A cautionary tale for wayward spouses and those in affairs with them

[somanymistakes]

Typical of our society today, anything to not accept responsibility.

 

Wait, so are you changing your mind and saying that cheaters are responsible for being murdered?

[DKT3]

Dont really get why this concept seems hard to grasp. I'm saying that cheaters who have violence acted out on them set the stage and made it possible by cheating. As I asked before what are the odds that the BW would have murdered the OW had she not been sleeping with her husband. Seems that a couple of you keep avoiding that and keep claiming that I'm saying she deserved it. Again sex and cheating doesn't equate murder in my mind. But she does hold some responsibility for the outcome. Just because something bad happens to someone doing bad it doesn't clear them of responsibility

 

How many people are outraged when you hear a drug dealer was murdered. Is thier life not worth as much? I think looking through a similar lens makes it hard to accept that we do in fact hold responsibility for our actions even when the consequences are fatal. It's not about if it is or isn't more then one deserves for the wrongdoing it's about creating the platform.

[oldtruck]

Wait, so are you changing your mind and saying that cheaters are responsible for being murdered?

 

Well when an OM decides to bang a WW there is no guarantee that the

BH catches them in the act, that the BH will not do a frontal lobotomy with a

bullet on the OM's brain.

 

OM put himself in the situation where some BH's in the past have caught the

OM banging his WW and the BH shoots the OM dead.

 

Does not make it right. Though no one forced the OM to put himself

in a situation where a BH might shoot him.

 

If the OM would of stayed in his own bed, banging his own wife,

he would be alive to bang his wife another day.

 

The OM did not deserve to die. Though I would not feel bad for the OM

either. Just indifference.

[oldtruck]

Dont really get why this concept seems hard to grasp. I'm saying that cheaters who have violence acted out on them set the stage and made it possible by cheating. As I asked before what are the odds that the BW would have murdered the OW had she not been sleeping with her husband. Seems that a couple of you keep avoiding that and keep claiming that I'm saying she deserved it. Again sex and cheating doesn't equate murder in my mind. But she does hold some responsibility for the outcome. Just because something bad happens to someone doing bad it doesn't clear them of responsibility

 

How many people are outraged when you hear a drug dealer was murdered. Is thier life not worth as much? I think looking through a similar lens makes it hard to accept that we do in fact hold responsibility for our actions even when the consequences are fatal. It's not about if it is or isn't more then one deserves for the wrongdoing it's about creating the platform.

 

I never heard outrage when a drug dealer was murdered.

I never heard outrage when a mafia boss in NY was murdered.

 

As to the drug dealer being murdered. Well after the amount of murders

a dealer committed, ordered committed, deaths from drug overdoses.

 

How about this view: maybe he should of been murdered many years

ago because of all the deaths attributes to him. Many people would be

alive today.

[somanymistakes]

I think looking through a similar lens makes it hard to accept that we do in fact hold responsibility for our actions even when the consequences are fatal. It's not about if it is or isn't more then one deserves for the wrongdoing it's about creating the platform.

 

Right. So, there's a story in the news at the moment about a father who threw his baby son off a bridge, killing it.

 

Would you agree that the mother holds responsibility for this outcome because she chose to have a baby with this man?

 

Or would you say no, that's appalling, the fault lies entirely in the hands of a man who chose to kill a child in order to punish the mother?

[BluEyeL]

No, I don't think that this woman was justified in what she did. A lot of people are being cheated on, without going nuts like that. She got serious mental issues and that is tragic, but it's really not the husband's fault, just her own fault.

 

Sorry, I know people hate cheaters, and rightfully so but being cheated on is not an excuse for violence of this type. I say all of this as someone who has been cheated on, after a similar history, met young love of my life, proclamations of how we can't live without each other yada yada yada Then I"m approaching 40 and I get dumped. Not for a second I thought to murder anyone.

 

And what's this thing about blaming the other woman? I never blamed the other wom(e)n. Why didn't she kill him if she was so devastated, why her? The guy got bored of his marriage and of his wife and would have cheated with somoene anyway if that's what he wanted.

 

The fact that the husband and his mistress weren't ethical people, or even good people doesn't justify anything like that and I don't think this is a "cautionary tale". This is a story of a woman who unfortunately couldn't deal with life's struggles and went literally nuts and murderous.

 

A life well lived is indeed the best revenge one can have in this situation. She should have gone to therapy, get some meds if she needed them and I don't know....become a CEO, marry a millionare? Something other than murder-suicide.

[oldtruck]

Right. So, there's a story in the news at the moment about a father who threw his baby son off a bridge, killing it.

 

Would you agree that the mother holds responsibility for this outcome because she chose to have a baby with this man?

 

Or would you say no, that's appalling, the fault lies entirely in the hands of a man who chose to kill a child in order to punish the mother?

 

What?

 

This is the worlds longest reach to make faulty logic work.

[DKT3]

Right. So, there's a story in the news at the moment about a father who threw his baby son off a bridge, killing it.

 

Would you agree that the mother holds responsibility for this outcome because she chose to have a baby with this man?

 

Or would you say no, that's appalling, the fault lies entirely in the hands of a man who chose to kill a child in order to punish the mother?

 

Apples and oranges, unless she knew the guy was off.

[pepperbird]

I can understand being that angry, but I just can't condone what she did. She had alternatives for dealing with her pain and anger. She chose this one.

[Shining One]

Why didn't she kill him if she was so devastated, why her?

The impression I got from her last messages, specifically the "I hope you never find happiness" one, was that Jennair wanted Mark to suffer. Killing him would not serve that purpose. Killing Meredith, his source of happiness, would.

[mark clemson]

Right. So, there's a story in the news at the moment about a father who threw his baby son off a bridge, killing it.

 

Would you agree that the mother holds responsibility for this outcome because she chose to have a baby with this man?

 

Or would you say no, that's appalling, the fault lies entirely in the hands of a man who chose to kill a child in order to punish the mother?

 

She "created the platform", much like a cheater did? She did not know how the person would react, just like the WS didn't. That is an extension of the same logic, although it wasn't a negative act. There are probably subtle differences that may be important. I'm not seeing them yet, but they are likely there.

 

So I guess now we can't have children anymore either since someone might kill them? And of course by buying a gun I'm "creating a platform" that allows me to kill someone if I really feel I need to. Or a platform for my kid to accidentally kill themselves or an innocent friend with it? But what if he accidentally hit the friend in the head with the baseball bat I got for his birthday instead?

 

I think what this thread is butting up against is the arbitrariness of life and lack of control over consequences and unforeseen circumstances that we all have to deal with. One never actually knows what will happen from good or bad (although I agree probabilities for trouble are probably higher with bad and with certain kinds of "good"). That brand new car you get your kid at 18 could end up being their demise.

 

OT, your point about states' rights is completely true and in line with the FF's intent. However, I can't help but wonder if they were around today and could see what the country they founded became and saw: in one state a murderer getting 20 years, in another getting life, in another plea bargaining to a lesser charge and getting 4, and in another getting executed and not question how all of these people are still "Americans" and "equal under law".

 

Maybe it'd be fine with some of them, but I somehow doubt it would be for all of them. I could certainly be wrong.

[somanymistakes]

Apples and oranges, unless she knew the guy was off.

 

And you'd have to know your spouse was 'off' to expect them to resort to murder out of jealousy, is my point.

 

I'm not honestly suggesting people should be blamed for dating crazy partners, obviously. I do think it's worth pointing out as a risk, that maybe you should evaluate whether a new partner is SANE before you get too involved with them, because if it turns out that you've just dated a psycho, then even after you break up with them, they may show up later and murder you in a jealous rage.

 

So the wise thing to do is to be a bit cautious.

 

But when a man decides to cut his wife up, put her in a suitcase, and light it on fire, I'm not blaming her for that.

[DKT3]

So when a woman kills her abusive husband would you say oh he is not responsible for any of it, how was he supposed to know that beating her would result in her killing him. Or would you say he holds some responsibility in the events?

 

There is no difference.

[mark clemson]

My take FWIW would be that he increased the probability she would eventually kill him. Technically, he also did that by marrying her.

 

That second part would hold true for a non-abusive spouse as well. Did you ever hear what happened to the actor Phil Hartman, as one of no doubt many examples in the world?

 

To be fair, and to your point, on average the abusive husband is presumably increasing that probability a lot more by abusing than the non-abusive one by acting like a normal husband. In most cases at least.

[FMW]

My "rule" is that killing someone is only ever justified if it's self defense or defense of someone else in immediate danger.

 

If someone cheats on you, divorce them. If you feel vindictive then go after all the money and property.

 

I can often see shades of gray, but on this subject there are none for me. It doesn't matter what someone does (with the exception of my first paragraph), I can't fathom even thinking of murder.

 

The wife was clearly mentally unbalanced. Plenty of people (including me) have been cheated on by their spouses and would never in a million years have murder even cross their mind as an option.

 

As I have sometimes thought before, at least here on LS, it seems some are more wiling to forgive a murderer than an unfaithful spouse.

[DKT3]

Many people would also never cheat...some well

 

Not everyone is the same, not everyone has the same ability to deal with situations in the same manner.

 

Sad but very real FACT is people can be push to do things that they would have not otherwise done.

 

We hear cheaters use this excuse all the time.

 

My view is NOT that what happened was ok. It's not. My point is and cant really be disputed is had she not(a married woman herself) been messing around with another womans husband she would be alive today. Why it's so hard for people here to admit is odd...well not really since half the people here have done the same.

[FMW]

We hear cheaters use this excuse all the time

 

And they are immediately and vociferously called out on it.

 

We all understand cheating is bad, even those of us wearing the scarlet letter. But for me, murder is certainly not a more understandable sin.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Finding my way

[DKT3]

Of course murder is worse then infidelity.

 

Of course the BW shouldn't have murdered her, that goes without needing to repeat over and over again. There are also things that shouldn't have happened that preceded the murder. No need to deflect from that and make it seem like this is some shocking and unheard of crime. It happens all the time just like this. I can name 10-15 cases from the past decade were the BW has killed the a combination of MM and/or OW or OW has killed MM and/or BW.

 

NFL great Steve McNair was murdered by his OW when he told her he was going to work on his marriage, ow also committed suicide. Lisa Brown kidnapped and killed former NFL player Buster Bennetts wife before killing herself. Just a few examples.

[Prudence V]

My point is and cant really be disputed is had she not(a married woman herself) been messing around with another womans husband she would be alive today.

 

Except that, as others have shown, there was no guarantee of that. The BW clearly had mental health issues. It’s possible that, had she even suspected her H (and, had he been entirely innocent) she might still have acted out as she did. There are countless examples of jealous spouses doing such, where the spouse they suspected was in fact innocent.

[elaine567]

I am actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.

 

The AP steamrolls into a marriage and effectively declares war on the BS.

The BS however is often too upset to fight back... otherwise why wouldn't they want to "eliminate" the intruder?

Breaking up a marriage is an act of aggression, if someone is sufficiently fired up at the loss of their life as they knew it, then it seems to me not an unsurprising motive for murder.

[Springsummer]

The fact that the husband and his mistress weren't ethical people, or even good people doesn't justify anything like that and I don't think this is a "cautionary tale". This is a story of a woman who unfortunately couldn't deal with life's struggles and went literally nuts and murderous.

 

A life well lived is indeed the best revenge one can have in this situation. She should have gone to therapy, get some meds if she needed them and I don't know....become a CEO, marry a millionare? Something other than murder-suicide.

 

wow, you are so strong and wise. your ex hubby is the loser by dumping you.

 

even though I have zero experience remotely related to this sort of thing, but I think you are totally right on this.

Edited September 14, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[Springsummer]

I am actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.

 

The AP steamrolls into a marriage and effectively declares war on the BS.

The BS however is often too upset to fight back... otherwise why wouldn't they want to "eliminate" the intruder?

Breaking up a marriage is an act of aggression, if someone is sufficiently fired up at the loss of their life as they knew it, then it seems to me not an unsurprising motive for murder.

 

The worst enemy is always ourselves.

 

why do you make your life depends on another? The universe of your life? there are better things to do and live than with someone who no longer loves you. A heart wants what it wants, no matter how wrong it is.

 

Murder is mutually destructive. Is it worth it to destroy one's life over a worthless BS?

 

This is the cautionary tale for me: be strong and never depends my life on someone else in any shape or form, be it financially or emotionally.

 

In Buddhism that's called attachment and it's the root cause of all of our sufferings? I know how it feels. Sometimes I feel like I can't live without getting one particular person. but it's all in my head. the feeling will pass. life goes on. All I need to do is to change focus and perspective.

 

Life is damn hard. Strong is the keyword.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

No, I don't think that this woman was justified in what she did. A lot of people are being cheated on, without going nuts like that. She got serious mental issues and that is tragic, but it's really not the husband's fault, just her own fault.

 

Sorry, I know people hate cheaters, and rightfully so but being cheated on is not an excuse for violence of this type. I say all of this as someone who has been cheated on, after a similar history, met young love of my life, proclamations of how we can't live without each other yada yada yada Then I"m approaching 40 and I get dumped. Not for a second I thought to murder anyone.

 

And what's this thing about blaming the other woman? I never blamed the other wom(e)n. Why didn't she kill him if she was so devastated, why her? The guy got bored of his marriage and of his wife and would have cheated with somoene anyway if that's what he wanted.

 

The fact that the husband and his mistress weren't ethical people, or even good people doesn't justify anything like that and I don't think this is a "cautionary tale". This is a story of a woman who unfortunately couldn't deal with life's struggles and went literally nuts and murderous.

 

A life well lived is indeed the best revenge one can have in this situation. She should have gone to therapy, get some meds if she needed them and I don't know....become a CEO, marry a millionare? Something other than murder-suicide.

 

Agree. I've been there too and the only harm I considered doing was to myself. (Out of depression)

 

I'm currently watching a trial of a case I've become obsessed with since 2013....the husband and wife BOTH killed the mistress (wife was already convicted of kidnapping, husband's retrial is now....first was hung jury....no body found so murder charge was dropped.....for now....until they find the body, which hopefully they will someday). The betrayed wife was the driving force behind the kidnapping/murder.....and it was months after the affair was over!! (She may have been pregnant though) It's just insane to me anyone would do that.

 

But it goes to show you....if you are going to become involved with a married person, you can't underestimate the betrayed spouse because you never know their level of crazy! It's just best to decide NOT to do it I would think lol.

[elaine567]

Murder is mutually destructive. Is it worth it to destroy one's life over a worthless BS?

The BS is worthless?

I guess a mistake on your part.

 

The problem with marriages, especially long ones is that is not as simple as being about attachment to the other person, it is about Investment.

Investment of years of one's life, money, effort, love. It is about dreams, it is about homes, money, security (physical and financial), kids, family, status...

All aspects of a person's world can be ripped apart and the older one is the less time there is to recover...

[fredwhite]

No, I don't think that this woman was justified in what she did. A lot of people are being cheated on, without going nuts like that. She got serious mental issues and that is tragic, but it's really not the husband's fault, just her own fault.

 

Sorry, I know people hate cheaters, and rightfully so but being cheated on is not an excuse for violence of this type. I say all of this as someone who has been cheated on, after a similar history, met young love of my life, proclamations of how we can't live without each other yada yada yada Then I"m approaching 40 and I get dumped. Not for a second I thought to murder anyone.

 

And what's this thing about blaming the other woman? I never blamed the other wom(e)n. Why didn't she kill him if she was so devastated, why her? The guy got bored of his marriage and of his wife and would have cheated with somoene anyway if that's what he wanted.

 

The fact that the husband and his mistress weren't ethical people, or even good people doesn't justify anything like that and I don't think this is a "cautionary tale". This is a story of a woman who unfortunately couldn't deal with life's struggles and went literally nuts and murderous.

 

A life well lived is indeed the best revenge one can have in this situation. She should have gone to therapy, get some meds if she needed them and I don't know....become a CEO, marry a millionare? Something other than murder-suicide.

 

Awesome post!

 

This is perhaps a cautionary story to not marry someone (man or woman) who is extremely emotionally unstable, who cannot support oneself financially, or who cannot handle life’s adversity.

 

Perhaps the guy made a wise decision to leave her.

Edited September 14, 2019 by fredwhite