to leave you alone is just you keeping the door open for more of this bs someday. You know it.

 

[SSE]

I'm not doing anything actually, I think I realize I'm done with being so unhappy because of him. I'm already in pain and experience anxiety because I'm on my own, I don't need him to add more of that to my life. He would still leave me alone at the parking lot after we would meet. He would still just use me for sex. He would still reject me and say insensitive comments. He would still lie. I so long for a good love in my life, but he only gives me so much pain. It's time to move on. I don't know how, but staying like this will definitely make my doomsday scenario come true. I'm still very anxious 😢

I don't know their lives but from the outside it seems perfect. Wealthy and a family. Off course, you're right, he cheated on her during marriage and wanted to cheat on her during pregnancy. He didn't actually cheat because we didn't met. When he told me she messed with her birth control which resulted in the second child, I asked him why he stayed with her. He stated it was for the finances and the children. I don't know if I can believe him though, because I don't believe the story of the birth control either. However, I do know I would be heartbroken if I discovered my partner was cheating on me for some time, wanted to cheat on me during pregnancy and saying these things about our marriage after my back. But she doesn't know. I don't know if that's better. 

I know what's most important to me, having my own family. Getting rid of MM and these feelings is the first step towards that. I'm looking for my own place. But, I'm so afraid I will never find a suitable partner. Someone that doesn't do the things MM did. Someone who I find attractive. Someone that wants me as well. And then my dream of my own family will never come true. I would have a really hard time with that. It's something you just cannot control. I can have a roadmap for finding my love, but it doesn't guarantee me I will find my him. 

I think people compare automatically. I know I do it with my friends also. I feel like I'm so far behind them in life if I look at them. It does make me sad, because they have all the things I want in life as well, but I'm the only one that doesn't have it. It's a very painful feeling going to all the weddings and baby showers on your own when you long for that kind of happiness as well. How can you not compare then? It's right there in your face! 

I haven't blocked him because I don't want to have his number anymore. It would be saved in a list with blocked numbers and I don't want to have the temptation to contact him in a weak moment like I did earlier this year. He did leave me alone for a long period, I assume he will do it again. I mean, do they even come back after more than a year or so? Maybe they do, I mean this time it was me who came back after a year, but don't know if a MM would do that? I would assume they would have given it up by then. 

[Ha-ha]

I’ve never replied to any thread but your story stuck with me. Maybe because I am Asian and I understand completely what you meant with people looking down on single females, and that women over 30 are worthless.   I was like that.  But I realized:  I have to be myself and live my life  If I live as judged by my dad, and he dies and I suffer, what good does it do?  It changed my perspective and I ignored those toxic people.

I have followed your story since 2017 and read every single page. I remember your first post:  one of the senior members answered that, 'no dear, not all men are like that. '. That’s because you sounded so scared, so young, so lost.

But since then, despite pages of answers, three years later, you continued wasting time, refusing to accept that happiness comes from within.  My answer is the same as others:  change yourself. Ignore those toxic around you. Do you really want a self fulfilling prophecy when at 40, your MM, father, brother came and said, see?  SSE is indeed what I judge her to be?

Be happy and independent.  If you’re strong, people are not going to take advantage of you and you can grow thicker skin.  At this time, it seems that the obsession to marry and have kids are overwhelming  when you’re healthy, maybe you meet someone suitable, maybe you change your mind about family.  Who knows?  You cannot fathom this idea NOW because you are unhealthy and unhappy.  

I hope you can gain help this time from your therapy. I hope you give it a chance and be open minded.   I hope I can read your update where you said, I am happier and stronger. Good luck!

[Crazelnut]

Your view of "happy marriage" is so warped. They are legally attached and procreated. That absolutely does not mean they're happy. In fact, their marriage sounds miserable. He treats his wife like crap -- cheats on her, disrespects her, uses her for her money. How can you think that's a happy life? How is that wonderful? It's horrible. You wouldn't want to be in a marriage like that, would you?

And the children? He flat out said she tricked him into that, so clearly he didn't really want that child. How happy does THAT sound? 

Yes, you have an idealized view of marriage and children. It isn't the be all and end all. Look at all the divorces that happen in this world! People who have the things that you think equal happiness would actually rather split up than be unhappy in marriage.  Marriage and family can be wonderful. They can also be miserable. And key point -- being married won't automatically make you happy. That truly comes from within yourself.

Your mindset is going to keep you stuck. Please work on self esteem and self actualization with your therapist.

[BaileyB]

Please don’t bring a child into this world. You don’t need a partner to have a child. But, you do need to be able to support yourself, and you need to have good mental health, or it’s not fair to the child. You have a lot of work to do to get yourself together before you should even consider having a child. 

[SSE]

I have no intention of getting a child now, I know I'm not in a healthy place. I just want to know what my options are for in the future if I would remain single. I know this is also my fear talking, but it seems I want to be prepared if/when my doomsday scenario would come true. 

I honestly don't know if they have a happy marriage. Yes, indeed he cheated, but that doesn't automatically means he's unhappy. Could be he's happy, but just needed some extra sex. Very selfish, but it does not necessarily mean he's unhappy. He sure does love the money they have. It's true he's already saying for years he's not happy with her and that he wants to leave. He now said he didn't want the second child because their relationship will fail at some point. But on the other hand, he's still there with her. It can't be that bad if after years of complaining about her, you're still with her. You even (still) have sex with her to get a second child... I know it isn't easy to break off a marriage, but it's not that he has taken some steps in all these years I've known him. He just keeps complaining. I also know he lied to/kept things from me to get some sex... So honestly, I don't know if they have a happy marriage or not. All he has said to me could be one big lie to get sex. As I've read here on this forum, most MM are big, fat liars to get what they want. 

@Berlin thank you for replying to my post. Sometimes I dream of myself as a happy single woman. With no pain and anxiety anymore. But I also dream then I meet my Mr. Right and can start a family... Were you in a similar situation as I am in now? How did you get out of that situation? Also therapy? Are you (still) single and without children? Are you also my age? Are you genuinely happy now? If I'm honest, the thought of still being single at 40 gives me the kreeps. I'm terrified of that. I don't want to remain single for the rest of my life...

I'm "glad" you recognize the feeling of being a single female at 30 and people thinking there's something wrong with you. Indeed, toxic people. I can cut MM out of my life, but it's difficult with my dad. I do ignore his comments, but they hurt me so much that I cry when I'm alone... He's my dad, I cannot cut him off. I don't seek emotional support from him anymore because it results in offensive comments and I try to ignore him at home, but still, it's my dad. I just hope he's proud of me even if I don't have a partner. He always says he would be so happy if I would have a partner. Than life would be so much better for me. MM said the same thing. That life will be so much better if you have the right partner (he does cheat on his right partner...). I see my friends so happy coupled up. Not surprisingly I want a partner... 

[assertives]

I can totally relate to the feeling of being a single woman past the age of 30. I am Asian too and do get those pressure from relatives and my family about why I'm still single, and that automatically follows up with the thought that something must be wrong with me, too fat? too picky? not sociable enough? etc etc. I personally am childfree, so I'm not that bounded by time in a way a single woman who wants kids would be. I did spend alot of my time feeling less than and lonely about how everyone around me are having kid no. 2 while I'm still as unwanted as day zero. I still long for another soul to love, but as I aged, I've also kinda got really comfortable with my own company and being ok with being single. I will be turning 38 this month, and I'm still single, and only ever dated someone for a week. 

I used to dread and be afraid of dying alone, but have reached to a point of being able to plan ahead my end of life and power of attorney stuff. I guess in time to come, you'll just accept it as it is. In life, there are no guarantees. What helped me be less adverse to being single was actually due to my grandmother's own experience. She had 7 kids. In the last 10 years of her life, she was pretty much an invalid living in an assisted care facility due to 2 strokes. My grandfather died almost a decade ago from heart attack. When my grandmother passed away, there was no one around her. Not the nurse, not her husband, not her kids, not her grandkids. That kinda made me realised that marrying and having my own family is not an answer to loneliness. Because you can be just as lonely with a full family tree. And again, nothing is guaranteed in life. No one knows who is going to outlive who by alot.

Like I said in a previous post. Only you are going to be with you for the rest of your life. So learn to love, live and be happy with yourself. When the time is right and you meet someone special to you, or even not at all, you may just realise that whatever your fears are today no longer cripples you the way they used to.

I'm glad that your thoughts and posts honestly sound a little more coherent and healthier now. You to have abit more clarity and focus on the problems you are facing than just obsessing about your feelings for the MM. Sometimes working on feeling better is as simple as recognizing certain behaviours, cycles and thoughts are not working for you and wanting to stop. Seeking help is a good first step. So take one step at a time, a day at a time, a moment at a time. One day, you'll get to a healthier frame of mind without even realising it.

[Ha-ha]

I know this sounds easy after the fact but I got out by reducing contact with my dad until I can accept that he’s not going to change and I basically ignore him if he made those hurtful remarks. I didn’t have the luxury of therapy so I did a lot of journalling:  just poured my heart out and promised myself that I would take care of my little heart from pain by never letting anyone have such power over me. If I got affected, I told myself these people cannot rule over me. I must get over it or else my heart cannot take the constant rejections or humiliation. Of course it sound easy now and i still feel hurt sometimes but it does get easier.   My dad and sometime mom are the kind who can tell us on the face that fat people don’t get married  and must be slim and demure to be desired.

 About a year after I decided to be independent and alone, I met my current husband. Until then, I never even held someone's hand, let alone kiss or have sex.  Guys ignored me because I had pimply face and was deemed to be harsh and fierce for a girl.  He didn’t care. I actually rejected his wish to be together because I was afraid he would be like any other but he was so sincere in his wish to be with me and I feel truly myself with him. We've been married for 19 years.   I am mid 40s now.

Just before I met him, I thought of adopting a child. In my warped mind, if I were to be alone, let’s share this love with a child who also needs it. I live in a society that prizes children above anything and women are not complete without being a mother. But I realized in my case, it was just society pressure. We don’t have kids now (mutual decisions) and we are happy. Our marriage suffers the usual up and downs but I am truly happy to share my life with this person.  But I also know that if we are to separate, or if he dies, I would also be more than happy to be alone .

I know...  others' stories just seem glowing and easy but please trust me when I said I truly feel your fear and sadness. i hope you know that this can be overcome. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Berlin

[SSE]

Thanks @assertivesand @Berlinfor your comments! I hope that one day I will be such a strong woman as you are! I think it will take a while before I get there though, but thanks a lot for your support. Even though you're total stangers, you get me. That means a lot because I'm the only single one in my environment. Thanks again ❤️

I just hate it when people think single women are losers. That something is wrong with us. Or single people in general. My dad is one of those people, but also MM is. I remember him saying about a single colleague in his fifties that he was a pathetic loser. He hadn't had sex in ages, probably dust would come out of his penis when he would come, haha. Later on, I learned from that same colleague that he has been betrayed so bad in the past that he's too scared to have a relationship again. He prefers to be single, but off course that's not something you easily tell people. I hate it when people/society judges us this way. Makes me wonder if MM thought I am pathetic as well... I am sure if MM would contact me again over a few years and he would find out I'm still single, he would feelvery good about himself. He's the man that has it all! 

My last text to MM was that I wish him the best. I wanted to close the chapter on a friendly note. I didn't get a text back wishing me the same. However, he always claimed we were such good friends. Don't you wish your good friend the best? It hurt I didn't even get a friendly text back. If I'm honest, I do not wish MM the best. I don't know if I may say that, but I wish him s***. I don't wish him dead, but something like chronic diarrhea or erectile dysfunction. I can't help it, I'm not a resentful person, not even towards my bullies in high school, but towards MM... I do not wish him well. I hope there comes a time where I don't think about him at all. Unfortunately, he's still in my mind, every day.