Further thoughts on why people can’t just say no if they’re not interested

[preraph]

No, I didn’t say I confront them about their reason for not wanting to go out with me, I said I confront them about ghosting me. You do realise that’s not the same issue?

 

You need to start reading my posts properly before you try to argue with them.

 

You need to read mine.

 

You already know why! I just explained it to you! Why would they want to have an all out argument with you, someone they don't know or care about and aren't attracted to or like, for ANY reason? They ghosted you because they don't see any reason to hurt your feelings with the brutal truth or have any obligation to get into an argument with someone they have no interest in.

 

Ghosting means "No."

[crispytoast]

OP the thing is, you are acting like you are entitled to their time or interest. You aren't. Everything after, the accusations, the frustration, even coming here to try to make a point about it, none of it is self-serving. It's all an ego trip. You are trying to repair your damaged ego by getting some sort of reaction (an apology, or a confession, for some transgression that may be completely imagined). It's clearly not working so why do you keep doing it? If they weren't avoiding you before, they certainly are now.

[Art_Critic]

perhaps because of bad experiences of guys blowing up at them

 

When I was doing OLD the number of women that told me about some of the rude nasty things men would say to them when they said they weren't a match it shocked me..

 

The rejected guys is the reason timmyboy.. who wants to be called names because they tell some guy she isn't feeling it ?

 

I never felt the women who ghosted was a big deal.. IMO, their loss..

 

You need to change the way you look at things.

Edited October 6, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
corrected spelling

[Twizzlestick]

OP for you own sanity maybe try a sea change. You can’t go around administering tellings off to people. It’s bad mind fuel. It just fills you with negative waves.

 

People don’t owe you anything at dating level. You can’t go around telling folk off for ghosting you. That’s the key. They don’t owe you nowt.

 

So, positive waves on! Be more devil may care. If someone ghosts or goes cold. Stuff em. You wouldn’t catch Donald Campbell (bluebird!) persueing such weak sauce offerings (I’m reading his biography). No, he’d be onto the next one one Move on. I bet once you start with that mindset you see better results. It happens, I don’t know how but it does. People sniff out this stuff like dogs.

[elaine567]

When someone flakes and is not trying to make genuine attempts to say sorry and amend, then you pass.

Ghosting? Just let them go. Yes they may have been murdered or been involved in a horrendous accident or been kidnapped... but the likelihood they are no longer interested in you, so you do not bombard their phone with messages or keep calling or corner them into another date, which they will again fail to turn up for, and you DON'T try to tell them off for disrespecting you. That is just madness...

You maintain your dignity, forget them immediately and you move on to the next...

[Saracena]

hey insisted that they were being straight with me. If these girls wanted me to take the hint, why did they deny that this was what they were doing? Why not just back out when I gave them the chance? Why did they go out of their way to persuade me NOT to take the hint if that was what they wanted?

 

You're making this far more complicated than you need to. You see, from their point of view, when you failed to 'take the hint' the first time (which they would have expected you to) and you persisted with the texts and phone calls, then they'd have to admit that their earlier excuses for bottling out were just that and essentially they were lying! To convince you even further they weren't, they even agreed to another date! Saving face. End of.

 

As Elaine said above, when this sort of thing happens again (and it will, sorry) don't bother contacting them. Maybe one call, but that should be it. No way, for instance, if someone stood me up (absolutely awful behaviour) would I even consider calling them. It should be solely up to them to contact you, apologize, re-schedule etc

[ChatroomHero]

They have been called out when they said no not interested, that is why people ghost or avoid. A lot of sore souls out there when they get told no. Dealing with guys after telling them is a horrible experience.

 

I think the distinction is this is not in person and over text and the women in these cases are given several opportunities to gracefully bow out. But instead of bowing out, they up the level of supposed interest..."I'm sooo sorry! I will drop everything from my schedule Friday and 100% show up...because i cancelled on you, I'll pay for the date...I don't want you to think I am blowing you off at all, I hate people that do that. If I wasn't interested, I would absolutely tell you. I would never lead someone on, I have no problems being straight up if I was not interested..." then poof!

 

So I don't think you can chalk these type of situations to bad rejection experiences in the past, but more likely waning interest. Like on Monday you think, "I like her. She is attractive. Seems Nice. I'm looking forward to the date". On Friday, "Eh, she maybe isn't my type and I am not totally head over heels. I am not looking forward to the date very much, I've already kind of lost interest"...or else you have other options that you like better, but don't necessarily dislike the person.

 

The interest can kind of ebb and flow especially with multi-dating, so that's probably why an outright rejection doesn't happen. Low interest on the other party's end will always be frustrating and confusing. That's why you don't put any stock into anyone until after 3-4 good dates when you actually can see if the interest level in person.

[LauraXX]

I think technically it doesn't even qualify as ghosting. You exchanged numbers with those women, but you didn't go on a single date with them. So they're complete strangers who changed their mind about going out with you. Standing somebody up is definitely not cool (you probably dodged a bullet there) and coming up with lame excuses isn't either. But don't forget that they're strangers who don't owe you anything and they were probably just hoping that you'd get the hint the first time around. Being confronted by a complete stranger about why you "ghosted" them would be sooo awkward. It's like confronting a potential employer about why they didn't invite you for a job interview and didn't call you back as promised. It's obviously because they found somebody better for the job, but you're almost forcing them to say nice things about you, because they don't have the time and the energy to have a long awkward conversation with you about why they didn't like you.

 

 

 

I'm on Tinder and usually chat to several people at the same time. Sometimes the conversations just fade out. Sometimes they lead to a date. But I wouldn't confront a stranger who stops replying to me about why he ghosted me. When you don't feel like replying, you just... don't. It would be so awkward to write to a stranger: "You know what, I'm not going to reply to your messages from now on because you have that annoying habit of missspelling the word XYZ".

 

 

 

It's a bit different after a date I think. I think that would be the right time to tell somebody: "Thanks for the date, but I don't think there's going to be a 2nd one."

[salparadise]

It's hypersensitive and keeping you in a state where you color what is happening in your dating life or what might happen with a certain focus and less of a clean slate. I'm definitely not saying what they were doing is right ("mugged" is about the craziest excuse I've ever heard for not showing up for a date; i mean points for creativity!) but what you can do is keep it moving.

 

 

First, what they're doing is indeed wrong. If they agree to meet they should show up, and if on the rare occasion they change their mind for good reason they should own it and not feed him a line of bulls*t. It is extremely hurtful to treat people as if they aren't worth the dirt on the bottom of your shoe. When guys ask a woman out they're opening themselves up, being vulnerable, assuming a risk that the typical woman is never willing to take. Rejection by someone you've opened yourself up to, admitted to liking or being attracted to is painful. Egos and self-esteem are not made of hardened steel.

 

I think this is largely the result of the swipe-dating culture. Women end up with an overblown sense of entitlement when nine out of ten pics they swipe right on is a match –– and then the guy is supposed to make all the effort, have extremely witty banter and game, and he's still expendable if a better match pops up, or he fails to entertain like a professional comedian. Hit the unmatch button and he's gone as gone can be. That attitude can't help but bleed over into real life interactions. They get a twinge of anxiety before they're supposed to meet up as agreed, and suddenly it's no longer just a swipe game on the phone. They still don't think of him as a real person –– just a pic, and they don't want to invest any actual intention in their little game. They feel entitled to blow people off and make up some bullsh*t, and probably wish they could get by without even that much effort. It's sad.

 

OP, what most people are telling you is correct though... you have to learn to not let it bother you because you can't change them. You have to realize that when you keep on engaging after they've ghosted or stood you up that you're giving them your dignity. Don't do that. If the communication and follow through isn't solid, you blow them off first and don't give them a chance to squeeze your fragile parts through the strainer. Stay above it, and focus on finding one good one who doesn't have an entitlement mentality. Don't give the hot princesses any space in your head; the chances of them being kind, empathetic, and reciprocal are low-low. It's game to them. The only way you can win is to play it better than them, and that's damn nigh impossible because it isn't a level field.

 

Look for integrity above all else.

Edited October 6, 2019 by salparadise

[crispytoast]

Women end up with an overblown sense of entitlement when nine out of ten pics they swipe right on is a match –– and then the guy is supposed to make all the effort, have extremely witty banter and game, and he's still expendable if a better match pops up, or he fails to entertain like a professional comedian.

 

I think a big problem for a lot of men is putting too much thought and effort into it. A lot of women aren't looking for their next serious relationship through dating apps and a guy acting overly excited or attached before even meeting is a huge red flag. I'm moderately attractive at best and I've pulled Tinder women with eggplant and champagne emojis, and cat GIFs.

[thefooloftheyear]

I didn't read the whole thread, and don't claim to be any expert, but if someone isn't making themselves easy to contact, then consider it a lack of interest...

 

Also.knowing women its difficult to be in the position of having to knock a guys dick in.. You have no way of knowing what type of guy you are dealing with...Id imagine most are afraid of the potential of a creep or stalker.....pr worse...So they just do the slow fade and hope you just "go away" without any drama...

 

TFY

[snowboy91]

I understand where you're coming from. People (this applies to both guys and girls) don't want to go out of their way to hurt others if they can avoid it, and certainly want to avoid confrontation. So it's emotionally a lot easier to ghost rather than outright say "no thanks".

 

That doesn't make it OK though. Still, if someone is willing to use those excuses, then it says something about them as a person. Not everyone in the world is going to behave in line with your sense of ethics. Let it go, and trust that the right person is still out there.

[some_username1]

You're making this far more complicated than you need to. You see, from their point of view, when you failed to 'take the hint' the first time (which they would have expected you to) and you persisted with the texts and phone calls, then they'd have to admit that their earlier excuses for bottling out were just that and essentially they were lying! To convince you even further they weren't, they even agreed to another date! Saving face. End of.

 

As Elaine said above, when this sort of thing happens again (and it will, sorry) don't bother contacting them. Maybe one call, but that should be it. No way, for instance, if someone stood me up (absolutely awful behaviour) would I even consider calling them. It should be solely up to them to contact you, apologize, re-schedule etc

 

Yeah OP should make it easy on the poor little dears and their childish games by letting them get away with their lies.

 

*sigh*, there is no right and wrong answer here but it is depressing how, instead of their behaviour being roundly ridiculed it seems the pressure is on the OP to shoulder the burden of *their* bad behaviour. The whole reason women act like this is precisely because they know they will face no accountability for their actions so they can stand men up with impunity and men are told to defer to the softer sex. What a wheeze for the women, no wonder the latest trend is asking guys on dating apps to get food delivered to their doors- they have been totally let off the leash.

 

I recall the one time I went out of my way to take a girl on a date that I had agreed with her, I was out of town 3 hours away and raced back only to get a text message saying she couldn’t be bothered to get dressed up so was staying in and vegetating on the sofa. I was fuming and gave her a piece of my mind about the disrespectful manner in which she cancelled. To be fair to her, she replied and owned it, apologising and admitting that reading that her message again she realised how awful it was. Not much consolation but I was pleased that I had taken a stand and held a mirror up to her behaviour. Maybe, just maybe she learned a lesson and might have some pride in herself the next time she changes her mind on a date?

 

I try to take more of an ambivalent attitude these days as I want to believe that indifference is the strongest reaction you can give to crappy online dating behaviour but I don’t think the women on OLD (especially the younger ones) are intelligent enough to understand the value of indifference. I really don’t think indifference makes them question their behaviour in the same way as being called out for it and and thus they never have to think about how their behaviour in standing someone up affects others (not to mention making them jaded which makes OLD worse for everyone else). Just think if we let crime go unpunished, would people naturally learn their behaviour was wrong from their own powers of introspection? Pfffft.

[Trail Blazer]

*sigh*, there is no right and wrong answer here...

I totally agree with your post.

 

My view is that a lot of women treat Tinder like a game. You know, it's "fun" to swipe on a "cute guy" and then maybe see if he's interested in me. Guy wants a date, girl feels validation and her self-esteem is maintained. Then when the time comes to actually putting in the effort, they realize, "I don't like him that much after all, he just filled a need at the time" or something to that effect.

 

When women who are even moderately good looking have most of the male dating world swiping right, their entitlement in inflated well beyond what's commensurate with what they actually offer themselves. Dating apps wildly inflate the SMV of women, and reduce a man's SMV ten fold. It's little wonder why many men get frustrated with OLD.

 

I think OLD is a toxic environment a lot of the time and it brings out some of the worst behavior in both sexes. In the case of OP, he didn't even generate one of his potential dates from OLD. However, the culture of expandability that OLD has helped cultivate, seems to premeate through to dating interactions which have been generated organically (the "old school" way).

 

My advice to OP: Roll with the punches, my friend. Don't let it get you down. I know it sucks. I've been stood up a few times. Thankfully I haven't had any complete no-shows, but I've been on the end of a few last minute cancellations with some very lame excuses before ultimately being ghosted/unmatched. It says a lot more about them, and that ultimately they aren't the right person. I quickly move on while assuring myself that it's their loss, not mine.

[Gretchen12]

If you are correct that they pretended to be interested, I don't know why they would. Certainly many people do not do that. A female friend would often text me with kissy emojis and saying she can't wait to see me, when do i have time for her, etc. And then when i say, ok how about this week, she's always fully booked. So yeah I don't know why some people are like that.

 

As for dating, there were times when the guy "accused" me of not wanting to see him, saying something like " if you don't want to continue, just say so". When I hear that, i always respond with "ok i don't want to continue". In all of the cases I still wanted to see the guy (if I didn't, I would have made it known), but i lose interest when the guy predicts being rejected, so I go along and end it.

[crispytoast]

As for dating, there were times when the guy "accused" me of not wanting to see him, saying something like " if you don't want to continue, just say so". When I hear that, i always respond with "ok i don't want to continue". In all of the cases I still wanted to see the guy (if I didn't, I would have made it known), but i lose interest when the guy predicts being rejected, so I go along and end it.

Yep this thank you.

[basil67]

The thing is, I feel like I shouldn’t have to ignore it. There should be consequences if someone does something rude or disrespectful.

 

Consequences come naturally....most often in the form of Karma. You don't need to dole consequences out unless you're a parent or teacher.

[Twizzlestick]

Mentioned above that pressure in OP to shoulder the blame. Certainly from my posts I’ve suggested he shrugs it off, not to shoulder the blame but for his own benefit. Otherwise you’re letting them get to you more than they have to.

 

I don’t personally buy any of the myriad excuses for girls “ghosting”. I actually think it’s the same when men ghost - it’s a combo of lack of balls and also has been mentioned, the disposable attitude people have before they meet.

[TimmyBoy]

You need to read mine.

 

You already know why! I just explained it to you! Why would they want to have an all out argument with you, someone they don't know or care about and aren't attracted to or like, for ANY reason? They ghosted you because they don't see any reason to hurt your feelings with the brutal truth or have any obligation to get into an argument with someone they have no interest in.

 

Ghosting means "No."

 

You’re not listening.

 

I’m not asking you why they ghost me. I understand the rationale behind it and I said this from my very first post onwards.

 

I never said anything about getting into an argument with them.

 

I asked why they insist they WEREN’T ghosting. You haven’t answered that question.

[TimmyBoy]

What I don't understand is why after they flake the first time with you, you ask them out again only to get flaked AGAIN. Why not move on to someone else who might be more interested. Also maybe you should lower your standards if this ghosting/flaking is a repeated thing.

 

Because sometimes unexpected problems really do come up and, like I’ve said about five times, when I said something like “ok, well I would rather you had just told me you weren’t interested” they INSIST they that were telling the truth and beg and plead for me to believe them. Sometimes they even get angry with me, “how dare you call me a liar” etc. So when they do it the first time I sometimes give them the benefit of the doubt and reschedule.

[TimmyBoy]

OP for you own sanity maybe try a sea change. You can’t go around administering tellings off to people. It’s bad mind fuel. It just fills you with negative waves.

 

People don’t owe you anything at dating level. You can’t go around telling folk off for ghosting you. That’s the key. They don’t owe you nowt.

 

So, positive waves on! Be more devil may care. If someone ghosts or goes cold. Stuff em. You wouldn’t catch Donald Campbell (bluebird!) persueing such weak sauce offerings (I’m reading his biography). No, he’d be onto the next one one Move on. I bet once you start with that mindset you see better results. It happens, I don’t know how but it does. People sniff out this stuff like dogs.

 

People owe each other common courtesy. We all do. It’s not ok to treat someone badly just because you don’t know them that well.

[basil67]

I asked why they insist they WEREN’T ghosting. You haven’t answered that question.

 

I can answer this: By the time you've gotten to the stage of having them desperately trying to defend their words, you've backed them up against a wall. They have figured out that you're aggressive and want to de-escalate without having to give any further ammo to you in terms of arguing against her reasons for not being interested.

[Twizzlestick]

Hey OP. Don’t mean to wade into others online differences of views, Preraph is trying to help. Why not just draw a line under that misunderstanding between you

 

I sense you’re getting caught up so much in the “whys” of these people. It’ll largely remain a mystery. Hell there’s so much in my dating past that has left me scratching my head. People do all sorts. There’s no profit in ruminating and getting het up.

 

Are you quite a black and white thinker? As in right vs wrong? The principle of these matters seem very important to you, so important it’s causing you to be drawn into situations long after it’s good for you. Maybe this tenacious principled side is coming through prior to the dates? Dates like fun and laughter, not surliness.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Twizzlestick

[Twizzlestick]

People owe each other common courtesy. We all do. It’s not ok to treat someone badly just because you don’t know them that well.

 

Ok. So in difference to my suggestion that you can’t do much about it so whays the point in going round in circles - your answer is to persue and admonish these people? Why? What are you achieving? How is this going for you? Badly, I’d say.

 

It’s doubtful having useful impact on “moderating” such bad behaviour - if that’s your aim; they likely just think “thank goodness I didn’t date that person”. And for you, it’s winding you up such that you’re now tainted regarding dating and posting on a forum to vent.

[TimmyBoy]

You're making this far more complicated than you need to. You see, from their point of view, when you failed to 'take the hint' the first time (which they would have expected you to) and you persisted with the texts and phone calls, then they'd have to admit that their earlier excuses for bottling out were just that and essentially they were lying! To convince you even further they weren't, they even agreed to another date! Saving face. End of.

 

As Elaine said above, when this sort of thing happens again (and it will, sorry) don't bother contacting them. Maybe one call, but that should be it. No way, for instance, if someone stood me up (absolutely awful behaviour) would I even consider calling them. It should be solely up to them to contact you, apologize, re-schedule etc

 

I’m not making it complicated, I just have to keep re-explaining this because people aren’t paying attention.

 

I’m not talking about situations where I failed to take the hint. I’m talking about situations when I DID take the hint. I DON’T persist with texts and phone calls.

 

It goes like this.

 

1. I ask her out.

 

2. She says yes.

 

3. She either flakes or doesn’t turn up.

 

4. I realise what’s happened and I say something like “for the record, I think it was bad form of you to lead me on like this. I went all the way to the restaurant and you didn’t even show up. It was really embarrassing and I was looking forward to seeing you. I really would have preferred it if you had just told me you weren’t interested. But I get that you are not interested and I won’t keep pestering. All the best.”

 

See, nothing aggressive or threatening there. I have politely expressed my displeasure whilst also confirming that I got the message and I won’t be pestering them for further dates. So surely, if their aim was for me to get the hint, I’ve got the hint and they can just leave it there.

 

But what actually happens is that they say “OMG please believe me” or “how dare you call me a liar”. So, based on that assurance, I reschedule with them, then they do it again.

 

My question is - why didn’t they just leave it after I already took the hint the first time? Didn’t they WANT me to read between the lies and realise they were lying? Wasn’t that the whole point?