Wife moved out

[Ias61489]

So looks like she filed for divorce on dec 19th. Got served the papers this morning. I may have texted her and called her a hypocrite and she said we can still do out of court If I agree to everything. The paper states she wants full custody and wants me to pay child support. I would be paying her $25 a month vs her $1,115 if it went to me. Life insurance and provide health insurance which makes no sense since we get it through her job. 

Says split the stuff in the house, Furniture stuff like that. When she moved here all she brought was dressers I had all the other stuff we just got newer ones ones over the years so im curious how that works.

 

[schlumpy]

While you concentrated on all the wrong things and got lost in detail, she went right to the source.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by schlumpy

[Ias61489]

5 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

While you concentrated on all the wrong things and got lost in detail, she went right to the source.

 

Cant blame a guy for wanting to work with his wife and try therapy and then mediation to keep it civil but in the end its not gonna be. I may not have cash but I have enough credit to get a good lawyer. 

[Ias61489]

So I have a question and not that I'm gonna try be this petty but Im gonna gather as much info as I can just in case it gets real nasty.. So the divorce summons says neither of us should transfer, encumber, assign, remove, withdraw or in any way dispose of without consent of the other party in writing or court order any personal property. There is s long list but in that list is bank account/cash accounts.

Also about no unreasonable debts (further encumbrancing any assets or unreasonably using credit cards)

Anyway would her taking around 3k or more towards renting an apartment be considered doing any of those things listed above? When she has a place to live I mean... Taking money out of savings to move into a new place when she has a place to live.

Also not that it matters but our credit cards that are used on a daily basis have shot up since her leaving. Last time I was able to check hers it was about even with mine BUT I pay all my household bills on mine, Utilities, food, cable, cell phone, storage unit, etc etc she pays no bills on hers and its just whatever she wants to buy/ food for kids/gas. We both bought Christmas gifts on them aswell. I did buy some clearance toys for my kids for next Christmas which is something I always do, A new small stand up freezer at about $145 open box since my deep freezer went out and I had a to buy a new stove. I got a $1400 stove for $500 so I consider that a win. 

Is that something worth mentioning to my lawyer when I find one? Idk what her card is at now but its either still around where it was since she has the cash to put on it or up a bit more like mine is.

[Ias61489]

And I should mention that when she left they were both almost at $0 and have a limit of 9k. Both are over half now.

[Rockdad]

Best money spent when getting a divorce is the best Lawyer you can find. Skimping on an Atty inevitably cost you a whole lot more at the end of the day. 

[Ias61489]

18 hours ago, Rockdad said:

Best money spent when getting a divorce is the best Lawyer you can find. Skimping on an Atty inevitably cost you a whole lot more at the end of the day. 

Yes im looking now but to me picking a lawyer is like picking a dr to perform surgery. Gotta make sure get the right one or mistakes happen and how the hell do you know you to the right one! 

I made an appt with a few but I gotta pay them for the consult. The women I kinda like but the appt isn't until the 29th. 6 days before the answer is due. Is that enough time?

Also I mentioned to them that the lawyer my wife hired i sat down with for a free consult (seems like a money grabber to me) but the last one the phone said we have to make sure to note that for the lawyer. Conflict of interest?

[PegNosePete]

On 1/17/2020 at 3:02 PM, Ias61489 said:

would her taking around 3k or more towards renting an apartment be considered doing any of those things listed above?

Yes definitely. Though I suspect this clause is just standard wording.

She may well be able to justify it if she needs somewhere to live, etc. But if she has taken $3k of money then it stands to reason that this $3k would come out of "her share" of the marital assets. So let's say the court eventually decides that a 50/50 split is appropriate (just an example, 50/50 split is actually quite rare), she would get 50% minus $3k.

Same goes for her credit cards, if she is piling up debt post-separation then that would usually be considered her own debt, not joint marital debt. It can be difficult to show that though, she may be able to justify the spending unless it's really excessive.

On 1/17/2020 at 3:02 PM, Ias61489 said:

Is that something worth mentioning to my lawyer when I find one? Idk what her card is at now but its either still around where it was since she has the cash to put on it or up a bit more like mine is.

YES. You should see a lawyer ASAP and you should mention everything to do with the finances. Many lawyers do a free initial consult and you should see at least 3 or 4. You can get a lot of free info in these consults, and it's definitely good to get a range of opinions. Try to stick to finance talk, not divorce procedural stuff which is fairly mundane and will waste your free time. Best approach is to prepare one A4 sheet with a summary of all the relevant finances on it: your respective incomes, property values, mortgage amounts, monthly outgoings, savings, debts, credit cards, pensions, insurances, everything. Just a summary, but include everything you can think of, to the best of your knowledge, and state how much of the debts/savings were accrued post-separation. If you go in prepared like this, the lawyer can get straight to business rather than asking you a lot of questions, and your free consult will be really valuable. Also don't be shy to ask the lawyer about his fees: what he expects them to be, how they can be paid, when they are due, can they come from your settlement? Lawyers are expensive, but not having one can cost you a LOT more in the long run.

On 1/18/2020 at 2:00 PM, Ias61489 said:

I made an appt with a few but I gotta pay them for the consult. The women I kinda like but the appt isn't until the 29th. 6 days before the answer is due. Is that enough time?

Don't worry about that too much, you can always complete this part yourself. It's the finances that are the important part so concentrate on that first. Many people don't answer by the due date, it will be easier and cheaper for her to accept a late answer than to start having you served etc. If I were you I'd see the lawyers, and then let your wife know that you've got the petition and will be sending the answer shortly. But don't worry too much about the due date.

On 1/18/2020 at 2:00 PM, Ias61489 said:

Also I mentioned to them that the lawyer my wife hired i sat down with for a free consult (seems like a money grabber to me) but the last one the phone said we have to make sure to note that for the lawyer. Conflict of interest?

I don't quite follow you here? Due to conflict of interest laws, a lawyer can't represent you if they have had a consult with your wife, even a free initial consult. And for the same reason they can't do a consult with you if they are representing your wife.

 

[Ias61489]

9 hours ago, PegNosePete said:

Yes definitely. Though I suspect this clause is just standard wording.

She may well be able to justify it if she needs somewhere to live, etc. But if she has taken $3k of money then it stands to reason that this $3k would come out of "her share" of the marital assets. So let's say the court eventually decides that a 50/50 split is appropriate (just an example, 50/50 split is actually quite rare), she would get 50% minus $3k.

Same goes for her credit cards, if she is piling up debt post-separation then that would usually be considered her own debt, not joint marital debt. It can be difficult to show that though, she may be able to justify the spending unless it's really excessive.

YES. You should see a lawyer ASAP and you should mention everything to do with the finances. Many lawyers do a free initial consult and you should see at least 3 or 4. You can get a lot of free info in these consults, and it's definitely good to get a range of opinions. Try to stick to finance talk, not divorce procedural stuff which is fairly mundane and will waste your free time. Best approach is to prepare one A4 sheet with a summary of all the relevant finances on it: your respective incomes, property values, mortgage amounts, monthly outgoings, savings, debts, credit cards, pensions, insurances, everything. Just a summary, but include everything you can think of, to the best of your knowledge, and state how much of the debts/savings were accrued post-separation. If you go in prepared like this, the lawyer can get straight to business rather than asking you a lot of questions, and your free consult will be really valuable. Also don't be shy to ask the lawyer about his fees: what he expects them to be, how they can be paid, when they are due, can they come from your settlement? Lawyers are expensive, but not having one can cost you a LOT more in the long run.

Don't worry about that too much, you can always complete this part yourself. It's the finances that are the important part so concentrate on that first. Many people don't answer by the due date, it will be easier and cheaper for her to accept a late answer than to start having you served etc. If I were you I'd see the lawyers, and then let your wife know that you've got the petition and will be sending the answer shortly. But don't worry too much about the due date.

I don't quite follow you here? Due to conflict of interest laws, a lawyer can't represent you if they have had a consult with your wife, even a free initial consult. And for the same reason they can't do a consult with you if they are representing your wife.

Yeah Idk how the savings will be split but honestly even with the tax return which will double the savings there isn't enough to cover the debts along with the 5k im sure she just gave her lawyer plus whatever else she has spent already. 

To me considering our everyday cards were about even the last time I was able to see it seems excessive to me. Mine has the majority of my bills on it she doesn't pay any on hers but I guess a judge will decide. I figure leave the everyday cards out if it and worry about the other cards and debt.

I am in the process of writing down all my debts and things to have ready. There is one debt that is a little more difficult to explain but Im going to ask my lawyer about it because when I mentioned it to my wife she got defensive and said I don't have any paperwork on it, (which I do, showing where it came from) just not a repayment schedule and signed agreement between who I'm paying back but I guess I will see what my lawyer says. 

Oh I told her I got the summons and called her a hypocrite since the night before she was saying she doesn't have lawyer and wants us to figure this out ourselves, then when I told her I got it said she just wants to get it done and over but we still can do it outside of court. I have been trying for months to talk to her about it but she never wanted to

I was considering calling the other lawyer at the same firm and seeing if she had any availability, both of them seem very highly recommended from my research and not alot of negative compared to some of the others ive seen.

The lawyer that my wife hired Is one that I sat down with In oct. I went to his office for a consult (free) gave him lots of information. So I had a free consult with him a few months ago and now she has hired him. Shouldn't he know that he shouldn't be doin that? He knows that she has all the savings and I never told him I would be paying on my credit card so maybe he assumes I wont be getting a lawyer and pointing out the conflict of interest. 

9 hours ago, PegNosePete said:

 

 

[Ias61489]

So she wanted to come in for a bin of papers to find her birth certificate to renew her license. I said as before that I would like more warning then just an hour. I told her I would get the bin and she can have it. I took out some things that pertained to me, Birth cert, kids adoption paperwork, Title to my car. She got pissed that I went through her "things". Said what she needed wasn't in there and I need to just let her in to find it and its illegal to deny her access to her stuff. 

 

I said a few days ago to just pick a day to get everything out including her dresser to which she responded oh yeah. So she's pissed at me because her birth certificate is not where she thought it was and her license is expiring which she would have had multiple warning about yet now its my fault. 

I gave her the bin and offered to look anywhere else tonight if she tells me where to look but says its non of my business and she will come in and get it. 

Im considering just packing up the stuff I know is hers now to make room and make it easier for her to get out since she said I cant expect her to get it packed and out in one day. 

Is that wrong of me? I'm sure it will piss her off. Is it illegal to not let her in at a moments notice just because she demands it? I'm not a storage unit. 

[schlumpy]

11 hours ago, Ias61489 said:

Is that wrong of me? I'm sure it will piss her off. Is it illegal to not let her in at a moments notice just because she demands it? I'm not a storage unit. 

What is wrong is that you are still holding out that she will change her mind if only she sees how calm and accepting you are. You are dooming yourself.

Get some friends and gather all of her stuff and take it down to a storage facility. Pay a couple of months rent and give her the keys.

Quit cooperating unless you have to . Pretend she died. Hold a mock funeral and burn the family portrait., Anything that will allow you to take that first step forward and leave her behind.

Nothing she says is to be believed. She will not make any decision now or in the future that has a wisp of thought concerning your welfare.

Your only job is accept that she is moving on and adapt to the new reality so that I don't see you at the highway off ramp with a sign that says, "Wife left me, Please help!"

Quit worrying about whether she is treating you like a storage unit and focus on actions that will improve your position. Please do it for yourself and your kids.

[Ias61489]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

What is wrong is that you are still holding out that she will change her mind if only she sees how calm and accepting you are. You are dooming yourself.

Get some friends and gather all of her stuff and take it down to a storage facility. Pay a couple of months rent and give her the keys.

Quit cooperating unless you have to . Pretend she died. Hold a mock funeral and burn the family portrait., Anything that will allow you to take that first step forward and leave her behind.

Nothing she says is to be believed. She will not make any decision now or in the future that has a wisp of thought concerning your welfare.

Your only job is accept that she is moving on and adapt to the new reality so that I don't see you at the highway off ramp with a sign that says, "Wife left me, Please help!"

Quit worrying about whether she is treating you like a storage unit and focus on actions that will improve your position. Please do it for yourself and your kids.

Oh Idc If it will piss her off I was just saying im sure it will. I dont care at this point. Im gonna pack up as much as I can soon and just put it in the shed. I did find her Birth cert last night but of course its not the official copy so she saying she still wants to come in and look but wont tell me where to look. I dont really see where it could be unless its tucked in somewhere. She doesn't even know. 

I dont have any friends really pushed them all away.. Ah well. The stuff she has here really isn't that much besides the dresser, Maybe 4 or 5 medium size boxes. 

I'm ready for a fight and see that she is gone beyond any repair. I can see it in her face that she is stressed out and she's been very agitated lately with everyone (even her mom said it that other day). Not my problem I'm gonna worry about myself and the kids. Think she's pissed that I didn't just accept what she told me to do because she hired a lawyer.

I spoke to a lawyer yesterday for 30 min and he explained some things and some concerns given that we used her moms address for the kids school and we lived outside that district. He gave alot of good info but I'm nervous about hiring him since he's a tad newer to the field compared to everyone else Ive spoken too. 

He said that lawyer Is shark and he's currently in a heated battle with him. Also that he likes to drag simple matters out and not respond to simple requests. Also said I have the right to have him recuse himself which Is advised and given what he said about him makes sense to do. 

[schlumpy]

43 minutes ago, Ias61489 said:

He said that lawyer Is shark and he's currently in a heated battle with him. Also that he likes to drag simple matters out and not respond to simple requests. Also said I have the right to have him recuse himself which Is advised and given what he said about him makes sense to do. 

If you can do that, then absolutely do it.

[Mr. Lucky]

1 hour ago, Ias61489 said:

I did find her Birth cert last night but of course its not the official copy so she saying she still wants to come in and look but wont tell me where to look.

Ias61489, if you're really interested in moving on, why not let her come in (into what I assume was the marital home) and look?  Why is this your line in the sand?

Tell her to come tomorrow night while you take the kids, go to a movie.  Get this out of the way and check off one more step towards getting her out of your life.

Continuing to engage in a back and forth on something so minor almost implies a need to stay in touch with her...

Mr. Lucky 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mr. Lucky
Clarity

[PegNosePete]

1 hour ago, Mr. Lucky said:

Tell her to come tomorrow night while you take the kids, go to a movie.  Get this out of the way and check off one more step towards getting her out of your life.

If you do this, make sure all your important stuff is safe, eg. ID documents, bank statements, etc. Or if it's just a couple of things she wants, make sure you're there, watching what she takes. Personally I'd put all her stuff in boxes, put it in the garage, tell her to come pick it up. Then you don't have to see her again. If she claims you've still got X or Y or Z then tell her you don't and hang up.

Definitely have her lawyer recused since there's a very clear conflict of interests here. She can't hire a lawyer who has previously advised you, even if only for a free consult and the lawyer is risking his bar by doing so.

See a few more lawyers. You would always get several quotes for a new conservatory, a new boiler or a new kitchen right? So make sure you get at least 3 from lawyers. A pitbull is not necessarily a good choice, they tend to run up high bills which is only justified if the outcome is significantly better. Experience is good but can turn into jaded. Youth brings passion and often lower rates, but that's no good if your outcome is worse. Go with the one you think will get you the best outcome, after deducting fees.

 

[Ias61489]

She decided to wait to get her stuff.... I think she is moving in her new place on the 1st so that is why. I did sit with a lawyer on thursday but forgot to ask about packing the stuff up, If there was anything she can do against me If I did so but I'm gonna just do it anyway. Bought boxes the other day. Just waiting until the weekend when my kids are gone. 

So I have a moral dilemma since I'm in a very confused state lately. After sitting with the lawyer I reached out to my wife and asked her where does she realistically stand on things. I am or was still willing to just sit with her and try figure out an amount of support that would work for both of us. Or if she was willing to go to mediation with me still. She said its a waste of time to go if I will not agree to no support. 

She said because she is in the school district that we send them to It makes sense for her to have them more (mind you she works full time I do not).The lawyer I spoke with says we can be joint and set one as the address for school.

"My lawyer said there is no reason to pay child support when I have the kids more". Right now I consider it split and I was trying to change it because I see no reason to bring my daughter back over to her house at 6pm just to pick her back up at 645am. I get she wants to spend time with her but so do I and I think that's an unnecessary back and forth and she now says she wants to keep them from sat night until Wed after school. I would still have to pick up my daughter every morning monday thru wed at 645 and bring her back over at 6pm monody and tuesday night. 

She said its sad I fighting with her on it and has said the stuff about she should have them more because she is their mother and birthed them. Also said It just makes sense that whoever they are with at the time is the one who pays for stuff at that time. I dont think she's wrong but I make 12k on comp she makes 50k... Which not to sound like a **** but she wouldn't have that job if I wasn't in her life. 

Ok enough rambling back to my dilemma. I am going into more debt every second I breath and since she has stopped giving me anything Its getting worse. Every lawyer I spoke to (including hers) said Its not gonna work out the way she thinks it is even If I signed something It wouldn't getting past a judge. I know she just got an apartment and ITs at least $1400 which she can't afford anyway but I know once any child support comes into play S*** will hit the fan with her. And as she's stated which I think is BS that there wont be much left of the savings account by the time we are done considering all the stuff she has to get for her apartment and she's been paying down her debt (along with lawyers, apartment deposits/Rent). I want to get something from her but how do you I do it with out feeling bad and causing more issues. She wont discuss the tax return with me said she was gonna ask her lawyer first.

How should I proceed here? What would you do? How do I not feel bad? Be gentle please....

[preraph]

You don't do joint custody by splitting up each day.  You get her 3 and a half consecutive days, and your wife gets them the other three and a half consecutive days.  It's usually set so each of you gets one weekend day, so the trade off is done midweek, midday, Wednesday.  Don't agree to daily tradeoffs.  Exhausting and bad for everyone.

[Ias61489]

37 minutes ago, preraph said:

You don't do joint custody by splitting up each day.  You get her 3 and a half consecutive days, and your wife gets them the other three and a half consecutive days.  It's usually set so each of you gets one weekend day, so the trade off is done midweek, midday, Wednesday.  Don't agree to daily tradeoffs.  Exhausting and bad for everyone.

Yeah I'm tired of it I can say that. I didn't clarify with her actually about if she wants to keep them over wed night or maybe she is just considering the days. The lawyer I spoke with said the courts look at nights not days. 

So by what she is saying She would have Sat night thru Wed and I would take them Wed night thru Saturday evening. So splitting it would be I drop them off Sunday morning or afternoon and then I would take them back after school on Wed no? She's purposely trying to get them more so she can say she has them more. She says its not about money... 

I still have to get my daughter in the morning bring her to school and keep her until 6pm unless her mom is off of work of course then in the summer I have all 3 of them.. When she was mad one day she said she would send them to summer camp on the days she had all three... Not sure where she thinks the money is coming from. We made the choice to skip it last summer because it was was alot off $$$. I think she over estimates how much her take home pay really is. The one camp closest to us is $1325 for 2 weeks with small discounts for siblings. There was another one that was cheaper but Idk how much. 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Ias61489
Mistype

[preraph]

That's the correct schedule.  That way, you both have to deal with getting them to school during the week and you both get a weekend day.  Sat-Wed and Wed-Sunday.  She can drive to one exchange and you can drive to the other.  If you're living far apart, you can ask the judge to meet in the middle, but this can be problematic (so can the dropoffs) because what if one person is late, then both are inconveniences.  But if someone is consistently off schedule, it's back to the judge.  So one pickup at school and only one at someone's home. 

[Ias61489]

22 minutes ago, preraph said:

That's the correct schedule.  That way, you both have to deal with getting them to school during the week and you both get a weekend day.  Sat-Wed and Wed-Sunday.  She can drive to one exchange and you can drive to the other.  If you're living far apart, you can ask the judge to meet in the middle, but this can be problematic (so can the dropoffs) because what if one person is late, then both are inconveniences.  But if someone is consistently off schedule, it's back to the judge.  So one pickup at school and only one at someone's home. 

Seems fine to me and we live within 10 min of each other so non of that should an issue. The issue I see is she wont agree to joint where everything is split down the middle because then she would have to pay me.. According to the lawyer I say she said judges look at who has more nights with them and based on what my wife laid out she would have 4 nights and I would have 3. As of right now it goes back and forth depending on the week and what her day off is. I dont like the lack and forth and I would agree to her taking them sunday thru wed or even sat thru wed but there has to be some give on support somewhere. 

Again not trying to make it sound like its all about money but I do need something. I dont make alot. And in fact I forgot it went down as of yesterday. It should be temporary once I go back and fight but for now it has. Workers comp is fun. 

[Ias61489]

Ok would like some opinions. My apartment is small 2 bedroom. The kitchen i downstairs and the living area/bedroom upstairs. 
We have 2 tvs. One in the living room and one in my bedroom. Prior to her leaving when I would go and cook they would stay upstairs with her or maybe one would come with me. They get crazy sometimes all together. 

So I picked up a cheap tv for christmas for the kids for the kitchen since bring them down with me now. If I leave them upstairs to whatever they are doing it ends in a wrestling match. So downstairs I have a tv, Legos, coloring supplies for now all on the table.

My wife knows about the new tv of course and today she asked me for one of them. She knows why I have 3 now and she has one but she is asking me for one of them. I told her Ill think it over. I do feel its a bit messed up considering she knows why I got the 3rd one. Maybe Its not messed up Idk

Any thoughts or opinions?

[Ias61489]

Should I just give her one and get another myself?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

19 hours ago, Ias61489 said:

 How do I not feel bad? Be gentle please....

You can't.  When money becomes an issue, everyone who thinks they are gonna have an amicable divorce learn real fast that's not the case.  I've seen it over and over with my friends.  And myself.  She can bully and bully and bully you until you cave (like I did), but I do not recommend that.  You both are entitled to 50/50 custody.  Period.  If that means she has to pay child support, it is what it is.  You didn't make the laws.  If she wants to change the law, let her take it up with a state representative!   

Keep the TV.  You bought it for a good reason.  If you must, I guess you could give her the one in your bedroom.  Do you use it a lot?  

[preraph]

When you do joint custody, there's no reason for either of you to get more money on top of that. You should both be responsible for paying your own bills and having a suitable place to live for you and your kid when it is there, and you split the education and medical expenses insurance and so forth. 

Depending on whether you live in a community property state or not determines how the belongings are split. But they will be split and then includes selling the house in many instances and whoever wanted to keep it would have to pay for that. 

 

Just because you haven't made as much money as her doesn't mean she's responsible for you after a divorce. The only consideration is for the children. 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

19 minutes ago, preraph said:

Just because you haven't made as much money as her doesn't mean she's responsible for you after a divorce. The only consideration is for the children. 

She's not responsible for him, but the quality of life of the children.  In the case of such extreme income disparity as this (although neither are wealthy), child support comes into play even in even custody arrangements so that the kids ARE able to spend time equally with both parents.  I mean, it's not fair to the kids to say "well, mom doesn't make enough money to be able to spend time with you, oh well, I get you all the time!"  Nor is it fair to make kids live in squalor at one parent's house but lives like royalty at the other parent's house.  Why would they ever want to visit the "poor" parent (even if they are a loving parent)?