Using autism as an excuse to be an entitled jerk?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

If you're on Facebook, maybe you've heard of Humans of New York. I'll include a description at the end, from their FB page, of what Humans of New York is. This was today's post:

 

 

For those without Facebook, it's a photo of a guy on a park bench (from behind because why would you show your face if this is what you're gonna tell the world about yourself), and here is the text.

 

“I was like an ‘incel’ kid. I’d never had a girlfriend. I’d only had sex with prostitutes. I was very suicidal. Then one day I was standing next to a cute girl at a bus stop, and I googled: ‘How to approach women.’ That’s when I came across a forum for pick-up artists. It’s exactly what I’d been looking for. It seemed like a cure for my autism. I watched all the videos I could find. I started working out at a gym. I’d spend all day approaching women. Soon I was only hanging out with other pick-up artists. They respected me. They wanted to learn from me. Finally there was something I was good at. Right now I have over one thousand numbers in my phone. It’s a bit like gambling. Sometimes it goes well. Sometimes it doesn’t. But you always have the chance for sex. There are so many tricks to learn. Women have emotional brains. They get addicted to feelings. You can use that to your advantage. The first time you meet her—tell her she looks amazing. But never give her a full compliment again. She’ll always chase that validation. It’s like a drug. Tell her ‘she looks beautiful for her age.’ Tell her ‘she looks good in this lighting.’ Keep her insecure with half compliments. Keep her feeling like there’s something wrong with her. Like she’s not good enough for you. Like she needs sex for validation. Of course it’s manipulation, but why should I care? I’ve been manipulated so many times in my life.”

 

(Amsterdam, The Netherlands)

 

*********

 

PUA fans, this is why this stuff is so disgusting. It relegates women to an entitlement. And in the end, it doesn't get you a real relationship anyway.

 

As far as this particular PUA goes, is it his autism that makes him feel entitlted to the affections of women, or is he using it at as an excuse?

 

****************

 

From the HONY Facebook page:

 

 

About

New York City, one story at a time.

 

Humans of New York began as a photography project in 2010. The initial goal was to photograph 10,000 New Yorkers on the street, and create an exhaustive catalogue of the city’s inhabitants. Somewhere along the way, I began to interview my subjects in addition to photographing them. And alongside their portraits, I'd include quotes and short stories from their lives.

 

Taken together, these portraits and captions became the subject of a vibrant blog. HONY now has over twenty million followers on social media, and provides a worldwide audience with daily glimpses into the lives of strangers on the streets of New York City. Over the past five years, it has also expanded to feature stories from over twenty different countries. The work is also featured in two bestselling books: Humans of New York and Humans of New York: Stories.

[Gaeta]

Wow I am speechless and as I read his text I could remember meeting men behaving like this with me.

[kendahke]

I guess he doesn't think women read HONY.

[smackie9]

I feel the Autism is why he struggles socially causing much frustration. This frustration, is distorting his perspective, causing him to feel entitled. BUT I know guys who are not Autistic that feel this way out of frustration as well. So yes and no.

[Saracena]

The fact he's autistic is neither here or there IMO. Justifies nothing. Only in his mind. But also he thinks it's OK to manipulate and control as well. Awful.

 

Sounds like some elements of antisocial personality disorder as well.

[preraph]

Well, I shouldn't be surprised that what pickup artistry is about is grooming a woman for abuse. Especially when it's coming from someone who no one likes for just himself.

[justwhoiam]

is it his autism that makes him feel entitlted to the affections of women, or is he using it at as an excuse?

I think it's the latter, but he might not know it.

[normal person]

I'm going to make some assumptions here. Granted, we only have a short quote from the guy and it doesn't delve into much about why he felt suicidal, etc. However, to me it doesn't sound like he's using autism as an excuse, it sounds like he's using how people have treated him or the failures he's had as a result of his autism as a justification to treat others the same way.

 

"Of course it’s manipulation, but why should I care? I’ve been manipulated so many times in my life.”

 

The last sentence is kind of telling. I can understand why some people who have never been shown much sympathy are less inclined to show sympathy themselves when the shoe is on the other foot, even when they should be empathizing with someone else's pain.

 

If society treats you terribly, you don't have much incentive to be nice back to it, especially when the product of your goodwill likely won't benefit you. Society (or at the least the love/relationship aspects of it) isn't particularly kind to autistic and/or incel people. While I don't agree with or endorse what this guy is doing, I can understand how he got to the place he did, assuming the narrative is "people never liked me." Which, if he's autistic, is not uncommon.

 

If you were being held captive and mistreated by someone, then one day you the roles reversed, would you be nice to the person who mistreated you, or would seek your own sort of justice? If you're unkind to people, don't expect them to be kind back when they have some more agency over their situation (or yours).

 

I've read about this incel stuff as well and I can see a similar trajectory. What do you do with people who no one wants anything to do with? I think a lot of these people will say society is cruel to them. So a natural reaction is, if given the chance, to be cruel to society in return. If they were shown some sympathy and/or given a way out of their situation, you might not have as many guys like this or groups like incels, MGTOWs, which can be misogynistic or violent in extreme cases.

 

I'm not sure exactly what the solution is, but there needs to be a way for these people to be more accepted by society before they start doing this sort of stuff, not less.

 

Maybe this guy doesn't deserve any sympathy, I don't know. But I'd like to hear how he got to the place where he felt suicidal and incel. That would help color the portrait more.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Great post, NP.

 

I just hope my daughter never runs into anyone who subscribes to this PUA garbage.

[Lotsgoingon]

Cautiously, unfortunately this type of thinking gets passed down without PUA promotion ... lots of jerks know this kinda thinking ... without any practice.

 

And this guy is talking about sex ... Most women would figure him out at some point ... I doubt he's getting into any real relationships with that thinking ... and I bet he's preying on the insecurities of younger women. My middle-aged women friends wouldn't buy this stuff in a moment. They'd crack right back ... "well YOU look kinda short and ugly in this light."

[basil67]

Incel groups are known for attracting men on who on the spectrum. The particular ones who are drawn to it have been rejected socially all their lives and suddenly they find a group of men who share the frustration, and give help and support.

 

I can understand getting carried away with something because you finally feel accepted and listened to.

[Gretchen12]

Where does it say he's autistic? I didn't get that.

 

Anyway, as an example, among the mentally challenged people, some are kind and some are not. Unfortunately, I think it's true of children as well. Some very young children enjoy torturing small animals. A good heart (or lack thereof) is separate from mental acuity. When a child or a mentally retarded person, (or the autistic guy in your post) has hatred, they're not good at hiding it, the evil is starkly expressed on the face and in speech.

 

I'm pretty good at sensing whether someone has a cruel heart or a kind one. You can see a lot on people's faces if you look past the exterior. It's an intuition we all have, to varying degrees, that saves us from dangers. I haven't gone out with one of these PUA.

Edited October 1, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[basil67]

Gretchen, third line down, on the left.

[basil67]

Here's a blog which explains it well Clueless: Autism and the PUA Community

[Gretchen12]

Gretchen, third line down, on the left.

 

Thanks!

 

(... how come so much more autism these days?)

[crispytoast]

Thanks!

 

(... how come so much more autism these days?)

 

It's because the psychology community has greatly advanced it's knowledge on autism. Also autism is a neurological difference, and to liken autism to intellectual disability is extremely offensive. People with autism often are intellectually brilliant and there are many autistic people who are more successful than likely most of the people on LoveShack will ever be myself included.

 

Sorry not trying to jump down your throat just trying to provide some awareness.

Edited October 1, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[basil67]

(... how come so much more autism these days?)

 

More dx or more discussion? I have comments on both but don't want to go off on the wrong tangent.

[basil67]

Also autism is not mental retardation, it's a neurological difference, and to liken autism to mental retardation is extremely offensive.

 

Yep, I know some brilliant auties and some who have an intellectual disability. The intellectual disability is a co-morbid condition rather than caused by autism. My son's intellectual disability is a separate dx to his autism.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

It's because the psychology community has greatly advanced it's knowledge on autism.

 

Agree. "Advances in medicine" is the answer to why "so much more now." It's just diagnosed more now because Planet Earth is older its inhabitants know more.

[morrowrd]

It's people like that who give men a bad name - although women play games too. There is a selfish game being played here, and using autism as an excuse. And bragging about 1000+ women on his phone makes me doubt the actual truthfulness of his message.

 

I am an old fashioned conservative however, and still believe in old fashioned values when it comes to being a man, and how to treat a woman. I also feel that if one was so unlucky in love, and finally gets a woman all for himself, he would be so into his happiness and romance that he wouldn't come online and bragging about his "little black book" as we used to call it. Speaking from personal experience.

[Saracena]

100% agree with M above.

 

I also very much doubt he's a successful as his claims. Neither do I believe women are as gullible as he'd make us believe. (Someone very vulnerable , maybe) Even as a teenager I'd have copped his game.

 

You see, I'm actually ignoring the fact and more relevantly the 'excuse' in this instance he has autism. Essentially it's his personality shining through. He's a player pure and simple.

[basil67]

I do not like the PUA values which this young man has stumbled across. Nor do I think he's as successful as he says.

 

But the values of those of you who have judged him for having a reasonable amount of cynicism and frustration after a lifetime of being left out of friendship and love are no better. You can't even begin to imagine the frustration of not being able to connect. Now here he is finding people who take the time to teach and you say horrible things.

 

Of those here who've judged, how many have actually taken the time out to mentor an autie through dating? How many of you have included someone with very limited social skills in your friend group?

[preraph]

Just because someone can't get laid doesn't mean society is abusing them.

[normal person]

Just because someone can't get laid doesn't mean society is abusing them.

 

You're right, it doesn't. But someone who doesn't necessarily experience a directed, specific mistreatment might still feel the deck is insurmountably stacked against them if everything they've done or tried was met with rejection, disgust, etc from multiple sources in across a lifetime. Society might not be acutely malicious all the time, but I think for a lot of these people, it can exclude them in a less transparent way a lot of the rest of the time. That's what leads to people acting the one described in the article, I'd imagine. It sounds like people never cared much about him, so what's the incentive to care back? So the society that doesn't accept him can benefit from his altruism while simultaneously denying him theirs? If that's the logic to follow, and I'm not saying it is necessarily, it makes a lot of sense -- to me, at least. If people constantly avoided, judged, and mistreated you for reasons unbeknownst to you (for things beyond your control), then you're going to reciprocate in some form. For example, this guy feels he's been manipulated, so now he has no qualm manipulating others. There are some other high profile cases of violence that I won't mention, but from what I understand, the themes are similar although more extreme. People who feel mistreated (and I'm not saying they're accurate in their assessment of mistreatment or justified in their actions) might be inclined to reciprocate.

 

Of course, much of this is unjustified, it's not good for someone to think "Ugh, I can't get a job and women won't give me their number so I'm going to do x, y, and z." But it'll happen. While there aren't any laws saying "be nice to everyone, give everyone a chance, date anyone who asks you out" (nor should there be), these are the consequences. The people we aren't nice to, who nobody gives a chance to, who no one wants to date, might become like the guy in the article, or worse.

 

I could be wrong about this guy, he could just be naturally awful, but we don't know.

 

I'm saying this having seen in firsthand with someone I know with autism, I haven't seen much slack cut to him, even though he's not a bad person in any way. He's just off beat and different, and it's obvious to everyone but him. That doesn't bode well for forming and maintaining relationships of any kind. Thankfully this person isn't pernicious like the one described in the article, but if he were to get on a similar path, I would at least be able to understand why. Someone less equipped to deal with it all might take a darker path.

 

This is something I've thought about a lot, what do you do with people society doesn't seem to have much place for? Most of them are already demoralized, I don't see much utility in demonizing them further, the likely result isn't going to be a positive one. But at the same time, you can't force people to really like, accept, include, and others beyond an elementary level of base line decency.

Edited September 21, 2019 by normal person

[elaine567]

Society works, for society. The "rules" it lays down have a purpose.

They facilitate the "normal", and handicap the "abnormal", usually for what is seen as the general good.

If you don't fit in or you can't follow the rules adequately, then society is not on your side.

Society likes those that comply, those that can compete, those that are strong.

In that way, society stays strong.

 

People who can't date, have poor social skills or are "odd" or "different", get left behind and as their genes are somewhat "defective" as far as the wider society is concerned, then society does not really care.

We (gen) tend not to like that lack of compassion and pity, and so we, in this supposedly caring society tend to talk a good game but the reality is often not so rosy at the coal face.

Bottom line...You shape up or you ship out.

 

Here this guy who is deemed "abnormal". was allegedly rejected by society, but he has turned to the dark side and is now abusing women for his own gain.

His autism and his personality has allowed that.

Is that good?

Not really.