Amazon Hub Locker use (dropbox) breaks trust??

[FastOreo]

I'm looking for some outside opinions on a major disagreement I have with my wife regarding use of Amazon Hub Locker (dropbox) and would like it if you would comment with your thoughts.

 

Here’s the situation. We’re having marital difficulties and there was a book I wanted to purchase called “Divorce Busting” (recommended from this site) to hopefully get some good advice about what I could do to help our marriage survive. Normally, I would have purchased the Kindle version on Amazon and read it at my leisure on my phone (my preferred method of reading books these days). Unfortunately, the title was from 1993 and Amazon didn’t carry a Kindle version so I needed to get a physical copy.

 

With no brick and mortar shops selling the book, my only option was to buy from Amazon and have it shipped. My wife opens every package we get, whether it’s addressed to her or not and, feeling like she would strongly criticize me at the time for ordering a book about our marriage, I decided to have it sent to an Amazon dropbox for pickup and not deal with her reaction.

 

When it arrived, I had some errands to run and was watching the kids, so I took them with me and we swung through a Whole Foods to pick it up. Later that night, my youngest told my wife we stopped by Whole Foods to pick up a package and my she asked me what it was. I told her it was a book about our marriage, and then she started to flip out that I had it delivered elsewhere from the house and was a “lying, sneaky snake” that couldn’t be trusted about anything. She is now trying to get a divorce because she thinks she can never trust me again.

 

My take. This reaction is completely unwarranted, and it is a crazy leap from me picking up a book from Amazon dropbox to, I can be trusted for nothing (ie: I could have secret bank accounts, affairs, etc., because I picked up a book at an Amazon dropbox location). In my opinion, picking it up from a dropbox is no different from me picking it up from a WalMart or Target in person, as would have been done years ago. It’s also no different from me having it electronically delivered to my phone. Why is this any different? This book is only one of three items I’ve ever had delivered and picked up from an Amazon dropbox. The first was a pair of sunglasses my wife needed for a bike ride fundraiser we picked up during the event in June, then a marriage book in July, and another in August (this one). That’s it. I don’t normally have packages delivered to work or this dropbox other than these two marriage books.

 

My wife’s take is that this is lying to her, it breaks all trust, and is grounds for divorce. Almost a reaction one might have to finding out they’ve been cheated on, but it’s about a book being delivered to a dropbox. She thinks this shows I have something to hide and can’t be trusted and so hasn’t talked to me in over a month and has set time with an attorney to discuss divorce in two weeks.

 

I am exasperated and wanting to know what others think. My wife gets books too, but since she was stay at home, she’s able to open delivered packages up when they arrive and put away without me knowing and I don’t feel this is any different. The book is in my desk (don’t want kids seeing the title), it’s in my Amazon purchase history which is shared with my wife (along with all my other banking/shopping passwords via LastPass), and I’m hiding nothing, other than I didn’t want to parade it in front of her and deal with her criticisms on it.

 

To me, the dropbox is no different than buying something at Walmart or Target. Or having something delivered home (like she does) and putting it away without advertising to each other every single item that comes into our house. Yes, I purposefully had it delivered somewhere else because I didn’t want to deal with her reaction, but I don’t think that’s any different from the other options I mentioned above, and certainly not grounds for divorce or this kind of reaction, especially when there’s visibility to all my purchases (even more so than Target/Walmart) through my online order history.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 27, 2019 by FastOreo

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Yes, I purposefully had it delivered somewhere else because I didn’t want to deal with her reaction?

 

Well that didn't work out as planned! What was her reaction in July when you did the same thing?

[schlumpy]

I'm terribly sorry but you need to get on the ball.

 

She's just using this as an excuse to get of the marriage. I don't know what her true reasons are but if I were you I would start digging around for the real explanation.

 

She's already way of you and most likely hoping the shock of what is happening will make you malleable so that she get a nice exit package. She's taken the initiative and control of the situation while you worry about getting a book from a drop box. This has nothing to do with a book.

 

It's time to replace your passive attitude with some hardened steel or you will find yourself on the street and financing her new life without you.

[mark clemson]

I think Schlumpy make a great point.

 

My take is that either:

 

a) she's looking for excuses to divorce (as per Schlumpy) or

 

b) she is blowing up/using the threat of divorce in an attempt to regain a perceived loss of dominance/control in the marriage or

 

c) she's using this (dysfunctionally) to let it sink in for you just how unhappy she is these days

 

 

IF you think it's B) you might ask yourself (or a marriage counselor) why she has such a strong need for control. Insecurity? Feels threatened?

 

This is your first post - are their some good reasons you haven't mentioned why she'd be calling you a "lying, sneaky snake" or is it really that she's just apparently flipping out/making a mountain out of a molehill? What's the history/"marital difficulties" you alluded to here?

 

Are you in a sexless marriage or otherwise not having major needs met? I ask because I think it might be germane to understanding the bigger picture with what's going on in your M.

[FastOreo]

Well that didn't work out as planned! What was her reaction in July when you did the same thing?

No, it most definitely didn't work out as planned. Oh the irony. The first book I picked up on my own after work and nothing was said until the issue came up over this second book where i let her know it's one of three pickups I've ever done from a dropbox (sunglasses for her, and these two books in July and August).

[FastOreo]

I'm terribly sorry but you need to get on the ball.

 

She's just using this as an excuse to get of the marriage. I don't know what her true reasons are but if I were you I would start digging around for the real explanation.

 

She's already way of you and most likely hoping the shock of what is happening will make you malleable so that she get a nice exit package. She's taken the initiative and control of the situation while you worry about getting a book from a drop box. This has nothing to do with a book.

 

It's time to replace your passive attitude with some hardened steel or you will find yourself on the street and financing her new life without you.

Thanks Schlumpy. I think you're right that it is but one piece of a larger desire to be out of the relationship and that has been around for years. We have four young kids and I have happier memories from the past I cling to that are keeping me around. I really do not want to end it because of hope it can be fixed and because I want the kids to have some stability around the house as they grow up, but it could be futile, wasted effort.

[FastOreo]

I think Schlumpy make a great point.

 

My take is that either:

 

a) she's looking for excuses to divorce (as per Schlumpy) or

 

b) she is blowing up/using the threat of divorce in an attempt to regain a perceived loss of dominance/control in the marriage or

 

c) she's using this (dysfunctionally) to let it sink in for you just how unhappy she is these days

 

 

IF you think it's B) you might ask yourself (or a marriage counselor) why she has such a strong need for control. Insecurity? Feels threatened?

 

This is your first post - are their some good reasons you haven't mentioned why she'd be calling you a "lying, sneaky snake" or is it really that she's just apparently flipping out/making a mountain out of a molehill? What's the history/"marital difficulties" you alluded to here?

 

Are you in a sexless marriage or otherwise not having major needs met? I ask because I think it might be germane to understanding the bigger picture with what's going on in your M.

Thanks Mark. I definitely think there's a need for control here that's being exercised but I think it's also part of a larger story she's building that I can't be trusted. However the basis for it is that I lie/fib/omit in similar scenarios in the past. Where she's right that I lied to her in the past goes back over 21 years before we were married and I lied about whether there was a sexual encounter on a date I had. We were not officially dating but she felt we were getting back together and considered it cheating. I came clean with her about it after we did start officially dating again but it's clouded our relationship since with mistrust.

 

To answer your question on whether the M is sexless, the answer is yes, and that was actually the other book delivered to the dropbox. Again, that book was not something I wanted her views on (at the time) and not something I wanted the kids asking questions about, so I wanted to pick it up privately. We've been sexless for over 3 months now and before that it was about about once monthly. Definitely on a strong downhill slide and further along on this path of divorce than we've ever been. Still sleep in the same bed/room but it's a roommate like relationship. Actually worse given the silent treatment that is also going on.

 

I am definitely not perfect and am responsible for some of this but I feel most of what she's angry or worried about is stretched beyond reality and more in her head than real. There is complaint or anger over just about everything I do, and everything is end of the world type material, like this.

 

Earlier this summer there were arguments around workload and being true partners. I got frustrated/angry with her leaving much of the housework to me, or not be done at all, and she of course was angry I would think such a thing (our four kids are full time students, grades 1-6). By the end of the summer, she decided to get a temporary job just before the school season started, but blames my criticism of her work as the reason she HAD to get a job, though I never told her she had to. I just wanted to feel like while I was at work all day, she was also working on household needs. I definitely could have been wrong in expecting that but it was how I felt.

 

The other piece is that she is majorly depressed. She would say it's because of me/our relationship, but I think it's something she had before we were married/dating as well. This April she went off her anti-depressants because they didn't seem to be working and hoped to see if depression was any better without or try something new. So far, she's still off of them, and I think a lot of her reactions are tied to her anxiety and depression. However, her attitude and our interactions were bad for several years before she went off meds; it's just amplified right now by 3 or 4 times.

[S2B]

That’s not a normal reaction. Does SHE intend to divorce?

 

Where does she work? Have you dropped in to take her to lunch?

 

She is disrespecting you!!! You should be able to order whatever you want to.

 

You should tell her this reaction is exactly why you didn’t have the book delivered at home.

 

Why are you so afraid of divorcing her? She certainly doesn’t seem to want to give 100% of her love and trust to this marriage! Have you asked her why there’s no sex?

 

I’d suggest divorcing her since she seems to criticize you so easily.

 

She also seems to be your worst enemy - that’s not the qualities of a life partner.

Edited September 27, 2019 by S2B

[preraph]

You can't win this on a technicality, Dude. Her issue isn't really that you're sneaky but that she now knows you are thinking about divorce, so better sit down and talk to her about things.

[S2B]

You need to start checking on her cheating.

 

Your evidence points to that possibility.

 

When did sex stop and what reason did she give?

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Ok, so a trust issue, emotional issues, probably happiness issues, pettiness, arguing, sex live starting to go down the tubes, thoughts of divorce and even open mention, etc. Sounds very much like the wheels have been coming off the train for a while now.

 

My thought would be to get the two of you into MC ASAP and also work on more open communication before simply opting for divorce. However, you should be prepared for it at least psychologically in case she's already made up her mind (or in case you start to really feel things are untenable).

 

Ordinarily I'd suggest getting free consults from a family attorney just so you get a realistic picture of what divorce might look like in your state. (Many will do free 1/2 hrs and you can do several to get all your Qs answered). However, IF your wife figures out you did this, she may get REAL freaked out on you, etc. So, you'll have to think carefully whether it's worth the risk.

 

One think that might help once she's calmed down a bit would be to instigate morning cuddling (not necessarily with sex) most mornings. This may help her to realize you still care for her.

 

GL man, I have a feeling you will need it.

[FastOreo]

That’s not a normal reaction. Does SHE intend to divorce?

 

Where does she work? Have you dropped in to take her to lunch?

 

She is disrespecting you!!! You should be able to order whatever you want to.

 

You should tell her this reaction is exactly why you didn’t have the book delivered at home.

 

Why are you so afraid of divorcing her? She certainly doesn’t seem to want to give 100% of her love and trust to this marriage! Have you asked her why there’s no sex?

 

I’d suggest divorcing her since she seems to criticize you so easily.

 

She also seems to be your worst enemy - that’s not the qualities of a life partner.

@S2B, yes I believe SHE intends to divorce. She's meeting with an attorney on the 7th to discuss options since she doesn't feel she can trust me anymore. Before that, however, she was talking about meeting with a mediator to divorce as well. The difference is now, because I had a book delivered to a dropbox, I can't be trusted and she thinks I could be living double lives, holding secret bank accounts, seeing other people; sky's the limit. I'm doing none of those things, but that's where her head is at.

 

She works quite a distance from me and hasn't had time during the day to even take lunch for herself at work so I'm sure I would be unwelcome to swing through for lunch. Even if she had time, I don't think she'd be interested at all. We used to do that years ago, but we are in a far different place today.

 

I would agree I'm being disrespected and this shouldn't be as big of a deal as she's made it. I don't know how to get her to think differently about it but I think core of the issue, as I'm hearing from the posts here, is that's she's basically already done and doesn't care for or respect me enough to make an effort. This is just a permutation of that.

 

Like you mentioned I did tell her that her meltdown reactions to news she doesn't like is exactly why I keep my mouth shut most of the time. It's just not worth the hell I go through. Otherwise, being able to have stuff like this delivered home, or for me to be more open with my thoughts/feelings would happen more.

 

There's no sex because she's always tired, angry, stressed by kids or myself, having her period, or simply not interested. I don't think it's because she's cheating on me or anything else, as she is truly exhausted most of the time, going to bed early, taking naps, etc. I feel like if we could solve depression, we might have a shot at solving the energy problem, thus solving some of the sex issues, anxiety, and quick temper. But it's been really hard to try and get the depression part figured out. We've been working on it over 15 years with little progress.

 

There are definitely days I feel divorce might be the best option as well because of all the criticism, disrespect, silent treatment, and fighting, but keep thinking things will change for both of us. If she just gets healthy, things will be better. If I read enough marriage/depression books, I'll know what to do/say. When the kids get older, we'll have less stress. Etc. History would say those things will never change, and I'm sure advice here would be similar, but I still care for her and would love nothing more than for this relationship to work out and become healthy and happy.

[amaysngrace]

A man who is trying to hide something doesn’t bring their children as witnesses.

 

She sounds like a real piece of work, your wife.

[FastOreo]

You can't win this on a technicality, Dude. Her issue isn't really that you're sneaky but that she now knows you are thinking about divorce, so better sit down and talk to her about things.

@preraph, She's the one thinking about and taking action toward divorce, not me (at least not yet).

[FastOreo]

Hmm. Ok, so a trust issue, emotional issues, probably happiness issues, pettiness, arguing, sex live starting to go down the tubes, thoughts of divorce and even open mention, etc. Sounds very much like the wheels have been coming off the train for a while now.

 

My thought would be to get the two of you into MC ASAP and also work on more open communication before simply opting for divorce. However, you should be prepared for it at least psychologically in case she's already made up her mind (or in case you start to really feel things are untenable).

 

Ordinarily I'd suggest getting free consults from a family attorney just so you get a realistic picture of what divorce might look like in your state. (Many will do free 1/2 hrs and you can do several to get all your Qs answered). However, IF your wife figures out you did this, she may get REAL freaked out on you, etc. So, you'll have to think carefully whether it's worth the risk.

 

One think that might help once she's calmed down a bit would be to instigate morning cuddling (not necessarily with sex) most mornings. This may help her to realize you still care for her.

 

GL man, I have a feeling you will need it.

@mark you've got a really good grip on this situation. Thanks for your response. Yes, there are a lot of issues behind this topic and none easily solved. The wheels have certainly been coming off the train for quite a while; that is an understatement.

 

I would love to, and have suggested, doing marriage counseling but she refuses. We've seen many MC over the years and, to her point, we still find ourselves in this situation. I think it would be good, like this forum, to get a 3rd party point of view on this dropbox nonsense, but even if that issue were off the table, there would be 40 other issues behind it. So, probably not an option for us. I personally have been meaning to connect with my family counselor, but haven't yet, probably because I know her advice would probably be to get out of the relationship as well. Last time I saw her was three years ago and the story was the same.

 

My wife has no problem talking to divorce attorneys and did so once before in 2015 and has lined up an appointment on the 7th to do so again, so she wouldn't be freaked out or anything if she knew I was doing the same thing. I think I'm in denial that there's any good reason to end the relationship but if she continues, I will probably be forced to get my own attorney as well and put an end to it. Not at all what I want, but I'm probably dreaming things will ever get better.

 

I appreciate the advice on cuddling.

[FastOreo]

A man who is trying to hide something doesn’t bring their children as witnesses.

 

She sounds like a real piece of work, your wife.

Exactly amaysngrace.

[kendahke]

Thoughts?

 

She's hunting for reasons to divorce and your kid busted you wide open to her.

 

I think she's a bit unbalanced trying to force that non sequitur onto this. How receiving a book on how to save your marriage is equal to you not being trustworthy is the product of an overactive, fevered imagination. Is she on medication for this?

 

I think you need to learn when some things aren't worth the hassle--just divorce her.

[mark clemson]

Fair enough and sorry to hear that. If she has an appt with a divorce attorney lined up, well that says a lot. Guess it will be a matter of how serious she is and if she isn't whether you decide to keep trying.

[preraph]

Well then either she's mad that you're resisting divorce or she doesn't have a clue what that book is about. Or she is just down to her very last nerve and anything sets her off. Anyway no point in fighting about small things like that when you could be trying to talk realistically about whether you should divorce.

[Mr. Lucky]

She's meeting with an attorney on the 7th to discuss options since she doesn't feel she can trust me anymore.

 

Surprised you led this thread with the book scenario, it's really a red herring as regards your marital situation. You don't get to this level of anger, resentment and sexlessness through an Amazon package locker.

 

FastOreo, I'm afraid any deep analysis is besides the point. A spouse that won't go to MC, gaslights you on everyday actions and is meeting with a divorce attorney is pretty much done. And you don't really paint much of a picture why you'd want to stay married to her anyway.

 

If she's talking to a lawyer on the 7th, I'd go see one on the 6th. Time to get your ducks in a row...

 

Mr. Lucky

[S2B]

She’s cheating!

 

Why aren’t you checking to see who it’s with?

 

 

And why are you willing to believe all the lame excuses she’s giving you for her not being a good wife?

 

I’d get mad. She isn’t even trying in this ‘marriage’!

 

You have NO idea if she gets lunch or not! Also no idea if she takes lunch to trot off with someone else! Stop believing what she tells you!

 

If nothing else - she’s using EXCUSES to NOT be a good wife and mother!

 

You tell her “you haven’t been a wife for a long time so ending the marriage doesn’t leave me with less”!

 

Consider filing FIRST - the marriage has been over long ago.

[Gretchen12]

She is either not processing her feelings or expressing them in error. It's not that she can't trust you. What she really wants to say is that you don't trust her.

 

It's not unusual for this type of inversion to happen, because it's a duality. There could be different reasons for the inversion. It could be she has guilt over something she did behind your back. Or, it could simply be that you really don't trust her to not give you a hard time if she had opened the package.

 

In the latter case, she feels like she's in the role of the ol' battle axe, and she feels unlovable because she's not trusted. That is, you expect the worst from her, and she wants to give up.

 

I'm giving you different possibilities. But the depression is the one thing that most threatens, or is ending, your marriage. For some (I think often more men than women), depression manifests itself as anger. It's a totally irrational anger. The person can just wake up angry. Also, depression could just be one factor of other problems.

[S2B]

An affair would explain the depression and her need to divorce.

[ExpatInItaly]

As the others have already pointed out, this really isn't about a single order to an Amazon dropbox. At all.

 

She's using it as a springboard out of the marriage, though. My guess is that she's wanted out for a while, and doesn't want anyone to blame her for pulling the plug. So she makes it your fault and manufactures tales of secret double-lives to support her narrative. I am sure a big part of her knows this is a fabrication on her part, but she is beyond caring about that. She just wants to be done and doesn't want anyone criticizing her for it. This is deflection on an absurd level. Is she hiding something? Perhaps. Whether she is or not, it is clear your marriage has been in trouble a long time and is fast unraveling now.

 

You need to consult an attorney yourself now. Find out what your rights and obligations will be in the likely event of a formal separation. Start preparing for a new phase of your life.

Edited September 29, 2019 by ExpatInItaly

[Doorstopper]

She's vilifying you as an excuse for her behavior. It all goes back to her depression and getting off the meds. She's decided that you are the cause of her issues, so meds are not necessary. She may not be cheating, but given the chance she will. My wife tried coming off her meds a couple of times and became an absolute bear. Even on them, its not easy, but hopefully is getting better. As soon as I noticed changes, we had a long talk about how it could not continue like this and she got back on.

 

Your cat is out of the bag, through no fault of your own, I don't know how you can reason with someone who is unreasonable.

 

Good Luck!