Economic Mismatches in the Marriage Market

[stillafool]

This is off subject and excuse me but I have to say I'm far more attracted to tradesmen guys than the "suits". They just seem to exude masculinity.

[PRW]

Going back the the original post (I can't absorb 50+ comments and what was said)....

 

It sounds like the women in the study are complaining that Hypergamy isn't working out so great for them now that there are more women than men getting the degrees and having the higher paying job,...hence there are less available men at a level "above" them that they can "Hypergam-a-mate" to.

 

This conclusion is almost laughable:

"This study reveals large deficits in the supply of potential male spouses. One implication is that the unmarried may remain unmarried or marry less well‐suited partners"

 

"Less well suited partners"???,...the arrogance of them to think that their degrees and jobs that they themselves are already married to, make them more suitable partners for the men,...and that a woman who only did Highschool is less suited.

 

Give me a woman with only a Highschool diploma any day of the week, than a "degree chick" in business attire that is only going to hit you with an expensive divorce lawyer as soon as you no longer meet her ever rising "standard".

Edited September 11, 2019 by PRW

[Gaeta]

Going back the the original post (I can't absorb 50+ comments and what was said)....It sounds like the women in the study are complaining that Hypergamy isn't working out so great for them now that there are more women than men getting the degrees and having the higher paying job,...hence there are less available men at a level "above" them that they can "Hypergam-a-mate" to.....

They were talking about that study on the radio yesterday on my way home. On the interview they were saying women earn more than men, and it's getting harder for them to find a partner with the same financial mean. There were no mention of education level, no use of words like 'suited', I guess we're more politically correct with words up here. The study was explaining why more and more couples chose to live together without marrying....to avoid being taken to the dry cleaner.

 

That being said, I have dated all types of men. The men the most worry about their wallets were the professionals. I remember dating an engineer and still after 3 months dating he would always ask for split bills. Once, all I had was a soup, and the waitress had brought 1 bill..well he had her redo the bill without my soup. That's 1 example out of many. Some of the men that were the most generous towards me were tradesmen.

Edited September 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PRW]

They were talking about that study on the radio yesterday on my way home. On the interview they were saying women earn more than men, and it's getting harder for them to find a partner with the same financial mean. There were no mention of education level, no use of words like 'suited', I guess we're more politically correct with words up here. The study was explaining why more and more couples chose to live together without marrying....to avoid being taken to the dry cleaner.

 

I agree with that. I do, though, think there is way way more factors going into all of it than the scope of this thread. It is just too big to cover and involves a person's entire "world view" encompassing political trends and global social movements.

 

That being said, I have dated all types of men. The men the most worry about their wallets were the professionals. I remember dating an engineer and still after 3 months dating he would always ask for split bills. Once, all I had was a soup, and the waitress had brought 1 bill..well he had her redo the bill without my soup. That's 1 example out of many.

A lot goes into that too, just like above.

 

Professionals had to go through the same colleges/Uni's and got the political and social indoctrination inherit in that which brings in the whole "me, me" culture. But again it is so complex and deep that there is no way to cover it here.

 

Some of the men that were the most generous towards me were tradesmen.

I'm in a strange middle ground. I came from a Blue Collar background, Yet I work in high tech and my job position has one job title between me and the President/Vice-President of the facility. At the same time I never went to Uni. It is like I have one foot in both worlds.

 

BTW - If we go on a dinner date, I'm buying. Later on if we doing more elaborate expensive things we would have to split it to afford to do it,...it's just math.

[stillafool]

I remember dating an engineer and still after 3 months dating he would always ask for split bills. Once, all I had was a soup, and the waitress had brought 1 bill..well he had her redo the bill without my soup. That's 1 example out of many. Some of the men that were the most generous towards me were tradesmen.

 

 

I remember dating a Harvard attorney who took me out for a fancy dinner. It was interesting that all 3 of the credit cards he offered to pay for it were declined and the waiter had to keep bringing them back. Finally he came up with a credit card that paid the bill. Some people will live beyond their means to impress society.

[elaine567]

@PRW

There were no women in the study complaining about anything.

It was a study based on actual data concerning married couples.

[basil67]

And the study was done by men.

[TheFinalWord]

Not calling you a liar when I say this. Numbers do not lie. Though liars use numbers to lie.

 

On average college grads earn more. Yes because the most of the jobs that pay over $150,000 a year to

millions a year you can not get unless you have a degree.

 

What I said about salaries, holds true when looking at median salaries as well (controlling for the outliers).

 

A recent study from Georgetown University found that, on average, college graduates earn $1 million more in earnings over their lifetime. Another recent study by the Pew Research Center found that the median yearly income gap between high school and college graduates is around $17,500.

 

By choosing not to go to college, you are essentially forfeiting $17,500 per year and $1 million over your lifetime.

 

That's $1 million less in retirement and $17,500 less in disposable income every year. Before you don't go to college, consider what you would do if you had an additional $1 million available when you retire. Would you buy a home? Create a fund for your children? Travel Europe?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3075189/High-school-graduates-earn-1-million-lifetime-graduate-college-new-report-finds.html

Edited September 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Gretchen12]

This is off subject and excuse me but I have to say I'm far more attracted to tradesmen guys than the "suits". They just seem to exude masculinity.

 

That's not unusual. You know the thing about the housewife and the handyman. Meanwhile the husband ("the suit") is at work.

[Gaeta]

What I said about salaries, holds true when looking at median salaries as well (controlling for the outliers). A recent study from Georgetown University found that, on average, college graduates earn $1 million more in earnings over their lifetime. Another recent study by the Pew Research Center found that the median yearly income gap between high school and college graduates is around $17,500.

 

 

Not going to college is one thing, going to a trade school is another, it's comparing apples and oranges. Your statistics include the drop outs that have no trade and work at random low paid jobs. I'd be curious looking at statistics done on people with a trade diploma.

Edited September 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stillafool]

That's not unusual. You know the thing about the housewife and the handyman. Meanwhile the husband ("the suit") is at work.

 

I was at lunch yesterday and a group of tradesmen walked in, muscles bulging, looking and acting like real men. I was starting to swoon.

[Gaeta]

I was at lunch yesterday and a group of tradesmen walked in, muscles bulging, looking and acting like real men. I was starting to swoon.

 

 

One of my ex was a man in a suit. He could not repair a leaking faucet, it was embarrassing to call a plumber just to change a $0.50 cents rubber ring.

 

 

 

I am a professional but I was raised by a truck driver and a waitress. My parents worked till they got blue in the face to send us kids to college and University. I have an undying respect for people working physically hard.

[thefooloftheyear]

What I said about salaries, holds true when looking at median salaries as well (controlling for the outliers). A recent study from Georgetown University found that, on average, college graduates earn $1 million more in earnings over their lifetime. Another recent study by the Pew Research Center found that the median yearly income gap between high school and college graduates is around $17,500.

 

While all of this is true, its not necessarily how much you make, but how much you keep....

 

I know blue collar guys on average may make some less than their white collar counterparts, but they also drive older cars and wear clothes they get at WalMart, while their white collar counterparts are driving leased Audi's and Benz's and buying expensive swag...

 

Funny thing is my accountant has a variety of clients, both blue and white....He says most of the white collar clients (even ones making 200K) are buried in debt up to their eyeballs...while a lot of the successful blue collar guys (after you figure in assets vs liabilities) are actually worth more...

 

And I raise an eyebrow on a study done by a university, stating that degreed people are better off....That's like a study done by McDonalds to make the point that fast food isn't as bad for you as its being made out to be...

 

I'm not knocking higher education, I possess one of the most difficult undergraduate degrees, despite never using any of it in my own career pursuits..

 

I'll leave you all with this one example...

 

I recently had to spend some time in a car with a client of mines son in law....His daughter is a lawyer, they are in their late 20's...Anyway, to break the ice, I ask the kid what type of work he does...He proceeds to tell me that he dropped out of HS, floated around in odd jobs, got in some trouble, then when he was 24, he answered an ad for construction help...Started out as a laborer making 24/HR...Worked hard and the boss asked him if he'd like to learn how to weld, as welders are becoming very hard to find...He says sure, boss sends him to welding school on the company dime...He gets out and after a year on the job as a welder he now is making 80-90K with OT and has a company paid brand new F250...After a few more years and a few more certifications(most importantly to cert on natural gas pipeline), then he will be worth 125-150K...

 

So, a pre 30 year old with a criminal record and a GED can now make more than most degreed counterparts, with NO debt, a company paid vehicle, full benefits and union perks/pension??? Not so bad, really...

 

TFY

Edited September 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[CollinW]

While all of this is true, its not necessarily how much you make, but how much you keep....

you took the words out of my mouth. As a guy with graduate degree I can say that the more education you get, the more debt you acquire, the more you have to pay in certifications, continuing education, publications, societies, etc. If you make 17k more than a trades person, you're paying 15k a year in school loans and extra taxes on top of that. Edited September 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Eternal Sunshine]

All these arguments are laughable. An average tradesman has 50 people company and has a fancy university degree? I'm yet to meet any. I'm sure those cases exist in such a small number that they are negligible.

 

 

 

I guess you need education to even understand what "mean" and "median" are.

[Gaeta]

All these arguments are laughable. An average tradesman has 50 people company and has a fancy university degree? I'm yet to meet any. I'm sure those cases exist in such a small number that they are negligible.

 

I guess you need education to even understand what "mean" and "median" are.

 

You're the only one laughing.

 

From coffee shops to corner bakeries, there are roughly 30.2 million small businesses in America, says the Small Business Administration. That amounts to 99.9 percent of all U.S. businesses!

 

Small businesses are making the economy go round and they're mostly own by Mr. and Mrs joe blow. 52% of those small businesses are home-based. The fastest growing sector for freelance businesses in 2011 included auto repair shops, beauty salons and dry cleaners

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonnazar/2013/09/09/16-surprising-statistics-about-small-businesses/#704ba5865ec8

 

Laughing at trade jobs is laughing at the people who are at the core of your economy.

[elaine567]

Eternal Sunshine is laughing at the idea that a guy with a degree and who employs 50 people is an "average" tradesperson.

As soon as he got that degree, he became a "graduate".

[thefooloftheyear]

All these arguments are laughable. An average tradesman has 50 people company and has a fancy university degree? I'm yet to meet any. I'm sure those cases exist in such a small number that they are negligible.

 

 

 

I guess you need education to even understand what "mean" and "median" are.

 

Most of the guys I know with blue collar companies have multi million dollar net worth and most don't even have any college...

 

Who do you think is running these companies..? The IT guy that got bored so he decided to try a plumbing business or own a body shop ??

 

You need to get more outside your world...No disrespect...

 

TFY

[Gretchen12]

All this debate about blue vs white collar is really going off topic. It's a touchy and sometimes political issue. The study posted by the OP compared two groups of men. The husbands have an average income that is about 58% higher than the unmarried men, but only 19% more likely to have a college degree.

 

I think what is going on is that men are more ready to get married when they are financially secure, not when they get their degree or trade certificate (both are education/training)

 

I think the conclusion of the study is flawed, because if a lot of men would only marry after arriving at a comfortable income, then of course the synthetic husbands will be financially better off than the unmarried men.

[oldtruck]

All this debate about blue vs white collar is really going off topic. It's a touchy and sometimes political issue. The study posted by the OP compared two groups of men. The husbands have an average income that is about 58% higher than the unmarried men, but only 19% more likely to have a college degree.

 

I think what is going on is that men are more ready to get married when they are financially secure, not when they get their degree or trade certificate (both are education/training)

 

I think the conclusion of the study is flawed, because if a lot of men would only marry after arriving at a comfortable income, then of course the synthetic husbands will be financially better off than the unmarried men.

 

Also Gretchen, with OLD getting average looks getting tons of hits way

more than in real life they have an inflated self worth on the relationship

market.

 

Combine that they insist on a man average to better than for looks,

must be at least 6' tall, and have a career that they can brag about

look who I am dating, and must make a high income.

 

This is why most married men make a lot more money. The blue collar

under $50,000 a year man, average height or less and looks comes

up short in the marriage business.

[mark clemson]

One (I think) relevant point - I suspect there are women out there who would screw a tradesman, but not necessarily marry one. It's due to their perceptions of LT prospects for the person, which often aren't going to match reality (or possibly about perceived social status). If they had a better understanding of the economic realities, including college debt, etc, the tradesmen would be equal, I suspect. Could be wrong.

Edited September 13, 2019 by mark clemson
hit wrong button

[TheFinalWord]

I guess you need education to even understand what "mean" and "median" are.

 

Some of these responses are making our point for us, and they don't even realize it

[oldtruck]

One (I think) relevant point - I suspect there are women out there who would screw a tradesman, but not necessarily marry one. It's due to their perceptions of LT prospects for the person, which often aren't going to match reality (or possibly about perceived social status). If they had a better understanding of the economic realities, including college debt, etc, the tradesmen would be equal, I suspect. Could be wrong.

 

People assume college more money, as in always.

 

Opposite for Blue Collar.

 

There are millions upon millions of real life situations where the opposite

income earned is where the BC man has a higher income than a WC man.

And many WC men struggle to make more than $50G.

 

It would seem that the smart women would not just judge the book by

only the cover.

[Allupinnit]

I come from a family of blue collar workers. They were always broke. None of them owned a business themselves - they took work where they could get it. Vacations, a nice home, nope none of that. My dad wouldn't even let us turn the heat up above 65 - and this was in the midwest where it would be below -20 regularly. Screw all of that.

 

I am now what you consider "white collar" and I am doing much better financially. Not to mention, I will always have my degree. Many jobs nowadays won't even look at your resume if you can't check that 4-year box. If you lose your ability to work with your hands in a trade, what then?

 

If you can't afford to go to college right out of high school, there are many paths for adults to achieve that nowadays, in affordable ways, within your limited time available. I think of it as an insurance policy for your future. Most blue collar jobs are just that - a job, not necessarily a career. In addition to there not being much upward mobility aside from foreman or manager for the majority.

 

I knew from growing up poor in an uneducated family that it wasn't what I wanted for my own future. So I chose a different path and was lucky enough to meet a guy with the same opportunity afforded to him through formal education. Like anyone else, whether blue collar or white collar, it's what you with it that matters. I wouldn't have spent time and money on a degree in English, for example.

[oldtruck]

I come from a family of blue collar workers. They were always broke. None of them owned a business themselves - they took work where they could get it. Vacations, a nice home, nope none of that. My dad wouldn't even let us turn the heat up above 65 - and this was in the midwest where it would be below -20 regularly. Screw all of that.

 

I am now what you consider "white collar" and I am doing much better financially. Not to mention, I will always have my degree. Many jobs nowadays won't even look at your resume if you can't check that 4-year box. If you lose your ability to work with your hands in a trade, what then?

 

If you can't afford to go to college right out of high school, there are many paths for adults to achieve that nowadays, in affordable ways, within your limited time available. I think of it as an insurance policy for your future. Most blue collar jobs are just that - a job, not necessarily a career. In addition to there not being much upward mobility aside from foreman or manager for the majority.

 

I knew from growing up poor in an uneducated family that it wasn't what I wanted for my own future. So I chose a different path and was lucky enough to meet a guy with the same opportunity afforded to him through formal education. Like anyone else, whether blue collar or white collar, it's what you with it that matters. I wouldn't have spent time and money on a degree in English, for example.

 

You growing up poor had nothing to do with your dad being blue collar.

It had to do with him not being able to get a high paying BC job.

 

You getting a BS and a WC job does not make you have a good income

automatically. You were able to turn your degree into a high income.

Not every is able to turn a degree into a high income.

 

There are no guarantees which career path, BC or WC will yield a high

income.

 

Genuine congratulations on your success.