Economic Mismatches in the Marriage Market

[Shining One]

This isn't exactly a new phenomenon. What did high class women do when a significant portion of high class men were wiped out in war? Sure, some chose to remain unmarried, but many chose to pair up with men of lower social standing.

[oldtruck]

This isn't exactly a new phenomenon. What did high class women do when a significant portion of high class men were wiped out in war? Sure, some chose to remain unmarried, but many chose to pair up with men of lower social standing.

 

Men and women have always "settled" for the best that they could get.

This does not mean they were not happy, or pleased with their decision

to marry. It is called facing reality.

 

Example every woman wants George Clooney. Only one got him.

Or every man back in the day wanted Sophia Loren.

[thefooloftheyear]

People could start by getting off their high horse about a college education being the bees knees. They are now so common that they no longer guarantee a great income. A guy who has a good solid trade behind him (plumber, builder, electrician) earns well and will never be out of work.

 

Exactly...

 

With the current demand for trades in this country, anyone with some skill and determination can be making over 100K after a relatively short amount of time...And like you stated...ALWAYS work...Additionally, they can earn a lot of bonus cash on the side doing side projects for people.. Many of these jobs also are still union based...They have all the perks that the union provides as well..

 

Add in the fact that a young person choosing this path isn't saddled with a mountain of student loan debt and its a pretty good option, really...

 

There just needs to be a different mindset, as you state...Right now its still looked upon as a knock on a person if they don't have the degree...The crazy part is I know people from all walks of life...Some of the smartest people I know work with their hands in trades and such, and some of the biggest morons work white collar positions...Doesn't mean the opposite cant be true, but the thinking that a man/women that chooses that path does so because they are somehow flawed or inferior is just crazy...

 

TFY

[Gretchen12]

People could start by getting off their high horse about a college education being the bees knees. They are now so common that they no longer guarantee a great income. A guy who has a good solid trade behind him (plumber, builder, electrician) earns well and will never be out of work.

 

Actually I see no difference between a college education and a trade education. The point is to learn to do something. You can learn physics or learn plumbing. Either way, you choose a field and specialize so you can work in that field. In some colleges you can major in hospitality (I think that's hotel services), auto mechanics studies and many other non traditional college majors.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Spot on. This has been my experience and has only gotten worse as I got older. This is why I opted out of the dating game. I am not able to settle for less, the man has to have at least college education and comparable income. Out of the needle in a haystack few that are single and meet this criteria, all want 20 year olds.

 

I found my perfect match in my boy cat

[stillafool]

A colleague of mine has a daughter in her 20's about to marry a guy. She's college educated now earning a good salary in high tech. He never went to college (not sure if he had ged or not), and only works some part time mcdonalds type jobs. He lives off of her, plays video games, doesn't want to go back to school.

Her father (my colleague) thinks the guy is not good enough for his daughter. But I know a lot of men on this forum are criticizing women for being too picky, that women should not think any man is not good enough. Anyway there's nothing her father can do. What I don't know is whether she wants to be the breadwinner and have a househusband, or she is just accepting it because she is emotionally attached.

 

I have two friends who's daughters are college educated and have their careers on track. One is dating a drug dealer and the other one is dating a guy that lives with his parents and plays video games all day. Why some young women don't want better for themselves is beyond me.

[elaine567]

I have two friends who's daughters are college educated and have their careers on track. One is dating a drug dealer and the other one is dating a guy that lives with his parents and plays video games all day. Why some young women don't want better for themselves is beyond me.

 

It's "love"...

The downfall of so many women...

[Mr.Me]

Project "men" is real life for many.

[mark clemson]

I have two friends who's daughters are college educated and have their careers on track. One is dating a drug dealer and the other one is dating a guy that lives with his parents and plays video games all day. Why some young women don't want better for themselves is beyond me.

 

 

Playing devil's advocate for a minute here -

 

The drug dealer may, for better or worse, be pulling in excellent money.

 

The gamer may as well or be seen as having prospects; people can make a real living these days if they are good or somehow manage to work up a following on Twitch or similar.

 

So, the guys here may be more "alpha"/desirable than that it would appear at first glance. If the available choices are between a video game player and a retail clerk, what's a girl to do?

 

I think any woman with common sense would avoid a drug dealer, but common sense doesn't fully kick in until 25ish for many (and for some it never does). If she's a drug user herself, well - fringe benefits (unfortunately).

 

I was at a meetup some time ago and saw a very attractive young woman with a slimy looking BF. The way they were acting was a bit "off" and I eventually realized he was almost certainly her drug dealer.

[Woggle]

Criminals have never had an issue getting women. I grew up around them even thought I was clean and they never struggled. Some gamers on youtube pull in more money than doctors. I am not kidding about that.

[thefooloftheyear]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute here -

 

The drug dealer may, for better or worse, be pulling in excellent money.

 

The gamer may as well or be seen as having prospects; people can make a real living these days if they are good or somehow manage to work up a following on Twitch or similar.

 

So, the guys here may be more "alpha"/desirable than that it would appear at first glance. If the available choices are between a video game player and a retail clerk, what's a girl to do?

 

I think any woman with common sense would avoid a drug dealer, but common sense doesn't fully kick in until 25ish for many (and for some it never does). If she's a drug user herself, well - fringe benefits (unfortunately).

 

I was at a meetup some time ago and saw a very attractive young woman with a slimy looking BF. The way they were acting was a bit "off" and I eventually realized he was almost certainly her drug dealer.

 

 

Nah....I don't know about the dirty pajama wearing, basement dweller type, but for the edgy type of bad boy, it's usually because they are hotter/better physique than the average shlub and some women think they can "fix" these guys...

 

But there are also women out there(especially now), where they don't have to settle for some dad bod with a Dilbert job....They have their own money and can now go for the 'toy"...

 

TFY

[basil67]

Yes Gretchen. Whether it be university or trade school, the end goal is to find a good job that you're suited for and work hard.

[TheFinalWord]

People could start by getting off their high horse about a college education being the bees knees. They are now so common that they no longer guarantee a great income. A guy who has a good solid trade behind him (plumber, builder, electrician) earns well and will never be out of work.

 

It's not about the degree in and of itself, it's what it represents.

 

Nothing is a guarantee, but on average college grads do make more. The reason is because most college degrees train a person to think critically and creatively to solve problems. In the tech era, those skills cannot be easily replaced or outsourced. You could argue AI might someday, and you hear rumors about universal income because of this, but realistically, automatic driving semis will be mainstream putting truckers out of work, far before the university-trained scientist, nurse, etc. will be replaced by automation.

 

But I do agree a degree in lesbian dance theory doesn't have much practical value. Let's face reality though, status symbols do matter in society and they always will. Beauty, wealth, education, fame, etc. are all factors that will matter in the sexual market place. Generally speaking, factors that speak to ability to provide, like an education, wealth, are going to be attractive to most women on the whole. And women tend to want men that are able to provide from them, and they seek protection and stability from a man. It's just biological.

 

A solid trade is a good career track, that is for sure. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, if a woman earns more than the man, that is counter to our biological drives and it will bother most at the end of the day. Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking it's true.

Edited September 10, 2019 by TheFinalWord

[beatcuff]

... But, if a woman earns more than the man, that is counter to our biological drives and it will bother most at the end of the day...

i was in high school in the early 80's. i remember too many times the 'muscle' would make their presence known. and all you would hear from the nerds is: 'someday you will be working for me' (a/k/a bill gates et al). and boy was that true --- we moved at lightning speed from a manufacturing and labor intensive (muscle/male dominated) economy to technology based (brain/gender neutral). talent is now based on 'what you know' and if you can apply it. so the world has changed and if you don't adapt you will be left behind.

 

i noticed in my social circles is that men still make more but if the wife earns far less those men complain more about money.

[basil67]

The Final Word, where I live we have a surplus of grads and a shortage of tradesmen. My hubby and his best mate are IT infrastructure design and senior level electrical trade respectfully. They both earn a similar wage, well into three figures. My nephews are also going into electrical trades and will start on a similar wage to my daughter when she graduates uni.

 

You know, a lot of the guys here would argue that the electrician’s practical skills are more useful in the real world.

 

Status symbols may matter to some, but I find them pretentious.

[thefooloftheyear]

 

You know, a lot of the guys here would argue that the electrician’s practical skills are more useful in the real world.

 

 

It's even more than that...

 

Most of the blue collar guys I know are all millionaires at this point...Sure, a lot of us did it by supplementing income/wealth with investment properties and such...and have owned/operated businesses for years...Im not saying that there aren't lifelong grunts that never get beyond that of a basic laborer, but the opportunity sure exists...

 

Additionally, and this is big...Most of the people who are tradesmen, mechanics and such don't pay what the average white collar person does for a variety of things(many times don't actually "pay" at all.....Aside from being capable to handle most of life's annoyances like a leaking roof or a transmission failure (which cost regular folks thousands ) they all have "networks" for stuff like construction, auto / truck repair, landscaping/excavating and the such..One hand washes the other, as they say...

 

Ive been alive for more than half a century now...Ive never actually "called someone in" for anything...If I couldn't do it myself, which is rare, I have someone that I can call to get it done for a fraction of what it should cost, my only payback being able to help them when they need...Its a great system..

 

These are the practical aspects, as you say....The peace of mind alone is worth a fortune as these things will come up for anyone living a normal adult life...

 

TFY

[oldtruck]

It's not about the degree in and of itself, it's what it represents.

 

Nothing is a guarantee, but on average college grads do make more. The reason is because most college degrees train a person to think critically and creatively to solve problems. In the tech era, those skills cannot be easily replaced or outsourced. You could argue AI might someday, and you hear rumors about universal income because of this, but realistically, automatic driving semis will be mainstream putting truckers out of work, far before the university-trained scientist, nurse, etc. will be replaced by automation.

 

But I do agree a degree in lesbian dance theory doesn't have much practical value. Let's face reality though, status symbols do matter in society and they always will. Beauty, wealth, education, fame, etc. are all factors that will matter in the sexual market place. Generally speaking, factors that speak to ability to provide, like an education, wealth, are going to be attractive to most women on the whole. And women tend to want men that are able to provide from them, and they seek protection and stability from a man. It's just biological.

 

A solid trade is a good career track, that is for sure. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, if a woman earns more than the man, that is counter to our biological drives and it will bother most at the end of the day. Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking it's true.

 

Not calling you a liar when I say this.

 

Numbers do not lie. Though liars use numbers to lie.

 

On average college grads earn more.

 

Yes because the most of the jobs that pay over $150,000 a year to

millions a year you can not get unless you have a degree.

 

Such high salaries for these college grads will pull up the average for

all of the college grads that fail to earn an above middle class income.

 

Also be a plumber, chef, electrician, auto mechanic construction,

does not translate to a high income. It is the business owners that make

the high incomes off of these employees.

 

I do not know how much union jobs are in the middle of the country.

Though in a large city as New York. Those jobs are few and hard to get

unless you have a relative that is already in the union.

[elaine567]

It's not just about money or job security or basic intelligence, it is about mindset and being compatible and having things in common.

Generalisation, yes, but many "educated" people have little in common with "tradespeople" and vice versa, that is where the idea of a happy mixing tends to come undone, if not immediately in a relationship, then later.

Different values, politics, opinions, culture, conversations, life experiences... it can be like speaking a different language..

[mark clemson]

I think it's true that economically many plumbers, electricians, etc. do just fine. Some "nerds" are making much more in tech or medicine, but many are not in science, education, or regular desk jobs. Big Bang Theory highlighted just that with the women making more e.g. in pharmaceutical sales then the men in academia.

 

The tradesmen jobs are, I believed, currently perceived as lower status despite holding up well in dollar terms. I think this makes a difference. Right now a guy who fixes pipes and toilets, or replaces wiring is perceived as "working class" vice a guy with a desk job who is perceived as "middle class" and so having better prospects. I think this is often merely perception - desk job guy may actually be making less than the electrician and definitely have worse job security.

[Eternal Sunshine]

It's about values. Most tradesmen I know keep saying how education is a waste of time and are constantly putting it down. I have a PhD and very much believe in the value of education. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning, not just a shortcut to earning XXX amount of dollars with minimum effort and time. We have nothing in common.

[Gaeta]

The Final Word, where I live we have a surplus of grads and a shortage of tradesmen. My hubby and his best mate are IT infrastructure design and senior level electrical trade respectfully. They both earn a similar wage, well into three figures. My nephews are also going into electrical trades and will start on a similar wage to my daughter when she graduates uni.

 

You know, a lot of the guys here would argue that the electrician’s practical skills are more useful in the real world.

 

Status symbols may matter to some, but I find them pretentious.

 

 

A young lawyer out of University with years of study makes 35-40K. My daughter, a welder out of an 18 month course makes 65K. I am surrounded in my family by electricians $85/h, truck drivers 90K/Year, plumber $120/h and will charge you 4 hours just to sit in his truck to get to you. All these people are intelligent, articulate, take interest in economy, politics, environment, all have smart investments and a diversified port-folio.

[Gaeta]

It's about values. Most tradesmen I know keep saying how education is a waste of time and are constantly putting it down. I have a PhD and very much believe in the value of education. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning, not just a shortcut to earning XXX amount of dollars with minimum effort and time. We have nothing in common.

 

 

Values? You think a man that built his own electrical company, hires 40-50 people, has the economy go round, has no value or is not a value to society?

[basil67]

It's about values. Most tradesmen I know keep saying how education is a waste of time and are constantly putting it down. I have a PhD and very much believe in the value of education. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning, not just a shortcut to earning XXX amount of dollars with minimum effort and time. We have nothing in common.

 

OMG that's such a snobby thing to say.

 

During a recent build we did, the apprentice builder had recently graduated high school with a 99/100 ranking for university. In case this doesn't translate, this demonstrates an enormous commitment to education and learning. With this mark, he could have had access to any degree at any university. But he wants to work with his hands. But at a glance you'd peg him as a an uneducated git.

 

If you can't relate to someone who's not highly educated, how do you manage conversations with the hoi polloi at parties?

[basil67]

On average college grads earn more.

 

Yes because the most of the jobs that pay over $150,000 a year to

millions a year you can not get unless you have a degree.

 

It's this attitude which has left Australia with a surplus of grads who struggle for a limited amount of jobs and tradesmen who can earn a three figure salary. Supply and demand, Old Truck. Some of the 50 something guys I know are now senior, off the tools and have eye wateringly high salaries. We are at the stage of having to look at immigrants to fill our trades shortage.

[Gaeta]

It's this attitude which has left Australia with a surplus of grads who struggle for a limited amount of jobs and tradesmen who can earn a three figure salary. Supply and demand, Old Truck. Some of the 50 something guys I know are now senior, off the tools and have eye wateringly high salaries. We are at the stage of having to look at immigrants to fill our trades shortage.

 

 

Same with my country. For generations we were pushed to go to University and now we don't have enough tradesmen, industries cannot expend, restaurants are closing for lack of Chefs it's practically impossible to find a plumber and when you find one he's charging an arm and a leg on the other hand we have lawyers, accountants, engineers working at a fraction of tradesmen salaries. We are also looking at immigration but the process is just too slow to fill the demand.