crispytoast Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 @gretchen Studies are just studies. They represent the population that participates in the study. Who is making these studies? Who is participating? Where are you finding these studies. Where I live women prefer men with beards. I personally get much more attention when I have a beard, but I prefer to be relatively clean cut so I shave a lot anyway. But I live in a relatively woodsy town, and when I lived in a city it was the opposite. Different strokes for different folks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 What IF the guy is super shy, and he's doing it because everyone tells him to "get out of his shell and meet people"? I'm sure guys like that go to those things. You could be missing them utterly and making sure your username continues to check out. Even if he's a perfectly nice shy guy, if he's at a generic singles event approaching me as a total stranger, with no information about each other? The chances that we have anything in common are almost none! I have no need for a random warm body, even if the warm body is attached to a nice guy. If we don't fall into the same culture, I'm not interested, period. And why would a guy at a generic singles event be approaching me, anyway? I know for a fact I'm not the hottest girl in the room. Is he talking to me on a dare? Is he just desperate and I was the only one left? He can't possibly be interested in me personally because we're strangers. He can't even be after my money because he wouldn't know I had it. I'm not actually on the market at the moment anyway so it's all academic. Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I think what men fail to understand is that women are not as attracted by physical appearance.The majority of my rejections have been for physical appearance reasons. When I last used OLD, I didn't message 13/20 (on average) of the women's profiles I looked at because I didn't meet their physical attribute requirements. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 The majority of my rejections have been for physical appearance reasons. When I last used OLD, I didn't message 13/20 (on average) of the women's profiles I looked at because I didn't meet their physical attribute requirements. I don't know much about OLD, but from the sound of what guys are telling me, if you go by what they ALL say in their "requirements" in terms of physical attributes, they are all chasing one unicorn guy that practically none of them would ever get within a hundred yards of... If you hear many women talk(or post) then there would be no guy under 5'9" or worth less than a million dollars that would ever hope for a single date... It's all BS.....Just look around...There are guys of all types(most non typical) in happy relationships and doing well with women... And don't be surprised if these same women will use your physical attributes as way out of dating you, not because its true, but because its easier to say "you are too short", because you have no way of changing that .. TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Those surveys don't mean crap. I used to be a long haired guy back in the day, and I remember a similar study saying that 9 out of 10 women prefer a guy with short hair. Maybe true, but what those studies did not mention is that the 1 girl out of 10 that liked long hair, didn't just like it, she LOVED it. You don't need to appeal to everyone, just to someone, preferably a lot. Same here and found when your appeal is out of the mainstream a lot of the BS guys say women do just never happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 My man has a red beard...love it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mr_ybor Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) @gretchen Studies are just studies. They represent the population that participates in the study. Who is making these studies? Who is participating? Where are you finding these studies. Where I live women prefer men with beards. I personally get much more attention when I have a beard, but I prefer to be relatively clean cut so I shave a lot anyway. But I live in a relatively woodsy town, and when I lived in a city it was the opposite. Different strokes for different folks. Those surveys don't mean crap. I used to be a long haired guy back in the day, and I remember a similar study saying that 9 out of 10 women prefer a guy with short hair. Maybe true, but what those studies did not mention is that the 1 girl out of 10 that liked long hair, didn't just like it, she LOVED it. You don't need to appeal to everyone, just to someone, preferably a lot. ^ This. I don't get the mentality of the try to appease-the-most (or offend-the-least, however you want to look at it) approach to things. You deny people their own preferences and turn dating/mating into a Hitler youth-esque monolith. It's just a creepy concept, especially in 2019. Tons of women love guys with beards, I see women with fellow beardos all the time, tons of women love bald (shaved) guys, etc. Is that stuff the bulge of the bell curve? Probably not... but people out of the bulge of the bell curve are looking for love too, generally with similarly off the bugle of the bell curve types. I mean if we want to get really controversial about this, being a black woman gets off the bulge (*see Dataclysm) just as much as anything else. You gonna tell someone to bleach their skin? In the end, most people roll with one style or another to associate/feel comfortable with a particular crowd, and to broadcast that to similarly-minded individuals (and it's actually not generally about "eschewing social convention"). There's not a whole lot of a point to clean cutting / basic blonding yourself if that's not really your persona in the end. You just might end up with matches, but matches that are too conservative, into football, camping or whatever when you're more liberal, into live music, the art scene or whatever. That's not exactly "winning" at dating if there's no way it's gonna stick. My #1 crush right now has long, bright blue dyed hair. The female version of a hipster beard, I suppose... actually way less common. You can go to something like SuicideGirls and it's obvious that a good number of people are into that, or the tattoos, or piercings, etc. The world would be a boring place if we were all clones of the mathematical ideal, IMO. Edited September 30, 2019 by mr_ybor Link to post Share on other sites
Mysterio Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I don't want to approach anyone or be approached by anyone at a generic singles event! Because anyone who'd go to one of those is automatically not what I'm looking for. I like a guy who's a bit shy. The entire singles scene is pretty much ruled out. Now, if we're moving the situation to a party among my own social circles, where I might vaguely know something about the guy already and have evidence that he and I had some shared interests, then things are different. When I was younger my ideal was "pale guy with dark hair, blue eyes, wire-rim glasses, and wearing black". Major immediate bonus if he's got a good singing voice. Black leather jacket and motorcycle were also bonus points, though I prefer brooding loners over jerks. (And again, not going to find a lot of brooding loners at a singles event, am I?) Now that I'm older I'm less interested in ticking appearance boxes and more interested in judging people as individuals. Are they nice? Are they smart? Are they fun to talk to? Do we have enough things in common? Do they make me feel relaxed and happy, or nervous? So Sonny. Rivers Cuomo from Weezer is your cup of tea visually? Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Jon Snow, for instance, did have quite the following in his day. Just saying. "Women don't want a nice guy, they want an alpha who learns to be nice to her. They want to tame, heal, or soften the alpha hero's wild heart." The Book Outlines Wiki / A Billion Wicked Thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Game of Thrones Jon Snow? He's attractive, sure. Rivers Cuomo? I'm not familiar with him so I had to look up some pictures on google. If I'm being totally shallow, his hair is too short and his glasses are too thick for my ideal. But he looks just nerdy enough that if we ran into each other at a party held by a mutual friend and he wanted to talk to me, I'd smile and be interested enough to find out more about him. There's potential. I definitely don't want an 'alpha', but a lot of guys who describe themselves as 'nice' fail to realise that they have absolutely nothing going for them. They're barely even nice, and they're utterly boring. The reason they don't get dates isn't that they're "too nice", it's that they're wallpaper paste. There are guys in the world who really are too nice. Those guys DO get dates... with mean girls who walk all over them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 ... I definitely don't want an 'alpha', but a lot of guys who describe themselves as 'nice' fail to realise that they have absolutely nothing going for them. They're barely even nice, and they're utterly boring. The reason they don't get dates isn't that they're "too nice", it's that they're wallpaper paste. There are guys in the world who really are too nice. Those guys DO get dates... with mean girls who walk all over them. All so true, and hear many a self proclaimed “nice guy” is anything but when rejected. In my life I’ve found that “alpha” is just a code word for a**hole and used as an excuse to be one. Funny how all these self proclaimed “alphas” and wannabes are focused on picking up women with low self esteem. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) I suspect you're right about self-proclaimed alphas, at least many of them. Here's a bit more from the link I posted to give some context to what they're talking about. And yes, they are analyzing and drawing conclusions from romance novels (aka "lady porn") so this should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt. It certainly doesn't apply to all women. I do believe they're on to something though at least in terms of some tendencies. "Here are the 10 most common professions of the hero, based on an analysis of 15,000 Harlequin romances DoctorCowboyBossPrinceRancherKnightSurgeonKingBodyguardSheriff These professions are associated with status (no welders), confidence (no claims adjusters), and competence. Women are attracted to alpha males." So, it's more an issue of status and where the person ended up in life by their own efforts/skills, than a personality trait per se. At least how they mean it in this source. Edited October 2, 2019 by mark clemson punctuation Link to post Share on other sites
mr_ybor Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 ^ That ain't nothing! I'm the boss of the cowboy doctor ranchers. We got a good herd going this year. Gonna be some good cowboy doctors out there soon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 LOL Yeah that oughtta do it... Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Here's a bit more from the link I posted to give some context to what they're talking about. And yes, they are analyzing and drawing conclusions from romance novels (aka "lady porn") so this should be taken with a fairly large grain of salt. It certainly doesn't apply to all women. I do believe they're on to something though at least in terms of some tendencies. More like a glacier of salt.... Its just complete bullshyt..IME anyway... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 In my experience an awful lot of romance novel heroes don't have jobs at all, they're just born ruggedly handsome, filthy rich, and with misconceptions about the world that our plucky heroine can set straight. Really. In those books the hero is often a 'diamond in the rough', or as disney would put it, 'a bit of a fixer-upper'. He's perfect except for this one little problem: an obsession, a hot temper, being a playboy who wants a harem, thinking all women are stupid, whatever... Something that once our heroine gets her hands on him, she can fix, and then everything will be wonderful. though I expect it depends a lot on which books you read! "contemporary" romance usually involves jobs but I never read those, doctors and lawyers and cattle ranchers just aren't that interesting to me. If I'm going for the cozy escapism of a romance novel I want it to be as far from modern reality as possible. Give me castles and jewels and pirates and vampires. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 More like a glacier of salt.... Its just complete bullshyt..IME anyway... I respectfully disagree in that I think there some truth to it for some women. But I respect that you're of course entitled to your opinion and no doubt have some good reasons for your view. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 In those books the hero is often a 'diamond in the rough', or as disney would put it, 'a bit of a fixer-upper'. He's perfect except for this one little problem: an obsession, a hot temper, being a playboy who wants a harem, thinking all women are stupid, whatever... Something that once our heroine gets her hands on him, she can fix, and then everything will be wonderful. Indeed - interesting and that actually seems to be one of their conclusions. "Women don't want a nice guy, they want an alpha who learns to be nice to her. They want to tame, heal, or soften the alpha hero's wild heart." The Book Outlines Wiki / A Billion Wicked Thoughts I think I read somewhere else something to the effect that only her special unique love is what will bring the guy to ground/convert him to a loving family man loyal only to her etc. In a way it seems like the whole "plot arc" serves ultimately to validate the heroine's femininity (ie, her love, beauty, strength of personality, sexuality, etc). Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Taming the wild hero is absolutely a feature of classic romance novels. And yes, it serves to validate the 'feminine power' of the heroine. It makes her important and strong within the context of the story. I've seen other essays (sorry, can't find the link at the moment, but I remember reading this) talking about how one of the most fulfilling parts of a romance novel is that at some point in the story the hero will apologise for having been a jerk earlier, and that this is a major feminine power fantasy, being treated like your feelings matter. On the other hand, romance novels are fantasies and aren't necessarily any more relevant to what women really want than disney movies are. Some people will want that, especially if they have no other framework for how a relationship is supposed to work, but most women aren't really expecting to be kidnapped by a scottish laird and dragged off to his lonely stony castle. Link to post Share on other sites
mr_ybor Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 though I expect it depends a lot on which books you read! "contemporary" romance usually involves jobs but I never read those, doctors and lawyers and cattle ranchers just aren't that interesting to me. If I'm going for the cozy escapism of a romance novel I want it to be as far from modern reality as possible. Give me castles and jewels and pirates and vampires. Awww, you caught me. I'm really a vampire and the herd of cowboy doctors was being bred to be fed on. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 On the other hand, romance novels are fantasies and aren't necessarily any more relevant to what women really want than disney movies are. Some people will want that, especially if they have no other framework for how a relationship is supposed to work, but most women aren't really expecting to be kidnapped by a scottish laird and dragged off to his lonely stony castle. Quite true. However, I do think that a certain percentage of women, if they could have their rathers in life, would indeed "land" an attractive, wealthy and/or powerful man and have him fall so hard for her that he was loyal forever after, thus raising a family with superior means and her being the envy of all the other gals in her social circle, etc etc. I suspect that for some women there is a certain draw to the prospect of attempting to change or "fix" a "wild" male, such as an individualist, player/playboy, successful busy careerist, or even a criminal in some cases. And it seems like (quite unrealistically in some ways) her primary "weapon" in this game is love and the prospect of him developing a strong emotional attachment to her. Some are willing to "roll the dice" on a guy like this and see if they can win big. Occasionally they probably do, but of course quite often they get hurt. Seems like often they're attracted not only to the man, but also to the prospect of "supreme validation"? Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I'm really a vampire and the herd of cowboy doctors was being bred to be fed on. Being dominant over a whole herd of cowboy doctors is very sexy. Link to post Share on other sites
mr_ybor Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Being dominant over a whole herd of cowboy doctors is very sexy. Damn, now it just sounds gay when you put it that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Logo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) Asking what you do for a living, then immediately following with, "Does that pay well?" They don't even ask how much it pays. They know very well. Most immature women, especially 35 and under, are also attracted to men with glamorous careers, regardless of the pay or education. And much in the same way that men stare at boobs, women stare at chests, arms and a**es and they ogle shamelessly. Edited October 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Logo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 ......her being the envy of all the other gals in her social circle, etc etc. .................Seems like often they're attracted not only to the man, but also to the prospect of "supreme validation"? I had first hand experience with a couple of women like that. They were boring, had no depth, and needed a trophy to parade. I didn't stick around for long, but it was fun. Link to post Share on other sites
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