Further thoughts on why people can’t just say no if they’re not interested

[TimmyBoy]

I can answer this: By the time you've gotten to the stage of having them desperately trying to defend their words, you've backed them up against a wall. They have figured out that you're aggressive and want to de-escalate without having to give any further ammo to you in terms of arguing against her reasons for not being interested.

 

Saying I’ve taken the hint is not “aggressive”. I don’t yell at them or verbally abuse them. I explain that it’s bad form but reassure them that I won’t waste their time anymore. Then I delete their number and all messages. They are not “backed into a corner” in any way. I’m not standing over them holding a crowbar.

[TimmyBoy]

I sense you’re getting caught up so much in the “whys” of these people. It’ll largely remain a mystery. Hell there’s so much in my dating past that has left me scratching my head. People do all sorts. There’s no profit in ruminating and getting het up.

 

Are you quite a black and white thinker? As in right vs wrong? The principle of these matters seem very important to you, so important it’s causing you to be drawn into situations long after it’s good for you. Maybe this tenacious principled side is coming through prior to the dates? Dates like fun and laughter, not surliness.

What basis do you have for assuming it comes through prior to dates?

 

Just because there are some things that annoy me doesn’t mean I’m constantly annoyed.

Edited October 7, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[basil67]

Wouldn't it be more simple to not send that text and simply not have to deal with them ever again?

 

And if you really must send it, then more fool you for giving them another chance. The odds of an absolute last minute emergency AND no phone to let you know that she couldn't arrive are so low that it's not worth considering.

[Robert]

*** Moderators Note ***

 

Let's all play nice, no fighting or taking pokes, that includes all the posters and thread starter.

 

Thanks

[stillafool]

 

I asked why they insist they WEREN’T ghosting. You haven’t answered that question.

 

Because people lie. Simple as that. Women especially, don't like to admit to bad behavior.

[basil67]

I explain that it’s bad form but reassure them that I won’t waste their time anymore. They are not “backed into a corner” in any way. I’m not standing over them holding a crowbar.

 

The 'backing them into a corner' is figurative.

 

I'm not talking about the first text you sent after the date, I'm talking about where you are pushing for answers about why they insist they weren't ghosting. This is where you're getting aggressive.

[TimmyBoy]

The 'backing them into a corner' is figurative.

 

I'm not talking about the first text you sent after the date, I'm talking about where you are pushing for answers about why they insist they weren't ghosting. This is where you're getting aggressive.

 

I don’t push them for answers about why they insist they weren’t ghosting. I never said that I did. I am asking you why they do that.

[TimmyBoy]

Because people lie. Simple as that. Women especially, don't like to admit to bad behavior.

 

I kind of agree with this, but then I wonder why they would see it as “bad” behaviour that they shouldn’t “admit to” if they believed they were justified in doing it. Isn’t the rationale that it’s OK for women to do this because they are scared of men losing their rag?

[elaine567]

Women especially, don't like to admit to bad behavior.

 

.. and men do?

Men flake, tell lies, ghost and fade just as much, but no-one I guess suggests a woman should be calling them out on their bad behaviour...

How dare she?

Men have always been allowed to act badly and women in general have just been expected to put up with it...

 

Now women have a modicum of power over some aspects of dating, they need "telling off" by a man acting like her father...

[ChatroomHero]

I don’t push them for answers about why they insist they weren’t ghosting. I never said that I did. I am asking you why they do that.

 

 

 

While I think there is a certain amount of satisfaction and even justification of letting the other person know that you are disappointed that they didn't 'man-up' and be straightforward about their interest, very possibly leading you on...it doesn't server a ton of purpose.

 

 

It may come across as aggressive or like you are ticked off, no matter how you write the text. While I don't think it's wrong or a horrible thing to do, I don't think it's worth it. You'll never get a true apology with the truth if she is truly ghosting, you'll get more BS responses to lessen her guilt and make you feel guilty because maybe her crazy reasons for ghosting might be true. You likely won't get a true answer and she is not going to feel bad about someone she has low interest in, calling her out. The most you'll get is she'll briefly think, he was a nice guy and I feel kinda bad. Then 3 seconds later she'll be thinking about what she wants for dinner.

 

 

I just don't think letting someone you pretty much know you are never really going to date know that you are disappointed gets you anywhere and does anything positive. It's not really going to impact them other than if you get too critical they feel justified for ghosting you retroactively. It's best to move on. Don't invest in someone early on. If they flake once, check out. If they come back and want to meet again and you are ok with it, go ahead. If they flake again move on. No need to call them out, just move on.

[preraph]

You’re not listening.

 

I’m not asking you why they ghost me. I understand the rationale behind it and I said this from my very first post onwards.

 

I never said anything about getting into an argument with them.

 

I asked why they insist they WEREN’T ghosting. You haven’t answered that question.

 

Yes, I have. You're the one not listening. You need to stop acting like a combative aggressor to people you don't even know. You are one of these guys who can't take "no" for an answer, which is not a good thing and will get you in trouble one day. Ghosting = No.

[smackie9]

Because when I let them know that I would rather they had just said they weren’t interested they insist that they were telling the truth. Why do that? I got the message so what’s the problem?

All you are going to start is arguments. They will feel more right about what they are doing because you go after them. It just enables the behavior.

[Versacehottie]

Mentioned above that pressure in OP to shoulder the blame. Certainly from my posts I’ve suggested he shrugs it off, not to shoulder the blame but for his own benefit. Otherwise you’re letting them get to you more than they have to.

 

I don’t personally buy any of the myriad excuses for girls “ghosting”. I actually think it’s the same when men ghost - it’s a combo of lack of balls and also has been mentioned, the disposable attitude people have before they meet.

 

Well written post. Hopefully i've understood it correctly and totally agree: the issue not about "placing blame" as that still does nothing to solve the OP's problem.

[Miss Spider]

Well because people like to have options. If they totally cut the cord with you, they can’t come back later when they’re bored and out of other options and be like “hey, how’ve you been?” Yea it’s selfish and not cool, but people inherently put their self interest first, so you need to do the same and cut it off yourself because they can only use you for back up if you tolerate the behavior

[preraph]

All you are going to start is arguments. They will feel more right about what they are doing because you go after them. It just enables the behavior.

 

It actually makes the behavior necessary. Because it doesn't take more than a sentence or two to see how combative and hostile TimmyBoy is, and that's why they're clearing out as quietly as possible.

[crispytoast]

Ironically he's getting combative and hostile in trying to tell us how he isn't combative and hostile.

[preraph]

Yeah, that's the overriding impression you get of him, and it doesn't take them long to pick up on it because it's so obvious and up front.

[Versacehottie]

Dating is an optional thing to do and supposed to be fun. It's not an obligation and people generally rebel against one turning something they are not obligated to into a "must". Therefore there are many different interpretations and perspectives in dating and people can justify their behavior:

 

You call them out for standing you up or not letting you know they no longer intend to date you and believing it is justified is really not that much different from them deciding they no longer are interested in dating you. It's perspective and each person's option. Have you ever considered the fact that not everything is black/white, right/wrong and that what you input, i.e. on your profile and in every action up to the date and from then on, has bearing on if someone will 'go through with it'. The more you accept that relationships of all sorts (including here on this thread) are fluid things and turn and change for good, better and bad and worse AND that people's intentions don't stay fixed that they gather information along the way, the better you will be able to tailor your own journey.

 

I think as someone said, you have shown on this thread alone that you have black and white thinking and are on the obstinate side, which generally turns people off. I think you are mistaken that the thinking and bias in your head doesn't permeate your interactions with others. Dating is supposed to be fun and freeing and certainly start that way. You should try to lower your expectations. Just saying. Good luck as always

[kendahke]

The thing is, I feel like I shouldn’t have to ignore it. There should be consequences if someone does something rude or disrespectful.

 

Consequences like what? She should be beaten to death or something? Exactly what punishment and who metes it out?

 

The consequences are you block them and stop trippin' off of strangers. Control the behavior you can control: your own.

[kendahke]

People owe each other common courtesy. We all do. It’s not ok to treat someone badly just because you don’t know them that well.

 

You can find your answer in how you address people here who aren't buttressing what you're saying or not giving you the validation you want.

 

I'd say if you want common courtesy, you need to traffic in it first, and from reading through this thread, it's clear that that's not your jam.

 

Just because you spent time building an artificial construct around someone/something that you wished they'd be for you doesn't mean they're obliged to move in and occupy that construct. They aren't the ones who built the fantasy structure in the first place.

[preraph]

Your behavior in being combative about being rejected is much worse than their behavior in deciding they are not interested after all and therefore not acting on it after seeing how combative you are. You're creating your own problem. You are the worse offender.

[Mr.Me]

I feel like most of you ganged up on the OP. I feel like all he's really asking is why do the women he seems to chat with, along with the many others that complain of the same behavior, tend to lie instead of using words that are are still nice but better communicate the point.

 

 

I live in a big city of 3 million, a city where people in general have little regard for another human being and for the most part, people don't respect each other. Most everything is technology driven in this culture.

I also live in a small town, a farm, where everyone knows each other and treats each other with dignity. They respect each other immensely. Almost know one uses the internet for much. It's too far out for good cell reception and it's too far out of most internet ISP's to run Fiber Optics.

 

Example:

The other person could say

"I'm sorry but I changed my mind and don't think I'm really all that interested after all."

OR

"I know I said yes, and I meant it at the time but now I'm realizing that I shouldn't have."

OR

"To be honest, I just don't feel like it right now. I appreciate the offer though"

 

I can easily come up with 100 more ways to say I've changed my mind without being a A-hole about it.

It's moral and respectful in my house to let someone know that something has changed and you apologize for the inconvenience of not keeping your word.

 

Ghosting, lying, no call no shows, etc are all symptoms of a bigger picture and I think that is the internet has created a buffer where two people can communicate without fear of repercussions of being self centered, selfish, elitist asshats.

[Versacehottie]

If we are talking about a vent where the OP is looking for some sympathy, of course, I don't think people "should" be rude or inconsiderate. The reality is they can be. OP can take the suggestions and thought processes stated here to dial his expectations back so he will not be as bitter or discouraged and possibly/more likely to lead himself to the right person for him....OR he can get really stuck in the "shoulds" and let himself block himself. That's what I think is happening.

 

If he cares more about being right, than solving his gf dilemma, he is getting exactly what he has bargained for. Don't mean to be harsh but it's also impossible to separate the events that have happened to the OP from his approach to life, these women and his thought process. There is a correlation for sure.

[Gretchen12]

I feel like all he's really asking is why do the women he seems to chat with, along with the many others that complain of the same behavior, tend to lie instead of using words that are are still nice but better communicate the point.

 

I think the OP not saying this^^. The OP can correct me. I thought he kept trying to explain the problem is not the ghosting and white lies.

 

In the two examples he gave, he does not understand why those women went out of their way to convince him they're still so keen.

 

In the following responses to "just say it if you don't want to see me", I understand A and B but not C (what the OP says he encountered).

 

A. yeah, I don't think it'll work out.

B. actually, I wasn't ghosting you.

C. oh my god! how can you think that?! I was soooo looking forward to see you! Please! You gotta believe me! I'm soooo sorry about what happened before. Please give me another chance!

 

He wasn't asking why B. He was asking why C. My guess is either they are afraid, or they really want to see him, or they're first year drama students.

[Versacehottie]

well i think the reason is the same as we are experiencing on this thread: people don't like to be confronted. Sometimes people don't like to face that their poor behavior is less than stellar or not the values they hold for themselves or mean to convey. This would apply to both the OP's dates and him himself.