Why do average men have a lower value on online dating sites?

[some_username1]

Well it's not something I've brought up on here before but I saw it mentioned and I don't want to sound like that's all I've going for me. I've average looks IMO but I've been gifted in other departments. I had a fwb back in the winter who was in her 40's and she had not seen bigger. Same as the most recent one who was 31.

 

I've had 2 dozen women wanting potential fwb/hookups chatting with me. I've a phone full of dirty pictures they sent me. In return I'd send them one back. The answer they give is usually the same "holy f**k". These are women often divorced looking for a bit of fun etc, given I'm also ripped I thought I'd be what they wanted. But out of all these potential hookups and possible fwb one one i actually met. Like 1 out of twenty odd.

 

Then there was a girl I dated seriously. After date 2 texting got very sexual, and I joked that she wouldn't be disappointed when the time came. On date 4 I landed in her bed, it was the wrong time of the month so we never had sex but we fooled around and when I got naked and she saw how in shape I was and what else I had to offer she was like "I've died and gone to heaven". After that night she was texting saying how she could not wait till next time. When I went to confirm our plans the night before date 5 I got told to F off basically.

 

This boggled my mind because not only were we sexually compatable we had a good laugh together.

 

So apart from 2fwb who loved it being big, hasn't really helped me, even to get hookups or something casual.

 

Just to be clear I don't send random d pics to women online. Only if we have been chatting for a while and that's the way the chat has gone and I ask first.

 

So my mind boggles. Now I will probably get savaged for this post lol

 

So for anything longer lasting than a one night stand women want more than a big dick and a ripped physique? I'm sure most men will find that encouraging, so now we just need to figure out what the definition of "more" actually is...how difficult can that be?

[preraph]

It's a tie. Both are picky in different ways. But a lot of men will go as far below their preferences as they need to to get sex, where usually women will not because sex isn't their main goal and they have to be attracted to them to want sex.

[Foxhall]

Truth.

 

Fact is, pretty much all people are degrees of average. There are a few who are blessed with looks, charisma and humility, but they are very rare indeed. The rest are average guys who achieve success in life and love thanks to their self belief.

 

 

Another possible type- have looks, charisma, humility, but still lack in self belief:)

[basil67]

I can't say that I've ever met someone who was truly charismatic and who also lacked self belief.

[an0nym0us123]

So for anything longer lasting than a one night stand women want more than a big dick and a ripped physique? I'm sure most men will find that encouraging, so now we just need to figure out what the definition of "more" actually is...how difficult can that be?

 

It should definitely be encouraging, it's not even worth anything trying to get something casual, like its worth zero!

 

The girl I was on 4 dates with was the first in a year I felt something with. I was complimented by her several times on how good my company was, but I still lost.

 

But I think I know the answer, 10/10 facial aesthetics is what's needed, nothing else counts. Don't have this you will just get jerked around

[Foxhall]

I can't say that I've ever met someone who was truly charismatic and who also lacked self belief.

 

 

Yes I imagine what you say here is correct,

 

the post interests me, it came up in conversation for me this week,

 

a lady I met only a few weeks ago finds me shy but also charismatic which is perhaps an unlikely combination,

 

can be charismatic maybe but only with certain people.

[elaine567]

a lady I met only a few weeks ago finds me shy but also charismatic which is perhaps an unlikely combination,

can be charismatic maybe but only with certain people.

 

One can be shy but have a core of steel, with great self belief.

Shy people can be charismatic, as you say, in the right situations.

Shy does not equate to weak, boring and feckless.

[Veronica73]

I don’t get why there are so many guys on here (maybe there aren’t that many but it’s that they repeatedly post with the same complaints) that say you have to be really good-looking to get an average girl. I look around and see girls with average looking guys all. the. time. Most people I know are in a couple, and these are normal, average-looking people.

[elaine567]

I very very rarely ever see a very good looking man IRL, most guys are "average" and most guys have gfs/wives/partners and kids aplenty.

Yet if I were to believe what is written on here, then most of these guys should be sitting at home crying into their coffee unable to find anyone.

 

Truth is, truly average guys have obviously no problem dating and finding mates.

[ZA Dater]

I very very rarely ever see a very good looking man IRL, most guys are "average" and most guys have gfs/wives/partners and kids aplenty.

Yet if I were to believe what is written on here, then most of these guys should be sitting at home crying into their coffee unable to find anyone.

 

Truth is, truly average guys have obviously no problem dating and finding mates.

 

I accept that BUT how many settled for that they could get versus what they actually wanted?

 

I think the value on dating sites is hard to define, one the face of it I would think good pictures with diverse hobbies would give one greater value but that's not really the case. Some say being motivated gives value, not sure that's the case in reality.

 

The key to value is to find someone who values the same way as you do. Perhaps to find the universal values people actually want then construct yourself around those values, irrespective of how contrived that may be.

[PRW]

.....you cannot say they ALL lack social skills.

 

Yes. I can say that. It is demonstrated daily here on LS. Then LS isn't the only place I do this and the other places are even worse. Then I also do face-to-face in person stuff too, and I see the same thing there. Then OLD by it's very nature is going to be worse than those places.

 

Perhaps the problem are unreasonable demands by women, demands cultivated by Western media and their own rather warped sense of what MEN and WOMEN should be.

There is some truth to that but it doesn't come from the Media. It comes from Hypergamy and Biology. While the media just "markets" to the Hypergamy and selfishness in people that already pre-exists. Now if by cultivated you mean "enhanced" and feed into, then yes, you would have a point there.

[ZA Dater]

There is some truth to that but it doesn't come from the Media. It comes from Hypergamy and Biology. While the media just "markets" to the Hypergamy and selfishness in people that already pre-exists. Now if by cultivated you mean "enhanced" and feed into, then yes, you would have a point there.

 

The issue with OLD is one of consumerism, a new date is swipe away so in theory people don't need to out to actually meet people BUT when you try do this the looks you get are such that, well in my experience at least its next to impossible.

 

I think we need to look at who actually "wins" perhaps the top 10% do but the rest are much worse off.

 

I once brought up OLD on a date and it was very revealing, she had lots of prospects I was just the one who was available that particular evening. Says it all really.

[PRW]

I very very rarely ever see a very good looking man IRL,

Ok,....just because I have not been to your city yet,....be patient

 

most guys are "average" and most guys have gfs/wives/partners and kids aplenty.

If they are average then their wives are probably average or maybe even a little less than the guy is. Hypergamy is a relative thing. Maybe they were just fine with that and maybe they just "settled",...there is no way you will ever know. They also may have the social skills to over come their lack of attractiveness. Although looks are important for a guy to have it is not so much as it is with women,...for the guy it is his behavor that "keeps" the woman,...looks only got him noticed and initiate the process. Of course the more vain and shallow the woman is that he is chasing, the more important his looks become.

 

Yet if I were to believe what is written on here, then most of these guys should be sitting at home crying into their coffee unable to find anyone.

If they get divorced or dumped,...that is exactly what they will be doing. The guys that have the hardest time are the ones in their mid to late 40's that just found themselves divorced after 15-20 years of marriage (or shacking up , or whatever). They lost the dating and social skills they need due to lack of practice when they weren't single and combine that with the drastic changes in the dating landscape in the last 10-20 years,....and they end up almost helpless.

 

Truth is, truly average guys have obviously no problem dating and finding mates.

They wouldn't if the 80/20 Rule didn't exist. It has just been the last 20 or so years that it has really taken its full effect. The deregulation of the sexual marketplace began in the 60's & 70's. This removed the societal checks and balances on Hypergamy allowing it to go out of control,...which resulted in the phenomenon known as the 80/20 Rule that hit in the late 90's and is in full force today. It is the "slow boiling of the frog" that began in the 60's and now we are "cooked".

[mr_ybor]

I don’t get why there are so many guys on here (maybe there aren’t that many but it’s that they repeatedly post with the same complaints) that say you have to be really good-looking to get an average girl. I look around and see girls with average looking guys all. the. time. Most people I know are in a couple, and these are normal, average-looking people.

I've spent a sum total zero time on this thread, so pardon if I'm not mired in the gist of things, but as a guy who considers himself somewhat (maybe a smidge ) better than average (perhaps... some women sure seem to think so, and the occasional guy, LOL... a 5.2 tops, haha!), when trying to get anything to work on online dating, it's REALLY, REALLY hard for a lot of us, no matter our sitch. Like, my profile might as well not exist so far as I can tell. I have some guy friends who are far from basement dwelling monsters who can echo the same sentiment.

 

I've got the book Dataclysm by Christian Rudder, and if I recall correctly, the number of unsolicited messages the average guy gets is 1/6th of what the average women get. Back when you could open message, I'd be surprised if I got one message for every 500 I sent out... if that... no hyperbole. When you shore up the numbers like that, you start to figure you've got to me some god amongst mortals to have any chance of ever meeting with someone. Since I've been back on a couple of sites here (discounting scammers), I've had absolutely no one match with me, and no messages replied to. I don't condone any excessive woe-is-me moaning about things, but I can absolutely see where some guys are coming from. It's frustrating. People are allowed to be frustrated, IMHO.

 

I very very rarely ever see a very good looking man IRL, most guys are "average" and most guys have gfs/wives/partners and kids aplenty.

Yet if I were to believe what is written on here, then most of these guys should be sitting at home crying into their coffee unable to find anyone. Truth is, truly average guys have obviously no problem dating and finding mates.

I don't have a a coffee table. I cry on top of the fridge.

 

But you may have well made the exact point here: Most average guys are married/GF'd up, with kids aplenty... which doesn't exactly leave their wives available, now does it? Average guys cornered all the average girls, perhaps? I know I sure as [expletive] ain't tripping over eligible ones left-and-right.

Edited August 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

I accept that BUT how many settled for that they could get versus what they actually wanted?

 

OK but one either can live in a fantasy life where anything is possible or live in reality.

I may only want to buy and eat top class large juicy sweet oranges, but if I can only procure lower class, smaller, drier, less sweet oranges, I either give up eating oranges or learn to love the ones I can get.

 

All very well for anyone to moan about settling, but they tend to forget their own "value", which is usually pretty close to the person's "value" they supposedly "settled" with.

 

Real life isn't the movies.

[elaine567]

ok,....just because i have not been to your city yet,....be patient

I wait in anticipation...

[PRW]

I think we need to look at who actually "wins" perhaps the top 10% do but the rest are much worse off.

It is the top 20%, but you got the idea.

 

I once brought up OLD on a date and it was very revealing, she had lots of prospects I was just the one who was available that particular evening. Says it all really.

I was sitting with a "hot chick" last night who thinks OLD is great and wonderful because she only has seen it from the woman's perspective, from a woman with the looks she has which let's just call stunning.

 

Below is a quote from a guy who posted this in another location (I'm keeping him anonymous). He did an experiment with OLD. I wouldn't say it is completely scientific,...but I do think he did a pretty good job with his research...

 

My 4 year experience with dating apps as a guy

 

I started using dating apps 4 years ago when I was eighteen and I've been using them off and on ever since. I've never met anyone from them. My best experience on the apps was swapping nudes with this random woman. I feel like I should've quit year one but I believe the ease of them all and the simple fact that the swipe game is addictive kept bringing me back. I'll talk about Tinder because thats what I used the most and all of them are really the same.

 

I've done experiments with tinder. I created a woman's profile once and was really blown away at how opposite the experience was. Every swipe right was a match. I had a hundred almost instantly. It revealed to me that women's experience on tinder is completely different than a guy's. Women have a variety of men to choose from while men have a few that either don't respond or stop responding after a few messages.

 

And from the online research I've done on tinder it seems like women are mostly oblivious to this fact. I've read a lot of posts by different women who offer seemingly guaranteed advice on the subject. While there's a man in the same comment section ranting about his own personal experience. I'm not saying a guys experience is more truthful but what I am saying is that in this situation if you're a man you may not want to rely on the experience of a woman in this situation due to the experience being so different. It's almost like living rich vs living poor, why would you rely on the experience of someone who lives way up there.

 

That's if you're an average man. I did another experiment with a male model, not really a model he just had alot of followers on Instagram, and holy **** that was also an eye opener. Within an hour I had a date. The woman was asking me for the when and where. The funniest/saddest thing was that I wasnt even trying. The bio was extremely average. The conversation was extremely low effort on my part. It made me realize the types of men that thrive on tinder and how much photos really matter.

 

Another app I want to mention is bumble. It's even worse. It made me realize how much men are expected to initiate the conversation. That doesn't mean women wouldn't talk to me. Sometimes I would get that message after a bumble match but, like conversation on tinder, they too would fade away.

 

So unless you're a woman or a photogenic guy who has a decent amount of good pictures of you out and about Tinder is just a waste of time. This seems to be the same experience my friends have with the app. I haven't met anyone who's gone on a date from a dating app except a few women. My friends have told me of friends who have but even that's rare.

 

The best thing you can do as a guy is to meet women in real life situations. Straight up. Go to clubs, bars and local events. I'm glad to say that in the last four years I've gone on dates and gotten laid a few times, but none of them have been from girls I've met online. If you really put yourself out there in real life you should find someone.

 

Also there's alot of bots, cam girls, straight up prostitutes and social media influencers on tinder. I'd say that's almost half of the tinderverse. Also tinder has a huge incentive for you to not get into a real relationship. For you to keep swiping and spending money on their premium service. At best it's fun for someone who's bored, at worst it's disgusting.

 

TLDR: My conclusion is for male models and women, dating is still hard but dating apps give you more opportunities. While average men should put their effort into meeting someone in person and forgo the dating app scene.

[ZA Dater]

It is the top 20%, but you got the idea.

 

I was sitting with a "hot chick" last night who thinks OLD is great and wonderful because she only has seen it from the woman's perspective, from a woman with the looks she has which let's just call stunning.

 

Below is a quote from a guy who posted this in another location (I'm keeping him anonymous). He did an experiment with OLD. I wouldn't say it is completely scientific,...but I do think he did a pretty good job with his research...

 

I have done exactly the same experiment and had exactly the same experience he had, the one difference was I actually chatted to two and built up some conversation. This in mind I went to meet them to see really if looks were the be all and end all, they were but I have a thick skin so I knew I was going to be rejected. But I did make sure I got some subtle barb into the conversation.

 

Women are the first to moan men only value them on looks but the reality they aren't any different.

[ZA Dater]

OK but one either can live in a fantasy life where anything is possible or live in reality.

I may only want to buy and eat top class large juicy sweet oranges, but if I can only procure lower class, smaller, drier, less sweet oranges, I either give up eating oranges or learn to love the ones I can get.

 

All very well for anyone to moan about settling, but they tend to forget their own "value", which is usually pretty close to the person's "value" they supposedly "settled" with.

 

Real life isn't the movies.

 

Luckily SA produces great oranges so I don't really have this problem.

 

I disagree with the rest, you can create any reality you want, you can believe anything you want but the reality if you want one specific thing very little is going to suffice but something close to what you want.

 

The bottom line is you cannot let other assign a value to you because when you do then you may as well just give up on life. If you don't value yourself then why bother doing anything. I refuse to engage with apathetic people because I am not apathetic and yes I could teach an apathetic person she would need to offer me something I value.

[mr_ybor]

OK but one either can live in a fantasy life where anything is possible or live in reality.

I may only want to buy and eat top class large juicy sweet oranges, but if I can only procure lower class, smaller, drier, less sweet oranges, I either give up eating oranges or learn to love the ones I can get.

 

All very well for anyone to moan about settling, but they tend to forget their own "value", which is usually pretty close to the person's "value" they supposedly "settled" with.

 

Yikes, that's a pessimistic way of looking at realtionships, IMHO. I mean, I've had relationships not work out for compatibility issues before and I've always just chalked it up not wanting the same things or meshing in ways that were important to one or another (I can't say I've ever had a breakup over petty stuff). But never have I thought that anyone involved were of less "value" than each other, or that we "deserved" each other despite the things that we weren't happy with because we were equally second-rate or third-rate, or however you're quantifying this. That just sounds unhealthy.

 

Like, I don't look back at any of my exes like they're not valuable people, small oranges or something like that. Don't stay in relationships where someone's (or both parties) aren't genuinely happy with each other. Eventually, there might be kids, and that doesn't need to be brought down on them if it can be avoided... granted sometimes, it can't depending on timing... but you know, do your best.

 

BTW, super sorry if I sound contentious. You're entitled to your outlook, Elaine. The whole analogy is just alien to me, I guess... and I'm grumpy. I'm having a bad week. Just got over a nasty cold, and some scumbag scammer bummed me out first thing this morning with a bizarrely on-point profile this morning on OkCupid. Seemed legit as it was a lot like the girls I've dated in the past (not the usual barbie bimbos scammers roll with). The P.O.S. was using some poor girl from Canada's IG photos. So many garbage people out there.

[PRW]

This in mind I went to meet them to see really if looks were the be all and end all.

You got rejected because you lied to them and they saw that as soon as they met you and you didn't match the picture. So you "ask for it". There was no other possible way it could turn out.

 

The other guy didn't go meet them after giving a fake pic.

[5x5]

Below is a quote from a guy who posted this in another location.

 

Yawn...

 

I have a 19 year old son, who is a very skinny 5'6", broke, full-time 1st year university student, who doesn't have a job, doesn't have a car and who lives at home with his parents (my wife and I). Yet he seems to have no trouble getting ongoing girlfriends (or dumping them), plus getting dates in person and online.

 

It really isn't that hard for most people.

[PRW]

they tend to forget their own "value", which is usually pretty close to the person's "value" they supposedly "settled" with.

This is one of the core elements of the 80/20 Rule I had mentioned. Google the term of watch some of the YouTube videos on it.

 

Society says "You can have it all",...and that morphed into "You deserve it all". So the women are chasing the top 20% of men. So the top 20% of men get all of the women (since most of them will screw anything). This results in 80% (100%-20% = 80%) of the women end up losing out and becoming jaded and used, while 80% of the guys get nothing.

 

I may not be laying it out perfectly in my explanation, but you should search for it,...it is an interesting study and helps the current world make a little more sense.

[mr_ybor]

I have a 19 year old son, who is a very skinny 5'6", broke, full-time 1st year university student, who doesn't have a job, doesn't have a car and who lives at home with his parents (my wife and I). Yet he seems to have no trouble getting ongoing girlfriends (or dumping them), plus getting dates in person and online.

Yeah. I also did pretty well for myself dating wise when I was 19, very skinny, 5'9", broke, 1st year college student (not even Uni), had no job, and lived home with my mom.

 

What's that got to do with me now? :-|

Edited August 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PRW]

Yawn...

Yawn...

 

Yes, getting dates with "schoolgirls" who are very skinny 5'6", broke, university students, who don't have a job, don't have a car, who lives at home with her parents, don't know which way is up, and who's goal in life is getting the "cute guy" to "talk" to them.

Edited August 30, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator