Mr. Lucky Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 And sure enough, the emotional abuse of being 'ignored' sent me crazy again. Rainbows, he's not ignoring you, he's sending you very clear responses. He's not interested in keeping you as anything other than a back-up plan, and even that wouldn't be as you'd picture it. I sent him an email (because he wont talk) and said with clarity that I refuse to be second best, because I am not and my children should never see their mother treated as such. If this is true, and it certainly should be, time to act. It may wake him up or not, but at lease moving forward with divorce removes you from limbo. Don't think you should wait any longer... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Rainbows, he's not ignoring you, he's sending you very clear responses. Totally agree. His lack of response is a response. Just as his “liking” a picture by the OW also sends a very clear message... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rainbows Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 Thanks. The problem with ignoring someone, other than it being a form of emotional abuse, is that its open to interpretation/presumption and it drives you crazy, even when it is appearing like he just wants to run from everything/has no fight for me or our marriage/family. Its so unbelievable you try make excuses for what could be going on instead of the possible truth. The fact he cant take responsibility for anything is so frustrating. You wouldnt think of it as such, but when you read about how husbands have had a 360 and they tell their wives they dont love them anymore, they love their affair partner and its over - its in the least a defined situation. To have to have second 'guess' everything, to not have confirmation of the affair ongoing it creates a vortex you just get sucked into over thinking. He responded last night to me to say sorry, he has received my emails and he will 'get back to me soon'. My stomach is in knotts. Ive told him we need to discuss this face to face like adults, not via texts. It does take two to save a marriage and so all I can do is take my responsibility in that seriously and try my best, I know ive tried everything...but I just dont seem to be able to give up...I have waves or putting my foot down and then I feel like 'IM' the one giving up!? I think this is probably worse for me because I am still in the reality of our family home, with our children 24/7 and 'seeing' the fall out of it all, having to tell our daughter daily 'Daddys not here' - he's been able to run away and not actually see the aftermath. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 It does take two to save a marriage and so all I can do is take my responsibility in that seriously and try my best, I know ive tried everything...but I just dont seem to be able to give up...I have waves or putting my foot down and then I feel like 'IM' the one giving up!? Seeing a divorce attorney isn't giving up on your marriage any more than buying life insurance signifies you've given up on living. It's protecting yourself and your family and preparing for one of the possible outcomes, and initiating a process that can be halted at any time. Heck, there's a poster here who divorced his wife over her infidelity and then remarried her, they're still together. Right now you're enabling your husband's behavior, he knows he can explore this new relationship while you sit at home waiting, willing to take him back at any time. He needs to understand his actions have consequences, specifically if he continues he'll lose you and the life he's known. While you haven't necessarily been weak, it's time to deal from a position of strength. Your next email to him should start with "I've seen a lawyer"... Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 The problem with ignoring someone, other than it being a form of emotional abuse, is that its open to interpretation/presumption and it drives you crazy. Its so unbelievable you try make excuses for what could be going on instead of the possible truth. It does take two to save a marriage and so all I can do is take my responsibility in that seriously and try my best, I know ive tried everything... Sure, except that his message is loud and clear when he does not respond to your request for communication/to reinstate in the marriage/family. Just because his response is not what you want it to be, doesn’t make the message any less clear. You hang on, hoping and praying to get the answer that you want from him. The sooner that you understand - anything less than an absolute - “Yes! I want you and I want our family. I have been wrong and this other woman is gone from my life. I am moving home, we are going to counselling - I want to be with my family” - anything less than that is a hard no. No response - is a hard no. Think of it this way, consider the concept of “closure.” Some people agonize for a really long time, looking for some kind of “closure” from the person who hurt, betrayed, or left them. They search in vain because there is no “closure” to be gained from the other person. You give yourself closure, but letting go of what was or what could have been. As Mr Lucky says - you give yourself closure by assuming a position of strength - deciding that you require more for yourself, that you will not accept this behavior from your partner, and in this case... talking to an attorney and filing for divorce. It’s a hard fought battle, no doubt. It starts by deciding that you will not wait indefinitely, wondering and hoping that he will come to his senses. You must accept the reality of the situation and do what is required to protect yourself and your children. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rainbows Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 Good point Mr Lucky, I can understand what you mean there re likening it to insurance and yes it can be stopped at any time. And yes I am totally enabling him...(everyone around him is) Oh I will definitely keep my appointment with the solicitor to gain further advice. (I had already seen a solicitor at the very start of this) I guess im not really sure of how it is protecting the children and I, currently he seems to be giving us farrrr more money than he would have to pay us 'by law'...maybe thats his guilt, or maybe thats his bargaining chip? Divorce might force him to start dividing everything. I do completely want to offer up a consequence to his behavior but his consequence of a divorce only seems to be that he wont be able to call me his Wife anymore...so again maybe it comes down to my self confidence, is that really a great loss to him, it doesnt seem to be at the moment... He knows he can demand the children half the time from me, he doesnt seem to care about the time he's missing out on re the children. So I struggle to see what would make him shake in his boots? But to start the divorce process, to actually issue him with papers to sign, will cost me £500, which if he is not going to sign, I am obviously hesitant on spending the money on, especially when its not (in irony) exactly something I want him to sign. A friend raised a good point in the fact that this affair relationship if it is ongoing, 'seems' to be quite secret, which is strange, thats either keeping the thrill going or one of them feels guilty, but we wondered if the OW would perhaps start to push him to divorce, it must surely be a topic of conversation - and id never thought of that... My appointment isnt for another couple of weeks. Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 That's the crux of the strategy. He has to miss you. He has to miss the children and the life he knew. If he doesn't care about any of these things then you have no leverage to save the marriage. If you just sit and wait for him to come to his senses it could end up exactly the same except for the time you wasted. You have to do what is good for you. If waiting is what you want to do then do it. I'm sure there are plenty of anecdotal stories where it has worked although there are ten times more where it didn't. You may be one of the lucky ones. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 What you do is stop enabling him. Don't talk to him about your marriage, only discuss children and finances. Leave the house when he comes to see the children. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rainbows Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 The absolute emotional abuse of being ignored is torturous. Since saying he didnt want a divorce 2 weeks ago, he has cut me off again, not seen me or the children and its our daughters 3rd birthday this weekend (the day after the OWs) Id asked him to come shopping for her presents with me, ive invited him to her party and a day out....not even an answer. WHY cant he say Im with the OW or I want to divorce, why did he say he DIDNT want a divorce, my mind is absolutely black, why cant he just say SOMETHING even if it was "I dont know what I want"! He cancelled seeing the children on Saturday due to anxiety and Sunday due to a bad back. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Rainbows, you're going to have to accept two things - - he doesn't know what he wants and will selfishly use you as a placeholder without regard to the effect on your or your family - he's not going to do what you want, with little things or in the big picture Have you seen your lawyer yet? Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Rainbows, While I really admire your dedication to keeping your marriage/fmaily together, it really sounds like you've come to the tipping point. How much longer are you going to allow yourself and your children to be abused like this? I didn't use the word "abused" lightly. What he is doing to you is a form of emotional abuse, and it's bad enough he's doing it to you. It makes me want to kick his @ss knowing that he's doing to his kids. If he can't act like an adult, then let him go. He's the one who will miss out. If you keep things going the way they are, you are hurting your kids. He doesn't get to just come and go when it's convenient for him or his OW. B Being a dad is full time, not whenever he feels like it and has nothing better to do. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rainbows Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Mr Lucky; I see the solicitor this week. (Although due to cost I am more likely to start a divorce through an online service.) Pepperbird, Its obvious from the way his mother treated me recently, that somehow 'he's' unbelievably managed to play the victim in this.. He will have presented my emails as emotional blackmail or punishment to force guilt upon him... I try to communicate in all fairness the impact of his actions, I try to communicate that guilt should be a form of motivation because all of this is rectifiable to try to save our family. Yes, I can easily flick the switch and hate him for what he's done/but more importantly 'doing'...sometimes I just cant believe it. If we didnt have children, especially this young, I wouldnt have put up with this, not for this long. But I would find it difficult to control my level of bitterness and anger. I wish it was the case of 'he cant just get to come and go at his convenience' but thats what he's ranted at me regarding the law and it is seemingly true - because hes on the birth certificate, he has equal rights etc, plus this is half his house.. Thats why I feel powerless sometimes. He WILL get all of what 'he' wants...whilst I will have to give up half of my time with my children? I understand the fact is they are 'his children' aswell, but he hasnt acted like a father? He hasnt made ANY sacrifices? He hasnt been willing to even TRY save this, for their sakes even? So whilst a child is meant to benefit from the involvement of both parents - I dont see his side as genuine love at all, or he'd have at least attempted the above. Then despite his failings, its 'me' that will have to suffer that separation, its just very painful for me. The only thing he will be set to loose is at very most 'half' of the time with his children and 'me' as his legal 'wife'...both of which he doesnt seem to care about. He just wants to see the children for a bit, take a few selfies and then leave, and thats exactly what the law seems to support. It sounds stupid but when you are legally married, when you've knowingly created a LIFE together, why doesnt the law uphold some sort of attempt to keep a marriage and family intact first! That would make more sense. Edited October 22, 2019 by Rainbows Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Yes, I can easily flick the switch and hate him for what he's done/but more importantly 'doing'...sometimes I just cant believe it. If we didnt have children, especially this young, I wouldnt have put up with this, not for this long. But I would find it difficult to control my level of bitterness and anger. That's to be expected. He's acting like a child, expecting you to be the adult while he runs around like a teenager. It's not about hating him. It's about doing what's best for you and your children. His fmaily/friends may well take his side, but that's par for the course. I'm not trying to minimize everything you both have gone through, but for goodness sake, he's a father. he doesn't just get salve himself by treating you and your children badly. At some point, he has to start acting like an adult. He doesn't seem to want to do that, so it will fall squarely on your shoulders. Seeking legal advice is a great step. It will at least show you where you stand and give you the knowledge you need to make informed decisions. One more comment. In your shoes, I would start keeping a log of every time he blows off seeing the kids, treats them badly, etc. If you have any physical evidence of this, keep it for future use. You never know when it might be helpful, and at the very least, it can indicate just how unreliable he's become. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Find out what he legally needs to pay and ask the lawyer if there is any way he can demand money back from you if it is found he has been paying you too much. He may be in a hands off, non talking, no action kind of state at present but that doesn't mean he won't suddenly wake up and demand all sorts... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Rainbows Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 Oh yes ive got a very detailed log, and all the evidence. He's cancelled/not shown up a total of 26 times and seen us 23 times (in 9 months) puts it in perspective! Some of those times being just 3 hour visits. Elaine; Blimey I haddnt thought about that yes definitely dont want him trying that one on me, just to totally finish me off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 In your shoes, I would start keeping a log of every time he blows off seeing the kids, treats them badly, etc. If you have any physical evidence of this, keep it for future use. You never know when it might be helpful, and at the very least, it can indicate just how unreliable he's become. Very important. Better than a log are text messages or emails - save them, print them... hard evidence of his lack of engagement as a parent. Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 This may be an old idea but is there any possible legal way you can attack the housing agreement so as to get out from under that liability? Possibly plead hardship? Show up in court with your children clinging to you and bat your eyes at the judge? Ask your solicitor when you see him/her. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 why doesnt the law uphold some sort of attempt to keep a marriage and family intact first! That would make more sense. So you could be kept long-term in the same frustrating limbo you're in now ??? Rainbows, after 9 months of neglect, your focus should be on exercising your right to be free of him... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Your story reminds me of my childhood best friend who I adored. She decided in grade 8 (because middle school girls are brutal toward each other) that she didn’t want to be my friend anymore. She made new friends and together, they were really mean to me. When they weren’t mean, they ignored me. That was hard enough, what was harder was the fact that she would tell me she wanted to be my friend again and then - they would ignore me again... They prayed on my insecurities and used the fact that I valued that friendship to hurt me, time and time again. Mean. I always thought, my mother told me, that this too would pass and someday she would change her mind and be my friend again. She never did. Oh, how I dreamed of the day she would realize how hurtful she was being, apologize, and we could resume our friendship... My hope that she would be my friend only allowed them to abuse me more. It wasn’t until I finally decided that I didn’t want her to be my friend anymore and avoided her at all cost that it got better. I quit crying to my mom about how much I wanted her friendship and how mean these girls were to me. In other words, I quit volunteering to be their victim. I decided that if she didn’t want to be my friend anymore, I was going to make new friends and find something else to do... At some point, you will need to stop volunteering to be victimized by your husband. When you finally accept the reality that the husband you thought you knew is gone - the man standing before you now is not the same man you married - and decide that you deserve better for your own life, will you find the path ahead... But, you have to stop volunteering to be hurt by him - he is taking advantage of the fact that you love him and that you want to be a family with him... That’s not ok. A good man does not do this to he woman he loves, to his children. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 It sounds stupid but when you are legally married, when you've knowingly created a LIFE together, why doesnt the law uphold some sort of attempt to keep a marriage and family intact first! That would make more sense. This is magical thinking. The law can force a man to provide child support, it can not force a man to be a father. And, it can not force a man to be a husband. These are things he has to want for himself, and for his family. The fact that he does not seem to want these things anymore is the issue - and the law can do nothing about that. IF the law forced a family to stay intact when the people in that marriage clearly do not want to be together/can not treat each other with basic kindness and respect, can you imagine how miserable and abusive people would be to each other? That doesn’t make any sense to me at all... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Prudence V Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 It sounds stupid but when you are legally married, when you've knowingly created a LIFE together, why doesnt the law uphold some sort of attempt to keep a marriage and family intact first! That would make more sense. UK law does exactly that - it’s deeply invested in forcing people to remain married. The proposed “no fault divorce” legislation bill didn’t get passed because Bozo prorogued Parliament to chase his Brexit wet dream, so people are still forced to remain married for at least two years - five, if their spouse contests - unless they can prove infidelity or unreasonable behaviour. Luckily, you have both of those in the bag, so your divorce should be quick. Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 UK law does exactly that - it’s deeply invested in forcing people to remain married. - so people are still forced to remain married for at least two years - five, if their spouse contests - unless they can prove infidelity or unreasonable behaviour. I find that quite onerous. What influenced the legislators to do such a silly thing? It can't be for the children. How damaging must it be to spend two years with parents that hate each other. Under those conditions I would not want to marry. Is there a statistical trend in the UK of marriage decline or do people just get used to it? Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I find that quite onerous. What influenced the legislators to do such a silly thing? It can't be for the children. How damaging must it be to spend two years with parents that hate each other It's not as if they're they're forced to live together, couples split and lead separate lives, they can go NC and move on with their lives. It can also take less time if both parties agree, my friend's divorce took less than a year from start to finish. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I find that quite onerous. What influenced the legislators to do such a silly thing? It can't be for the children. How damaging must it be to spend two years with parents that hate each other. Under those conditions I would not want to marry. Is there a statistical trend in the UK of marriage decline or do people just get used to it? From what I understand, part of the reason for some of these laws is to prevent things like marriage just to get citizenship. It's not impossible to get a divorce without just cause such as infidelity or abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 From what I understand, part of the reason for some of these laws is to prevent things like marriage just to get citizenship. It's not impossible to get a divorce without just cause such as infidelity or abuse. I can see where that would be a deterrent and I'm not unsympathetic to that point of view. It just seems like whenever government tries to fix a problem it's always on the back of average people. Link to post Share on other sites
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