I'm afraid of talking and getting emotionally close with women.

[GuitarGuy7]

I have a hard time connecting with others and especially women. Many people describe me as a cold and distant person who's hard to get to know, because I have trouble being social and really connecting with people, especially with women. And I there's a reason for this.

 

Growing up, I had many bad experiences with women. All I really wanted was to have a girlfriend and to have someone want to be with me. But when I tried talking to girls and attempting to connect with them, I was met with many negative experiences. Due to my aspergers and not really knowing social cues very well, I was frequently called a "creep" and a "weirdo". I was brutally rejected, ignored, ghosted on, and treated like a disposable object, and all of that emotionally devastated me. All I ever wanted was just to feel wanted and accepted by women and instead, I was met with rejection and social ostracism, because I was different, because I weird and "creepy", maybe even a little ugly.

 

So as a result, I built this defense mechanism in my head with the logic being you can't be hurt again if you don't get involved. So I became more cold and emotionally distant towards women, I stopped talking to girls, I stopped trying to connect with them. People think I don't care about connecting with others when the truth is I actually care too much and I couldn't handle the social ostracism that came with the constant rejection I faced.

 

I don't know how to get a girlfriend, I really don't... I wasn't wired to connect with people like others are, so I doubt love will ever happen to me.

[d0nnivain]

The Asperger's makes this more challenging because you can't read social cues. There are therapists & coaches who can help you get better at this. I don't know the protocols but I know the help exists. Try working with a specialist. I found this but know nothing about it's validity: https://www.improveyoursocialskills.com/how-to-learn-social-skills-with-aspergers It doesn't seem that great but there were other sites when I searched the internet. One suggestion might be to find a local support group.

 

Good luck

[SumGuy]

GuitarGuy7

 

It does sound like you have sever anxiety and like said Asperger's adds another layer of difficulty. I understand there are many positive aspects to Asperger's, in the work environment in my experience a laser like focus and attention to detail.

Not everyone can understand different, heck a lot of people can't even understand ephemeral cultural differences of those a couple hundred miles or a generation away (elevating their milieu to some external objective truth).

There are those who can though, and even relish it.

 

Have you considered seeking a therapist to help? They may be hep you with strategies to overcome anxiety and past hurt and help you formulate a way to approach people to let them know of your neuro-difference.

[ZA Dater]

They may be hep you with strategies to overcome anxiety and past hurt and help you formulate a way to approach people to let them know of your neuro-difference.

 

Good suggestion but have you ever seen the way people look at a disabled person? The same holds true of anyone who dares not conform to society.

 

OP the best piece of advice I can give you is to not give a .... about what people think about you, live your life according to what makes you happy. There is a point where you unpack the entire dating thing and realise its sham, he with the best looks, biggest wallet, biggest whatever always win, you can go out there as a sweet kind person, you can take interest in others and still get metaphorically kicked in the face.

 

Be good to people, greet them, even if they don't greet you, smile them even if they don't smile at, set out each to be the best version of yourself and if you do that at the end of the each day you can hold your head up.

[normal person]

I have a hard time connecting with others and especially women. Many people describe me as a cold and distant person who's hard to get to know, because I have trouble being social and really connecting with people, especially with women. [...]

 

All I really wanted was to have a girlfriend and to have someone want to be with me. [...]

 

I don't know how to get a girlfriend, I really don't...

 

Part of what can be off putting about your threads to readers, and I imagine people in real life, is your lack of discernment. It never sounds like you want or like a specific person, seemingly your only objective is to figure out how to enter a relationship with and have sex with the first person who agrees to it. You don't want "her," you want simply "a girlfriend." Any girl, you don't care who it is. You create lists of women you plan to ask out who you've spoken to once or twice. What're you going to say when you sit down to dinner and she asks why you were so interested in her? "You were next on the list?" "You were the first one to say 'yes?'" I'm sure that will go over well. A woman will want to feel desired as an individual, not as someone or something just to fill a role for you. You're non-verbally communicating to everyone "I don't care about you, I care about solving my problem and you're the method I plan to use to do it." Are you really surprised you can't connect with women when you don't make any real, honest attempt to?

 

It's probably had the opposite affect. It all seems very calculated, inorganic, and desperate. It's likely made people want to avoid you. People, women especially, are incredible perceptive and subtle and they can sniff this out from miles away, and people who do that sort of thing are often given the scarlet letter of "creepy."

 

If you're worried that you can't form a connection with people, you should lose this whole tactic of blindly asking multiple women out before any connection is even made, and start from the ground up. Take a look and see what resources are available for you and nail the basics of human interaction before you try and navigate the minefield of nuances. See a professional, read some books, etc. There's only so much a message board can help.

[Ellener]

https://www.aane.org/ Aspergers/autism network has some online groups and east coast events, maybe other organisations do where you can get support from and socialize with people going through similar experience.

 

Connecting with a group, a counsellor, or online here/elsewhere is good- lots of people do understand and finding them will help you be positive and move forward from your pain.

 

Everybody's got something GuitarGuy7. We all do. Find what works for you.

[alphamale]

are you interested in girls with aspergers?

[elaine567]

... he with the best looks, biggest wallet, biggest whatever always win, you can go out there as a sweet kind person, you can take interest in others and still get metaphorically kicked in the face..

 

That is because being a sweet kind person taking an interest in others, is a given, it is basic stuff and there needs to be a lot more there to garner attraction.

If I am looking to hire a chef, the fact he makes great soup may be a bonus, but I am looking for a lot more from him than just that.

 

Everyone tends to want the best for themselves. Why put up with just "kind" if it is possible to attract, kind, interesting, funny, good looking and rich in the same individual..

 

A cold, distant person who is difficult to get to know, with Asperger's is not ever going to be popular with women.

They don't care about your difficult past life.

They see the person in front of them and if he doesn't match to what they want in a man, then it is a No.

Why would they want to sell themselves short?

Life is hard enough without dealing with emotionally unavailable, unsociable men with issues from their past.

She is not a therapist, she is not obligated to sort anyone out.

That is the bottom line.

The OP needs to be open to professional help and fast.

[ZA Dater]

 

Everyone tends to want the best for themselves. Why put up with just "kind" if it is possible to attract, kind, interesting, funny, good looking and rich in the same individual..

 

fast.

 

I agree with everything you say BUT SOME women seem to believe they just need to bat their eyelids and wear a low cut top to be deemed a "catch" whereas it sometimes appears men need to basically be the be all and end all get any sort of attraction.

 

I'd debate being kind and taking interest in others is a given based on the exceedingly rare number of times I have met people into the latter and former, well that can be a sham a lot of the time too.

 

Why cant the OP strive to attract those same people you mention? Just because he has Aspergers doesn't make him a lesser person, doesn't justify him being scorned by others or treated poorly.

 

Unfortunately society at large is shallow and maybe yes there a disconnect between wants and attainable but when you think about it if people never challenged what was attainable the world would be a very ordinary place.

 

OP honestly I doubt a therapist is the answer, you need to let yourself go sometimes, its exceedingly difficult because you wont want to open up which is why I think the friend zone might be a good start for you. You may actually find that offers you a lot of relationship benefits with very few of the drawbacks.

 

Elaine, unfortunately I think many women severely overstate their value, its usually these self same women who complain about men using them for sex, often very pretty but they offer nothing beyond looks. Whilst men should always strive to improve and offer a better all round package, women need to stop playing on their looks and equally strive to offer the same all round package.

 

OP I can relate to your experience to some degree but you also cant let it get to you, unfortunately in todays world much is made of people with apparent "conditions" but little is said of the general decay of morals in society so I'd argue that society itself is in a poor condition. If I were you, focus on having any conversation with women, I chat to ladies at my office all the time, about life in general, interests, all are married but you need to believe you can interact.

 

Unfortunately for anyone who dares be different dating is incredibly hard, again make sure you have goals in life and don't get consumed by dating, which is very easy to do. Again unfortunately most desirable women have tons of choice, you have two options

 

1: try and mimic that competition in the hope you can fit in and maybe compete.

2: say f...... it and be your own person and live happily in the knowledge you are you and no some fake version of yourself.

 

Or, get fit. I realised the other day its probably possible to play women at their own superficial "look at me I am busty, tall and pretty", get fit whichever way, maybe then women will look at you, as opposed to you having to beg and grovel to try impress them. Besides health benefits, it gives you something to focus on and in my case at least has made me feel better and ever so slightly more confident. I'd wager most women are every bit as superficial as men.

 

Lastly never believe in "cannot", "he cant", 'its hopeless" because believe that for too long and all of those become true. I have given up on dating, I tried it, did what the forum suggested but could never extract much good but what was good was very good and well the bad was very bad. Its worth the ride I think, never see yourself as typecast, ultimately we can choose how we see ourselves and we can influence how others see us. You can play that game to varying degrees.

[Gretchen12]

Listen to normal person above. You and other guys in your situation often have the same mentality in dating as trying to "get one of those". You say "GET a girlfriend", "get a loaf of bread", but then you'd say "FORM a friendship" or "MAKE friends" with other men. You see the difference?

 

I don't even think your real problem is women. It is other men. Were you raised without a father figure or male role model? As a baby you hang out with a mother, then all through childhood the teachers are all mostly women. Unless you have a good relationship with your father, you had only women.

 

Feelings of rejection go way back in childhood long before you hit puberty. You were not trying to get girls at six years old, but the problems with other children were already there. As an adult you focus on women because imo they're actually easier for you. This is why:

 

- most likely women raised you and nurtured you (mother, teachers)

- women are available through OLD (you can't get male friends online that way)

- simply by being male you feel you can get paired up with a female (birds and bees)

 

Common in all three is the entitlement. Mother and teachers make themselves available to you, women on OLD advertised themselves as available plus you paid subscription fees, you expect everyone is supposed to get paired up.

 

But then you try and it doesn't happen. Speaking for myself, I want to be with a man who can hold his own among other men. We live in society so that's kind of important.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

It all seems very calculated, inorganic, and desperate. It's likely made people want to avoid you. People, women especially, are incredible perceptive and subtle and they can sniff this out from miles away, and people who do that sort of thing are often given the scarlet letter of "creepy."

 

Normal's entire post was spot on, but this part, in particular, I wanted to comment on. It's so true, in general, but perhaps even more so in the age group GG is "targeting" because they are young women without (perhaps!) the life experience to be more sensitive to people who may be different.

 

When I was between my freshman and sophomore years of college I took a class at the local community college during the summer. One day after class (it may have even been the last day, I can't remember), a guy approached me and asked if I'd noticed that he and I had a "chemical" between us. (He meant chemistry). I was indeed creeped out because we had never had a conversation at all, so how in the world did he think we had chemistry? Looking back, and especially after reading a lot of posts on here from men who have trouble meeting women, I "get it" more, but that doesn't remove that fact that it made me feel super uncomfortable.

Edited September 25, 2019 by CautiouslyOptimistic

[Foxhall]

Every dog has his day buddy, dont lose sight of that,

 

how are you in terms of male friends,

 

I think this is an area where guys are better than girls,or at least not as harsh as girls, at accepting people for who they are, making allowances for and helping people out who have social difficulties and so on,

 

you only have to read Elaine's post there to realise what you can be up against with women at times. lol:D

not having a go at Elaine- she is a good poster- but you can appreciate women can be blunt!

 

 

I would not let that put you off though, that is where you have to be tough and say you are good as any beautiful looking woman and have the same crack at life and so on.

 

find yourself a social circle, get out playing football and so on,

 

you can learn to meet women on your own but with the help of a few good mates who will encourage you and show you the ropes you will find it easier.

 

another point always worth considering too is the women from the less affluent countries, they are nicer because they have not been raised to be spoilt and self centred and harsh which is prevalent in all the more affluent nations.

[GuitarGuy7]

 

how are you in terms of male friends,

 

I think this is an area where guys are better than girls,or at least not as harsh as girls, at accepting people for who they are, making allowances for and helping people out who have social difficulties and so on,

 

 

 

 

I actually do have a social life and a social circle.

 

I'm involved with several clubs at my college. I have a group of male friends from my church small group who I can talk to and get along with.

 

I also have a good friend who has a social circle of his own that I can hangout with sometimes and we play video games together. Another girl from that group, I can talk to and she's nice and friendly towards me. She's married so I don't have to worry about trying to hit her up anything, but I do enjoy talking to her sometimes.

 

 

And I do agree, I think that men can be more forgiving of your weirdness and quirkiness (at least the men I know are) while women are much more likely to think you're a creep or a weirdo or something, lol.

[GuitarGuy7]

When I was between my freshman and sophomore years of college I took a class at the local community college during the summer. One day after class (it may have even been the last day, I can't remember), a guy approached me and asked if I'd noticed that he and I had a "chemical" between us. (He meant chemistry). I was indeed creeped out because we had never had a conversation at all, so how in the world did he think we had chemistry? Looking back, and especially after reading a lot of posts on here from men who have trouble meeting women, I "get it" more, but that doesn't remove that fact that it made me feel super uncomfortable.

 

 

 

 

I don't think the majority of men are dangerous to women, but I think that many men who get get labelled as "creeps" are just socially awkward men who never really learned how to socialize with women the right away, and also have no idea how romance works.

 

 

Because it's hard to go approach a girl you like and not be labeled as a creep, especially if you're socially awkward and don't really know what you're doing. A lot of men who struggle with women watch PUA content which may tell them that when you're talking to a girl, you can't be boring and you have to open with something funny or quirky, but when the guy tries it on a girl, it comes off as weird, uncomfortable, or even offensive.

 

And the funny thing is that when the girl gets weirded out and later ditches him, ghosts him, etc... the guy oftentimes has no idea what he's doing wrong. And the natural tendency is to blame his failure on his looks. He may say something along the lines of "Well maybe if I were 6 ft tall and a Chad as opposed to 5 ft 8 and average looking, she may have actually given me a chance".

 

Let's face it, a lot of guys don't know what the hell they're doing. I mean I certainly don't.

[mark clemson]

Think that is true. Also totally agree that working on your social skills is a very major piece of this puzzle. Forget PUA and incel stuff IMO, they will just keep you stuck in a mindset that probably won't work for you and isn't constructive. Look for resources that can improve your social ability. Apply what you learn to both men and women to get as much practice as you can.

 

Things change over time and I believe the unfortunate truth is there are many women such as 30-somethings with a kid or two or some lonely in middle age who would take a man, almost literally any man, into their life to avoid being alone. So, keep at this, keep working on improving, and realize that whatever success you may or may not have in your earlier years, time will actually be very much on your side.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I have a group of male friends from my church small group who I can talk to and get along with.

 

How big is your church?

 

My cousin has Asperger's. He got married about 8 years ago maybe? He was in his early thirties. They have a baby now. He was, and still is, very involved in his church, small groups, etc. I am pretty sure he probably met his wife at church, although I am not positive about that. But, I know they are both very involved in church activities.

 

Is there a singles group at your church or any volunteer activities? The church I attend ("attend".....hardly ever) is really big and there are so many outreach type opportunities like feeding the homeless, etc.

[Gretchen12]

I have a group of male friends from my church small group who I can talk to and get along with.

 

What do they say when you talked to them about this? Surely you should take their advice over what you get from strangers on a forum.

[elaine567]

I don't think the majority of men are dangerous to women, but I think that many men who get get labelled as "creeps" are just socially awkward men who never really learned how to socialize with women the right away, and also have no idea how romance works.

 

Being "creeped out" is a response to an ambiguous threat.

 

creepiness is anxiety aroused by the ambiguity of whether there is something to fear, and/or by the ambiguity of the precise nature of the threat—sexual, physical violence, or contamination, for example—that might be present.

 

A socially awkward man who is not acting "normally" is seen as a potential threat to a woman.

Not a threat she feels the need to run away from immediately (like a guy wielding an axe in a threatening manner), but a threat all the same.

She thus goes on the defensive to remove that threat.

She attempts to shut him down, often with her body language or polite words.

If he persists, which he often does as he cannot read subtle hints, she gets a bit annoyed.

He may then invade her personal space in an attempt to be friendly, so she gets scared.

She will then get nasty towards him and then angry.

She wants nothing to do with him, she sees him as abnormal and thus scary. She gets angry, she hates him...

 

"Fear leads to panic,

Panic leads to pain,

Pain leads to anger,

Anger leads to hate. "

 

Some women will see him a mile off and thus will shut him down right away and urge her friends to do the same...

People in general are not usually very comfortable with strangeness and weirdness, so the instinct is to avoid completely, ignore, shoo away or run away.

Socially awkward men need to be able to read the signs of discomfort in women, and rescue the situation before it gets to the nasty stage...

They also need to try to "fit in" better and not appear "weird".

Improving and practising social skills is key.

Yes, we should be a more tolerant society, but a lot of our reactions are still primal, and that is not going to change anytime soon, I guess.

[SumGuy]

What do they say when you talked to them about this? Surely you should take their advice over what you get from strangers on a forum.

What! Bite your tongue. Next you'll say everything on the internet is not true.

[d0nnivain]

I'm involved with several clubs at my college.

 

 

College is the easiest time in life to meet people. For some reason I thought you were older like in your 30s.

 

First, deep breath. Women haven't been mean to you. Immature girls have been. It's gets better & less scary as people mature. Children are cruel. Because people become or should become more sensitive as they age, I hope there is less likelihood that you will encounter the mean ones.

 

Second, it's about trust. Don't just dive in to dating. In college, that is too fast. Use your church & your clubs to get to know the coeds you find attractive. Befriend them, not in the sense of friend zoning yourself but build a rapport, let them know they can trust you & count on you. Let them get to know you. As you get a sense you can trust them, talk about the challenges of your condition, having trouble recognizing social cues etc.

 

Third, do get help. Assuming your school has some sort of counseling program reach out to get professional insight how to overcome the challenge you face.

 

Fourth, try to remember that even people who don't have Asperger's suffer degrees of social anxiety. Everybody is afraid of making a fool of themselves or of being hurt. Even the kids who look like they have the world on a string still have these fears. It's Normal!

[d0nnivain]

At lunch I read an article about a woman with Autism who managed to go to college & graduate from Law School. Her name is Haley Moss. In college she wrote a book about her experiences called A Freshman Survival Guide for Students with Autism Spectrum Disorders: The Stuff Nobody Tells You About. Perhaps read that book. In addition, Ms. Moss serves on the board of directions for Different Brains. https://www.differentbrains.org/ please check out that organization & the book.

 

I have faith that you will flourish in college with a few additional coping skills

[normal person]

I don't think the majority of men are dangerous to women, but I think that many men who get get labelled as "creeps" are just socially awkward men who never really learned how to socialize with women the right away, and also have no idea how romance works.

 

It doesn't really matter whether or not they're actually dangerous. The perceived threat is still real, why would a woman give someone the benefit of the doubt when the potential downside is so great?

 

Because it's hard to go approach a girl you like and not be labeled as a creep, especially if you're socially awkward and don't really know what you're doing.

 

Have you ever considered that the best course of action might be to not "approach" someone who clearly isn't interested you? You're already fighting an uphill battle if you have to approach and essentially "convince" or trick her. A woman will let you know if you she likes you in one way or another. You should stick to women you like who give you the positive signs, not the ones who you don't know who don't give you any.

 

You could always just build relationships and rapport the conventional ways, without an ulterior motive, let your merits speak for themselves, and see if the people you learn about and like reciprocate the feelings.

 

 

A lot of men who struggle with women watch PUA content which may tell them that when you're talking to a girl, you can't be boring and you have to open with something funny or quirky, but when the guy tries it on a girl, it comes off as weird, uncomfortable, or even offensive.

 

This sounds like trying to trick someone. It's coming across calculated and deceitful, and more often than not, I'm sure people notice. It reminds me of times I'd be at the bar and some strange guy would sidle up to a female friend of mine and ask her if she wanted to see a card trick or something, and everyone would roll their eyes and groan. It seems to me the only way for this stuff to have the desired outcome is be particularly good at manipulating people and situations, and to do that, you have to be a certain kind of creep. If you're not, you just look like desperate and socially inept, which is basically kryptonite to female attraction.

 

And the funny thing is that when the girl gets weirded out and later ditches him, ghosts him, etc... the guy oftentimes has no idea what he's doing wrong. And the natural tendency is to blame his failure on his looks. He may say something along the lines of "Well maybe if I were 6 ft tall and a Chad as opposed to 5 ft 8 and average looking, she may have actually given me a chance".

 

You assume that if someone doesn't like you, you did something "wrong," and if you had only just not done that one thing, everything would've worked out in your favor. Wrong. The majority of people you encounter simply just won't be interested in you for whatever reason. It's not like they have some launch code that if entered correctly, they will suddenly be attracted to you. Rather than assume you have a chance until she shows you otherwise, you should think about it the opposite way: she's not interested until she shows you she is.

 

Or, maybe what's "wrong" is that if your whole relationship with someone is based around tricking them with inauthenticity, it's bound to fail when you have little to no actual base of commonality. I usually like girls in large part because of their personalities, not because they gave me some rehearsed line and tricked me into a relationship.

 

 

You should lose all the lists of girls, PUA trickery, "approaching," etc. Focus on building organic connections with people, not this other stuff which has gotten you absolutely nowhere.

Edited September 26, 2019 by normal person

[Woggle]

At the end of the day women are flesh and blood people who at the end of the day are not much different than men beside the obvious. Approach them from that angle. They are human just like anybody else.

[Envy123]

Alright, story time. A comparison on when I was unsuccessful with every woman and when I was successful with some women.

 

Unsuccessful: Private secondary. I was overly enthusiastic and wanted to be with any girl. No-one, not even the guys, took me seriously.

 

Successful: State secondary, my former retail job and swimming lessons. I was in a new environment and needed to get used to my surroundings, so wasn't looking for love, but some girls did show interest to me.

 

Also, you don't necessarily need to look like a "Chad" to be successful with some women at least. I have a double chin, a big belly and some acne in random places - but I am more successful with women overall than when I was thinner. Attitude is an important factor.

[Gretchen12]

They are human just like anybody else.

 

Haha thanks for declaring half of the human race to be indeed human I've read this more than once on LS and it still cracks me up every time. It's actually both funny and sad that it has to be said.