OMFG! Did I ever dodge a nuclear bomb!

[pepperbird]

 

 

I think there is a tendency to minimise the harm bad marriages do to women.

 

 

And I think there's too much of a tendency to excuse people's crap behavior.

 

Look, anyone who has been married for a number of years will ell you that they all go through ups and downs. That's normal. It's sad, but some are more bad than good.

 

If a wife is feeling bad and lonely in her marriage, she always has other choices but to cheat. People don't cheat because of what others do, they cheat because there is something in their head that allows them to do it.

 

I'm a woman, and I do NOT appreciate being female used as an excuse for hurting others. Women who cheat don't do so because they are women. They cheat because they want to.

[PhoenixRising8]

Women who cheat don't do so because they are women. They cheat because they want to.

 

You are correct. I wanted to cheat. I justified it to myself because he had cheated on me before we were married. After all, what's good for the goose... I wondered if he did it again because a few years earlier I found a pair of undies in the laundry that weren't mine or my daughter's. He justified it by saying one of his teammates must have planted it in his hockey bag as a joke. As if ... I justified it because I couldn't leave an old man with multiple disabilities. I couldn't do it because of finances. I'd have to support him anyway. I thought if I could fill the void and prop up my marriage I could continue. In the end it came down to I just didn't have the guts to be alone and lower my standard of living. Everyone thought we had a good marriage so I would look like the bad guy.

 

But increasingly the marriage became worse. It wasn't just the neglect. That I probably could have managed. It was his escalating abusive behaviour no one saw. He presented a very loving and attentive persona in front of people. His tantrums and narcissistic behaviour got worse the older he got. What I got from him, and excused as occasional verbal abuse became much more frequent and pronounced. The affair was revenge. A big f#%* you to him and the marriage. In the end and in short order, I realized I couldn't cheat on him long term so I left him. The affair was the push I needed and that part of it I don't regret in the least.

[PhoenixRising8]

He might want the fun of an affair and the admiration of another woman, but grumbles about marriage do not necessarily mean he would want to give up on it. In his mind, he might have nothing 'to sort out' about his marriage.

 

You did the right thing getting out of his fantasy world.

 

Truth right there. I do still believe he in his heart of hearts wanted to leave because of the multiple conversations and texts to BS and kids that I personally heard and saw where he said he was done with the marriage and didn't love her. But in the end he didn't leave for whatever reason. If neglect was the problem, it isn't any longer as I have seen evidence of BS really trying to reverse the tide, to no avail. I had said to him many times that if he only placed half the effort, energy and attention to his marriage as he did to the affair, his life could be so much better. But he hasn't. With me out of the picture he could be making an effort to repair his marriage but he isn't as evidenced by his reappearance on AM. If he wasn't before, he is now nothing more than a cake eater. I'd be willing to bet if I hadn't spewed out my diatribe of hate in the end, he would be sniffing around me and not back on AM.

 

Let that be a lesson to anyone who doesn't want to be mean in the end. Trying to be nice will just encourage the cycle to continue. When he gets the itch he will be back and you risk getting sucked back in. Tell him what you really think of him and he likely won't. Then you won't be in a position of temptation. And you'll spare yourself so much grief and angst.

Edited September 1, 2019 by LilKatKat

[S2B]

Of course he’s on AM... those who cheat - cheat. He enjoys fooling his wife and needs another victim to do that.

 

Many cheating MM will never divorce - and they know their wife isn’t leaving them no matter what - so they are always searching for someone to use (OW).

 

He will find another OW - many MM have choices waiting in the wings - and maybe he did (or he thought you might eventually beg him to come back) - but maybe it didn’t work out - so he went back on AM.

 

I vote for sending his wife the profile picture from AM - she deserves to know - but send it from the public library computer so there’s no trail of who sent it.

 

He won’t change. He just always needs to ego stroke of knowing he has an OW and his wife. He uses women and harms them so he feels better.

 

In my world that’s called a perpetrator.

[Timshel]

A predator @S2B?

 

I want to give agency to women. LilKatKat is giving agency to herself and that earns respect.

When a person humbles themselves, Grace pours in.

 

 

Good on you LilKatKat.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Some women throw themselves into their kids, into work and their career, into hobbies, into volunteering, into causes and politics, into friends , colleagues and neighbours, into pets... anything to fill the void and get some interest, love and attention into their lives.

Some women also go down darker paths, depression, alcoholism and addiction...

Some women have affairs...You were in a bad marriage and in a bad way, you sought a solution, it was not a good solution,but you survived.

 

And I think there's too much of a tendency to excuse people's crap behavior.....

 

I'm a woman, and I do NOT appreciate being female used as an excuse for hurting others. Women who cheat don't do so because they are women. They cheat because they want to.

 

 

I didn't get from elaine's post that she was excusing bad behavior or using being female as an excuse for hurting others.

 

IMO, she simply expressed various scenarios of coping mechanisms women in bad marriages may resort to.

 

Telling OP not to beat herself up is good advice, IMO. Gain comes by learning, not beating oneself up. And seems to me OP has learned/continues to learn as she processes her situation.

Edited September 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PhoenixRising8]

 

I vote for sending his wife the profile picture from AM - she deserves to know - but send it from the public library computer so there’s no trail of who sent it.

 

 

You have no idea how tempting that is. I've had several scenarios play out in my mind of what I can do with this I'm just not sure it's worth it. But ohhh the revenge on him would be delicious and so sweet ?

[Artdeco]

Dude - you do not need to take that personally or whatever ..... he just is sex-deprived probably and hence looking for something on the side on a website. I think that has ZERO to do with anything ..... esp with you, or his W, or his kids ...... seriously ——- don’t over-interpret!!!

 

I don’t see the nuclear bomb here at all.....

[PhoenixRising8]

Dude - you do not need to take that personally or whatever ..... he just is sex-deprived probably and hence looking for something on the side on a website. I think that has ZERO to do with anything ..... esp with you, or his W, or his kids ...... seriously ——- don’t over-interpret!!!

 

I don’t see the nuclear bomb here at all.....

 

The nuclear bomb was in reference to had I ended up with him. I was using nuclear bomb as an exaggerated form of dodging a bullet lol.

 

What he does is what he does. I'm not the one married to him or in a relationship with him.

[Starswillshine]

Kat- good for you! I'm glad to see you are getting more and more clarity of the situation. And I also want to say, I understand the need to check in. I am divorced and happily moved on to something better, but curiosity still gets the cat sometimes, and I check on my xWH and what his xOW is doing as well. In some conversations with the OW in more recent times, it helped both of us to realize just how shady a character the man is. I have zero desire to go back, but sometimes even more clarity helps heal wounds. It is impossible for you to be over it so quickly; you still have wounds. Some people move on best by just shutting the door and never thinking of it again. For them, that signifies that they have moved on. Some others (like you and myself), we search for more clarity to make sense of it all. Of course, it will never make full sense as we are not these people, but you still search until you get to the conclusion you did in the OP.

 

I want to add on to what someone else said about cheating men might not be unhappy. I think in some cases, they do not want the marriage to be better. They want it as it is, it is happy enough, but it could be much better. However, if it gets much better, then they do not have an excuse to do as they do (cheat). I think it was like this with xWH. He would gripe about things, and I would make a full force effort to do what I could to do my part, he wouldn't do the same. Then 6 months later, it was the same complaint. When his affairs came out, he basically said the exact same things he always told me. When I pointed out a list of all the things I have done to make it better, when I threw my journal at him with highlighted parts... he had to accept that he was the problem. But making our marriage amazing (and it really could have been, we still had a pretty great marriage), would have meant he couldn't throw these excuses in his face when DDay came around. It all made sense in his mind.

[Zona]

I'm a woman, and I do NOT appreciate being female used as an excuse for hurting others. Women ... cheat because they want to.

 

I agree that making excuses for cheating is never good.

 

As for women in bad marriages, there is also the aspect of expectations. I think a lot of women have unrealistic expectations of their spouse. It's not just lack of attention and romance, it's also built up resentment over time because of things like a huge imbalance in effort put into raising the kids, chores, housework, or whatever. Also for some women, sex becomes a chore because hubby never does anything to keep things exciting, but rather sees sex as just 5 minutes to "relieve the pressure" so to speak. These things are what open the door to affairs, especially now that they are less frowned upon in our society, and even encouraged by some. Regardless, at the end of the day, cheating is a choice with often very bad consequences.

 

I'm still smarting over some articles I have read lately. One cited several surveys that show among millennials, women are now cheating more than men (MM have more than 1 MOW in a lot of cases). The other claimed that when they did face to face interviews, or other surveys where the woman could be identified, about 15% admitted to cheating. When they did surveys where anonymity was 100% guaranteed, 3 or 4 times as many admitted to being unfaithful, especially when deep EA's were included. Based on this and my WW's PA and later EA, marriage has certainly lost it's luster for me. That's not to say there aren't good women out there because they are. I just don't trust myself to find them.

[PhoenixRising8]

... marriage has certainly lost it's luster for me. That's not to say there aren't good women out there because they are. I just don't trust myself to find them.

 

I'm pretty sure many women feel the same way about men and themselves and I happen to be one of them.

[pepperbird]

That's not to say there aren't good women out there because they are. I just don't trust myself to find them.

 

I hope this isn't a thread jack, as my response can apply to anyone.

 

Cheating doesn't automatically make someone a bad person, but it is a real d@ck move.

 

 

I think the key to to really know yourself, know what you want and also what your boundaries are. Know what you will and won't accept in a relationship,

and stick to that.

 

Most importantly, have enough confidence in yourself that you can either put int he work to make changes or walk away if your relationship isn't meeting your needs. That's often easier said than done though.

[PhoenixRising8]

When I pointed out a list of all the things I have done to make it better, when I threw my journal at him with highlighted parts... he had to accept that he was the problem. But making our marriage amazing (and it really could have been, we still had a pretty great marriage), would have meant he couldn't throw these excuses in his face when DDay came around. It all made sense in his mind.

 

Thank you for understanding starswillshine. When I say I check, I get bashed and told I'm still obsessed. Several posts from this thread were removed for that reason - I guess someone reported them. Conventional wisdom on these things doesn't work for everyone. It is possible to go against the grain and still have a positive outcome. It all depends on what you need for yourself in order to move on. I was never one to just accept that something is without the explanation behind it so need to understand in order to learn from it and not make the same mistake again.

 

I bolded a sentence because it really was an ah-ha moment for me. I mentioned upthread that his wife has made efforts to re-engage him but clearly it isn't working because he's out for another affair. His complaint was that she never wanted to do anything with him, she was always negative and miserable. She didn't show any interest or affection. From his birthday onward it was obvious she was working hard to change that but it didn't phase him. It was one of the things that made me become increasingly uncomfortable with the affair(delays and excuses also) and made me see him in a whole new light - that he was just being cruel and selfish - that he wanted both because it suited him, other's feelings and needs be damned. I don't know why but it never occurred to me that it was as simple as keeping an excuse alive in case it was required for justification. He may have been honest when he said he loved me (I think he did in his own self-centered way) and didn't love her (if he did he would try now that our affair is over), but the realization he just wanted both is what allowed me to detach. Your insight provides further clarity. Thank you for that.

 

Edited to add: I'm curious why you are in contact with the OW from time to time. Would you mind sharing?

Edited September 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Starswillshine]

Kat- she contacts me from time to time. I believe she was searching for clarity as well. She wanted to see all angles.

 

I do not want to get into more details as I am sure she has already found this site and likely has figured who i am anyway, but just in case, i rather keep it only slightly vague. I'll be happy to answer anything more in PM.

[LIRR88]

I’m glad you had a great summer and you continue to get better. Mm sounds like a complete scumbag, the fact that he said you were the only one he’s cheated with yet he’s on Ashley Madison tells you everything you need to know. I would 100 percent send it to the wife, poor lady probably has no clue what this guy is up to. I’d wanna know, but hey that’s just me.

[ABernie]

He told me he was a first time cheater, I was his soulmate, he had a connection with me like no one else ever, I was the love of his life. Until October of last year that was true for me also but slowly his 'waffling' killed it for me. I still believe a part of him wanted to leave as he actually took the step of telling her.

 

My situation exactly

[ladydesigner]

I think most MM are scumbags anyways. They are all looking for some side piece. Some catch feelings and some don't but most it is always for just sex.

 

It's good you were able to uncover this for yourself. To know who this idiot really is. It took me 23 years to figure out that I'm married to a narcissistic sex addict.

 

You have definitely dodged a bullet and nuclear bomb.

[S2B]

I’m sure this wasn’t his first affair.

 

I’m sure this is his pattern. His wife will stay no matter what he does - so it’s like he has permission to do whatever he wants - and don’t believe all the crap he said about his wife - he lies, after all... as long as the lies suit his best interest he will always lie.

[PhoenixRising8]

I’m glad you had a great summer and you continue to get better. Mm sounds like a complete scumbag, the fact that he said you were the only one he’s cheated with yet he’s on Ashley Madison tells you everything you need to know. I would 100 percent send it to the wife, poor lady probably has no clue what this guy is up to. I’d wanna know, but hey that’s just me.

 

It tells me he has no intention of leaving if he isn't forced to and that he will have a succession of affairs to get his jollies, others' well being be damned.

 

I would love nothing more than to let her know but it would only hurt her and the kids. I doubt she would leave him. She is by everything I know, kind and caring and loves him completely. Women tend to have fewer options as they get older, even if they take care of themselves and are well presented. I would be devastating her. She had a pretty good idea he was stepping out and could have found evidence if she really wanted to. Credit cards, gps tracker. I could have found him out without trying too hard. I truly believe she is content to be oblivious.

[PhoenixRising8]

I’m sure this wasn’t his first affair.

 

I’m sure this is his pattern. His wife will stay no matter what he does - so it’s like he has permission to do whatever he wants - and don’t believe all the crap he said about his wife - he lies, after all... as long as the lies suit his best interest he will always lie.

 

The only things I believe about his wife are those I know to be true. She enables his bad behaviour, as I did for a time. She is good and caring and loves him completely though she is rough around the edges and somewhat unkempt. But she is smart and if she wanted to know the truth, it wouldn't be that difficult to have found him out.

[PhoenixRising8]

My situation exactly

 

Yes, I read your story. Mine was unfolding just after yours. I'm now thankful he didn't succeed in leaving. What I would have ended up with is no prize.

[PhoenixRising8]

I think most MM are scumbags anyways. They are all looking for some side piece. Some catch feelings and some don't but most it is always for just sex.

 

It's good you were able to uncover this for yourself. To know who this idiot really is. It took me 23 years to figure out that I'm married to a narcissistic sex addict.

 

You have definitely dodged a bullet and nuclear bomb.

 

I'm 99.999% sure mine did have genuine feelings for me but then reality hit him in the face and he backed down, we broke up for just under a month and then he came back knowing full well he wasn't leaving but continued to insist he was. That lasted 6 weeks before he was waffling and making excuses and this time I wasn't buying it. Had he stayed gone it would have been easier. Coming back after realizing he wasn't leaving but lying that he was was just deliberately continuing the affair under false pretences and that's what hurt the most. It was selfish and cruel.

 

I feel your pain on the narcissistic xH. It took me 25 years to figure it out. He crushed me in the meantime. Made it easy for xMM to look like Prince Charming after that. In truth, the first half he was. Problem with affairs is that they prop up marriages (until days, which we never had) and MM get used to having their cake and eating it. Why change anything when you can have the best of both? He's out trolling for the next one while wife thinks things are getting better. It's all about him.

Edited September 4, 2019 by LilKatKat

[Bluebelle38]

I don't think you sound remotely over this man at all. If you were, you would not be testing him.

 

I think you are likely gutted your entire relationship was a lie and you are having to face that you are far more replaceable than you thought.

 

As for him making a mockery of his marriage, you did that to her as well. He couldn't have done that without you ignoring her feelings.

 

Im sure it hurts your big love lied to you, but you really deserve no less when you willingly engaged in an affair.

 

Maybe his wife is rough, but he still chose to stay with her and move on from you.

[pepperbird]

A predator @S2B?

 

I want to give agency to women. LilKatKat is giving agency to herself and that earns respect.

When a person humbles themselves, Grace pours in.

 

 

True words. A woman ( or man) who sees themselves as a victim of an affair may well find the pain of ending it lasts so much longer. If they accept responsibility and see it as a result of their choices, they put themselves firmly in the driver's seat. They give themselves back the power over their lives and can do what they feel they need to do to live the life they want and love who they see looking back at them from the mirror.

 

A victim gives away all of his or her power, making them feel helpless and alone. I don't see how that helps anyone.