I Thought I Was A Success Story...

[Orianne]

So, in 2010, my then fiancé broke up with me three times. The longest breakup lasted four months and involved cheating on his part. His words to me at the time of the breakup were, “I love you, but I’m not in love with you,” and, “You’re boring and no fun.” During that last breakup, I worked on myself, and we were able to work through our issues and ended up married less than four months after getting back together.

 

Nine years and three kids later, he tells me he wants a divorce. He says he likes me, but doesn’t love me, that I’m a chore to hang out with, and that I deserve better. This seems very similar to what he told me during our previous breakup, though I have no reason to suspect another woman this time.

 

I knew something was bothering him for a while, but I was pretty blindsided by all of this. My husband has combat related PTSD, and I’ve long assumed his funk was related to his military experience. Our marriage hit a rough patch after he experienced a triggering event (a car crash) and I was hoping that over time, he’d be able to return to himself. Divorce didn’t even cross my mind.

 

My future ex husband does have a friend that lives next door to him that advocated for us to get divorced. I’m not sure how significant this guy’s influence is, but it irks me more than anything, and now that I’m not at the house, the friend is there all the time. If there was anything that bothered me about my marriage, it would be this friend—my husband would often head straight to this guy’s house as soon a I got home, and not return until it was time to put kids to bed. I am certain their relationship is platonic in nature, but to me it always felt like an emotional affair.

 

In all our previous breakups, my husband never discussed what problems he thought we were having until the breakup, but he was clearly talking to his friend about them, instead of telling me.

 

However, at this point I don’t know that I can even pinpoint what the issues are. He’s said everything from me not losing baby weight, to me telling him that I didn’t want to go to Mars if the option was available. I’m not kidding here—he said if we worked on the marriage, he’d just have to break my heart anyways when he went to Mars.

 

It’s only been a month, and we are currently separated. My husband has been the stay home parent for about six years, so I was the one to move out. We are actually on pretty good speaking terms, and are in the process of filing legal separation as opposed to divorce, but he is still adamant he wants a divorce.

 

We can’t really do no contact, because we have kids, so I am trying a method called smart contact instead. I’m still working on myself, and am proceeding as though we are getting divorced. I have a house under contract right, and will be very busy once I get my keys.

 

The fact that my husband and I are on good terms give me hope that he’ll reconsider. I don’t have a lot of interaction with him, but when we do, he makes good eye contact, shares laughter, and it’s just positive overall. We actually seem to be communicating a lot better now that he’s let it out that he wants divorced, but I’m not sure where that leaves me or if I’m reading too much into things. At this point, he’s not interested in marriage counseling.

 

Anyways, this is getting pretty long, but I’d any insight or tips. I’m wanting to reconcile, but the thought of doing it a fourth time is a bit overwhelming.

[schlumpy]

I don't think Mars is an option. Half the spacecraft sent to Ares home planet have crashed, burned up in the atmosphere or simply flown right by. No, not a good plan at all.

 

What kind of adventure is he talking about? I don't see visiting his best friend as high adventure unless they are planning to hang glide, sky dive or cliff diving. If it's just changing the environment for awhile then that's easily accomplished. There are more places to visit and wonders to see then you or I have time or money for.

 

I assume he is talking about adventure that you can't or won't participate in and maybe the children play a part in that.

 

You are playing the right card except that you are missing the righteous anger you should be feeling and that anger should be cutting his legs out from underneath him. Play hard ball because hoping his attitude will change isn't going to work. He has to feel what his life will be like without you in it.

 

Put aside your feelings and show him how it will be.

[ExpatInItaly]

He's feeling relieved that he's finally pulled the plug on a marriage he no longer wanted. That's probably why you're sensing his lighter mood. It hurts, I realize, but his current levity is likely related to the fact that he doesn't need to put on a front anymore.

 

I think your best bet is keep the focus on the kids and healthy co-parenting. This marriage has come to an end, and when you're healed, you will probably feel a lot better for it, too.

[Orianne]

He's feeling relieved that he's finally pulled the plug on a marriage he no longer wanted. That's probably why you're sensing his lighter mood. It hurts, I realize, but his current levity is likely related to the fact that he doesn't need to put on a front anymore.

 

I think your best bet is keep the focus on the kids and healthy co-parenting. This marriage has come to an end, and when you're healed, you will probably feel a lot better for it, too.

 

There aren’t many cases where the dumper doesn’t feel relief. This is exactly how he behaved on our previous breakup, so I don’t put much weight it reading his actions either way.

 

Right now, our finances are still pretty mingled, but once the legal separation goes through, he’s going to be on food stamps. (He did not request spousal support.) He gets a small disability check from the VA for income. It’s less than the amount he needs to pay for rent and will be even less once he tells the system he’s single. I know he’s underrated for PTSD disability, but he can’t get more money from the VA as he refuses to seek treatment.

 

He did originally agree to go to marriage counseling, but he made it seem like it would come at the expense of PTSD treatment. I wanted him to get treatment for PTSD more than I wanted to make him go to marriage counseling, so I dropped it. A few days later, he admitted to calling the veteran’s crisis line to seek help, but still hasn’t actually gotten in to see anyone at the VA.

 

This PTSD thing is a significant contribution to what’s going on. This breakup came on almost the exact anniversary date of the previous breakup, and is also the anniversary of an event that happened to him in Iraq.

 

I have serious concerns that it’s not just about getting divorced. My husband is doing a lot of things to make me believe he’s on the path to self-destruction. He does have a small nest egg of inheritance money, and he’s blowing through it at lightening speed, on stupid stuff. For example he just spent $20k on a bulldozer and immediately shipped to my parents’ house (for another $1000) without even using it himself. Then after that, he paid cash for a 2017 Jeep Wrangler. As far as I can tell, that’s another $30k. And it’s for a vehicle that only has two doors and doesn’t haul three kids in car seats very well. He also hauled his other tractor (another $20k machine) to my parents’ house. This was approximately two weeks prior to him asking for divorce.

 

So he’s spending all his money, cutting all his ties. I can only assume he feels the need to be a homeless veteran or dead. It freaks me out. I at least convinced him to go the legal separation route so he can stay on my health insurance for a bit.

[preraph]

i think it's wise for you to NOT remarry him or reconcile and cancel the divorce if for no other reason, for financial reasons. If you want to reconcile and NOT be married, then fine, but he isn't showing good judgment in any way.

 

I will say that there is no "cure" for PTSD. There are some new inroads that may develop and some research. I had noncombat PTSD (not as debilitating) and did get over it, but most people don't. And it took me 10 years. Some research a couple years back said it takes a minimum of 9 years in their research to see some improvement. But really, there's just basic therapy to deal with the other things like depression and manage all that comes with PTSD. At this time, there is nothing to just treat it and make it go away. Mine went away specifically because I read my old diaries and remembered who I was all those years and tapped back into that strength and then started trying to make new memories to overwrite the rutted in old ones that played like a tape loop in my head 24/7.

 

Don't worry about the guy next door. He is just your husband's escape and who he unloads on.

 

I tell you, disregarding all the other stuff like his PTSD, I just wouldn't ever reconcile with a man who broke up because he was critical of shallow things about you. I mean, that reflects more on HIM than it reflects on you, so I don't know why you're standing for it. That's all about sex being his priority and him not feeling it with you -- and again, that reflects more on HIM than you. Not your fault he is limited in what he can get it up for. He has massive problems and you have normal problems we all get as we become mothers and age a bit. And maybe him finding a hard body 20 year old would make him feel better for 10 minutes in bed, but it's by no means going to cure his ills -- that is just wishful thinking on his part, and he's misplacing his anger at his own self onto you.

 

I think you ought to let him go and keep a civil relationship but always keep your own place and get on with your life without all these problems he brings. He's not even trying to fix himself. I have no patience with that.

[Marc878]

Your biggest mistake was ignoring the signs upfront. I wouldn't compound that by doing it again.

[Orianne]

Well... I had a major meltdown at my house today. I told him I didn’t want to see him or the kids until I could get myself sorted out. I don’t want the kids to see me cry. He talked to me on the phone for quite a bit after I left, to try and give me some support to get through this.

 

He says I can call any time, but sometimes I wish he’d just be mean. I’ve gotten so many mixed signals from him I don’t know what to believe. The only consistent thing he’s done during the time I’ve known him is to change his mind.

[schlumpy]

What do you want to happen?

 

If you just want to vent, I'll listen. Want everything to go back to the way it was? I can't help you there but I will try if that is what you desire.

 

Why is he staying at the house? He asks for the divorce and you leave? Who owns the house? If you own it sell it out from under him.

 

Paying his cell phone bill? Stop doing it.

 

Is he signing his equipment over (bull dozer) to his parents so you have no claim on it during the divorce?

 

What else is he doing to prepare the way and make it as easy for himself as possible?

 

It could be that he tries to be extra nice to you so that you keep hoping and not doing anything to put a snag in his plans.

 

When you finally come out of your grief you may find yourself at a huge disadvantage.

 

I suggest you protect yourself immediately by seeing an attorney.

[Orianne]

He has now agreed to attend marriage counseling, but I don’t know how to find one or what to look for. I’ve made some calls to some local places, but haven’t had any calls returned.

 

I don’t have high hopes for this, but it can’t hurt. He says he tried everything to make our marriage work, and I pointed out that we didn’t seek counseling.

 

His only requirement is that we still file legal separation, which I am fine with. Personally, I think that if he was 100% confident he wanted a divorce, we’d be getting a divorce and not be messing around with legal separation.

[Orianne]

What do you want to happen?

 

If you just want to vent, I'll listen. Want everything to go back to the way it was? I can't help you there but I will try if that is what you desire.

 

Why is he staying at the house? He asks for the divorce and you leave? Who owns the house? If you own it sell it out from under him.

 

Paying his cell phone bill? Stop doing it.

 

Is he signing his equipment over (bull dozer) to his parents so you have no claim on it during the divorce?

 

What else is he doing to prepare the way and make it as easy for himself as possible?

 

It could be that he tries to be extra nice to you so that you keep hoping and not doing anything to put a snag in his plans.

 

When you finally come out of your grief you may find yourself at a huge disadvantage.

 

I suggest you protect yourself immediately by seeing an attorney.

 

Well, he sent the bulldozer to my parents house—not his. My parents have his tractor and trailer too.

 

All of our bills are already separated. The only thing I’m still paying is insurance on vehicles still in my name, and the first $500 of the mortgage. He pays me the remaining difference, and has already signed legal separation paperwork for this. I moved out because I’m the breadwinner and he can’t afford to move. He was looking for a place once he told me his intentions, but the closest thing he could find in his price range was over an hour away. Since he’s the primary caretaker for the children, I didn’t want to disrupt their lives like that and offered to move out instead.

 

He’s now agreed to try marriage counseling, so I don’t think he’s entirely out the door yet.

[SpecialJ]

The fact you've written several times about how every time he ends things with you, you work on yourself until he takes you back is concerning to read. I'm not sure if you met him before or after his combat-related PTSD, but I'm almost willing to bet that he had other issues prior to that and his inability to work on himself as well -- and instead deflect and blame others for his insecurities -- goes back to before his service. And you're actually enabling his patterns, which gives him less motivation to confront his own issues.

 

You don't deserve to be insulted and blamed. Usually when people accuse you of things like being boring, they're projecting. It's possible in his case he's bored by civilian life after combat and that's why he's imploding right now, but again, it's hard for me to advise exactly because I don't know the timetable.

 

Him saying couples counseling is at the expense of PTSD therapy is a manipulative excuse. He didn't want to do it, and though he says he does now, he may not stick with it. And honestly, I'm not sure how much it would help even if he did. I think it will help eventually, but right now he does need a good individual therapist who has good experience and training in both PTSD and in attachment issues. And it would be really great for you if you don't also already attend therapy in your attempts to work on yourself to start individual therapy as well. I know you love this man and are concerned about him for real reasons and want to keep your family together... but your lack of anger all this time, when he's cheated, been condescending, left you multiple times, withheld communication about real issues he has in the relationship, belittled you, and is now being careless with his money when you two have three children... it sounds codependent.

 

Is it possible for you to co-parent and take time apart during the separation to get a couple months of individual therapy before you come back together to add marriage counseling to that? I don't think his issues are about you. They're about him and he's not taking responsibility. And if I'm wrong and it's strictly the PTSD, that still a lot of pain and healing he needs to confront outside of your marriage before he can be present again.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. Please don't take on his half of the issues as well just because he's trying to blame you. I also agree with the poster above who is wary of you just sticking with the marriage -- it sounds like you need to put the children first in terms of the financial situation, and a separation of assets for the time being may be the best way to do that.

 

I hope things turn around for you, even if that does end up involving walking away.

[Orianne]

The fact you've written several times about how every time he ends things with you, you work on yourself until he takes you back is concerning to read. I'm not sure if you met him before or after his combat-related PTSD, but I'm almost willing to bet that he had other issues prior to that and his inability to work on himself as well -- and instead deflect and blame others for his insecurities -- goes back to before his service. And you're actually enabling his patterns, which gives him less motivation to confront his own issues

 

We haven’t had any breakups since 2010–before we were married. He did take me back several times, but it was all over a six month period, and I would only consider one of those breakups to have been a genuine split. The other woman he was “cheating” with lived thousands of miles away, so there wasn’t much of a relationship between them. At the time, I was very angry about what happened, but this is something that we worked very hard to move past. I only mentioned it because it was fairly similar to the current split and happened at the same time of year—almost the exact same day, and within days of the anniversary of a triggering event.

 

Given our history, I always knew that there was a possibility that he would do this again, and I had promised myself that if he ever did, I would walk away. However, having kids has made it complicated, especially when I think there’s a mental health issue at play.

 

I met him after he left active duty. I knew he had PTSD before I ever dated him, but he did not get an official diagnosis until 2012. He was in Iraq several times from 2003–2007, and we met in 2008. He did call a veteran’s crisis line after he asked for divorce, and is starting treatment this week. We’re not going to do marriage counseling for right now, and maybe not ever.

 

We have already separated all our assets and are on the verge of filing legal separation which is effective immediately and can be converted to divorce in six months. He has very limited income, and it’s difficult to watch him spend it all on vanity items while struggling to pay bills. I am seeing a therapist and she alerted me about suicide red flags...like spending all his money. I don’t think he’s suicidal at the point, but I’m being vigilant.

 

In any case, in the weeks since my last update, it’s gotten fairly obvious that whatever my husband was so unhappy about hasn’t gone away now that I’ve left. From what I can tell, he’s spending a lot of time doing nothing—just sits in the living room watching YouTube. He does exercise, but he’s eating junk (boxes of donuts), his house is now a train wreck, and he started using a lot of marijuana. (It’s legal in our area.) He was doing a lot of edibles this past spring, and he tried telling me during our divorce talk that he did weed to cope with the marriage, and that he didn’t want to live like that anymore. He actually quit around the start of summer (before asking for divorce) and that’s when he really got depressed. But now he’s smoking it...and he’s smoking a lot.

 

Luckily, things are still friendly between us, and our communication has improved tremendously. I’m also 100% confident that he does have feelings towards me, despite him saying otherwise. Even the kids have picked up on this, which has made for some awkward exchanges. I’m certain he still wants a divorce, but I think me agreeing to it has caused him to drop some of his defenses. He said he was expecting me to get a lawyer and make things as ugly as possible.

 

I’m not sure where this leaves us as far as our relationship goes, but I feel like we’re in a better position than a lot of other couples that ultimately reconcile, especially with open lines of communication, and no third parties.

Edited November 1, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[mark clemson]

Orianne, from everything you've written he's lucky to have you and a fool to let you go. But sometimes people just "do what they've gotta do" for whatever inscrutable mental health reasons.

 

Since you still want him back, hope he comes to his senses and comes back to you (assuming you still want him) before the excessive marijuana smoking turns him into basically an overgrown teen.

[preraph]

Doesn't sound like his love runs very deep if he's griping about baby weight. I hope you can just not let this whole thing erode your self-worth. He doesn't sound like any bargain.

[MountainGirl111]

Orianne: I really like your name, girl!

 

Okay...the title of this thread: "I thought I was a success". I'm going to challenge you in a positive way on that one. Tell yourself: "I am a success." or "I am successful". See, from what little I know about you, based on what you've shared here...I would call you successful in many things. He's been dragging you down and making you doubt yourself. Don't let him do that anymore. He wants to sit around all day and smoke pot while you raise the kids and bring home the money...this is just so unfair to you and your kids. But, you don't need to be co-dependent, you really don't. Time to assert your needs, girl.

[Orianne]

Well, he finally told me he slept with someone else about three years ago—it was shortly after the car wreck I mentioned in the first post. The only detail he gave was that she was a lot bigger than me. I thought that was interesting.

 

I’m not really sure how to feel about this, and honestly, he seems far more upset about it than me. He keeps saying it’s unforgivable and that he’s a horrible person. He ended up crying, gave me a hug, said he really cared about me, and that he didn’t want to hurt me anymore. Later that same day, he was back to telling me that he didn’t love me and that he was so much happier without me. I’m not sure what to think about this either.

 

The very next day, we were talking again, and I told him that many marriages recover from infidelity and that our problems could be worked out now that we were actually talking about them. Then it got interesting—he said he was considering not converting our legal separation into a divorce. I’m not sure where he was going with this, because I interrupted him to ask what we would do if I got a boyfriend. (Because I really don’t want to be in limbo forever.) He said we could then get divorced, but that there was no rush to file any paperwork.

 

I’m not sure what to make of this. On day one, he printed all the divorce paperwork from online and was ready to see a mediator ASAP. But now suddenly there’s no timeline?? He has his own insurance and feels like he will never run out of money, so I have a hard time thinking he wants to stay married for legal reasons.

 

I’m still on the fence about the entire situation. His PTSD is faaaar worse than what I’ve posted here. Right after his car crash in 2016, a member of his old army unit told him some really dark stuff about their time in Iraq. He hasn’t been the same since. He’s called the veteran’s crisis line several times since I moved out, and had one therapy appointment through the VA. That therapist immediately referred him to a specialist and would not see him again. He’s very serious about following up on this, so I see that as a good sign.

 

In any case, I think divorce is on the back burner, at least for now.

[preraph]

If you end up needing to live apart, do divorce, though. So now he's getting high on top of having PTSD, which I do not understand at all. It would make your imagination just run wild. Bad idea.

 

All I can tell you is at least he's willing to either divorce or not divorce. So it's kind of up to you. Did you ever find counseling, though? He should be in counseling if only because of his PTSD. You need a marriage counselor, but he needs to be in VA counseling for PTSD.

[Orianne]

If you end up needing to live apart, do divorce, though. So now he's getting high on top of having PTSD, which I do not understand at all. It would make your imagination just run wild. Bad idea.

 

All I can tell you is at least he's willing to either divorce or not divorce. So it's kind of up to you. Did you ever find counseling, though? He should be in counseling if only because of his PTSD. You need a marriage counselor, but he needs to be in VA counseling for PTSD.

 

He was assigned a therapist through the VA, but that therapist wouldn’t see him for a second visit. He’s waiting on a referral. I’ve been seeing a therapist through my employer, but we haven’t tried pursuing marriage marriage counseling. I found a few counselors that had availabilities about six weeks out, but I never followed up because it’s apparent that his PTSD is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed.

 

We are already separated, and have been since mid-September. I’ve bought a house since then. He was really serious about divorce at first, but I’m not sure now. Basically, he sprung divorce on me, we separated within that same week, and now he seems to have backpedaled. I’m willing to wait in limbo for a bit, but not forever.

 

As far as our actual relationship goes, I think things are getting better, but there’s been zero intimacy, and he still says he doesn’t love me. I kind of think he just says that though—his actions don’t match his words. I don’t necessarily think he’s “in love” with me, but he definitely has more feelings than he claims.

[unlisted]

Wow.. this post makes me sad

 

OP, I feel bad for you that you're the one who gets hurt but take all the blame and go on to work on yourself. Does he work on himself while you guys are broken up? And why are you the one moving out when you did nothing wrong??? It also sounds like you've been letting him decide everything.. he wants to break up, he wants to get back together, he wants a divorce, no, separation, and you simply go along with all of it. What do you want? I know you want a happy and healthy marriage but it doesn't sound like he can give you that. I know he's the father of your children and he has PTSD but sometimes you have to think what's best for you and your children and some things you have no control over and not everything is always your fault.

[Orianne]

Wow.. this post makes me sad

 

OP, I feel bad for you that you're the one who gets hurt but take all the blame and go on to work on yourself. Does he work on himself while you guys are broken up? And why are you the one moving out when you did nothing wrong??? It also sounds like you've been letting him decide everything.. he wants to break up, he wants to get back together, he wants a divorce, no, separation, and you simply go along with all of it. What do you want? I know you want a happy and healthy marriage but it doesn't sound like he can give you that. I know he's the father of your children and he has PTSD but sometimes you have to think what's best for you and your children and some things you have no control over and not everything is always your fault.

 

Our gender roles are reversed. I work full time, and he’s been a stay-home dad for six years. (He has his own income and insurance through the VA.) If I stayed and he moved out, we would have needed to do something drastic and/or expensive with childcare. (I was quoted ~ $1500/month for three kids for childcare. )

 

I don’t really think I’ve been letting him decide much—he wanted a divorce on day one. I was trying to get a mortgage, and asked him for a legal separation instead (the lender advised it) and he agreed. The plan was to convert the separation agreement to a divorce after the wait period was over. I did all the paperwork myself (gave myself a sweet deal) and he signed it all. I had the paperwork reviewed at the courthouse, but the facilitator said some stuff needed to be changed.

 

In the meantime, my loan funded before we filed. I asked him if we should just file divorce, and he said he wanted to, but did not want to waste time starting all over with the legal review. (We Needed a review because we didn’t use lawyers.) I was working on getting the paperwork amended when I learned he cheated.

 

So we had a big argument, lots of tears, hugs, and apologies, and he admitted that he thought the problem with our marriage was mostly him. After some more discussion, I told him I was willing to forgive, and that many marriages recover from full affairs. That’s when he said he was considering remaining legally separated and not converting to a divorce. I told him I would convert it if he didn’t, and he said that was fine. But then he said there was no timeline to submit our paperwork. This really confused me, because he was in a big hurry to file, and now suddenly there’s no timeline???

 

I thought maybe he was backpedaling in the heat of the moment, so I waited a few weeks to ask him about what the plan was. He’s now firmly in the legal separation camp, but is making little movement on that. I sent him a bunch of revised paperwork at least a month ago, and he hasn’t even looked at it. I told him this, and he said he would check it out, but almost a week later, he’s still sitting on it.

 

He has been working on himself, but he’s been having a heck of a time getting reliable treatment through the VA. This is his number one priority, and the only reason I’m trying to salvage my marriage. If he wasn’t trying to get treated, we’d probably be almost divorced by now.