Why would an ex read your old 'love' emails?

[Rayce]

I didn't understand that statement either. I think that Seeing you just triggered the pain and maybe regret on losing control and hurting you the way she did. She just processing and it is a normal thing for some people to read and re-read love letters. It was only by accident that you discovered this but usually the injured party doesn't have this inside information... but you do so that is taking your pain a bit further than it normally would have... if that makes any sense. I find the whole thing really heart breaking.

[confusedInDenver]

I didn't understand that statement either. I think that Seeing you just triggered the pain and maybe regret on losing control and hurting you the way she did. She just processing and it is a normal thing for some people to read and re-read love letters. It was only by accident that you discovered this but usually the injured party doesn't have this inside information... but you do so that is taking your pain a bit further than it normally would have... if that makes any sense. I find the whole thing really heart breaking.

 

I'm not sure she is even so capable of seeing me and regretting hurting me per se. I really do think she tried to connect with someone in a way she had not in years (since her first early marriage) after a calamity she endured (I met her right after) and I think it was starting to really heal her but she found she simply could not sustain it and knew she was slipping back to her old/manic/destructive self so either pushed me away for her or to protect me. Must be a reason she destroyed my vision of her in the process.

 

And it makes sense since she ended up not 'healed' and dating up but (by all reports) regressing to some sleazy guy she picked up manic and drunk who by all reports uses her for money and gets drunk on her dime many nights a week. She knew she was heading to that cliff and my attempts at helping her go in the other direction (stop drinking, start getting involved in life again, etc) were not the direction she could/wanted to go.

 

So I personally think she reads the emails because it/I represent something she desperately wanted but simply couldn't and possibly still cannot find her way to.

 

She once sat with me while we were out looking at me like... can't explain really. with such happiness and... peace ...on her face. Finally she blurted out 'let's go!' and grabbed my hands and jumped up and we went to her place. Not for sex. But for her to watch something she had not in years and she said thank you I have not been able to connect to that part of myself for a long time I've been too scared. Hard to describe how amazing THAT felt. Can't have felt too bad to her either. But she pushed it away and hard. She said once "things are not going to end well for me you don't want to be around for that". It's like losing grip on someone's fingers who is drowning and that is impossible to describe either.

 

Thus my lingering thoughts and connection...

Edited September 4, 2019 by confusedInDenver

[Ddog]

For something really similar that happened to me...

 

It depend on what is your objective really and the two options got positive and negative side to it.

 

If you really want to make thing work and begin talking again you have to call her or at least text her. Just to take some news if she is fine or thing like that. You already said hi to each other in the street so the first thing is done.

 

The problem with that you can't know for sure how she will respond to it or if she changed. (She probably didn't change 6 month later after 40+ years of been a complete mess)

You got more chance to been screwed all over again than nothing else. For different reason : don't want to be with you because she got someone else, if she is with you she become fragile and reject you again, Reject everybody that good it her except the trash people. You look a little bit like a loser and a good guy at the same time make her believe she can have better or you deserved better. etc... etc...

 

The second option doing nothing and let her come.

The positive is that way you be sure that she will have done the work she got to do on herself and take the courage to make amend. (Even if she not happy with you because she lost mutual friend and was hurting when she saw you ignoring her, i'm pretty sure deep down she understand your reasoning to respect and protect yourself. In a kind of way she respect you a little better and don't want to hurt you more that she already done better she know she is trash.) The negative thing about let her come is this will most likely never happen. I been in the exact same thing (the reason for me to just go cold turkey was different) and i didn't send anything to her i even blocked her, but i never got apologize or anything else even 2 years later.

 

The big problem here is you living in the past in hope she change and that something that will maybe never happen. But if you do nothing she will never come back except maybe by pure luck you bump in each other at the right place and time again years later...

[confusedInDenver]

For something really similar that happened to me...

 

It depend on what is your objective really and the two options got positive and negative side to it.

 

If you really want to make thing work and begin talking again you have to call her or at least text her. Just to take some news if she is fine or thing like that. You already said hi to each other in the street so the first thing is done.

 

The problem with that you can't know for sure how she will respond to it or if she changed. (She probably didn't change 6 month later after 40+ years of been a complete mess)

You got more chance to been screwed all over again than nothing else. For different reason : don't want to be with you because she got someone else, if she is with you she become fragile and reject you again, Reject everybody that good it her except the trash people. You look a little bit like a loser and a good guy at the same time make her believe she can have better or you deserved better. etc... etc...

 

The second option doing nothing and let her come.

The positive is that way you be sure that she will have done the work she got to do on herself and take the courage to make amend. (Even if she not happy with you because she lost mutual friend and was hurting when she saw you ignoring her, i'm pretty sure deep down she understand your reasoning to respect and protect yourself. In a kind of way she respect you a little better and don't want to hurt you more that she already done better she know she is trash.) The negative thing about let her come is this will most likely never happen. I been in the exact same thing (the reason for me to just go cold turkey was different) and i didn't send anything to her i even blocked her, but i never got apologize or anything else even 2 years later.

 

The big problem here is you living in the past in hope she change and that something that will maybe never happen. But if you do nothing she will never come back except maybe by pure luck you bump in each other at the right place and time again years later...

 

I think that is great advice and great options. One reason I'm not reaching out.. One reason when she passed me and said 'hey' I just said 'hey' and kept walkng. The way the place is situated meant my back was to her and she could see me continuing on w/o looking back or stopping. Never texted her after or sent an email etc. Surprise surprise next night she read my email 4x until the wee hours.

 

HATE games like this but yes the only option is her reaching out. Not me. Me reinforces the bs paradigm she THOUGHT she was in; I'm weak she has upper hand. Not; I'm strong I can take it. So now she has dealt with utter unexpected response from me; fight back and walk away. And stay away.

 

Also for all she knows as I realized mutual acquaintance was being her spy I happily moved on immediately, happy to be rid of her, happily dating.

 

So all she had to go on was I body-slammed her back totally, ignored her like she didn't exist and happily found other women.

 

It is inane high-school crap for "middle aged" people.

 

Clearly she is hooked in, clearly she kept tabs on me, clearly she is reaching out.

 

The "hi" was great. She made sure it happened. IF anything is every to happen and IF I want it to then next move is hers. Otherwise even if I go back to 'us' I'm back to where she thinks she has 'upper hand' and hasn't even learned that I was being strong not weak.

 

She knows where I go. She can enginner whatever she wants. Pretty sure she thought last time would initiate contact and will not.

 

Lastly, yes, I agree 6 mos into 40+ years damage chance uniikely. Except for me a) she was actively getting help b) I think she experienced if not smeothing new something that was what she uses to have/want c) she might get that strength is not domination and weakness is not caring and d) I CAN and will walk away and e) I WON'T take abuse and have claws and fangs too.

 

Thanks for the personal example and I agree the best bet is to let her come to me. Reading the last emails 20x has to mean the hook is there. She can come or not.

[mark clemson]

If she has mental illness issues and/or borderline tendencies suggest you just use this opportunity to walk away cleanly from this. It might be easier said than done, but it's almost certainly the healthiest thing to do in this situation. Why set yourself up to be her therapist.

[confusedInDenver]

If she has mental illness issues and/or borderline tendencies suggest you just use this opportunity to walk away cleanly from this. It might be easier said than done, but it's almost certainly the healthiest thing to do in this situation. Why set yourself up to be her therapist.

 

Sigh yes you are right. That was the entire reason for walking away NC and shutting her out completely. The emails really were just to make amends/heal since I was sure I hurt her and I'd spent so much time trying to help/heal her. The dumb email receipts and her behavior post-break up which was a strange as during the 'relationship' somehow got me re-hooked. Made me thing there was something 'special'. There wasn't. Too late to walk away cleanly not too late to stay away...

[Rayce]

It really breaks my heart to read that people feel others with mental illness are not worth the bother or are too damaged to be loved.

[confusedInDenver]

It really breaks my heart to read that people feel others with mental illness are not worth the bother or are too damaged to be loved.

 

I don't think most people think that and I'm sure I don't. I mean... I love her. And I loved her and gave her more care than you can imagine. I mean like going to her place many times when she was either catatonic ally or suicidally depressed and holding her all night while she cried and telling her I'd take care of her. For God's sake when she was in terror of losing her high-end career I told her if that happened I would support her and get her any medical/psychological care she needed and stand by her the whole time. This btw was a week before she went medieval on my a**. I am not even sure that is a coincidence i.e. maybe she just said "God I need to destroy this to save him'. It fits with the comprehensive destruction of everything that ensued.

 

You have to admit however that unless you are already in love with someone, it is a huge lifelong commitment to pain and suffering and caring that you are undertaking and I was willing to undertake.

[Rayce]

There are a lot of just really sad and lonely people out in the world. I am sorry I am just a bit touchy this am. I see people label others so much. My own family does it to me. When I reach out and ask for help they say I am being manipulate, or attention seeking or playing games or some other nonsense. I had an argument with my daughter this week and she likes to label me with mental illness. Again I am sorry. You sound like a really nice guy who really does care for her. She does seem a bit over the top and I hope she does get some IC. I think you have done all you can for her.... most definitely more than any other person has ever done for her. peace

[confusedInDenver]

There are a lot of just really sad and lonely people out in the world. I am sorry I am just a bit touchy this am. I see people label others so much. My own family does it to me. When I reach out and ask for help they say I am being manipulate, or attention seeking or playing games or some other nonsense. I had an argument with my daughter this week and she likes to label me with mental illness. Again I am sorry. You sound like a really nice guy who really does care for her. She does seem a bit over the top and I hope she does get some IC. I think you have done all you can for her.... most definitely more than any other person has ever done for her. peace

 

Thank you Rayce and, yes, I think people find it easy to point at mental-illness or emotional illnesses as excuses to not deal with things or take people seriously. It is one reason for instance I've learned you don't call someone Bipoloar or Borderline Personality Disroder you say they are a person WITh e.g. pwBP or pwBPD. It helps to separate the two so you get they are a person dealing with something they can't control or help.

 

I ALWAYS tried to remember that with her as after I found out she had BP I did a lot of research into it and how to deal with it, I just, unfortunately, never got to the part about BP Rage or would have been prepared.

 

Here is a funny thing about 'more than any other person has ever done for her' (and I'm likely blowing my cover now if she ever reads this); when she was tearing me apart that night and screaming at me how my help didn't help OR mean a thing to her she screamed 'do you think you're the only person who ever helped me!!!?? My husband did this for five years!".

 

Now. This was her husband from a very early marriage, and the man to whom she always compared me to. Because from talking clearly she'd been with narcissistic abusive controlling men since but I was apparently like him; quietly strong, confident, emphatic, caring, took care of people w/o being asked, etc. After their painful divorce years back she ended up gravitating to crappy hurtful men.

 

At the time I was very hurt by the 'your'e not the only one who ever helped!' but I realize she didn't mention anyone else not her current friends or her ex-bf or mutual friends or her parents (who were almost daily in her life terrified for her) but her ex-husband from 10 years ago. I eventually 'got it' and just how much that revealed about what I really meant to her.

 

It is idiotic I'm still writing about this and knowing her if she read this she'd be filled with nothing but contempt. Yet she said that about my letters but still read them over and over and 1/2 a year plus later still reads them. So there was some connection there despite her need to destroy it or diminish it or run from it.

 

I'm pretty sure her prediction will come true; at some point she will lose her job as she cannot sustain it with her endless drinking and preoccupation and self-destruction and that will be the beginning of the end. It is why I reach out once in awhile with 'nice' emails; to let her know I'm out in the world caring for her and hoping it works out so maybe, just maybe, it gives her something to hold on to.

[Rayce]

Thank you for sharing so much about your situation. I really feel for her and hope she will find her peace one day. It sounds as if you have peace in your heart about the situation so that is good. I now want to agree with Mark about walking away. Your conscious is clear. I think if you keep emailing her you maybe keeping this pain alive for her. Stop checking to see if she is read and re-reading your emails. Maybe one day she will get the help she needs and your paths will cross again. It does happen. IMO....Whoever you do end up settling down with will be a very lucky woman.

[confusedInDenver]

Thank you for sharing so much about your situation. I really feel for her and hope she will find her peace one day. It sounds as if you have peace in your heart about the situation so that is good. I now want to agree with Mark about walking away. Your conscious is clear. I think if you keep emailing her you maybe keeping this pain alive for her. Stop checking to see if she is read and re-reading your emails. Maybe one day she will get the help she needs and your paths will cross again. It does happen. IMO....Whoever you do end up settling down with will be a very lucky woman.

 

Hi Rayce, I did in fact shut the tracker for her stuff off. Partly for her (I shouldn't have ever known), partly for me. Even though it helped to a degree to know the depth to which this does/did matter, that didn't help me moving as as I'd tried so hard to do.

 

Thanks for the kind words and the empathy!

[confusedInDenver]

Well paths did "cross". As I suspected she showed up at our place on a specific night aa week after the night we "bumped into each other" ( when I also knew she'd be there since she'd just read the emails) and the then she read them again that night too. So I knew I was on her mind and she'd show up that night.

 

And there she was. So I said hi. we spend 9 hours talking :| pretty much as we used to. It was heartbreaking really as my suspicion she ended up with a drunk loser using her for money and dragging her down further was correct and worse than expected. The sleazy guy who had convinced me how bad she was was in fact in her life now and they made some sleazy drunk troika, both of them drinking her out of house and home and using her for money for endless drinking binges. Not even about sex apparently, I know the second guy is gay for one thing. I tried to tell her he had an agenda to break us up, that being he wanted her down and depressed and I wanted her up and sober and getting better. He won I guess because he despises her as much as she does.

 

Sad as can be about it. She chose to push a person out of her life who wanted the best for her and wallow in the mud, and is now in danger as far as I can tell. At very least she has two people with a vested interest in her being drunk and depressed and isolated. I believe they will end up doing far worse, the first one is a drunk who just lost his job and was going to hit her up for money, they second is a grifter with a nose for finding damaged girls with Daddy's credit cards (I've seen it first hand). That won't end well. She said her parents visited her again and were very worried, I'm sure they saw the difference from when they last visited and I was in her life (I believe her mother really liked me and sensed/saw the difference I made).

 

She did, amazingly, say "I am so sorry for how I treated you I was horrible to you". But I don't think in her self-absorbtion she gets the depth of what she did, she thinks it is silly I took so long to 'get over a relationship'. I'm not not over a relationship I'm dealing with an astonishing level of intentional or not emotional abuse from someone I cared deeply about and damaged myself caring for. I don't mourn the relationship I spend my days trying to figure out what was real since both realities can be at the same time which can blow your mind.

 

She is sort of circling back to 'our place' and said "I'll see you there" when we parted ways, so I stopped going :| I know she's shown up once or twice. And of course last night I got an alert she read the letter again.

 

What is of some interest to me is she brought him up almost immediately since I have walked past them a few times as she knows and made clear they are NOT dating or sleeping together, that she can't be alone, and is her drinking buddy and they drink pretty much 24/7. Whenever she mentioned him she was clear she was not his gf, not sleeping together, he is asexual, etc. She in fact told a mutual friend she also bumped into what she told me when we were together; she is asexual and hasn't had or wanted sex for years. Don't fully buy it but there ya go. Not really bout sex for me anyway.

 

Not sure on next step except staying away but I am saddened beyond belief at what she has done to herself and the depth of her self-loathing and the danger she has put herself in. I see it as a way of killing herself where she can't just close the window or put down the gun. She said to me this time: "you are attracted to my damage'" and I told her she was wrong; "I'm attracted to the beautiful happy girl inside you that looked out at me with such joy when she was with me. That is who I hold my hand out to." But ya know what I think that girl is gone. Maybe she never existed.

[Ddog]

What you mean by our place? It's always confused me in your situation...

 

But only tips i can tell you is don't trust her word but only her action.

 

About the sex thing I call bull**** too. Why she even tell you that in the first place. From my gut it's hiding something.

 

I know you cared about her, but she is ultimately broken. She preferred going back to drama in her life than be safe with you. She knows it, but she doesn't do anything about that. She fed on that and that the behavior of those kind of person. (Most likely mental health disease)

 

I already told you she will most likely never change because people are like that. People don't change much... You can be better and change a little bit, but those kind of behavior rarely changes they always find a way to come back. And you just experienced it.

 

What to do? Well, nothing is polite and all because you are a great catch and don't let a broken person get the better of you. You can't do nothing your dream girl is out there and she ISN'T the girl you thing she was. If they are the peoples that got to help her is her parents. But even so she doesn't let them help her. In time she will herself up or stay in misery and surf in that wake.

[anika99]

I had a long term relationship with a man who had borderline personality disorder. It doesn't get better, you can't help, you can't fix them but they sure as hell can destroy you.

 

Yes they have huge melt down temper tantrums and push people away because they are severely emotionally stunted and act like children. After they calm down then they feel bad and regret their actions but don't mistake their regret for remorse. They feel bad for themselves not you. Because they are so childish they dont' really feel remorse or empathy. When they feel bad it's because they don't like the consequences of their actions. They feel sorry for themselves, not the person they hurt.

 

She is trying to reel you back in but playing it cool so that she doesn't open herself up to being rejected. She wants you to make the first move and that's why she's turning up places where she thinks you will be. People like her throw people away but then they never really want to let anyone go. They don't like to be alone and they frequently look up exes to see if they can bait them back into another dysfunctional relationship. Don't be flattered. You're not the only man she's treated this way and you're not the only one that she's fishing for.

 

It take year, YEARS, of therapy to help someone like her and that's only if she ever gets enough personal insight to realize that she's the problem. People with BPD get occasional moments of insight but it never lasts long enough for them to make a true effort at getting help. You'd be a fool to get involved with her again

[Rayce]

OP... I thought you turned off that tracking stuff. All that talk and hanging out with the other dude drinking and more drinking and who knows what else is going on. She sounds like a messed up 20 something... It's one thing if someone wants to be a better person and strives for that... sounds like games to me and you seem to nice for that. You would be best to find a new hang out and go NC... including turning off that tracking stuff for good!

[confusedInDenver]

She is trying to reel you back in but playing it cool so that she doesn't open herself up to being rejected. She wants you to make the first move and that's why she's turning up places where she thinks you will be. People like her throw people away but then they never really want to let anyone go. They don't like to be alone and they frequently look up exes to see if they can bait them back into another dysfunctional relationship. Don't be flattered. You're not the only man she's treated this way and you're not the only one that she's fishing for.

 

It take year, YEARS, of therapy to help someone like her and that's only if she ever gets enough personal insight to realize that she's the problem. People with BPD get occasional moments of insight but it never lasts long enough for them to make a true effort at getting help. You'd be a fool to get involved with her again

 

She won't ever get enough help, I',m sure she'll be dead by 50. She wants to be. I have no intention of getting involved with her again, I didn't see an iota of the woman I first loved. I totally get she is circling back playing it safe she always did that (played it safe didn't put herself out there etc). The conversations now, versus the initial amazing ones we had, are INANE "If I see a guy with a pretty female friend and she won't date him I know he is a loser". HOW? Maybe he doesn't like her? Maybe they are different religions? Maybe she likes his looks and money but they fight. Who CARES if/why she likes him or not how can that POSSIBLY be related to whether you want to? I don't even know who I'm talking to. Early on we'd take and I'd pinch myself "how can I have FOUND this woman? And she's nuts about me". I don't see her inside her at all.

Edited September 24, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[confusedInDenver]

What you mean by our place? It's always confused me in your situation...

 

But only tips i can tell you is don't trust her word but only her action.

 

About the sex thing I call bull**** too. Why she even tell you that in the first place. From my gut it's hiding something.

 

I know you cared about her, but she is ultimately broken. She preferred going back to drama in her life than be safe with you. She knows it, but she doesn't do anything about that. She fed on that and that the behavior of those kind of person. (Most likely mental health disease)

 

I already told you she will most likely never change because people are like that. People don't change much... You can be better and change a little bit, but those kind of behavior rarely changes they always find a way to come back. And you just experienced it.

 

What to do? Well, nothing is polite and all because you are a great catch and don't let a broken person get the better of you. You can't do nothing your dream girl is out there and she ISN'T the girl you thing she was. If they are the peoples that got to help her is her parents. But even so she doesn't let them help her. In time she will herself up or stay in misery and surf in that wake.

 

I know for fact it is BS on the sex, at least initially. I know for a fact she organized GANGBANGS. I don't care really. I wouldn't put my junk near her junk for all the money in the world. Somehow she doesn't get that and thinks this was about dating/sex. She said her new guy was mad at her about how she treated ME, she said 'about the no sex thing' and I said 'Do you think lack of SEX is what you did to me? Do you think I mourn our RELATIONSHIP? I walked away and out of bars when you showed up not becaue i was hurt but becuase I was horrified by who you turned out to be".

 

She won' get out of the wake she'll be dragged under. She wants to be there. I'm done.

[confusedInDenver]

OP... I thought you turned off that tracking stuff. All that talk and hanging out with the other dude drinking and more drinking and who knows what else is going on. She sounds like a messed up 20 something... It's one thing if someone wants to be a better person and strives for that... sounds like games to me and you seem to nice for that. You would be best to find a new hang out and go NC... including turning off that tracking stuff for good!

 

Yeah no way to turn off already tracked it turns out. Only moving fwd. Now I just turn it on selectively for new clients when tracking. I initially did this but forgot a few times so missed tracking prospective clients. So turned it on auto. So I just turned it off.

 

She is a messed up mean high-school girl. And I personally don't think it is just her personality disorder. I think if you took away her BP and maybe BPD she'd still be a mean shallow girl under there. She hid it so well the first two months or so which is why I LIKED her; so many shallow women (and men) here and she had depth and critical thinking and independence and I loved talking to her. Now it is like talking to an overgrown demonic looking 15 year old high school girl. The ugliest girl of the pretty girls which is always bad. She chose what she deserved.

 

I've met 1/2 dozen amazing women in the last month or two and it is a breath of fresh air let me tell you. She said when we said good night "See you at (our bar)" since she is returning. I have not returned since and do not plan to. Met an amazing med student, a gorgeous sweet architect and a super sweet exotic event desginer. So far none of them want to kill themselves or for me to organize a gangbang so that is the direction I'm going in, she can have 'our place'. Not me.

[confusedInDenver]

"Nice" end to the story. I have this male friend/acquaintance, very competitive with me regarding women, always makes every woman I like into some sort of competition. Usually forgiving of it since didn't really care about most of the ones he did this with and figured he is just infantile and insecure, neither of which I am. So knock yourself out 'friend'.

 

This one however was interesting; he stayed away the entire time saying 'man you two have something special, you are in a bubble of light when you are together, happy for you" one reason I "knew" this was special (other people would comment the same thing, e.g. this acquaintance who saw us together only once and came up and said 'so glad you finally found your special someone', strangers would ask how long we have been married, etc).

 

Anyway. As you know she circled back after 6 mos, so this guy (who knows the confusion and heartbreak I went through) 'joked' with me 'hey I'm going to go talk to her' and I said do not F with me on this one do NOT engage her, she is in bad shape for one thing and we just reconnected for another and you know how I feel for another this one is not a joke. Hand on Bible don't want romance with her but do care and wanted space for her to reach out if she needed since clearly she was trying to do just that.

 

So since I stay away from that bar now that she is going again so I don't run t into her he ran into her w/o me and proceeded to not only talk to her about 'us' which I "forbade" him to do he tried to (and I'm guessing was partially to fully successful in doing) pick her up. So he betrayed my friendship just to prove to himself he is more attractive than I am and she, a night after re-reading for the 1000th time a beautiful letter wherein I express hope she heals and finds herself and is happy finally and circled back to the bar we met, allowed my best friend to pick her up.

 

So he lost a good friend. And I put nail-in-coffin for on a girl who lost one of the few people who actually care for her welfare and can deal with the alkiie all alone when he is released from rehab and returns for money and the grifter in her apartment who wants her degraded and drunk all by herself figures out how to scam her out of her lifesavings or life with the alkie.

 

Ah the power of personality disorders. I've lost sympathy for people with them and am simply dedicated to jettisoning anyone from my life who exhibits the first sign of mental or personality disorders. Might end up with a tiny circle of friends but gotta be better than this...

 

Good news as I sign out on this thread is in the last few weeks met several really amazing women, had some amazing conversations with real human beings and gracious and graceful ladies with wide ranging interests other than their narcissistic fears and shallow high-school complaints. Right now casually dating three of them (a guy who was always 1000% one-lady kind of guy), I have a sunset row with one of them Sunday and we'll see where they end up. Even if none go anywhere at least I'll put the damaged girl firmly in the rear-view window where she belonged and get back to the kind of women I always liked before. Good riddance to the bad rubbish one-off and welcome back all the real ladies in the world.

 

Thanks for all the support!

Edited September 25, 2019 by confusedInDenver