A cautionary tale for wayward spouses and those in affairs with them

[chillii]

Really though , it's just a pretty damn sad story whichever way you look at it isn't it.

And if he's putting a book out now , shame she didn't shoot him too tbh.

[somanymistakes]

Many places in the world (including some states here) under certain circumstances say you can. Many others see it as less then murder. A few years ago a woman shot and killed both her husband and his affair partner and served 6 months with 10 years probation.

 

In-the-moment generally gets less punishment than premeditated, yes, regardless of the reason.

 

Thirty or forty years ago, murdering someone over infidelity was an automatic downgrade from murder to manslaughter. Most of those laws have been revoked because people realised THAT WAS INSANE.

 

No, infidelity does not give you a magic out where you are no longer responsible for your actions, and it is incredibly immoral and irresponsible to suggest otherwise.

 

It's like the whole "gay panic" defense, which is mostly off the books now. "Oh, I saw GAYNESS and my rational mind was just immediately overwhelmed with the urge to kill!" No. If you are a murderous hothead who leaps to killing as your reaction to things you don't like, you should be in prison or at the very least in some sort of mental asylum getting treatment for your anger control issues.

 

Are there places where horrible laws are still on the books? Sure. There are places where you're legally allowed to beat someone to death for looking at you funny. That doesn't make it right.

[Artdeco]

That's my point. End result is people die. One has little to no consequences.

 

The law understands how infidelities can impact rational behavior and has adjusted accordingly. This ideal that we see from so many (cheaters here) that people should act a certain way in response to thier destructive behavior is overstated.

 

Quite frankly, there’s always a “reason” or a trigger if somebody kills another human being. Somebody gets “mad” at someone else, or feels bullied, or betrayed, or taken advantage of, or made fun of, or feels excluded, or left out, or replaced, or deprived of something, you name it....... you really think “the law understands how infidelity can impact rational behavior”, and a judge would act accordingly? Well then........ if the perpetrator has a good defense attorney, they can bring all kinds of reasoning to the table that can or cannot reduce the sentence, but I doubt it has anything to do with whether or not a murdered victim was a wayward spouse, or an affair partner, or a thief, or a bad investment banker, or a mean work colleague....... that’s just ridiculous talk

[DKT3]

No one is suggesting it's ok, moral or acceptable. What I'm saying is under the circumstances one simply cant expect someone to react in a reasonable manner.

 

These people having affairs and carelessly hurting people that result in this type of violence have created a platform in which the violence was possible, not only to themselves but endangering those around them including children.

[DKT3]

Quite frankly, there’s always a “reason” or a trigger if somebody kills another human being. Somebody gets “mad” at someone else, or feels bullied, or betrayed, or taken advantage of, or made fun of, or feels excluded, or left out, or replaced, or deprived of something, you name it....... you really think “the law understands how infidelity can impact rational behavior”, and a judge would act accordingly? Well then........ if the perpetrator has a good defense attorney, they can bring all kinds of reasoning to the table that can or cannot reduce the sentence, but I doubt it has anything to do with whether or not a murdered victim was a wayward spouse, or an affair partner, or a thief, or a bad investment banker, or a mean work colleague....... that’s just ridiculous talk

 

Yeah sure, again something that only a cheater would say.

 

I get it. When I was a teenager I did things that were morally and legally wrong and I rationalized it as not so bad. Today I see it differently.

 

And yes there is a significant difference in sentencing in cases where infidelity is involved.

[mark clemson]

To be fair voluntary manslaughter is still a very serious crime (at it should be).

 

According to a legal site I checked: "California law, for instance, requires either 3, 6 or 11 years in prison. In Florida, however, manslaughter is considered a second-degree felony, resulting in a fine of up to $10,000, up to 15 years in prison, or both."

 

It's ironic in the US that we have such broad sentencing that someone could spend 15 years for v. manslaughter while over in another state they're getting 4 years for homicide.

 

Oh well.

[mark clemson]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

 

Cheating doesn't kill people. People kill people.

[DKT3]

Our system is a mess. Minorities are sentenced to 30% more for the same crimes as whites and men are sentenced to 70% more for the same crimes as women. Just the other day I was reading about a double murder in the midwest involving two men and a woman. All three fired shots that resulted in two dying the men were both sentenced to 60 plus years and the woman received 12. How is that even possible?

[mark clemson]

Yeah, variation in state laws and discretionary sentencing. The judge probably thought she was cute (or possibly that the men had control over her through threat of violence). It's a real problem and probably not going away for a long time.

[somanymistakes]

All three fired shots that resulted in two dying the men were both sentenced to 60 plus years and the woman received 12. How is that even possible?

 

Sounds like they assume she wasn't acting of her own volition but they were just bullying her into it.

 

Which can be true, or can be sexism in action.

 

IIRC in the past it used to be the case that legally women couldn't be punished for being involved in crimes with their husbands because it was assumed that women had no choice but to obey and therefore nothing was their fault. Or in some cases even that anything a woman did herself must be her husband's responsibility/fault even if he had nothing to do with it! I'm not totally sure about this though, I might be getting mixed up. In any case, it's a very silly legal idea and no longer the case.

[oldtruck]

To be fair voluntary manslaughter is still a very serious crime (at it should be).

 

According to a legal site I checked: "California law, for instance, requires either 3, 6 or 11 years in prison. In Florida, however, manslaughter is considered a second-degree felony, resulting in a fine of up to $10,000, up to 15 years in prison, or both."

 

It's ironic in the US that we have such broad sentencing that someone could spend 15 years for v. manslaughter while over in another state they're getting 4 years for homicide.

 

Oh well.

 

Not ironic. States rights built into the Constitution.

1861 a war was started over State Rights Verses Federal Rights.

[oldtruck]

Our system is a mess. Minorities are sentenced to 30% more for the same crimes as whites and men are sentenced to 70% more for the same crimes as women. Just the other day I was reading about a double murder in the midwest involving two men and a woman. All three fired shots that resulted in two dying the men were both sentenced to 60 plus years and the woman received 12. How is that even possible?

 

Not knowing the facts, the woman was as already said, cute, and or

she used a small caliper pistol, say a .22 long. Possibly she is a size queen.

 

Numbers lie. The system only allows the best defense that money can buy. You are a

poor minority than you better not commit crimes.

Edited September 11, 2019 by oldtruck

[somanymistakes]

1861 a war was started over State Rights Verses Federal Rights.

 

... If you're going to bring up the Civil War it kind of sounds like you're agreeing that it's a terrible idea to allow states to have different laws, as that can lead to them trying to defend slavery!

[oldtruck]

... If you're going to bring up the Civil War it kind of sounds like you're agreeing that it's a terrible idea to allow states to have different laws, as that can lead to them trying to defend slavery!

 

Not agreeing. Founding Fathers thought states rights important enough to

include them and spell out the federal gov's limits.

 

One does not like the laws of their state they can always vote with their

feet and move.

[DKT3]

Not knowing the facts, the woman was as already said, cute, and or

she used a small caliper pistol, say a .22 long. Possibly she is a size queen.

 

Numbers lie. The system only allows the best defense that money can buy. You are a

poor minority than you better not commit crimes.

 

All things equal there is a gap In sentencing. Guilty is guilty and once found guilty minorities get more time then whites and men more time then women. That has nothing to do with how much you were able to pay a lawyer and everything to do with the judges that pass the sentence and laws that separate crimes by who are most likely to commit them. Example, crack is made by degrading cocaine yet powder (used primarily by whites) carry a much lower sentence for possession than crack(primarily used by minorities because it's cheap)

[somanymistakes]

One does not like the laws of their state they can always vote with their

feet and move.

 

Kind of hard for slaves to move.

 

Though they did it anyway when they could, and when they weren't kidnapped and dragged back.

 

On a much lesser scale that's slightly an issue today as there are one or two states where you're legally a minor at a much higher age than you would be anywhere else, and some people do have to run away and flee over a state line to safety from their families. Luckily these days if you actually make it over the line nobody's going to hire a bounty hunter to kidnap you.

[pepperbird]

This thread has taken a weird direction.

 

I am someone who was a BS. I also have little patience for the " he made me do it" defense. In my opinion, women get away with that far too often, and it actually demeans women. It's as if we can't possibly be expected to keep our emotions in check, because, after all, we are women and prone to being so fragile emotionally that this sort of situation is only to be expected.

 

With respect to the court system and how it views women, well, we have living proof up here that this judicial bias is alive and well. Karla Holmolka got off with just ten years for killing teenage girls along with her serial killer/rapist husband, while he got 25 to life, and will likely gain dangerous offender status.

 

Karla is now living under a new name, is married and has kids of her own. She was even allowed to volunteer at a school, but once the parents found out, she was asked not to return.

 

I remember finding out my husband cheated. I remember wanting nothing more than to throttle him and his former ow as well. If they had been right in front of me, I may well have done that. I may just have been angry and hurt enough to do it.

 

 

 

I would not, however, have undertaken a plan to kill them. That's not a crime of passion or a heat of the moment thing. It wold have required thought, consideration and a hundred chances along the way to stop myself.

 

 

 

Just my experience, but most BS are like me. Hurt, angry and we may lash out with words or even the legal system, but we don't physically harm anyone. I can understand maybe a slap in the face, but to outright attack someone and even kill them? I fail to see how there's any excuse for that.

[DKT3]

Not, it's not excusable. My point is more on the side of the WS.

 

Ever watch 48? My wife loves this show. It's a reality show that shows homicide detectives working a murder case for the first 48 hours. Every time I've seen that show you always have family members of the victim talking about what great people they were and how they didnt deserve it. One episode in particular it really bugged me listening to the family.

 

A man and his wife was murdered In their home with thier two small children in the back room. The children had walked around in their parents blood for hours before someone came over and discovered them. The parents were drug dealers and was making and selling drugs out of their home with thier children living there. Listening to the family talk about how they were great parents and never hurt anyone really stuck a nerve.

 

Murders rarely randomly happen, it happens but not nearly as often as people believe. People often put themselves in situations that make it possible. Acceptable or not the basic truth is when you do bad things you have no control over how people will respond.

 

Sure the OW should not have been killed, but what are the odds that she would have been killed if she wasnt messing with a married man? She made choices and those choices put her in a position that being murdered was possible.

 

I dont think people spend much time thinking about how thier bad behavior will impact others. If we did the world would be a better place to live in.

[pepperbird]

Sure the OW should not have been killed, but what are the odds that she would have been killed if she wasnt messing with a married man? She made choices and those choices put her in a position that being murdered was possible.

I dont think people spend much time thinking about how thier bad behavior will impact others. If we did the world would be a better place to live in.

 

Hod up a minute. You're skating very close to the "they deserved it" excuse. 'I don't care what you do, you dont deserve to be murdered. Somethings really are just plain wrong, and to me, this is one of them, and the ironic thing is that the "I couldn't help myself" excuse is so often used by those in affairs. I don't buy them for that, and i don;t buy them for a planned out murder either.

 

This said, I can't agree with you enough about how people should spend a lot more time thinking about the impact of their actions, and if it were up to me, "we" would be seen as being every bit as important as "me".

[oldtruck]

Kind of hard for slaves to move.

 

Though they did it anyway when they could, and when they weren't kidnapped and dragged back.

 

On a much lesser scale that's slightly an issue today as there are one or two states where you're legally a minor at a much higher age than you would be anywhere else, and some people do have to run away and flee over a state line to safety from their families. Luckily these days if you actually make it over the line nobody's going to hire a bounty hunter to kidnap you.

 

Slaves?

What slaves?

I was never talking about slavery.

[oldtruck]

Not, it's not excusable. My point is more on the side of the WS.

 

Ever watch 48? My wife loves this show. It's a reality show that shows homicide detectives working a murder case for the first 48 hours. Every time I've seen that show you always have family members of the victim talking about what great people they were and how they didnt deserve it. One episode in particular it really bugged me listening to the family.

 

A man and his wife was murdered In their home with thier two small children in the back room. The children had walked around in their parents blood for hours before someone came over and discovered them. The parents were drug dealers and was making and selling drugs out of their home with thier children living there. Listening to the family talk about how they were great parents and never hurt anyone really stuck a nerve.

 

Murders rarely randomly happen, it happens but not nearly as often as people believe. People often put themselves in situations that make it possible. Acceptable or not the basic truth is when you do bad things you have no control over how people will respond.

 

Sure the OW should not have been killed, but what are the odds that she would have been killed if she wasnt messing with a married man? She made choices and those choices put her in a position that being murdered was possible.

 

I dont think people spend much time thinking about how thier bad behavior will impact others. If we did the world would be a better place to live in.

 

Typical WS and AP logic.

 

I won't get caught so there never will be any consequences for me to face.

Sometimes the WS and AP are lucky. Sometimes not.

This AP was definitely a not lucky.

[oldtruck]

Hod up a minute. You're skating very close to the "they deserved it" excuse. 'I don't care what you do, you dont deserve to be murdered. Somethings really are just plain wrong, and to me, this is one of them, and the ironic thing is that the "I couldn't help myself" excuse is so often used by those in affairs. I don't buy them for that, and i don;t buy them for a planned out murder either.

 

This said, I can't agree with you enough about how people should spend a lot more time thinking about the impact of their actions, and if it were up to me, "we" would be seen as being every bit as important as "me".

 

Literature, films, historical accounts of the BH taking the OM's life.

I can see a BH wanting the OM dead. The I would not urinate on the OM

even if he was on fire.

 

I am against the death penalty. It is just legalized murder. It is not a

deterrent, and once you say off with his head you cannot put it back

on if later proved innocent.

 

The old temporary insanity defense. Flawed we will never know as with a

lie detector test.

 

Or the BH thought he saw it as the OM raping his WW because he thought

she would never be the one to cheat.

 

Though how do we know if he knew his WW was going to bang the OM

that day and he snug up on them to give the OM a headjob with a bullet?

[DKT3]

Hod up a minute. You're skating very close to the "they deserved it" excuse. 'I don't care what you do, you dont deserve to be murdered.

 

No that isn't what I'm saying at all, I'm saying that people put themselves in bad situations because of bad and selfish behavior. Once you've done so you cant control how people react to it.

 

I do disagree with "nothing you can do to deserve " I'm liberal but not that liberal. I can think of things that people could do that would push almost everyone to that point. I dont think infidelity is one of those things. There is always someone else out there. No one need to die because of sex or marital betrayal.

Edited September 12, 2019 by DKT3

[somanymistakes]

I'm saying that people put themselves in bad situations because of bad and selfish behavior. Once you've done so you cant control how people react to it.

 

The problem with this is that you can't control how people react period.

 

Avoiding all bad and selfish behavior does not mean that you never end up in a bad situation. Avoiding all bad and selfish behavior does not mean that no one will ever try to attack or kill you.

 

If you're dating someone who is crazy jealous, they may decide to kill you at any time regardless of whether you were cheating or not. Even years later after you've broken up. This happens.

 

If you're dating someone with a hairtrigger temper, or who sleeps with a loaded gun, you may be killed for no reason whatsoever just because of a split-second reaction.

 

Deciding to cheat is an unwise decision, but dating a jealous person in the first place is even less wise. Dating someone with jealousy issues is always a game of Russian Roulette, it's just a question of exactly how many empty chambers there are.

 

That still doesn't make it your fault if your jealous partner murders you, murder is still wrong. But the first step is never date anyone jealous.

 

... And then you have the crazy stalkers who murder you out of jealousy because you ddin't date them, so I guess the zeroth step is "never be noticed by anyone".

 

Much safer that way.

[DKT3]

Typical of our society today, anything to not accept responsibility.

 

Do things happen in life to us that we have no control over? Absolutely. However screwing around with someone else's spouse isnt one. Doing f--ed up selfish stuff and having to face consequences isn't akin so having some random act of violence acted out upon you.