REAL LOVE Affair or Male Postnatal Depression? (Baby loss)

[pepperbird]

op,

I understand wanting to make sense of his actions, but you may not be able to. Part of the process of grieving the turn your marriage has taken will be accepting that you might never get the answers you're looking for.

 

You sound a bit like me. I'm a "fixer". I want to make everyone happy, and almost always think that there is a solution to every problem if I just look hard enough, try an understand it enough and give enough.

 

That all sounds wonderful and noble, but it's not. It has kept me in relationships long after the "best before" date has come and gone. The truth of the matter was that it was more about my need to "fix" and help them than it really was about them. It was so hard to accept that sometimes I couldn't and to let go.

 

Your H is a big boy, making his own decisions, cruddy though they may be. You are not responsible for his choices and actions. You've given him ample opportunity to make his choice, provided him with the information he needs to make it an informed one.

 

He's made his decision. Let him go, and if he screws up, let him be the one to deal with the fallout. You've done your due diligence, now it's time for you to cut yourself some slack.

 

Oh and that crap about hos OW husband and her being in danger? Cry me a river. If she's so scared he'll hurt her if she steps out, then she wouldn't be stepping out. If your husband is so scared, he can call the police and let them deal with her ( and if, like the ow my husband was seeing tries the "I'm going to self harm" nonsense to try and make you feel bad, then calmly and coolly go and report said comment to the police...let them go and save her. She's not your problem)

 

My guess? This is hardly her first rodeo, nor will it be her last. SHe; got the "poor widdle me" act down pat.

[Rainbows]

Schlumpy;

Is him seeking redemption a good thing in terms of our marriage, to me it shows a battle to not know which way to go...

 

I dont think he is the type of man to ever beg, he'd be too scared of rejection.

He's not very assertive in those terms.

 

Pepperbird;

This is why this is all a little too close to loosing my daughter.

At first when she was diagnosed with her 'rare' condition id sit and think WHY, I researched and researched, I was desperate to know why and desperate to 'fix' it like you say...

It was just so unfair.

And so is this.

We never had an argument, we never had a conversation even to suggest there was a problem for him in the marriage...I never had the chance to work together.

The PND was the problem and I scrambled to find us help but didnt get there in time

I felt like this affair was used like a drug, or alcohol, something my husband is all too familiar at turning too...but Id have expected after me showing forgiveness he would find it easier to return.

 

But I think Schlumpy has some raised some really good points and maybe my husband really cant find redemption and he thinks I WILL not forgive him like he continues to say to me...nor can he forgive himself.

But Id expect to see a man in a worse state than he is whilst battling such thoughts.

(How can he wave at his kids and leave like he does if its killing him.)

 

 

I have a small reason to believe he's moved in with AP and her daughter recently.

I mean if this is true, thats it, its over isnt it.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Rainbows

[Rainbows]

Between that last post and now ive broken, my strengths just gone, I am wishing this wasnt my life, I feel such anger for this woman invading my family.

 

My husband is to blame too yes, yes, yes, but she knew what we had been through and she could have stopped an affair from happening. She was never part of my life and now she IS. Shes right in the middle of my and my childrens lives.

 

I feel so very sorry for myself and im sick of being told to be strong.

Ive been strong, I needed a break, and instead of getting that break, I got this. I was so nearly there.

[pepperbird]

 

I feel so very sorry for myself and im sick of being told to be strong.

Ive been strong, I needed a break, and instead of getting that break, I got this. I was so nearly there.

 

 

op,

please be kind to yourself. You have been through one of the most awful experiences a family can go through, and now, it's been compounded.

 

 

 

You do sound like a strong person, but you have been pushed beyond your limit. Anyone who has been through all the stress and heartache you have would be.

 

Feel however you want. Sad, angry, confused...it's all valid.

 

I'm sorry to say it, but it's very possible your husband isn't going to come back. I hate what he's done to you, but even worse, I hate what he's doing to his kids. I know he's also been through a terrible time and had a rough start in life.

 

That doesn't give him any right or excuse to treat your kids like this. He's had so much time to get his act together, and this is how he's acted? You may have to accept he's reached the limit of his ability to heal from everything that's happened.

 

None of that is your fault. None.

[schlumpy]

Rainbows:

 

Do not hang your hopes on his need for redemption. When a person wants to be redeemed it’s because they fear what they may lose. That’s the driving impetus but you are giving your husband no reason to fear any personal loss. You have already told him that he can come back anytime without paying a price.

 

You have not set up the conditions for redemption to work. Instead you have given him all the time he’s needed to disconnect from you emotionally. He’s way ahead of you.

 

I suspect his next move will be to financially disconnect as well.

 

It’s way past time for you to push him to the back of your mind and make adjustments to your life that will protect you and your children. That should be your primary concern.

 

It is the only reasonable path open to you and I’m truly sorry to say that.

[Mr. Lucky]

My husband is to blame too yes, yes, yes, but she knew what we had been through and she could have stopped an affair from happening. She was never part of my life and now she IS. Shes right in the middle of my and my childrens lives.

 

Rainbows, had it not been her, it would've been someone else. Your entire thread consists of making excuses for him. What's that say about his character and behavior?

 

Time to stop thinking about them and focus on you. Keep posting, lots of support here...

 

Mr. Lucky

[pepperbird]

Rainbows, had it not been her, it would've been someone else. Your entire thread consists of making excuses for him. What's that say about his character and behavior?

 

 

This, right here, speaks to the quality of any "love" they may share. If it wasn't her, it would have been someone else.

[Rainbows]

Thanks Pepperbird for the gentleness.

 

Its possibly why I seem in denial by other peoples standards, it really is the only way to cope sometimes.

If he has moved in with her, I cant use denial anymore...it'll be a tough blow. I just need to get that proof asap.

 

Yes I dont believe for a second the OW is not his 'new' soul mate, she is so so different to everything he was into its laughable.

But if shes giving out sex on tap and is 'easy going' im sure itll make it easy for him...but how his children arent mattering to him, is beyond my ability to analyse.

 

Schlumpy;

Ive been talking to my counselor about consequences, but im so confused as to what is he really set to loose, I feel like I cant assert much...

 

I cant buy him out of the house, so he knows he will always have his name here and can legally move back in/have a key (for what its worth).

He knows he can demand to see his kids as and when 'HE' sees fit.

He knows he can take my children around the OW, and his family (in time)

 

All he'd loose is me as his wife via divorce...but if hes chosen the OW he wont care about this fact.

He'd maybe loose the ability to gain credit/another mortgage with OW...

If he was that bothered about me or the children he'd be here now.

I certainly want to assert consequences now but I dont feel they are really going to effect him in his selfish state. He would actually get MORE of what HE wants...

 

I feel like a dog chasing my own tail.

 

Unfortunately he's walked into a situation whereby the woman must own her own home and... its quite a nice one and shes quite tidy, thanks fate

[schlumpy]

Rainbows:

 

Ok. I understand how you see it. You feel he is holding all the cards. Please don’t think I’m urging you to do something that is against your nature. You live in the real world just as I do and there are limits to what can be done. Money is always an issue. There’s the question of how to maintain your children’s standard of living. He goes off with his new girl and you go off to an empty apartment. Not fair. Not fair at all.

 

I have no cunning suggestion to alleviate the disparity of resources between the two of you. I can’t give you a magical incantation or potion that will make him care again. I don’t have a time machine you can use to fix the past.

I can only offer guidance from the information you provide. I don’t care about your husband, I only care about you. I want you safe and taking those first steps towards regaining control over your own life. I would like to see every decision you make from now on to only be in your interest and your childrens. Please accept that no matter the outcome of this situation or however long you wait – everything will change.

 

I’m out of my depth here since this is UK law but if you divorce isn’t everything split 50/50? Would you not get alimony and child support? If you work would you be able to maintain a household on that income level?

I know it’s not what you want but I can’t see any other option unless it’s to look the other way and hope he gets tired of his GF but that is what you have been doing.

 

One thing that bothers me and feel free to tell me to buzz off if you don’t want to answer. He is having sex with his new GF - right? What is it that allows you to get past that?

[Mr. Lucky]

I cant buy him out of the house, so he knows he will always have his name here and can legally move back in/have a key (for what its worth).

He knows he can demand to see his kids as and when 'HE' sees fit.

 

Rainbows, not sure where you live, but in most Western countries that's not how separation and divorce work (ask me how I know ).

 

The agreements involved stipulate everything from custody to visitation to who lives where. So your (ex) husband can't just show up demanding entrance to your house or visitation with his kids.

 

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rainbows]

When this first happened and I was hit face on by this train, I thought we were going to loose everything.

 

We are joint owners of our home.

But as I am the primary carer of our children, my husband cannot 'force' me out of this house, or ask to sell it etc 'until' our youngest child is 18....thats 17 years off!

 

This was/is our dream, forever home - we bought it FOR our family, so we stretched ourselves here.

The terms of our mortgage stands that if we sell before 5 years, we will be paying hefty hefty fees - double figure thousands.

We arent allowed to rent it out for these 5 years either.

 

My husband lived in poverty as a child so I made sure to point out to him that he was inflicting every negative part of his own childhood onto OUR children.

He said without hesitation "I'll pay for the house" - and nothing has actually changed financially, his full wage comes in as normal. I hoped that this was because he wasnt sure of what he was doing and would make a return easier!

 

If things got nasty and he takes that money from us, he will only have to pay Child Support payment - minimum of £300 a month.

Considering he's paying in £2,000 right now, thats a hell of a drop

Its unbelievable that a partner can walk away from joint responsibilities, unbelievable...

 

The other factor is my job is in jeopardy at the moment too because of these circumstances.

He doesnt live in this city anymore, so I couldnt rely on him to help with childcare arrangements/pick up/drops offs even if I wanted him to.

As we have two children under school age, id just be working to pay the extortionate nursery fees.

 

Schlumpy; Well everyone thats managed to save a relationship following an affair has had to get past the fact their spouse has had sex with the AP..

But.

It makes me feel sick. It makes me cry. Imagining him telling her he loves her afterward, I mean I read all their messages, saw the videos?

I know I will get slated for this; but I think of my children and nothing seem to stops me trying to save our family. I have too many happy memories of what our family was.

There was never a 'bad' period, there wasnt a demise of the relationship so im struggling with this contrast.

Lots of questioning of 'self worth' etc I know...

I guess its going to take a lot to get over a man that ive spent everyday of my life with for the past 16 years....

 

Mr.Lucky;

Yes Ive spoken to a couple of solicitors.

Because he is on the childrens birth certificates he has equal rights to them. I apparently 'cannot' refuse for him to see them.

If he just physically took them without my consent, the police wont be able to do anything for about 48hrs, as he is legally their father.

I cannot change the locks on the house - he has to always have a key, or he can legally break in.

He can move back into this house anytime he wanted.

 

IF we pay through court to get legal child visitation rules set up - THEN im sure I would be favored - his behavior and choices would go against him.

The majority of fathers get the every other weekend visitation ruling...

Due to the young ages of our children, he would have to take time building this up.

Its all about what is best for the children - and him taking the children to be with him alone isnt going to be in their best interest when they are so attached to me. My daughter has cried and refused to hold his hand on some visits.

 

But one day, one day in the future...he would be able to take them from me, and id have to stand there and watch, and know where they are going, and I hear the tales from my friends whom have gone through mutual splits - how they cried on the doorstep for hours after etc...

But this isnt a mutual split, this is an affair, after IVF, after loosing my first daughter, after dreaming of our family, its just incomprehensible for me and thats why I am really struggling.

 

Im not sure I can fight that level of anger that would take over.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Rainbows

[elaine567]

IF we pay through court to get legal child visitation rules set up - THEN im sure I would be favored - his behavior and choices would go against him.

 

Would it?

Adultery per se is not taken into consideration in the UK.

If he is now living with the AP in decent accommodation and she is not an addict or a criminal and is of no danger to the children, then any claim from him for custody will be just as valid.

 

I know it is hard but atm you need to take the emotion out of this and look at the reality.

Yes it is not fair, but it is what it is and no amount of " it's not fair" or it "should" be this or that, or he "should" do this or that, will make a blind bit of difference.

If he decides to stop paying for the house, or he cannot pay for the house for some reason, then the mortgage lenders will come after you as you are the other owner, so forget about thinking you have that house for the next 17 years... you may not.

You have never lived there, maybe it would be better financially to just sell it and both walk away clean... Something for you to consider.

[schlumpy]

You have never lived there, maybe it would be better financially to just sell it and both walk away clean... Something for you to consider.

 

Please re-read her post Elaine. They are facing a large penalty payment if they sell within the first five years. There is more then likely no equity to cover this fee.

 

That would give me pause too.

Edited September 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

They are facing a large penalty payment if they sell within the first five years. There is more then likely no equity to cover this fee.

 

I know that, that is what she needs to consider too, but it may be peanuts if he decides to walk away and leave her to pay the mortgage or the property ends up repossessed...

It is why during divorce the assets like the house are either taken over completely by one party, or are sold off and debts dealt with, so both can walk cleanly away with nothing left hanging over them.

[schlumpy]

I know that, that is what she needs to consider too, but it may be peanuts if he decides to walk away and leave her to pay the mortgage or the property ends up repossessed...

 

Ok. Sorry. I should have known better that you left it unsaid.

[schlumpy]

I'm sorry Rainbows but my relationship tool box is getting empty. The only thing left in there is the scorched earth policy and that means total destruction.

 

I don't see how you can avoid a drop in your standard of living. It will be either forced on you when your husband quits paying the bills because of illness, disability, loss of job, or just because he doesn't want to anymore.

 

His reliability, as you well know, is not a rock you can stand on. You must take steps to put yourself in a position that you can sustain and control. It's all you have left.

 

If you let this situation destroy you your chances for recovery become much less.

 

Put the dreams away for another day so that you can make them come true.

[Rainbows]

Elaine; With regards to our children - this is about the fact he got up and completely abandoned us!

By his own choice - he cut us off completely for 2 whole months, saw us for a few hours, then left again for 3 weeks, then saw us for a few hours, then left for 6 weeks!

 

Divorce itself, is intended for marriages that are 'Irretrievable' - and as the solicitor advised me, it is not irretrievable whilst one partner is willing to save the marriage etc.

Adultery is seen as bad decision making, he had two babies at home - but he chose to have an affair? If other aspects are compounded with that (such as; abandonment/drinking/fraud/lack of trust) this will all go toward building a picture of an irresponsible person. How HAS he been a responsible parent?

He's given us money, thats it.

 

I wouldnt have a clue what sort of woman the AP is and I would not be allowing my children around anyone I didnt know.

Psychopathic I may turn by the end of this...but I AM in control of whats best for my children.

And just stating these facts has my blood boiling right now.

 

Ive lived in our 'home' for 10 months now...and id just spent the year before that; building this damn house. Its our home not a house.

Trying to take something as huge as 'emotion' out of an equation like this is - beyond - difficult.

 

Schlumpy; I will find a way to financially sustain this home, but like I say unfortunately my husband wont have 'lost' his share, so this is why it feels as though he's not realllllly suffering any consequences, and he at least deserves consequences.

 

I got out of the house today, had a nice day...but ALL I thought about was him, 24 damn 7, I DREAM about him, to 'switch' my mind off is extremely difficult...I dont know what is wrong with me, how I can still love this man, but I am doing??

Edited September 18, 2019 by Rainbows

[Mr. Lucky]

IF we pay through court to get legal child visitation rules set up - THEN im sure I would be favored - his behavior and choices would go against him.

The majority of fathers get the every other weekend visitation ruling...

Due to the young ages of our children, he would have to take time building this up.

Its all about what is best for the children - and him taking the children to be with him alone isnt going to be in their best interest when they are so attached to me. My daughter has cried and refused to hold his hand on some visits.

 

I get the feeling you're reluctant to take this very logical next step because you see it as closing a door you want to remain open.

 

If "future Rainbows" were here, she's tell "current Rainbows" she's being foolish, naive and hopelessly delusional. Hope you listen to her, she's learned the hard way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[schlumpy]

Schlumpy; I will find a way to financially sustain this home, but like I say unfortunately my husband wont have 'lost' his share, so this is why it feels as though he's not realllllly suffering any consequences, and he at least deserves consequences.

 

I got out of the house today, had a nice day...but ALL I thought about was him, 24 damn 7, I DREAM about him, to 'switch' my mind off is extremely difficult...I dont know what is wrong with me, how I can still love this man, but I am doing??

 

Rainbows - what you love is an idealized version of your husband. It is not who he is and he will never be that person again except in your dreams.

 

Everyone grieves in their own way. You have a right to set your own timetable. Just don't let it cripple you for the rest of your life. You deserve more than that.

[Prudence V]

 

Something happened when he found out our new baby was a boy

 

Rainbows, a very similar thing happened with my xH. He was a devoted father, drew his identity from being a child-centred father of a daughter, who really was he centre of his world. He was excited about the pregnancy, but when our boy was born it triggered something inside him.

 

From being a devoted, active parent he changed almost overnight, becoming like a resentful child himself. The baby could be lying right next to him, screaming to have his nappy changed, and he would be oblivious, and would start asking me to make him something to eat.

 

There was no OW involved, but he did abandon us in a different way. He started going out for long walks on the mountain, sometimes not coming home for several days (not bothering to go to work, either). I too hoped he would eventually bond with the baby but it didn’t happen. He was unwilling to seek help of any kind, so I left. Throughout my son’s childhood, he had no relationship with his father as his father was just not interested (his sister had sporadic contact over the years). This was all 30+ years ago now.

 

My xH had a complicated relationship with his parents, and he absolutely saw his inability to relate to his own son as a consequence of that - but that changed nothing. Your H may ascribe his own failure to bond with his son to childhood issues - but unless he does something about that, it changes nothing. You can hold out hope, but if he’s like my xH then you’ll be hoping for a long time with nothing changing, and your kids’ childhoods tarnished by his ghost.

[Rainbows]

Prudence; Wow. Yes very similar...thats why I felt this affair was an escape tool.

 

How old was his daughter when this happened?

How did he react to you leaving?

Did he ever acknowledge the connection between his childhood and there being something really wrong in the way he reacted to his son being born?

Did he visit his children etc?

[pepperbird]

op,

I am not a money person, so I have no advice to offer about the finances of your situation. I did want to say that I understand your concern about the way your husband has been treating your children.

 

I know it's galling, but try not to let it show to your kids. He's their dad, so he is half of who they are, in a manner of speaking. You don't have to praise him, but don't run him down either. Let them know he loves them.

 

That's a tall order, but the dividends it will pay will be great. Kids aren't as stupid as some adults think...they'll figure him out pretty quickly. I have a feeling that you already know all that I've said here and are putting it into practice.

 

I'll say it again- please, look after yourself. you've been thrown a real curve ball...it's okay to cry, scream, shout, even rage if you want to. I know it sounds corny, but there is something very cathartic about picturing a pillow as being the stressors in one's life and then just beating the hell out of it. It doesn't hurt the pillow, and it feels darned good:laugh:. In all seriousness, is there a good friend or family member you trust who you can maybe have dinner with and talk through all of this?

[Prudence V]

How old was his daughter when this happened?

 

She was older than your daughter - in primary school at that time

How did he react to you leaving?

 

He went through a range of reactions - initially he “didn’t care”, then he became angry and blamed me for everything that was wrong in his life, and then he settled into depression. TBH, I was focused on single parenting the kids, so him and his reactions weren’t really my primary concern at the time (though he clearly felt this was another of my failings)

 

Did he ever acknowledge the connection between his childhood and there being something really wrong in the way he reacted to his son being born?

 

He did - he blamed his parents quite openly, but didn’t actually try to address it in any way. He felt that it was their responsibility to identify their failings and make it up to him in some way, and that everything would be solved through some unstated process.

 

 

Did he visit his children etc?

 

He would occasionally phone his daughter, but pretty much just pretended that his son didn’t exist. He did once visit a friend who was working at our son’s school, and the friend suggested he meet up with his son, but his son wasn’t interested (he was busy playing with friends) at that point so there wasn’t really any contact with him.

 

As adults, there has been the odd visit, but no real relationship to speak of.

[Rainbows]

Yeah I talk to my friends about this constantly and they are all very frustrated with his behavior, like I say though its easy for them to say he has no right to treat us this way and expect to just turn up as and when he wants, but the law seems to say the opposite.

 

He was meant to see us Friday - cancelled, apparently the stress of the situation.

He was meant to see us today - cancelled, again because hes stressed.

 

But the OW posted another little 'hint' on her social media that they were together, playing happy families.

Its never enough for a 'gotcha' but enough to send you into a frenzied paranoia that your kids have just been cancelled so he can be with the OW and HER child.

 

Im really struggling this week, I tried to just get out with the children and enjoy the day but ended up crying in the middle of the street

[schlumpy]

Rainbows: Feel the pain but refuse to suffer.