Using autism as an excuse to be an entitled jerk?

[pepperbird]

We are all products of our past. For whatever reason, not everyone is self aware enough to know when they are being scammed or played.

 

The ironic thing is that most autistics simply are terrible liars. My son tries sometimes, and when my daughter was small, she would too- just about kid stuff. They just can't do it. The psychologist they both saw said that's incredibly common, a function of black and white thinking. Dishonesty is wrong. Lying is wrong, and you shouldn't do what's wrong.

 

Of course, like any other statement, there are always exceptions to every rule.

[preraph]

I believe that. But I bet they can lie on the internet in writing. I mean, how many people have we seen on here who have spectrum disorders and can't talk to women and can't read cues so they seem very awkward to others in person, but on here, they can go on flawlessly in writing. And I'm pretty sure that's where most of this is taking place now.

 

But forget about people with disorders; probably half the people on OLD are lying some way somehow about something to make themselves look better. Or leaving out pertinent information such as "I'm a prison inmate," "I'm married," "I already have a girlfriend but am on her fishing to see if I can do better or at least get a compliment," or "I'm too afraid to ever meet you but I like to have something to jack off to and you'd do."

[Gretchen12]

ok preraph, you caught me, my name is not really Gretchen and I am a prison inmate...

 

Seriously, it's actually kinda scary that not all kids have been taught that lying is wrong. Kids learn by example. What they've figured out by observation is that lying is only bad if you get caught.

[Beendaredonedat]

I don't know BDDD - perhaps you don't mean it this way, but it feels like you are victim-blaming a certain portion of these women.

Once again. They are NOT victims. They are volunteers who quickly jump into bed with a man they do not know. PUA's do not stick around and court a woman. They are in it for the sex and if women want to jump into bed with a virtual stranger then that is their choice. They are not victims so please stop painting them as such. It does nothing to help women who do such things to educate them if they are told they are victims. It's cruel to label someone who caves to some stranger guy a "victim"

They were gullible, weak, or stupid enough to fall for this guy, therefore they deserve to be hurt by him?

No one said the deserve anything. They deserve to be taught better for themselves then to be called victims. To call a woman that falls into bed with a PUA a "victim" is to give far too much credit to the PUA and it demeans true victims of men who are forced into doing things they did not want to do.

 

I agree that there is a live-and-learn process we all go through (and need to go through to some extent). However, just because some of them are "easy prey" doesn't mean he (or anyone) needs to take advantage of them. Nor does it mean they are asking to be hurt. To my mind, he's still victimizing them.

He's not, he's just taking advantage of the opportunities that are presented to him. Unless these women are with Special Needs mentally and don't know any better, they are authors of their own misfortunes.

 

Just like with the con artist victim - the gullibility of the victim doesn't excuse the crime

Having consensual sex isn't a crime though, Mark.

or mean that the victim wanted to lose large sums of money and doesn't deserve justice (or better yet to never be taking advantage of in the first place). Laws against it don't "enable" people to be victims.

This is off topic. This thread is about women who have consented to go to bed with a man that uses techniques that are in books that I have advised that all women read so they know when they are being hit on. They also need to understand that sex won't lead them to a relationship so if they are going to bed a man after a night of banter over a bar, then they better be sure that they will be okay if/when he never commits to them or even calls them again.

 

I'd note that the above almost certainly wouldn't apply to all the women - a certain percent (the smarter or less naive ones, presumably) wouldn't be expecting/interested in genuine caring, etc from this guy.

I agree.

 

@Preraph:

What woman wouldn't be more interested in a guy who was pretending to be everything she wanted and doing a convincing job of it? And why is that the woman's fault that he's a lying conniving fraud? It's not.

PUA's don't promise anything, they don't pretend to want you past the first time you go to bed with them. If you go to bed with a man that you don't know, then you should learn how to forgive yourself for expecting that sex (with a stranger) will get you a good guy worth having. This man proclaims to have over a 1000 chica's in his social media account Preraph... these women who keep him in their lives are not victims. He's doing something right to/with them that fills a void in them somehow (validation through sex is my guess). If they go back for more after realizing that he's only in it for fun, then they are volunteering for the job. Edited September 26, 2019 by Beendaredonedat

[Gretchen12]

PUA's do not stick around and court a woman.

 

Seems to me this is the issue being debated here. I've only heard of PUA by reading LS posts and what I understood is that they hit on multiple women, and date them for several weeks or months.

 

You are talking about the men as strangers that women are sleeping with, practically the same day they just met. And the women obviously had no feelings developed yet.

 

But I thought one of the PUA tactics is to wait days before texting and only see her once a week. If it goes weekly it gets to be longer term. They have contacts over a long period of time and the woman's interest is built up.

 

I think you're not talking about the same thing as what I'm thinking PUA is.

[Beendaredonedat]

Seems to me this is the issue being debated here. I've only heard of PUA by reading LS posts and what I understood is that they hit on multiple women, and date them for several weeks or months.

 

You are talking about the men as strangers that women are sleeping with, practically the same day they just met. And the women obviously had no feelings developed yet.

 

But I thought one of the PUA tactics is to wait days before texting and only see her once a week. If it goes weekly it gets to be longer term. They have contacts over a long period of time and the woman's interest is built up.

 

I think you're not talking about the same thing as what I'm thinking PUA is.

Well, I don't know about anyone else but if a guy is waiting days before texting then I'd say he's not all that interested in anything serious (same with not seeing me very often) which would lead me to never see the d-bag again. Now if I've gone to bed with him before I sussed out his actual interest in me through his actions and his "tells" that he values me, (he's a stranger) then that's on me. If I'm horny, and I go to bed with him over some banter at a bar, then certainly I'm not going to expect him to text or see me more than when he wants another go. Common sense. If you bed a stranger then you shouldn't have any expectations.

[crispytoast]

To be clear, PUA refers to the art of picking up women. It's not specifically one night stands nor is it required that it's all about sex. There are positive sides to PUA literature such as encouraging confidence and working on improving the self to be more attractive, and there are negative sides such as emotional manipulation. A man could in theory use the positive aspects of PUA literature without being a woman-hating dickhole.

[Gretchen12]

Well, I don't know about anyone else but if a guy is waiting days before texting then I'd say he's not all that interested in anything serious (same with not seeing me very often) which would lead me to never see the d-bag again. Now if I've gone to bed with him before I sussed out his actual interest in me through his actions and his "tells" that he values me, (he's a stranger) then that's on me. If I'm horny, and I go to bed with him over some banter at a bar, then certainly I'm not going to expect him to text or see me more than when he wants another go. Common sense. If you bed a stranger then you shouldn't have any expectations.

 

Ok, we're not talking about the same thing. I wasn't talking about a woman who had sex with the guy at all at any time.

[crispytoast]

Ok, we're not talking about the same thing. I wasn't talking about a woman who had sex with the guy at all at any time.

Then what exactly are you talking about? Because in the OP the guy is specifically talking about his phone book full of women that will have sex with him.

[Shining One]

Because in the OP the guy is specifically talking about his phone book full of women that will have sex with him.

I got the impression that the numbers in his phone were a combination of women he's pursuing / has pursued, other pick-up artists, and potential pick-up artists who wished to learn from him.

[basil67]

I'm getting the impression that the numbers in his phone are hypothetical.

[elaine567]

He's probably just a spotty oik, sitting in his bedroom fantasising about the women he has pulled from Instagram...

 

"Oh Peter, I am so glad you liked my red bikini... I will wear it again next week just for you..

love you,

Megan (1m followers)

xxx"

[mark clemson]

@ Elaine - LOL...

 

 

@ BDDD: While I recognize that your opinion is sincere and strongly held, I don’t agree. Here are some of the reasons why:

 

 

They are NOT victims. They are volunteers…

 

This is where you’re wrong. Here’s the definition of victim per Google (emphasis mine):

 

1. a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action

2. a person who is tricked or duped

 

In his own words this guy is emotionally manipulating women. He is doing this by tricking them regarding the sincerity of his statements and his romantic intentions (see below). Since he’s misleading these women about his intentions and in doing so causing them emotional harm, by definition, these women are indeed victims.

 

 

If you don’t want to apply the definition of the word to cases where it actually fits, that’s your prerogative, I suppose, but it’s definitely an opinion, not a fact.

 

IMO, calling someone who’s been emotionally manipulated via deception into doing something a “volunteer” is circuitous logic at best.

 

 

 

PUA's do not stick around and court a woman … PUA's don't promise anything, they don't pretend to want you past the first time you go to bed with them.

 

Untrue – he is indeed courting them. The man under discussion wrote “The first time you meet her—tell her she looks amazing. But never give her a full compliment again. She’ll always chase that validation. … Keep her insecure with half compliments. Keep her feeling like there’s something wrong with her.” This clearly shows he’s engaging them over an extended time.

 

If he was being honest about his intentions, he wouldn’t be describing what he does as manipulation. Once he beds her once, maybe he’s done (this isn’t actually clear). But that doesn’t at all mean he wasn’t implying more than that before he got her into bed.

 

 

 

They also need to understand that sex won't lead them to a relationship so if they are going to bed a man after a night of banter over a bar…

 

I tend to agree with your main point. Again, however, per the original post, that’s NOT what’s happening here.

 

 

It's cruel to label someone who caves to some stranger guy a "victim".

 

I’m not sure why you’d think this, but again I totally disagree. I actually think it’s crueler to not acknowledge the fact that they’ve been deliberately deceived and manipulated.

 

 

Unless these women are with Special Needs mentally and don't know any better, they are authors of their own misfortunes.

 

This is an opinion and again I don’t agree. Plenty of smart people can be naïve, inexperienced, or otherwise ignorant in many ways, including romantically. I’d say you’re actually denigrating them by suggesting that they have “Special Needs”. The subset we’re talking about could easily be duped without being stupid or having other issues simply due to inexperience and naiveté. There are many stories of seemingly quite intelligent women duped by romantic scammers, catfishers, and the like.

 

 

 

To call a woman that falls into bed with a PUA a "victim" is to give far too much credit to the PUA and it demeans true victims of men who are forced into doing things they did not want to do.

 

Technically untrue in the case under discussion and likely in many others, (but doubtless not all). Again this is an opinion and one I do not share. I recognize there is clearly an honorable intent on your part, but to my mind this is tantamount to saying we can’t call victims of identity theft “victims” simply because other people out there are victims of murder.

 

 

 

Sorry, If women don't take responsibility for their own emotional health and honing good personal boundaries then they are the authors of their own mis-fortune.

 

To the extent this is true, it’s co-authors at best. Having a character flaw doesn't absolve the person who takes advantage of it.

 

 

 

I recognize that your view is strongly held and logical to you based on how you view “victims” and also very likely based on your views about agency, personal responsibility, and no doubt some other import factors. I also see that you genuinely feel that your view is beneficial for these women. So, for those reasons I most certainly respect your opinion, even if I don’t share it.

[Beendaredonedat]

@Mark: respect your opinion as well, like you, I don't agree with your spin on it. These women are not being forced into anything. If they are being "duped" by anything then they are vulnerable to their own emotional immaturity.

 

I will say again that calling someone a victim of their own desire or their own need for validation through sex and or the attention of a man that is smoozing with them, is doing them a disservice. One will never learn to change their own tactics and dating savvy if they are made to believe they are a victim and therefore helpless, unable to have set the course of their own destiny which isn't the case.

 

This is an opinion and again I don’t agree. Plenty of smart people can be naïve, inexperienced, or otherwise ignorant in many ways, including romantically.

This I agree with but when you call someone that is naive etc a victim, you don't allow them the introspection to learn to never make the same mistake twice.

 

Peace.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Beendaredonedat

[crispytoast]

I think we can all agree that the guy is a douche. Autism or not. But the women have their own agency too. The guy is in New York City, the city where a 12y/o will rob you at gun point for your groceries. If you fall for some pickup artist telling you sweet words and get broken hearted because you slept with him and found out he wasn't sincere, you needed to learn the lesson because the world is full of people like that. He isn't doing anything criminal, he isn't forcing anyone to do anything. I've had women manipulate me and yeah it sucks, I don't think highly of them, but I'm not playing the victim card about it. I learned my lesson and kept moving, that's part of dating. You get over it and if you're smart you don't keep making the same mistakes.

 

Regarding the question in the OP, autism doesn't inherently make you angry at the world or manipulative. However the combination of social issues plus the world's reaction to it can certainly create a set of variables that would make someone understandably jaded. Depending on the degree that the individual lacks social skills, they might yes become angry at the world, lose empathy, and take it out on others, after all the luxury of being understood was not afforded to them. Does that make it right? No. But can I understand and empathize with the individual? Definitely. I wouldn't be this guy's friend but I have sympathy for him. I hope he can find peace because he's spent most of his life being beat on by the world.

Edited September 26, 2019 by crispytoast

[littleblackheart]

Agree with above to a degree: social exclusion sucks, PUA or not PUA.

 

Socially excluded men have an especially hard time dealing with rejection and isolation, and men on the spectrum even more so, imo.

 

Where the autism thing comes in, is that men are much more accepting of a woman's 'quirks' or 'oddities' than women are of a man's, at least in my experience. I don't know why that is, but it clearly compounds the issue for men on the spectrum.

 

But they too have their own agency. There are ways to learn coping mechanisms and social skills. They don't have to let the world 'beat them up'; their dx or their station in life do not define them, and they are still responsible for their own actions and state of mind.

 

It's not like this guy is an individual case, and it's not like he represents autistic men only either, as shown by the ever increasing community of 'incels', 'MGTOW' and PUA gurus. It's like we are cultivating ways to alienate each other further, instead of accepting each other's differences.

[Gretchen12]

Quick follow up on my previous question why there seems to be more autism these days. I did a bit of reading. It's not only because of advancement in our knowledge hence more diagnoses. In addition, research shows a father in his 40's is SIX times more likely to have an autistic child compared to fathers in their 20's. Six times is very substantial. And we know in recent years people are having children later in life. So that makes sense to me.

[basil67]

Gretchen, it's also genetic. Back in history, an autie may have ended up being a monk operating a printing press. These days, he or she may end up working high skilled tech/research job, meeting other tech/research nerds and having babies.

 

I meet so many parents who, after their child's dx, look at their family and recognise a pattern. Mum says that learning about my son has helped her understand why my dad is like he is.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I think we can all agree that the guy is a douche. Autism or not. But the women have their own agency too. The guy is in New York City, the city where a 12y/o will rob you at gun point for your groceries.

 

Actually, this guy is in Amsterdam. The post was just on the Humans of New York Facebook page.

[Mr. Lucky]

He is doing this by tricking them regarding the sincerity of his statements and his romantic intentions (see below).

 

I think you and Beendaredonedat are describing two different experiences.

 

A woman who beds a guy she met in a bar a few hours ago is not in a position to ascertain sincerity or determine romantic intentions and could hardly claim she was taken advantage of.

 

Someone who's been groomed and pursued over a longer period of time is more likely to have been mislead. Many of the guys I knew who were constantly on the prowl before PUA was even an acronym seemed to enjoy the chase as much as the catch, losing interest quickly once that occurred...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Moves Like Jagger]

PUA fans, this is why this stuff is so disgusting. It relegates women to an entitlement. And in the end, it doesn't get you a real relationship anyway.

 

As far as this particular PUA goes, is it his autism that makes him feel entitlted to the affections of women, or is he using it at as an excuse?

 

 

As I said in another forum, a lot of guys that struggle with dating never really socialized during their childhood and teen years because they spent a lot of time doing solitary things like reading or watching TV. They didn't have parents that encouraged them to be social because their parents were poor, or the parents were not particularly outgoing, or their parents grew up in some foreign culture that valued education over becoming a well-rounded person that participated in hobbies like sports or music. Not everybody had parents that could afford to buy cool clothes or that paid for a gym membership. Some guys were stuck with overprotective parents that made their shyness much worse.

 

A lot of these social misfits joined some Meetup groups. They helplessly watched how women gravitate toward the better looking or more confident guys. When the social misfit asks out a woman, the woman not only rejects him but tells her friends not to date him either. People gossip about him behind his back about how he's a weirdo or a creep. When the socially awkward guy takes responsibility by hiring a dating coach, people chastise him again for wasting money on some manipulative, con-artist. Society tells him to join a billion clubs or to ask women a lot of questions instead of telling him to wear nice clothes, take good pictures, or improve your social skills by expressing yourself. That's how I interpreter how society treats struggling guys really poorly.

 

I know that a lot of PUA teaching is manipulative and teaches guys to treat women as sex objects. My belief is you should use what is applicable to use (self-improvment) and to discard the rest (game-playing, treating women as sex objects, focusing on gimmicks instead of self-improvement). I think PUA tactics are much better than baraging women with a lot of questions. I remember a relationship advice forum where some guy was able to convince a bunch of women there into trolling the forum for him. The people at that forum spend more time flaming each other instead of discussing self-improvement.

 

I just don't get it. Memorizing some interesting things to say is bad. But joining a Meetup group and getting accused of sexual harassment because you made the terrible mistake of being quiet isn't that big a deal. I never understood why people who tell struggling guys to join a bunch of groups and do volunteering are free from criticism when a lot of people in society find quiet guys to be really creepy.

[Whoknew30]

The amount of ignorance pertaining to Autism in this post, is the saddest thing to read. Honestly it’s really embarrassing how many people will just type nonsense on a subject they know nothing about, just to have such an uneducated opinion.

 

Autism is neurological disorder that effects the brain. Someone with Autism is processing things completely different than a typical person. So the word douche & Autism in the same sentence can & only will be used by a person that’s severely ignorant to Autism.

 

It’s kind of ironic that a typical woman would use a post as an example of being objectified by a person that may not even truly understand what that means. Wrong example & this is a perfect example of why people with Autism are treated poorly...uneducated, ignorant, typical people that simply don’t try or want to understand them. Seriously do some research before you try to make someone with a disorder to look bad.

 

There’s plenty of typical people to work on first, like the people that commented that know nothing about neurological disorders...start with them!

[mark clemson]

It’s kind of ironic that a typical woman would use a post as an example of being objectified by a person that may not even truly understand what that means. Wrong example & this is a perfect example of why people with Autism are treated poorly...uneducated, ignorant, typical people that simply don’t try or want to understand them. Seriously do some research before you try to make someone with a disorder to look bad.

 

 

What baloney. We're not making him look bad, HE'S making him look bad.

 

I wouldn't say I know a lot about autism. But I strongly suspect that very few are total a-holes like that guy is.

 

If he's going around murdering people "because he's autistic" are we supposed to give him a pass on that as well?

Edited October 1, 2019 by mark clemson
punctuation

[Tristian]

Folks after editing a few posts I want to remind everyone that we frown on offensive terms being used to describe those with an intellectual disability.

 

 

Several will notice their posts have been edited. There are much better terms available. Intellectually disabled and Developmentally challenged come to mind. Please be respectful and opt for these terms rather then the alternative.

[chillii]

l know a lady not sure what you would call her condition.

Works in a supermarket and at first people are really nice to her sort of giving her support and like. But after awhile no one likes her anyway because she's that damn entitled has a real ride it all the way to the bank way about her.

Nothing nice about this women she doesn't deserve it.

Edited October 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude