Wife moved out

[preraph]

I think it would be good for the kids. 

[Ias61489]

3 hours ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

You can't.  When money becomes an issue, everyone who thinks they are gonna have an amicable divorce learn real fast that's not the case.  I've seen it over and over with my friends.  And myself.  She can bully and bully and bully you until you cave (like I did), but I do not recommend that.  You both are entitled to 50/50 custody.  Period.  If that means she has to pay child support, it is what it is.  You didn't make the laws.  If she wants to change the law, let her take it up with a state representative!   

Keep the TV.  You bought it for a good reason.  If you must, I guess you could give her the one in your bedroom.  Do you use it a lot?  

According to the lawyers I sat down with I dont have much of a choice in terms of support and the last one that was a women said that even if i signed away full custody to her It wouldn't get through the courts. 

I hate to be like this but I need something and for anyone that hast read through it all, When I met her she was broke and just had to quit her post office job shortly after we got together because her mom wouldn't watch her kids and she couldn't afford child care. She started working at Bed Bath and Beyond and after things got more serious we made the choice for me to watch the kids full time and she would try build a career at the post office. I have been on comp since before I was dating her. 

I was able to live off my income prior to kids without issue but not now. Theres no way It can happen, especially all that Disney debt added on.

The other day I asked her if we were just gonna split the savings account (which would give me enough to get rid of my expensive car and pay cash for something but she said she's waiting until its all over and there's not gonna be much left to split between her lawyer, New apartment and she's been paying down her debt with it. She doesn't wanna give me any of the tax return either.

I dont wanna cave, I cannot afford too but then I'm feeling bad about the fact she is moving into a new place in 2 weeks and 1 she cant afford it anyway and 2 once we finish here she def wont be able to afford it. It will affect my kids also as she likes to bring up a lot. 

All of them get used which is why I got a 3rd one for the kitchen. All used art different times of the day. I dont let them just sit and watch tv all day but at certain times its either tv for a bit or they play Xbox or ps4  once or twice a week. The xbox is in living room and Ps4 in my room. Usually being played at the same time. and of course the one in my roomI use late at night for myself for a bit before bed...Netflix

[Ias61489]

3 hours ago, preraph said:

When you do joint custody, there's no reason for either of you to get more money on top of that. You should both be responsible for paying your own bills and having a suitable place to live for you and your kid when it is there, and you split the education and medical expenses insurance and so forth. 

Depending on whether you live in a community property state or not determines how the belongings are split. But they will be split and then includes selling the house in many instances and whoever wanted to keep it would have to pay for that. 

 

Just because you haven't made as much money as her doesn't mean she's responsible for you after a divorce. The only consideration is for the children. 

I'm not saying she's responsible for me but the income difference is so great and I still have 3 kids to take care of. I cant do that on my income. It was fine before I had kids. I live in an equitable distribution state. Everything will be split but she running through it so there wont be be much if anything left. The lawyer I think im going to hire said they will give me a credit and make her pay be since she is using martial funds to pay for everything. 

In terms of child support, Lawyer said even if I signed something stating I dont want it no judge would put it through. She said someone always pays and its whoever has the kids more which the courts would base off many factors, Who makes more, Availability of the parent stuff like that and given she works i dont I could even be granted more then her which I'm not trying to get. Even with joint custody the person who makes more pays. 

I have one more lawyer I'm going to see before i make my choice and just gonna let them handle it. 

[Crazelnut]

Stop talking to your wife about this.  She is not going to be reasonable.  Suck it up & retain a lawyer to get what you are legally entitled to.  The longer you drag this out, the less money you will get. You're still just going around in circles.  YOUR MARRIAGE IS OVER.

And seriously, you're worried about a TV?  Holy crap, man, just give her a freaking TV.  Or better yet, GET A LAWYER and ask him/her.

[Ias61489]

2 hours ago, Crazelnut said:

Stop talking to your wife about this.  She is not going to be reasonable.  Suck it up & retain a lawyer to get what you are legally entitled to.  The longer you drag this out, the less money you will get. You're still just going around in circles.  YOUR MARRIAGE IS OVER.

And seriously, you're worried about a TV?  Holy crap, man, just give her a freaking TV.  Or better yet, GET A LAWYER and ask him/her.

I am sitting down with one more lawyer one Wed before I make a choice and not really worried about the tv I can always get another one but was just curious what other people take on it was that she asked me for one considering she knows why I picked up the new one for the kitchen. 

[Ias61489]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:40 AM, Mr. Lucky said:

Ias61489, if you're really interested in moving on, why not let her come in (into what I assume was the marital home) and look?  Why is this your line in the sand?

Tell her to come tomorrow night while you take the kids, go to a movie.  Get this out of the way and check off one more step towards getting her out of your life.

Continuing to engage in a back and forth on something so minor almost implies a need to stay in touch with her...

Mr. Lucky 

It wasn't really that it was a line in the sand it was the way she went about it. She got nasty from the beginning and demanded that I let her in that day.. Happened twice. I had told her to just give me some warning like a day or 2 and I wanna be here when she does it anyway. It Is the apartment we shared yes, she really doesn't have a while lot here because I lived here first and in terms of the stuff we got together she hasn't brought much of it up.

The first time she asked I was going to let her in but my daughter was very tired and grumpy and I know that once she saw her she would get upset since she does that alot about us. I have gotten some boxes and started packing things up and gonna do some more today. Have most of it done by the weekend which is when she asked to come in now. 

Th second time she asked was same thing shirt notice and I was tired and just didn't wanna deal with it,  she did start asking me for things like a tv, hairdryer etc etc. 

I have a feeling things will take an even nastier turn after Wed given that I will be picking a lawyer on the day.

[preraph]

She has just as much right to enter her apartment as you do since she lived there.  It's all unpleasant, yes, but obstructing her in little ways won't do anything but escalate the problems and nastiness.  

[SumGuy]

On 1/25/2020 at 3:30 PM, Ias61489 said:

How should I proceed here? What would you do? How do I not feel bad? Be gentle please....

Listen to your lawyer.  Her proposed parenting plan is clearly not in the best interest of the child.  Somehow I'm not surprised.   Her playing the mother card is also BS.  If you were the one home more and can be there more you are the primary care giver. 

It's hard not to feel bad, just know you are doing what is best for your daughter and sounds like everything you are after is fair and reasonable.

Of course she doesn't want to give you support, neither do men that make more, but it is not about what she wants.  The support is for the child so the child has roughly the same standard of living in both homes.

Your wife will make all sorts of emotional and social arguments and play on your sense of fairness and desire to be agreeable to get what is best for her, not what is reasonable or best for your child.   Even if you feel OK with taking far less than what is fair, at least have the legal obligation in writing.  You can always put the extra money in a 529, or just not go after her for it.

Looks like you are in NY so suspect the mid week switch is common there as well.   Frankly if she was a man, she'd be looking at Wednesday night dinner and every other weekend and support.   You don't want to drag your child through this but also don't give up what is reasonable and best here, ask your lawyer but the court is likely to shield your daughter from seeing any of this.

Lastly, listen to you r lawyer on tricks your ex can play.  If you feel even the slightest inkling she'll make false accusations (be honest with yourself, how far will she go to get her way) don't be alone with her, ever.  She can simply say you threatened her and even if eventually proved false she can cause a lot of heartache in the meantime and there are usually zero consequences for such false accusations, ask your lawyer.   But it will be a thing she can throw in to get child custody.  If it is legal in your state, some suggest recording all your interactions. 

[Ias61489]

20 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Listen to your lawyer.  Her proposed parenting plan is clearly not in the best interest of the child.  Somehow I'm not surprised.   Her playing the mother card is also BS.  If you were the one home more and can be there more you are the primary care giver. 

It's hard not to feel bad, just know you are doing what is best for your daughter and sounds like everything you are after is fair and reasonable.

Of course she doesn't want to give you support, neither do men that make more, but it is not about what she wants.  The support is for the child so the child has roughly the same standard of living in both homes.

Your wife will make all sorts of emotional and social arguments and play on your sense of fairness and desire to be agreeable to get what is best for her, not what is reasonable or best for your child.   Even if you feel OK with taking far less than what is fair, at least have the legal obligation in writing.  You can always put the extra money in a 529, or just not go after her for it.

Looks like you are in NY so suspect the mid week switch is common there as well.   Frankly if she was a man, she'd be looking at Wednesday night dinner and every other weekend and support.   You don't want to drag your child through this but also don't give up what is reasonable and best here, ask your lawyer but the court is likely to shield your daughter from seeing any of this.

Lastly, listen to you r lawyer on tricks your ex can play.  If you feel even the slightest inkling she'll make false accusations (be honest with yourself, how far will she go to get her way) don't be alone with her, ever.  She can simply say you threatened her and even if eventually proved false she can cause a lot of heartache in the meantime and there are usually zero consequences for such false accusations, ask your lawyer.   But it will be a thing she can throw in to get child custody.  If it is legal in your state, some suggest recording all your interactions. 

I have been careful about what I say and do since she left. Of course no conversation is perfect but I have ben recording what can. Everything in text I take screenshots of the day. I have quite a few of them now. Phone calls are a bit tougher but im working on it. My car has a dash camera so any conversation on bluetooth is recorded.

I have finally decided on a lawyer and the one I saw today is it. She is going to talk to her lawyer and see how she feels about the conflict of interest. She said he can be very fair and easy to work but if she is sticking to her guns then she will most likely ask him to recuse himself. She said he might choose to do it himself once she talks to him but there is harder people to deal with in the area. 

[PegNosePete]

30 minutes ago, Ias61489 said:

I have finally decided on a lawyer and the one I saw today is it. She is going to talk to her lawyer and see how she feels about the conflict of interest. She said he can be very fair and easy to work but if she is sticking to her guns then she will most likely ask him to recuse himself. She said he might choose to do it himself once she talks to him but there is harder people to deal with in the area. 

Look you need to stop being a doormat here, and start using your backbone.

How she feels about the conflict of interest??? Who cares how anyone feels? It's a violation of the law and you should do something concrete about that, not talk about "feelings".

You also need to stop talking to your wife about these things, the TVs etc. If your wife tries to talk to you about it, just say "talk to my lawyer".

 

[DKT3]

On 1/28/2020 at 9:58 AM, preraph said:

She has just as much right to enter her apartment as you do since she lived there.  It's all unpleasant, yes, but obstructing her in little ways won't do anything but escalate the problems and nastiness.  

"she left and said she's been unhappy for a long time said she doesn't want me anymore and she's not coming back."

No she doesn't have the right to come and go as she pleases in a home she abandoned. 

[preraph]

Well I imagine a lawyer will beg to differ.

[DKT3]

No they actually wouldn't,  which is why among the first things they advise is to stay in the home. Why is that?

[Ias61489]

3 hours ago, PegNosePete said:

Look you need to stop being a doormat here, and start using your backbone.

How she feels about the conflict of interest??? Who cares how anyone feels? It's a violation of the law and you should do something concrete about that, not talk about "feelings".

You also need to stop talking to your wife about these things, the TVs etc. If your wife tries to talk to you about it, just say "talk to my lawyer".

 

Let me clarify... My Lawyer said she is going to talk to my wifes lawyer about the conflict of interest. She said depending on what was said It might not make a difference having him recuse himself. 

She said he is not the worst to deal with but she Is going to talk to him about it and he may choose to do it on his own. She stated there is alot worse people that she could have gotten, all depends on how her talk with him goes. 

I forgot to ask about the TV and her coming in on sunday as requested to get things and of course me just packing her stuff up but I will be doing that tomorrow. I have a lawyer and the ball is rolling and im not just giving in.

[Ias61489]

3 hours ago, DKT3 said:

No they actually wouldn't,  which is why among the first things they advise is to stay in the home. Why is that?

I forgot to ask my lawyer today but Im gonna send an email and ask. I did post a question about it on avvo and had one response . This is what she said. 

Unless you have a court order or written stipulation giving you "exclusive occupancy" (which you can and probably should get under the circumstances), you wife still has a legal right to re-enter the former marital residence. That said, if you have already filed for divorce, the automatic orders that issue with your filing would prevent her from removing anything from the former marital residence without your consent or a court order. I suggest you get in touch with a local NY divorce attorney immediately to discuss all your rights, responsibilities and options so you can plan to avoid as much conflict as possible to obtain a satisfactory outcome from your divorce. Good luck!

 

So do I be an a** or just let her come get the stuff. In terms of packing up I think Im just gonna do that myself. Im gonna ask my lawyer if its ok first. Forgot to ask today. My wife asked me to come in sunday to pack up and then come on Feb. 8th to pick it all up.  My question for my exes gonna be who is coming to help because if she does have a new bf you can be damn sure I dont want him in my house. 

[schlumpy]

I think she has a right to get things like personal documents, diplomas, etc.... but I would not allow her to leave with any item I didn't look at. My thought is that she may have something hidden in the home that she doesn't want you to find and is trying to retrieve it. Maybe an old phone that you could possibly recover texting from that would place her in a bad light. Maybe letters or presents from her lover she doesn't want you to see. It could be anything. Don't allow her to take a handbag or purse when looking for her items. See if you can get a third party to help in case you need to leave the room.

It's your call.

 

[PegNosePete]

It's quite a complicated issue and if you ask a lawyer you will get an answer that tells you your and her legal rights. But that isn't necessarily what works in practice.

Yes a lawyer will probably tell you that since it is the marital residence, she has the right to come and go as she pleases. But in practice, if you change the locks, she will find it very difficult to realise that right. Since she has moved out, whilst she still has part ownership, it is no longer her home and you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Gaining entry would be difficult, it's unlikely that law enforcement would look kindly on her forcing entry especially if you're home at the time, and she might need a court order which is probably not worth the cost/hassle.

So yeah, if I were you this is what I'd do. Box up all her stuff, put it in the garage or somewhere she can collect it without entering the house. If she says she wants to come in and look around just say no. If she mentions anything that isn't in her boxes, just say you don't have it and all her stuff is in the boxes and it's not your problem any more. Don't bother wasting lawyer time on it, especially when they'll tell you an answer that is legally correct but not necessarily helpful in practice. I think this is what you were told on the other forum: you got told your legal rights, but that's not particularly helpful in practice. I certainly wouldn't bother with an exclusive occupancy document, or discussing your rights and responsibilities etc... just a waste of lawyer fees.

 

[Ias61489]

12 hours ago, schlumpy said:

I think she has a right to get things like personal documents, diplomas, etc.... but I would not allow her to leave with any item I didn't look at. My thought is that she may have something hidden in the home that she doesn't want you to find and is trying to retrieve it. Maybe an old phone that you could possibly recover texting from that would place her in a bad light. Maybe letters or presents from her lover she doesn't want you to see. It could be anything. Don't allow her to take a handbag or purse when looking for her items. See if you can get a third party to help in case you need to leave the room.

It's your call.

 

Yeah I'm not gonna let her just take anything she wants if its something that was bought by us or whatever the case may be. I pretty much know what is hers so just gonna get that stuff together. Already started. I think if there is any issues with something or we disagree im going to suggest we leave it be and involve it in our talks with the lawyers maybe.

[Ias61489]

6 hours ago, PegNosePete said:

It's quite a complicated issue and if you ask a lawyer you will get an answer that tells you your and her legal rights. But that isn't necessarily what works in practice.

Yes a lawyer will probably tell you that since it is the marital residence, she has the right to come and go as she pleases. But in practice, if you change the locks, she will find it very difficult to realise that right. Since she has moved out, whilst she still has part ownership, it is no longer her home and you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Gaining entry would be difficult, it's unlikely that law enforcement would look kindly on her forcing entry especially if you're home at the time, and she might need a court order which is probably not worth the cost/hassle.

So yeah, if I were you this is what I'd do. Box up all her stuff, put it in the garage or somewhere she can collect it without entering the house. If she says she wants to come in and look around just say no. If she mentions anything that isn't in her boxes, just say you don't have it and all her stuff is in the boxes and it's not your problem any more. Don't bother wasting lawyer time on it, especially when they'll tell you an answer that is legally correct but not necessarily helpful in practice. I think this is what you were told on the other forum: you got told your legal rights, but that's not particularly helpful in practice. I certainly wouldn't bother with an exclusive occupancy document, or discussing your rights and responsibilities etc... just a waste of lawyer fees.

 

The answer I got on avvo from the lawyer was most likely what my lawyer would say. I have coded locks on the doors and already changed the codes to it. I didn't want her just entering when she knew I wasn't here. Her name Isn't on the lease and she switched her mail awhile ago so she cant say she still lives here in terms of trying to get in and getting caught. 

Ive already started boxing things up and just gonna stick it in the shed. She will have to come in and get her dresser and clothes that are still in it. If there is anything else that she says she wants that I didn't pack up I will have the lawyers handle it... Right now trying to figure out what to do about the debt and assets. Not enough to cover everything. 

I still feel bad about the apartment she just got and the fact she doesn't see that she cant afford it plus that there will be a support order. Even my lawyer said she doesn't see how she thinks she can afford it because its to much $$ ah well.

[PegNosePete]

Well, that's her problem. You worry about you. And don't feel bad about it not being your problem, you've divorcing her remember, she has to put her big girl pants on and make these decisions all by herself now! I'm sure she isn't feeling bad about ANY of the things she says or does or her financial expectations or the way she is treating you...

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by PegNosePete

[Ias61489]

2 hours ago, PegNosePete said:

Well, that's her problem. You worry about you. And don't feel bad about it not being your problem, you've divorcing her remember, she has to put her big girl pants on and make these decisions all by herself now! I'm sure she isn't feeling bad about ANY of the things she says or does or her financial expectations or the way she is treating you...

 

Yeah I'm trying not to think about it because I have my own issues to worry about. Besides the workers comp crap right now I'm trying to figure out how to get a new car that can fit the 2 booster seats and one regular car seat and actually be able to get it with no money and not being able to get a loan at the moment. My credit is fine its the debt and income thats an issue...And as you said she doesn't care about any of that because when she demanded that I sell my car because it costs to much a month I explained to her I need half the savings account to buy one since I cant get a loan at the moment and she said no and its not her problem... So why should I care how much money she is gonna lose? She will still have the ability to save more then me plus I'm pretty sure she will be claiming the tax returns for the foreseeable future since I dont file a return under comp. Not like she's gonna split them with me. 

And I have tons of debt that she wont be able to pay me for either.

[Ias61489]

Heres a question. How does one handle tax returns and who claims the kids and such with joint custody. And just to make it more complicated how would it work or how would you handle it if one person doesn't file any taxes?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

3 minutes ago, Ias61489 said:

Heres a question. How does one handle tax returns and who claims the kids and such with joint custody. And just to make it more complicated how would it work or how would you handle it if one person doesn't file any taxes?

Some couples fight about it (one wants to claim both/all the kids).  My ex and I just share, although there have been years he's asked to claim them both.  Um, no.  He claims my daughter, I claim my son.  

As far as one not filing a return, I guess it's just something you'd have to work out and agree on together?  I really don't know....good question for your attorney.

[Ias61489]

6 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

Some couples fight about it (one wants to claim both/all the kids).  My ex and I just share, although there have been years he's asked to claim them both.  Um, no.  He claims my daughter, I claim my son.  

As far as one not filing a return, I guess it's just something you'd have to work out and agree on together?  I really don't know....good question for your attorney.

Yeah I def plan on asking. Considering my wife wants full custody and no support that would imply she wants the tax return aswell. That will add another 10k to her bank account every year, Meanwhile I left with thousands in debt she doesn't wanna pay for and currently cant.

[Ias61489]

My lawyer said she wants to get us all in a room and try figure this out otherwise its gonna be court if my wife sticks to her guns. I think we will end up in court.