I have insomnia

[Wiseman2]

Do you do shift work or have other sleep disorders such as sleep apnea, etc.?

Do you drink alcohol or caffeine a lot?

Practice a heathier lifestyle before you start using supplements, which may or may not have anything to do with this.

[ironpony]

Oh okay.  I hardly even drink caffeine since I am trying to make myself less awake.  I don't drink coffee or soda almost ever.  I drink alcohol about twice a week, usually on weekends when not working.

I started a new job a few weeks ago where I had to shift my previous sleep cycle around so it's gotten worse since then.

Edited March 6, 2021 by ironpony

[Alpacalia]

14 minutes ago, ironpony said:

Oh okay.  I hardly even drink caffeine since I am trying to make myself less awake.  I don't drink coffee or soda almost ever.  I drink alcohol about twice a week, usually on weekends when not working.

I started a new job a few weeks ago where I had to shift my previous sleep cycle around so it's gotten worse since then.

Yes, some people can function perfectly fine on 4-5 hours sleep.

[ShyViolet]

I don't think it's normal or healthy to sleep only 4-5 hours a night.

[ironpony]

Well if it's not normal or healthy is there anything I can do about it perhaps that I didn't think of maybe, or the doctor didn't think of?

[Alpacalia]

What did your doctor suggest?

[Mrin]

For the vast majority of humans know it's not normal. Or rather I should say it's not healthy. 

But... Some people have a genetic sequence that causes them to require less sleep. A slang term for them is "The Sleepless Elite" if you want to Google it. 

[Wiseman2]

4-5 is doable occasionally but sort in the zombie zone 💀 until I can sleep better the next night, at least 7 or so.😴

[ironpony]

7 hours ago, Alpaca said:

What did your doctor suggest?

The doctor was kind of stumped and did not know what to do, if the melatonin was not working.  He said he does not want to prescribe anything more harsh, because he feels that those drugs will cause more problems, and wants to hold off on it.  So I guess I am stuck with the melatonin even though it only works for 4-5 hours for now then.  I do feel kind of zombie like for the past couple of weeks though.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'd definitely try to get more sleep. Sleep science shows that it's not until the later stages of sleep, beyond 7 to 8 hours, that the body begins deep healing at the cellular level. You know how when you get extra sleep you wake up feeling amazing? That's because your body has had time to heal at the cellular level.

For this reason, and because it makes me feel so much better, I'm strict about getting 8-9 hours a night.

[ironpony]

Oh okay thanks, that's very interesting.  However, I keep waking up after 4-5 hours and cannot get back to sleep.  So I am not sure how to get more therefore.

[jah526]

I have the same issue. I go to bed earlier. When I wake up it's around 2 or 3 am so I try to read then, usually to get my mind off of racing anxiety thoughts. Eventually I will usually get back to sleep after a couple of hours, if only for an hour or two.

There is another school of thought that says that if you are waking up after 4 hours you should go to bed at, say, 2:30 if you want to be up by 6:30. Once you are consistently sleeping soundly for that amount of time, then gradually work your way backwards (1:30, 12:30, etc.) and repeat the pattern, until you are finally getting a normal amount of sleep.

[Mrin]

Ambien is like an off switch for me. I've actually experimented trying to stay awake on the stuff and nope! I only use it when I do transatlantic or transpacific travel to hit the reset button when I get there

[elaine567]

Quote

Renaissance
It was considered a regular habit among civilization during this time to have a first and second rest period during the night while experiencing a peaceful waking segment in between.
Instead of feeling concern over being awake during the middle of the night, citizens would use this time for prayer, reflection, sex, chores, reading by candlelight and visiting friends.
https://www.sleepadvisor.org/history-of-sleep/

.

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, ironpony said:

The doctor was kind of stumped and did not know what to do, if the melatonin was not working.  He said he does not want to prescribe anything more harsh, because he feels that those drugs will cause more problems, and wants to hold off on it.  So I guess I am stuck with the melatonin even though it only works for 4-5 hours for now then.  I do feel kind of zombie like for the past couple of weeks though.

If you haven't tried there's also mindfulness meditation that has very promising results.

Just be forewarned that the first few times you try it, it can be a bit challenging. Your mind starts swirling with random thoughts so it takes a bit of practice to get through.

You can Google it or look for vids on YouTube.

Good luck!

 

[ironpony]

Okay thanks, I can try the meditation, thanks.  Well I looked up ambien and it's a perscribed drug, but my doctor refused to give anything prescribed, saying it's not worth it for the side effects.

[mark clemson]

If your doctor approves it, melatonin is a supplement that may help.

Edited March 11, 2021 by mark clemson
typo

[ironpony]

Oh well melatonin so far is the one I have been taking that only laste 4-5 hours so I thought maybe I need something that lasts longer, if that's the case.

[MsJayne]

I only need 6 hours a night, can easily get by on 5, and I fire on all cylinders all day long, (and I don't even do caffeine  ). It can be a genetic thing, my father used to only sleep 6 hours too. Some people need less restorative sleep than others because it's quality of sleep rather than quantity which affects cognitive performance, mood, and energy levels. As long as you're going through the four stages of sleep it shouldn't be a big problem unless you feel tired during the day.  Depressive illness and anxiety can have an enormous impact on your ability to stay asleep, and on the quality of your sleep, but then you're dealing with insomnia rather than just short sleep hours. There's plenty of interesting articles on it. On the upside, there's scientific evidence which suggests people who need less sleep tend towards high intelligence. On the downside, short sleepers are often also light sleepers, which means any little thing wakes us up. 

https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep/natural-short-sleeper

 

[Ruby Slippers]

^ On the other hand, I've heard a credible sleep scientist talk about how people who think they're fine with low sleep have higher rates of diseases and health issues later in life. Basically, the lack of deep cellular healing associated with longer sleep accumulates over time. Great discussion on this Joe Rogan podcast episode with Matthew Walker, professor of neuroscience and psychology and founder and of the Center for Human Sleep Science. I loved this discussion. It confirmed with science so many things I've felt intuitively for a long time were true. 

[Trail Blazer]

8 hours ago, Mrin said:

For the vast majority of humans know it's not normal. Or rather I should say it's not healthy. 

But... Some people have a genetic sequence that causes them to require less sleep. A slang term for them is "The Sleepless Elite" if you want to Google it. 

@ironpony I am one of these people.  I sleep five hours max.  I use my fit watch to log my sleep.  I generally sleep at around 96 percent efficiency.  What that translates to, is that I am deep sleeping for at least four hours per night.

Some people take a very long time to get to deep sleep.  I guess I am one of the lucky ones and sleep very efficiently.  As long as you sleep efficiently and feel well rested, I wouldn't worry too much.

[Trail Blazer]

7 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd definitely try to get more sleep. Sleep science shows that it's not until the later stages of sleep, beyond 7 to 8 hours, that the body begins deep healing at the cellular level. You know how when you get extra sleep you wake up feeling amazing? That's because your body has had time to heal at the cellular level.

For this reason, and because it makes me feel so much better, I'm strict about getting 8-9 hours a night.

I cannot sleep longer than eight hours, and that might be once a month or two, where I've accumulated sufficient sleep debt that I need that long to sleep.  Longer sleep does not equal feeling amazing.  In fact, it's the opposite for me.

If I slept more than six hours on a regular basis, I'd feel lethargic and gross.  I sleep so deep and efficiently that I just do not need hours of light and REM sleep before slipping into a deep sleep.

Due to the nature of my work, I don't ever require an alarm clock.  I wake up of my own volition every day.  Even when I am not out of town and I stay at my girlfriend's house, I wake up well before her alarm clock goes off at 7:00 a.m.

[Ruby Slippers]

Ok, if it works for you. Just sharing the science. 

[Mrin]

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

@ironpony I am one of these people.  I sleep five hours max.  I use my fit watch to log my sleep.  I generally sleep at around 96 percent efficiency.  What that translates to, is that I am deep sleeping for at least four hours per night.

Some people take a very long time to get to deep sleep.  I guess I am one of the lucky ones and sleep very efficiently.  As long as you sleep efficiently and feel well rested, I wouldn't worry too much.

Ya I'm one too. Though lately I've been doing 5 hours most nights.

[Trail Blazer]

41 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Ok, if it works for you. Just sharing the science. 

I love science.  I also love being the outlier in this instance.